Jump to content

JW Insider

  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by JW Insider

  1. Someone changed it. Perhaps they were motivated by your own prediction. 😉
  2. Your entire response here and in one or two earlier posts in this thread appear to be exactly what I would expect to hear from an anointed person. I believe you speak out in the hope that readers will reject the falsehoods and accept truths in their place. Which is fine. Perhaps you also want all readers to reject the entire association with the JW Organization, as you think it has gotten so far off track. This is where I think you are being impractical. On the first count, obviously we should reject all falsehoods and accept truths to the best of our ability. On the second part, what do you think would be wrong with continuing to associate with the same brotherhood from which has sprung so many truly anointed persons? And then, if one considers himself to be anointed, continuing to bear righteous spiritual fruit (love, joy, peace, etc) that will have a positive and upbuilding effect on others. I don't consider myself anointed, of course, but this (above) is also the same thing I believe I would try to do if I were. If you believe the GB are creating a "dark place" for other anointed persons, why not be that light in a dark place, as far as it depends upon you? Perhaps you personally are in a situation where you have been kicked out of the synagogue for calling the leaders blind, and it seems nearly impossible or unfruitful to go back. But if other anointed persons decided to merely set a good example of "shining as illuminators" among the same brotherhood in which they were called, do you think it would be wrong for them to remain in the state they were called? Since we were effectively called as slaves into a certain "household of faith" I think 1 Cor 7:19-24 gives a thought that might be related: (1 Cor 7:19-24) Circumcision means nothing, and uncircumcision means nothing; what means something is the observing of God’s commandments. 20 In whatever state each one was called, let him remain in it. 21 Were you called when a slave? Do not let it concern you; but if you can become free, then seize the opportunity. 22 For anyone who was called in the Lord when a slave is the Lord’s freedman; likewise anyone who was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. 23 You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men. 24 In whatever state each one was called, brothers, let him remain in it before God.
  3. In some ways, I am impressed that it's a step in the right direction. Allowing for some differences on conscience matters is still better than saying everything must be done a specific way because that's the only way a Bible-trained conscience should allow for. The brother is probably 75 to 80, so I didn't press him, but he was the one who used the terms "strongly encouraged" and "strongly discouraged." It's true that it implies that no one was told they must do it this way or that way, but it also implies that "loaded" or "leading" language would be used. We all know that this produces the implied idea: "I'm not telling you what to do, but you you know what you need to do . . . 'wink, wink,' . . . 'nod, nod.' "
  4. Well I got an answer from the brother with connections to Chile and elsewhere in South America, but it's very hard to believe. The answer is so odd that I hate to offer it yet as an explanation. So I also called about 12 different KH numbers, including an Assembly Hall number and the main number for Chile on JW.ORG (which matches the number on the "infamous" letterhead). I recorded the messages I got on each number. Some rang 'forever' and some had "no service" messages, and two had recorded messages after which I could have left a call-back number, but didn't. I am still going to have to call again next week, to attempt further verification. The friend I met with definitely knows about the Internet "hoopla." The son-in-law who was a Circuit Overseer there has come back to the USA more than once with his wife (my friend's daughter) due to a medical condition treated here. They have gone back, but each time to a different assignment, sometimes in different countries of South America. So I couldn't get an exact response about "a firsthand" experience with the topic in Chile since 2014. Neither of his daughters (or sons-in-law) are currently in Chile. So here was the answer that still needs more verification (mostly because I find it hard to believe). He stated it very matter-of-factly, and didn't seem to see a problem with it at all. Circuit Overseers are evidently told to strongly encourage the display of the flag on specific mandatory days ONLY in those areas where there have been past legal issues in the area regarding enforcement. Enforcement is not uniform, even though it applies to all buildings. Other circuit overseers have been told to strongly discourage the display of the flag on the premises of a KH, with certain exceptions regarding property ownership by individuals volunteering a property's free use as a KH. I asked about why he thought an inconsistent policy would be encouraged. His answer to that question was what really seemed more disconcerting: "Because if some congregations do and some don't, the government will see that this is a matter of conscience, and will realize that they [local JWs] aren't being ordered to handle the matter one way or another [based on a directive] from the [Watch Tower] Society." I didn't have the heart to point out that this is a strange way to prove that something is really a matter of conscience.
  5. I will be happy to. But at 2pm today I'm actually driving out of state to meet an elder whose 2 sons-in-law are/were(?) circuit overseers in Paraguay and Chile respectively. One was the "Home Overseer" for several years, but I don't recall whether that was the one or Paraguay or Chile. The purpose of the visit is unrelated, but I will definitely remember to ask him about the Chilean flags. I can't imagine that he doesn't know. But if not, I volunteer to call one or more of the KH's in Chile. BTW, at most it's a very low charge, sometimes just a few cents to call through Google Phone, or other IP phone services.
