James Thomas Rook Jr.

58 minutes ago, Arauna said:

..So keep looking in your kristal ball - it will get you everlasting life!

..I could not tell is you were being sarcastic or earnest in your comment.

I have to give it my "best shot", guessing to the best of my ability, using my experience and common sense ... often using the "smell test", and have to actually bet my life on the conclusions I reach.

If I guess, or decide wrongly, I of course have to pay the price ... and that can be anything from years of misery, to instant death, or worse.

If I rely on "Sky Pilots" for their wisdom, and THEY are wrong, I STILL have to pay the price, still anything from years of misery, to instant death, or worse.

.... AND THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER !

..... while sitting under a waterfall of free money that never stops.

I have been told that in some Middle-Eastern countries that all someone has to do to divorce their wife is say three times "I divorce thee ! ... I divorce thee ! ... I divorce thee ! ", and put Camel poop on her shoes.

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

It seems your Org gives you the answer you want. However I've no idea how recent this info is as @James Thomas Rook Jr. wrote that it didn't include homosexuality, and bestiality.

As usual, you misquote me .... I referenced that the WTB&TS, through the Watchtower, taught circa 1960's, that homosexuality and bestiality was not acceptable grounds for divorce. The logic was so convoluted, playing with scriptures, that it ruined MANY lives, under the imprimatur of "THE WORD OF GOD.

I did not write that.

I only reported that OTHERS wrote that.

... there is a difference.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Then why are you doubting the scripture (Matthew 19) which says that divorce is only allowed on account of adultery?   If couples may not remarry after separation (without adultery) you do not accept this?. This is in line with scripture...  

The key to understanding that scripture, Arauna is to understand WHO Jesus was speaking to .... specifically .... and what was the then common practice of divorce.... among that specific group.

Or do you believe that a man or woman is doomed to live the rest of their life alone, because their mate abandoned them to die, moves away, and never returns?

Remember, IT WAS THE DEATH PENALTY TO WORK ON THE SABBATH ..... but Jesus brought common sense to that argument, with the example of saving a lost sheep.

During the Las Vegas massacre several years ago, a man stole  a Utility Company truck in a parking lot to go into the line of fire, and take the wounded and dying to hospitals.

If he had been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I suspect he would have been disfellowshipped as an un-repentent vehicle thief, as he admitted to doing it, was not sorry he did it, and the crime was public and notorious.

I read about it here in North Carolina ... it was world news.

Plus... he put his life in danger with total abandon.

Which REAL men do, from time to time, for all sorts of "un-approved" reasons.

You are forgiven, my son ... go in peace, and sin no more.

...don' forget to tip the waitresses, and genuflect.

I find "tank films", produced in Russia, to be quite educational, and EXCELLENT productions.

The fact that they are free, on YouTube, is what makes it better.

...you could also watch Monty Python's movie about Jesus' brother "The Life of Brian".

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Columnist Andrew Sorokowski wrote at the time of the ban: Why would a country of 144 million trash its international reputation for the sake of harassing a harmless 175 thousand? 

You do not understand, TTH, ol' buddy, ol' pal, how the REAL world works.

The answer is quite simple, because it is ALWAYS the same answer with ANY group of people.

There are no exceptions.

Power and authority is acquired and/or consolidated ... when someone, anyone .... uses arbitrary power to make other people's lives miserable.

It causes fear, and dread of that arbitrary use of power and authority, and that fear and dread causes a chilling effect that suppresses protest, resistance, and consolidates power to make MORE arbitrary decisions into the hands of the perpetrators of this tyranny .... whether it be grand, or petty tyranny.

This is why the State Governors and their minions, cohorts, and accomplices give lip service to wanting to reopen the coronavirus disabled economy ... which in fact is THEIR disabled economy, basing their "decisions" on models and forecasts that from the very beginning, and continuing to this day HAVE NEVER BEEN RIGHT.

