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Micah Ong

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  1. You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth. This was released when I was a teenage boy, and I fondly remember the picture on page 93. The woman was so beautiful that I could clearly understand the temptation that the angels must have felt whilst looking down upon the earth. What I did not know at the time was that this woman was a real person, Pascale Petit, who appeared in Playboy November 1963 and some raunchy movies, such as the European sex comedy Frau Wirtin hat auch einen Grafen. The inclusion of this picture in the Live Forever book was a potential copyright infringement, as the image of Pascale Petit was taken directly from the cover of the 13th August 1961 German magazine Stern. In the article "Winning the Battle for Your Mind," Watchtower 2017 July page 28 includes a quote regarding propaganda: "Therefore, it is likely to be most effective if people ... are discouraged from thinking critically." What has been cut out and replaced by ellipses (...)? "Therefore, it is likely to be most effective if people do not have access to multiple sources of information and if they are discouraged from thinking critically. Michael Balfour has suggested that the "best touchstone for distinguishing propaganda from science is whether a plurality of sources of information and of interpretations is being discouraged or fostered. " Media and Society In the 21st Century: A Historical Introduction p.78 or Media and Society In the 21st Century: A Historical Introduction 2009 p.83 depending on edition, Lyn Gorman, David McLean Watchtower's misuse of ellipses is very important when considered in light of the Watchtower article, which says to trust a single source of information, follow the organisation regardless of how imperfect and dismiss alternative information regardless of how plausible. "... you—like any other soldier in the heat of battle—need a source of trustworthy, reliable information to prevent the enemy from playing tricks with your mind. Jehovah has provided this. In the pages of the Bible, you can find all you need to combat Satan’s propaganda." Watchtower 2017 Jul p.28 "Be determined to stick to Jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface. (1 Thess. 5:12, 13) Do not be “quickly shaken from your reason” when faced with what appear to be damaging attacks by apostates or other such deceivers of the mind—however plausible their charges may seem." Watchtower 2017 Jul p.30
  2. 1. The Bible is a book that is true and worthy of belief. This is not to say that a literal interpretation makes it infallible. 2. The apparent contradictions found in the Bible arise from not interpreting the Bible in a spiritual manner. This implies that a literal interpretation can lead to problems. 3. By reading the Bible spiritually and prayerfully, the Holy Spirit can guide the reader into spiritual truth. From these facts, another conclusion may be drawn. While there exists severe problems with a literal interpretation (as you will discover below), this does not mean the Bible is not worth studying. We mustn't throw out the "baby" with the "bath water." These problems of giving the Bible a literal interpretation only show that it is the men who wrote the Bible who are fallible, not the Spirit of God. It can then be assumed that having these severe problems of literal interpretation were meant to exist in the Bible - perhaps because there exists a spiritual and/or symbolic meaning behind the literal problems. For example, the Book of Revelation has severe and catastrophic errors when interpreting it literally. However, when interpreted spiritually, this account may be spiritually true and not literally true. In fact, the same symbols in Revelation can be found in the dream symbolism of the Book of Daniel. This suggests the Book of Revelation is actually a dream or series of dreams which must be interpreted symbolically. Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of his day for taking a strictly literal, conservative view of the Hebrew Bible. They created an entire system of man-made rules and regulations around their literal interpretation of scriptures. Because they rejected Jesus' liberal interpretation of scripture, their theology was in question, so they had Jesus killed. Today, there are a large number of religious leaders and followers who are making the same mistake. For the last two thousand years of church history, literalism help fan the flames of Inquisitions, crusades, and all kinds of disputes over man-made dogma, such as: works versus faith, trinity versus oneness, eternal security versus no security, baptism versus tongues, and predestination versus free will, just to name a few. My purpose in pointing out the serious flaws of Bible literalism is to show that the gospel of Christ is much simpler than many Christians believe. The simple message of Jesus doesn't involve any interpretation nor all the rules and traditions that go along with it. The message of Jesus is love - unconditional love (Luke 10:25-28). The teachings of Jesus is not about religious dogma. A close examination of the Sermon on the Mount shows that the centerpiece of Jesus' teachings was love for your neighbor and your enemy. His gospel message is as simple and as profound as love.