  6. What you have here is very similar to what I was about to show, but of course, I picked slightly different reference points on the flag for reasons that I thought were reasonable, but don't think would be worth the trouble to explain. The pole and flag still seem nearly perfect to me (using the points I chose). Doesn't mean much, since we should be looking for a preponderance of evidence as JTR calls it, not just a couple items here and there. But I admit that I had not seen all the supposed evidence when I questioned HQ. I presented it as if it was just a couple possible examples both in 2016 and earlier this year. That reminds me, that on the additional view of another Hall at 2789 Mexico Ave, shown above with an EMPTY flagpole, I find it interesting that Google Street View took the picture just a few months before it became marked as a Kingdom Hall. Note that there was no flagpole in the June 2014 photo from Google, but there is one per an ex-JW (I presume) who took a picture in September 2014. This would mean that either the picture was altered, or the brothers at the Hall had installed the flagpole as a part of opening up the KH. I see no evidence that the photo was altered, especially as it was just one of several pictures of various degrees of quality. But this would have been an easy one to alter, if someone wanted to. But then, why create a slightly off kilter flagpole. BTW, Chile has their own street mapping application, and they have recently added street view, but not with this address completed.
      Hello guest!
    Del Reino México 2789
  7. I wouldn't go that far. Someone could have superimposed the flag onto the picture, but knowing where the flagpole is from another picture now puts the shadow in exactly the right place (in my opinion). Also, I just ran a line from each known shadow projection point (corners, objects) on that front facing wall, and they all spread exactly as expected (nearly parallel, but flared as expected with low sunlight). Also notice that the edges are even attenuated as expected the further distance that the shadow travels to reach the further part of the wall from the flag. Compare that slight blurriness to the crisper shadows of the roof overhang, etc. That's a lot of unnecessary work if all they had to do was just not show a flag shadow altogether, or get a picture without shadows. They even caught the depth of the vinyl siding correctly and realized that the zig-zag would have to be exaggerated for the longer angle. If it's faked they got all this down perfectly. That tells me that the shape of the flag shadow itself is likely correct even though we can't see a portion of the flag making a piece of the projected shadow. If they had the abilities required to attenuate and zig-zag the Gaussian blur correctly, then they could have produced a more "expected" shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag. The fact that they did not work to make it more "expected," but left a perfectly reasonable shadow anyway tells me it's not "Photoshopped." I'm willing to suspend judgment and give more credence to the supposed branch letter's explanation. Also, due to my own prejudices, I have tried to be a stickler at avoiding jehovahs-witness.com, even when it comes up as the only source in Google for certain information. But I see that there is more evidence there than was presented previously on this site. For example, quoting: "Hi, I moved during the past week and searched 21 Kingdom Halls, not including Bethel. I could only obtain a picture of a mast and a waving flag. The picture of the mast (with no flag) is of a Hall that's at Avenida México 2789 in the neighborhood of Puente Alto, Provincia Cordillera, Región Metropolitana, Chile, and was taken on the 21st of September, 2014 at around 6PM." On this picture, I would have sworn that the JW.ORG sign was photoshopped. That would be damaging, if true, but still wouldn't be critical to the point of the picture. I found the location of this Hall on JW.ORG and on Google Street View, but can't see the sign.
  8. That wasn't one of the 21 addresses in Santiago proper, but I did find it here (in the Valparaiso Region). The flagpole is definitely kept on the KH side of the fence, and this is definitely the site of an actual KH with a flagpole on the property.
  9. The particular picture you showed, however, might or might not be evidence for what it looks like. I don't think it's a coincidence that the picture finds the most damning angle, and yet that angle still doesn't prove what it was apparently intended to prove. Notice how close the flag material is shown to the corner of the Hall. You could not take a picture with it any closer. We also have a shadow that indicates the flag is not as close to that corner as it first appears. And we have a vertical fence bar obscuring the vertical flag pole so that we don't know if it is behind the white fence or in front. The picture therefore appears staged in a way that could be hiding evidence and which could be easily shown one way or another with a second picture that shows which side of the white fence the flag is on. You have often shown the picture below, and engineers and draftsmen realize that you often need three or more perspectives, and dotted (hidden) lines to get the full picture.
  10. It's funny. I have no trouble getting to sleep, but by choice I've always been able to stay up several nights a week and not feel it the next day, and go on as normal. But I've heard that this is not healthy, and at 61, now, I'm beginning to need more than 5 hours of sleep. I began working on a building project a couple weeks ago, and will be for another couple weeks. When younger, I'd come home and find that reading or studying would be an enjoyable way to get some rest, even if it meant losing sleep. But these last couple weeks, I'm actually falling asleep in the evenings even when I want to stay up. This must be the end of the world as I knew it.
  11. If I recall correcty, the idea was that there is a day of independence or something like that where the flags are put up for a day or two. It's possible that individual JWs, based on conscience, might put up a flag here and there. But I'm pretty sure the KH would rather pay a fine rather than put up a flag. There was a time when we would rather take it to court than even pay a fine.