... by a factor of at least FOUR.

Their arbitrary use of power is exhilarating to them, and confuses simple minded ones when they see it being used, and the conclusion they most often reach is that the State Governors are wiser and smarter than they are ... a concept that the Governors know well, and exploit and take advantage of.

No one dares utter the simple truth "The King has no clothes!"

It is a vicious cycle that spirals upward in their favor, because the people fear punishment, ridicule, and social pressure to conform.

They also do not want to be punished for not being true believers in the crisis du jour,  ... like being fined or imprisoned for opening their restaurants early, as the edicts, not based on REALITY, are utter nonsense, and and are based only on fear of death by proxy, and the exploitation of mass hysteria.

No one dares utter the simple truth "The King has no clothes!"

Examples of this in EVERY walk of life, are legion, and standard operating procedure ... and always have been.

The arbitrary use of arbitrary power is what keeps those who have power, in power.

....and THEY, as long as they can maintain power ... always sleep warm, dress well, and never miss a meal.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

would have thought that a bunch of old men would have more clarity - having been foolish young men yourselves at one stage of your lives.

Meanwhile, in the hallowed corridors of World Headquarters ......

If we were judged by our thoughts, and not our actions ... who among us would not become murderers?

Since I do not represent myself as a spokesman for God, it is immaterial what I 'would do, could do' should do" in regulating and PUNISHING people for what they do or do not do.

But I do know that it is creepy, perverted, overreaching, and DESTRUCTIVE on a very large scale for ANYONE to tell a Sister whose husband is having sex with men, or animals, that she is scripturally NOT free to divorce, and get OUT of that hell-hole,, or the same sort of overreaching IS STILL done today  in the infamous, creepy and perverted "pillowgate videos" ... a continuous 30 minute stream of complete nonsense regulating things about which Jehovah God has NOT EXPRESSED ANY OPINION ABOUT WHATSOEVER, only in the imaginations of the wrapped-too-tight delusional who are grasping at straws, and making up applications to scripture to suit their own cultural taboos.

If nothing else .. it is just plain, ordinary common sense, which the Society seems to have ZERO.

The specificity ... THE SPECIFICITY ... of those videos is absolute confirmation to me that there are serious, DANGEROUS things going on at Bethel, and with the Society's completely clueless and pharisaic leadership.

But, the way I look at it, it is no different than being in the Marines, when the Officer Corps goes off the deep end ..... in the Marines, and among Jehovah's Witnesses, we just have to endure the injustices ... as fidelity to God and Christ ... and we have a conscience that tells us what that entails ....

...and plain old everyday common sense, which apparently, is not all that common.

The Marines have the UCMJ, and we have the Bible.

Semper Fi.

Be a sport ... LOOK IT UP!

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

we are taught TODAY ... today, 

I have to see this in writing....with a date on it........ do you have proof?

By "today", I mean in the last two or three years ...and of COURSE I have proof.

This is a clip of the infamous, globally distributed "pillowgate videos", put out by two "Helpers" of the Governing Body, and  were premiered about January 2018.   The previous references can be looked up in the Watchtowers of yesteryear, if memory serves, from the early 60's.

23 minutes ago, Witness said:

Can anyone exercise their conscience without the ability to think independently?  

"But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."  W 89 9/15/pp 20-25

I do not think history will repeat itself to that extent in this case.

We will just have to get smarter and not ruin a global economy every time someone declares the sky is falling.

Years ago, a great Civil war was fought in the USA, where one in four men in the South was killed ...because the Southern Democrats (Dixiecrats), and the Northern Republicans (Yankees) were willing to die to preserve their ways of life.

There is a reason its called "livelihood"..... and the deaths are merely the cost of doing business.

Of course ... that was back when ships were made of wood, and men were made of steel.

Apparently you cared .... until it came to making a phone call to resolve the question ... or you would not have started the thread!

This coronavirus stuff reminds me of the story of the Grasshopper and the Ant.