  3. That is still assuming though isn't it? Anyway I have finished ping ponging around because no evidence is shown and this is pointless debating rather than focusing on what Jesus said was important. As I said, the Pharisees knew God's name but he wasn't concerned with that, he was concerned with the condition of the heart and providing hope.
  4. Yes but we don't want to detract from the qualities of the heart and be too factual. The scribes and the pharisees had very good knowledge but they didn't have the qualities of the heart. The interlinear says that "they should know you..." We sometimes like to make scriptures fit our ideals....I know I do it too. You are correct with the accurate knowledge that the apostle Paul was speaking but remember too that the apostle Paul had arguments with the other Apostles whom he met some 14 years after his encounter with Jesus. They had differing views. The Bible as it exists today was put together by the Pope and a handful of bishops. The Pope had many writings cut out which were considered scripture in Jesus' day. For example, Jude - who was the brother of Jesus - quotes in the Book of Jude from a book that was part of Hebrew canon at the time of Jesus' ministry on Earth and for many years after by early Christians. I am referring to the Book of Enoch. Here is the quote in Jude 14-15 of 1 Enoch 1:9. "In the seventh [generation] from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him'." (Jude 14-15) Peter also references the Book of Enoch in 2 Peter 2:4 and 1 Peter 3:19-20. Now if the Bible quotes from the Book of Enoch then this means the Book of Enoch is divinely inspired and should be included in the Bible. The Book of Enoch existed centuries before the birth of Christ and is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It is very likely that Jesus read the Book of Enoch and believed it to be scripture. It was considered scripture by many early Christians as well. If you want to have accurate knowledge well then you would have to include the book of Enoch as well. The Word is not a book! If you think otherwise you are worshipping a book and not Jesus. Jesus himself is the Word - and the Word is God - and God is love. According to the Bible, the Word of God is the Logos, the Spirit of Jesus, the only one original Word of God (see Revelation 19:13).Jesus taught a gospel that is love - a love that loves everyone, wills to save everyone and actually saves everyone. No religion is the way to eternal life including Buddhism - Christianity - Hinduism etc., because the way to heaven is love [God]. Love is universal. It is not limited to only Christians. God does not love only Christians. God loves the whole world and it is dishonoring to God to think that God loves everyone but throws the vast majority of humanity into destruction for not believing or hearing about the name of Jesus.
  5. All in all I don't think it matters because Jesus is not concerned with theology only love. After all it was the theologians who killed Jesus(let's not be pedantic, we know he gave up his life but it was an act of execution on their part), who new God's name(YHWH). On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "'Teacher," he asked, 'What must I do to inherit eternal life?' "'What is written in the law?' he replied. 'How do you read it?' "He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and, love your neighbor as yourself." "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied, "Do this and you will live." (Luke 10:25-28) I'm not saying Theology or Theologians are bad as long as it's helping you are grow in love the way Jesus taught. Being dogmatic seems to go against love from what I have experienced. But there is nothing wrong with learning and being open minded as long as you don't miss the point of what Jesus said.
  6. The New Testament is one of the most attested ancient documents. The reason a person places trust in it is their conviction that God ensured the Bible has come down to us accurately. If use of the name Jehovah is so important one must wonder why the word never appears in any existing New Testament documents. If God inspired and protected the Bible, keeping the Bible accurate throughout all history why does his name not appear in the oldest Greek manuscripts or in the very first Bible, the 5th century Latin Vulgate?
  7. So still no one has shown any evidence of YHWH in the earliest copies of the "New Testament." I only see manuscripts from Exodus, Deuteronomy, Job, Isaiah and other Hebrew Scriptures. Justin Martyr converted to Christianity around 150 A.D., a mere 50 years after the Bible was completed. He had access to early copies of the New Testament yet in The Second Apology, Chapter VI he wrote; "But to the Father of all, who is unbegotten, there is no name given. For by whatever name He be called, He has as His elder the person who gives Him the name. But these words, Father, and God, and Creator, and Lord, and Master, are not names, but appellations derived from His good deeds and functions." Justin Martyr shows that Christians referred to the Father by appellations, but not a name such as Jehovah. That the Holy Name was not being uttered in Jesus day is attested to by first century historian Josephus: "Whereupon God declared to him [Moses] his holy Name, which had never been discovered to men before; concerning which it is not lawful for me to say anymore. " (Josephus; Antiquities 2:12:4) As we do not have the actual original copies that the Bible writers penned it is always possible to say that YHWH may have appeared in the original copy. However the weight of evidence shows that YHWH was not in the original copies. If the Watchtower claims God allowed men to edit out his name "YHWH" and that no proof has been found to its existence to this day, how can a person have confidence in any of the New Testament?
  8. I know that's cool and I appreciate that we can have discussions like this as it helps having differing point of view. "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. 'Teacher,' he asked, 'What must I do to inherit eternal life?' "'What is written in the law?' he replied. 'How do you read it?' "He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and, love your neighbor as yourself.' "'You have answered correctly,' Jesus replied, 'Do this and you will live.'" (Luke 10:25-28) In terms of logic, the verse above states: Loving others and God IS THE WAY TO eternal life. When Jesus was on earth he stated that the kingdom was among them as he was demonstrating the way. BIBLE: "Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7)LOGIC: Loving others IS EQUAL TO being born of God AND knowing God. BIBLE: "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8) LOGIC: Love forgives many sins AND God IS EQUAL TO love, THEREFORE God forgives many sins. It is clear from the gospel accounts alone that Jesus is not concerned about a person's religious status. Jesus told the religious leaders who killed him that the prostitutes were going to enter heaven before they did (Matthew 21:31). Religion is a cultural institution. On the other hand, love is universal and not limited to a particular culture. According to the Sermon on the Mount, love is the greatest religion there is. Love is also what many of the great world religions is all about. However not everyone practices this religion of love. I try not to impose my Christianity on other people. If people have God-like characteristics, a feeling of compassion and living that out, then its ok. I respond more to behavior than philosophy. God really doesn't care about theology. Theologians killed Jesus! One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?' 'The most important one,' answered Jesus, 'is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.' 'Well said, teacher,' the man replied. 'You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.' When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, 'You are not far from the kingdom of God.'" (Mark 12:28-34) This is sharing the kingdom of God not factual knowledge. The teachings of Christ is not theology. Jesus taught unconditional love - not theology. It was theologians who had Jesus crucified. Jesus taught that love is the sign of a true disciple of Christ: "All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another." (John 13:35)
  9. Well at least show us one! "Sometime during the second or third century C.E. the scribes removed the Tetragrammaton from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with Ky´ri·os, "Lord" or The·os´, "God."" New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - With References p.1564 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures There is no proof whatsoever to support this claim, as not a single ancient New Testament document has been found with YHWH in it. Several available manuscripts date back to this period. P47 dates prior to 300 A.D. and contains four uses of Kyrios from Revelation that the NWT translates as Jehovah. P66 dates from around 200 A.D. from John (written in 98 A.D) and contains five occurrences of Lord that appear in the NWT as Jehovah. Some manuscripts go back to within 25 years of John's writings, yet none contains YHWH.
  10. I'm only referring to the New Testament and the 'earliest extant manuscripts,' not anything dated later than the earliest extant manuscripts. Please show us anything that shows the divine name that dates before the earliest extant manuscripts for the New Testament?