Everybody sthe story of the Grasshopper, and the Ant.

The Grasshopper played the fiddle all summer, goofing off, while the industrious Ant stayed busy storing up food for the coming long, hard winter.

When the first snow of winter came, the Grasshopper had no food, but the Ant had more than enough food for the winter.

So ...  the Grasshopper got in his sports car and went to Florida, ... and someone stepped on the Ant.

TTH:

It concerns me NOT AT ALL to be slighted by people that I care absolutely nothing about ... or even the ones I do care deeply about,

You care so deeply, as evidenced by your Epistle  .... YOU make the phone call

Or ... as an alternative ... you could continue to be slighted, indignant, and ignorant.

The simplest way to find out why Jehovah's Witnesses are not listed where you think the should be is ask the RNS.

OR... you might spend several days speculating and produce several dissertations.

4J:

You have a habit of getting your attributions mixed up, and your analysis is too simplistic, as well as mixed up.

Details are important.

that is a different subject altogether.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I suppose this translates as :-

The way to remain in the CCJW is not to be a JW. In other words ignore what the ones at the top say and ignore those 'taking the lead in the congregation'........ So funny James. 

The whole reason we have a conscience is to be able to differentiate between when we get good advice, and get bad advice ... either from others, or even from our own decision making processes.

Sometimes ... what you say is true ... sometimes it is not true.

My own experiences illustrate that.

Infinite variety.

Get used to it.

It will never change.

That's the way the REAL world works.

56 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

So funny James. 

No, it's NOT funny.

It's sad beyond words to express.

And the scripture TTH quoted:

¹² Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. ¹³ Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. ¹⁴ And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

It's a two way street ... we down at the bottom have to forgive the ones at the top when, in THEIR being idle and disruptive, screw up the works and try to make up theology from their own cultural predispositions.

Life is an experimental process. 

The Apostle was talking in general principles ... the same way that a Policeman or Fireman should be viewed ...it was not a blanket statement that applies to the ones in EVERY organization that are with their hard work and noble motives, incompetent screw ups that can ruin lives by the tens of thousands, because everyone is afraid to say anything.

How many Sisters', and childrens' lives were RUINED, forever, because the Society taught that their husbands having sex with men, and/or with animals was NOT grounds for divorce, and they were stuck in that "marriage" .... because NO ONE had the bravery to stand up and say THIS IS NONSENSE?

One, is too many.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

25 to 30 years earlier the Bethelites could still carry a gun on guard duty. This probably stopped in the 1950's,

Wasn’t that the day that JTR quit Bethel?

Good comeback!, and funny, too!

But cereally folks, I started studying the Truth in the 1960's,, and it was about the mid-60's that I noticed that a different culture was evolving.  Back then, if a JW family broke up, it was usually the husband left the wife for another woman, and the Society taught at that time that if a brother was a homosexual, or had sex with animals, it was NOT pornea, and she had no grounds for divorce. 

I am sure this caused a LOT of misery and suffering.

Today in the "pillowgate video" , the brother stated that if two Bethelites are sitting in facing chairs, naked, watching each other masturbate, that is also NOT pornea, because no one is touching another person.. I have posted that here, many times, so I will not do it again.

It is seriously creepy. Even the specificity of that is seriously creepy. Makes me wonder who got caught that could not be disfellowshipped.

The point of the above is that there are good reasons why I keep my own counsel on the matter of keeping and bearing arms, and being ready to defend the innocent at all times, and not pay too much attention to those in authority that have a long record of being seriously creepy ... and wrong.

We have had several instances of people in other towns using our Wells Fargo credit card numbers at Walmart and at a Victoria's Secret in Ohio or that area. Eventually it is corrected, but I have never had any problems with other banks. Also, I have had them change interest rates by a factor of 2, on loans, from the time the agreement is made and the papers were presented for signature.

Ya gotta watch them closely!