  11. Good research I didn't know that! Likewise bro. but I have learned a few things in the meantime. Yes I do the signs as you point out harmonize with Matt 24. No time in history has the earth been so populated and in a globalized stated because of technology. It seems to line up with Daniel 12:4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase." There are many events happening each day showing that we are we are reaching a climax. There are Christians being killed for there faith in the middle-east and other places. Even if you don't agree that they are true Christians they are in effect being killed because of Jesus name Matthew 24:9. Certainly they would have to have love for Jesus and God. Now I know this is a touchy subject involving Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia but I merely want to present this as a fact. Jehovah's Witnesses weren't banned for being Christian's. Christianity and the Bible aren't banned but it seems preaching is banned not just for Jehovah's Witnesses but Baptist Missionaries http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2017/january/exclusive-american-missionary-fights-to-pray-read-bible-in-putins-russia and others are as well. I don't think true Christians are limited to a group of people or an organization. John 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me, As I said before no one on earth has the absolute truth and Jesus only asked that we try to follow him to the best of our ability. He wants mercy not a sacrifice ect Jesus sums in it up in Matthew 22:37-40 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” When you love others and yourself you are in effect loving Jesus and God as well - Matt 25:40. You pray to him, you draw close to him and lean on him, and you read his inspired writings, then you have that relationship that is not limited to one group but a relationship that he as opened to all mankind. If God is love to the fullest sense then any sincere person who practices love in it's truest form is closer to God. James 4:8 Amazing things (blessings) happen when you are in that space, whether you are a Jehovah's Witness or not.
  12. Yes all in the Hebrew Scriptures with the nation of Israel - they used that name. The New Testament is the final revelation by God in the Bible and YHWH is not in the New Testament. You're going against Philippians 2:9 "God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name."
  13. Haha no I wasn't born then! Surely that is overkill though. There are plenty of well off JW's who have high qualifications like doctors and laywers and are they falling into snares and hurtful desires? No! So you are misapplying the scripture as the Leading Men at that time were. So are you laughing at people that did suffer then because of date speculation? And this isn't date speculation? 1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975]) I pray that your heart softens.
  14. I never said come to me I am not your mediator to God, I'm not saying I have all the answers, no one on earth does! As I pointed out Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. I do not ascribe to any religion and agree with the early statements of the Watchtower that "Religion is a Snare and a Racket!" I do see the Watchtower as a very successful book publishing company that has cleverly grown through free labor. It's clear that JW's elevate Jehovah's name over Jesus name when God has elevated Jesus name as the name above every other name - Philippians 2:9; also the person we are saved under - Acts 4:10. The New Testament is God's final revelation in the Bible not the old Testament so why go back to Isaiah 43:10 and contradict Acts 1:8. Jesus never said to call on YHWH for salvation and never said to address the Father as YHWH. But the Governing Body are meant to be God's channel! "Mystical manipulation can take on a special quality in these cults because the leaders become mediators for God." " "That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel." Watchtower 2013 Jul 15 p.20 Identifying those used by Jehovah Bible Times Watchtower Governing Body Miracles Jehovah used miraculous works to identify those chosen to lead others. For example: Noah - Gathering of the animals Moses - Staff into a snake Apostles - Gifts of the spirit, such as faith healing None Prophecy When Jehovah used a person to make future predictions, the prophecies were always correct. For example, Daniel's prophecy for the fall of Babylon and the line of world powers 100% of Watchtower predictions have been false, such as that the end of the world would be in 1914, then 1925, then 1975. Furthermore, the generation teaching promoted prior to 1995 is proven to be false, as the last survivors born prior to 1914 die out. Consistency Bible is harmonious, with Bible writers presenting a message without contradiction. Watchtower doctrine has been in constant flux. This cannot be explained as new light, as there have been numerous flip flops and contradictions, such as the generation teaching, organ transplants, and superior authorities. Why would I trust the Watchtower to save me at Armageddon when their track record shows me that even their well meaning assertions were wrong. I don't think I would take the so-called 'instructions that won't make sense from a human tactical point at Armageddon' when they do not have any reliable track record. Compare this to Joshua addressing the Israelites - Joshua 23:14 "...not one word has failed." All religions have elements of truth in them but no one religion has the absolute truth. I know the Jehovah's Witnesses have the saying that we are in the "truth." Well that's not true because it keeps changing. Come on lets be honest here. There a lot's of good things with Jehovah's Witnesses because of the teachings of bible based principles, but I see that with many other christian groups as well. What I don't see are soup kitchens or other charitable ways of helping the unfortunate unless they happen to be in a disaster area close other Jehovah's Witnesses. I believe your own sincere heartfelt personal relationship with God through his word, prayer and encouragement from fellow believers (true Bible believing Christians), and common sense is all that required. You can share that with others at anytime as well. I think religion has complicated things and created a lot of fear and a huge sense of obligation. Life is a precious gift from our creator and the price for our sins has been paid. Your not going to live a life against God if you sincerely accept that.
  15. Well it's certainly not the Jehovah's Witnesses as Jesus can't be leading an organization that has so many failed prophecies and farcical statements since 1919 of when Jesus had taken reign of this chosen group! They just make things up, and when things don't play as they say, they just change it and call it new light. 1915 The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 242) 1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211) 1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3) 1927 "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end." this also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." (Creation; 1927, p. 294) 1930 Judge Joseph Frederick Rutherford 60, lives in a ten room Spanish mansion, No 4440 Braeburn Rd, San Diego, Calif. Last week he deeded No 4440 Braeburn Road, and adjacent two car garage and a pair of automobiles to King David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, Samuel and sundry other mighties of ancient Palestine. Positive is he that they are shortly to reappear on earth, Said he: 'I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so that these princes of the universe will feel at home.. (Time Magazine, March 31, 1930) 1931 "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146) 1940 The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940) 1953 "After almost six thousand years of human sorrow, suffering and death, at last permanent relief is near at hand and will be realized within this generation." (New Heavens And A New Earth; 1953; p. 7) 1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975]) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1969 "in view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous....Many young brothers and sisters were offered scholarship or employment that promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual interests first." (Kingdom Ministry, June 1969, p. 3) 1976 "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216) 1995 "Why Awake is Published" [before Nov 8th 1995] Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." [After Nov. 8 1995 reference to '1914 generation' deleted] "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things." I have heaps more but again I quote: Deuteronomy 18:22 "When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’" Is this how Jehovah and Jesus guide a chosen group of people? Does Jesus motivate, by Holy Spirit, his anointed chosen ones to announce false things? The track record speaks for itself. As @Queen Esther nicely points out from John 14:6 only Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him. JOHN, 6, 44 ❤
  16. @b4ucuhear Everyone who became a Jehovah’s Witnesses before 1934 would go to Heaven (until Rutherford changed it). God stopped calling people to only a heavenly calling from that year. So he invented two classes, a heavenly class and earthly class. The “great crowd” class introduced by Judge Rutherford out of necessity. An earthly Great Crowd was created, a second- class of people that were subject to and dependent upon the heavenly class who alone would be part of the new covenant. But Mark Sanderson and other's are said to be of the anointed. Thus the Watchtower fulfilled exactly what Jesus scolded the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” The numbers for the 144000 do not add up Watchtower has stated “by the latter years of the first century the second great persecution, under Emperor Domitian, flared up. It is said that in the year 95 alone some 40,000 suffered martyrdom (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1951 p.516) Rev. 2:13: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.” The fact that Foxes book of martyrs mentions hundreds of thousands of martyrs in the first few centuries does not intrude on the Watchtower way of counting. They ignore history and revise it. They have to for arrival of their exclusive numbering. The Watchtower in its first report of partakers of the meal, are 36,372 (“Yearly Reports of International Preaching Activity” 1928 to 1958) a footnote which states: First record of partakers at Memorial kept for celebration on Wednesday, April 17, 1935 (Bulletin, March Extra, 1935, p.2) Their other reports state in 1935 ...... they had in attendance 63,146 ... and of those 52,465 were participants” (Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom p.717) This is 85 years ago. Lest say for the sake of math that the 144,000 were being chosen since the beginning of the church we use the lesser number of 36,372. Since the partakers of the Memorial must be considered by the Watchtower as part of the 144,000, accepting this idea would mean that there would be less than 144,000 to be chosen from 33 C.E. down to this period of time. The result would be 144,000 - 36,372 107,628 (source: Outnumbered – exploding the myth of the 144,000 by Russell Warren) The Bible also states, Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.” Acts 4:4 speaks of the number of men believing came to be about 5,000. That is 8,000 believers in Jesus in the first few weeks of the church. This would have to be an accepted number as the apostles were then the head of the church. When we subtract from the number of: 107,628 - 8,000 99,628 As Russell Warren points out these, too, would be of the 144,000 were the 144,000 were the only calling at that time. This leaves Jehovah to select 99,000 plus extending over almost 1900 years. Foxes Book of Martyrs lists 254,502 martyrs. When we subtract this number from the 99,628 left at the first Jehovah’s Witness memorial meal … well you can see they have a problem with the numbers. 99,628 -254,502 We now have 148,874 more than the 144,000 number. However let’s say it was only half the martyrs that Foxes book records, we are still 75,000 over the number. Oops. That is a big mistake Lets round off the numbers and say there were 100,000. It’s obvious anyone who can do basic math and reflect on accurate history will conclude that their numbering, not just their doctrine is way off. So how do they deal with it? They come up with the teaching of apostates.
  17. A strong indication that the Great Crowd are in heaven is that when Revelation 7:15 states that the Great Crowd are "in his temple" it uses the Greek word naos. Naos refers to the inner temple or temple sanctuary. General worshippers were only allowed in the outer courtyard; hieron. The Great Crowd are not on earth, they are in naos, the centre of the temple, the temple sanctuary; that is, they are in heaven itself with the 144,000. The Watchtower Society understands this distinction between naosnaos and hieron. In the Watchtower 1960 Aug 15 p.493 it explained; "The fact is that this temple was not just one building but a series of structures of which the temple sanctuary was the center. In the original tongue this is made quite clear, the Scripture writers distinguishing between the two by the use of the words hieron and naos. Hieron referred to the entire temple grounds, whereas naos applied to the temple structure itself, the successor of the tabernacle in the wilderness. Thus John tells that Jesus found all this traffic in the hieron." To say that the New Testament was written principally for the 144,000 and key Christian concepts are only applicable to this small number of people is untenable. It means we are to view the many millions of people that died for their Christian beliefs over the last 2000 years as false Christians. The doctrine of a secondary class is inaccurate and alienates the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses from Jesus. It removes the average Jehovah's Witness from much of the wonder of being a Christian, a relationship with Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit and is reminiscent of words Jesus spoke to the Pharisees; Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."
  18. Old Light New Light "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" Rutherford, 1920. "You can survive the end of this system of things" Watchtower 6/15/89, p7 "Millions Now Dead Will Live Again" Watchtower, May l, 1990 Never Die will DIE & live again! Examples Old light Original prophecy New light More specific prophecy (Adds to old light) Black light Failed prophecy (contradicts old light) We will give an answer the answer is yes the answer is now no! It will be a colour It will be blue We were wrong about blue, it will now be red It will rain It will rain today We were wrong about today, it will rain tomorrow Armegaddon is in the Bible Armageddon in 1925 & 1975 We were wrong when we said 1975 & 1925 Will the men of Sodom be resurrected? Yes Watchtower 7/18/79 p. 8 No Watchtower 6/1/52 p. 338 Yes Watchtower78/1/65 p. 47g No Watchtower7 6/1/88 p. 31 Yes Live Forever (old ed. ) p. 179 No Live Foreverr (new ed. ) p. 179 Yes Insight, vol. 2, p. 985 No Revelation. book, p. 273 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. Wt Feb Study E 2017 Who is Leading God's People? par 12 Moses, prophets and others were directed by Jehovah personally with direct inspiration. Jehovah's direction was never wrong through the prophets. They made mistakes of course because of there imperfections but when God spoke prophecy or direction through them they were fulfilled or took place. Any flip flops in understanding belongs to man and not to "new light." When an organisation claims to be God's only true representatives, it cannot afford to be wrong once, especially in prophecy! I thought Jesus was meant to of been head of the organization since 1919! 1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262) 1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106) 1924 "Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1924, p5) 1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211) So Jesus as head of the congregation was leading in a false manner. False light to be then adjusted later on to true understanding. Human wisdom is fallacious but Jesus and God's Holy spirit are not. (see below) 1989 They have a modern Governing Body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. these men, like the apostles and older men in Jerusalem in the first century, are anointed members of the faithful and discreet slave class designated by Jesus to care for all of his Kingdom interests here upon earth. History has proved that they can be trusted to follow the direction of the holy spirit and that they do not rely on human wisdom in teaching the flock of God the ways of genuine peace. (The Watchtower; Dec. 15, 1989; p. 6) Failed prophecy of the generation that will not pass away - Human wisdom and interpretation not directed by God. (see below) 1992 "Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. 'When you see all these things,' Jesus PROMISED, 'know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that THIS generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' - Matthew 24:33, 34." (Watchtower May 1, 1992 page 3: The Year That Shocked The World) Jehovah's Witnesses say they have new light. But the old light is not light, it is failed prophecy and interpretation. So the "increased light" e.g 'the generation that saw the generation that saw the events of 1914, would not pass away,' has it's basis on faulty light to begin with. Would Jesus and the Holy Spirit be responsible for that? Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaks in the name of JEHOVAH and the thing does not happen or come true, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Revelation 22:18 I testify and warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [its predictions, consolations, and admonitions]: if anyone adds [anything] to them, God will add to him the plagues (afflictions, calamities) which are written in this book;
  19. The representatives of God were intercessors to God in the old covenant, Jesus was to be the intercessor to God for everyone in the new covenant. The Jehovah's Witness Doctrine teaches that only the anointed have a covenanted relationship with Jesus. Therefore the New Testament only speaks to the anointed. The great crowd have to go through the anointed to benefit from the new covenant. Hence now you go back to the old covenant in having man or a group of men as the mediator to God. The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all. "… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6 The Watchtower states: To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27 So in essence you have to be attached with the anointed class to have Jesus as your mediator and benefit from Jesus Salvation. The scriptures teach otherwise: Romans 3:21-30 "But now apart from law God's righteousness has been made manifest, as it is borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets; 22 yes, God's righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. ... 29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of people of the nations? Yes, of people of the nations also " Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." Hebrews 7:25 "Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them."
  20. Yes the "Holy Spirit" not a "Spirit Directed Organization." The word "Organization" does not appear in the Bible. "Organization" and "Governing Body" are corporate titles.
  21. According to the Jehovah's Witnesses only the "anointed" go to the Father through Jesus, the rest of the "great crowd" go through the anointed then Jesus then the Father so John 14:6 doesn't apply to you. You pray personally to the Father through Jesus which is good but according to the doctrine you do not have a direct connection to Jesus and his Father. Only the anointed do which is not based on scripture. There are no anointed and non-anointed classes in scripture. Christ means anointed and Jesus said there would be many Christ's(anointed plural). Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and they will provide great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones). The Bible has been provided for people to know God's requirements. Has the Watchtower enlightened people beyond the words of Jesus? Is it not more accurate to say that what the Watchtower has said beyond that contained in the Bible has regularly been wrong and later changed? Information such as: Failed time prophecies Strange medical information and dangerous decrees such as that vaccinations and transplants are unchristian The changing stance on blood By going beyond the guidelines given in the Scriptures on disfellowshipping, have not the Slave created a practice that has had a destructive effect on the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, dividing families for decades? When a group of men claim special guidance from God as his sole representatives, they risk controlling people without justification, leading to disastrous results for the followers. Christians do well to keep in mind Bible warnings about following humans, and remember who their head really is. "Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." Psalms 146:3 "But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3
  22. @Allen Smith The one thing I have learned from all of this, is that we're all trying to serve a God of great mercy and deep love. He is greater than our hearts and 'minds' and what Jesus says at Mark 12:30,31 is the most important thing. Love covers a multitude of sins. God is not limited to man's opinions of others or of him, as he is greater than our hearts and 'minds'. No one has the perfect understanding of God's word or of him because man's understanding seems to have changed every so often, so I don't think he's going to hold that against sincere minded individuals. He loves us so much he sent his only son for imperfect humans, so why would he hold it against us if we have an imperfect understanding of the scriptures. Love and forgiveness seems to be what he is asking of us. All the best brother
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