  12. Not sure what this means, but on the topic of the Chilean flag flying at, on or near Kingdom Halls, I don't really believe it. When this topic first came out a couple of years ago, there were some problems with the correspondence that supposedly explained it from an JW standpoint. Also, not all properties where KH's exist are fully owned by JWs. There could be a myriad of reasons that a flag exists on or near a JW property. But I'm not sure they really do. I followed up on this by calling Patterson a couple of years ago (and the brother said he didn't know if it was true) and speaking to someone more recently in Warwick, who said "that couldn't be true," as far as he knows. But he also didn't know about any Internet-based commotion on the topic. I told him that I had checked about 20 Kingdom Halls in Chile using Google Street View. Here is one example:
      Hello guest!
    ,+Renca,+Región+Metropolitana,+Chile/@-33.4041048,-70.6907054,3a,75y,108.84h,87.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slfiq6LkMs2Z5CuAmFiG3ig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x9662c69f295173ad:0x837dfa74929e385!8m2!3d-33.4041138!4d-70.6904265 Just go to JW.ORG and get the addresses of all the different locations in Santiago, for example:
      Hello guest!
    , Chile/-33.43783,-70.650449/@-33.434145,-70.639928,13z These images were taken when the law was supposedly in effect. Yet, none of them showed flagpoles. None of them showed flags. I checked a few churches, too and none of them show flags either. I checked the one Hall that had been mentioned on this site, too. I'm not even sure about the supposed "law" as described. There have been several items promoted by JW opposers that should rightly raise some suspicions. It's not usually that hard to look up corroborating evidence these days, even if it's half-way around the world for some of us. If anyone knows of any different evidence, I'd be happy to see it. But I have strong doubts that there is any definitive evidence that means what opposers have claimed.
  13. Pinpointing the first single day of the crash ends up giving an incomplete picture of the larger problem. By the end of October 1929 about 25 percent of the value of the market was gone. By 1933 about 80 percent of the peak 1929 market was gone. Ironically, it was when Roosevelt (FDR) turned to some Marxist ideas from "socialism" that the economy began improving again after 1933. Even more ironically, the big secret of capitalism relies on the largest capitalists continually taking of more and more of other people's money until they finally run out of it, and they cannot drain any more money from the system (mostly from workers). As historian Schlesinger says: According to historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. the most critical reasons for this economic collapse can be summarized as: 1) Management’s disposition to maintain prices and inflate profits while holding down wages and raw material prices meant that workers and farmers were denied the benefits of increases in their own productivity. The consequence was the relative decline of mass purchasing power. As goods flowed out of the expanding capital plant in ever greater quantities, there was proportionately less and less cash in the hands of buyers to carry the goods off the market. The pattern of income distribution, in short, was incapable of long maintaining prosperity. 2) Seven years of fixed capital investment at high rates had “overbuilt” productive capacity (in terms of existing capacity to consume) and had thus saturated the economy. The slackening of the automotive and building industries was symptomatic. The existing rate of capital formation could not be sustained without different governmental policies – policies aimed not at helping those who had money to accumulate more but at transferring money from those who were letting it stagnate in savings to those who would spend it. 3) The sucking off into profits and dividends of the gains of technology meant the tendency to use excess money for speculation, transforming the Stock Exchange from a securities market into a gaming-house. . . . Source: Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. The Crisis of the Old Order, The Age of Roosevelt 1919-1933: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1957, pp. 159-160.
  14. It's a typical pattern for sexually abused persons not to want to speak out against an abuser for 20 years or more, or even admit to themselves or others that the abuse was "real." And the trust issues created by the abuse will often extend to the parents, other grown-ups, the courts, the police and other authorities. And sometimes for good reason: an abused person will very often be abused again and again by those who recognize the signs of a damaged psyche. (For the record, literally thousands of Mexican and Central American children who were detained in the last couple of years in immigrant detention centers, often removed far from their parents, claimed they were abused sexually by Americans in charge of the centers. This is the same "government" that is supposed to be caring for them. But many of these persons were also running away from sexual abuse and other crimes in their own countries where a drug and gang culture has become as powerful as the local governments of those countries. The point being, that not even those in charge of protecting you can be trusted.) I haven't seen the documentary yet, but I recall listening to interviews with some of M.Jackson's family, and remember thinking that they (LaToya, Janet, etc) wouldn't have worded things exactly in the way they did if they didn't know that he was guilty in some of these cases. I understand that Neverland was built with many secret escape routes that were set up in such a way that M.Jackson could commit crimes and then escape and hide if law enforcement came for him. I think that this is included in the documentary.
  15. It is possible to correctly translate "I am Christ" as "I am anointed" but it is not the most likely meaning. The most likely meaning is that people would represent themselves a 'false christs' or 'false messiahs.' Another meaning is that people would present themselves in the name of Jesus, admitting that Jesus is the Christ, but would still mislead them. In either case, the Watchtower's doctrine at the time was that RUSSELL WAS ONE OF ONLY A VERY FEW CHRISTIANS WHO COULD CALL HIMSELF "THE CHRIST." Not all Christians were part of THE CHRIST, but Russell and a few others who had qualified for the "higher calling" could refer to themselves as "THE CHRIST." In Russell's view, it was not even true that all ANOINTED Christians could refer to themselves as "THE CHRIST." But it was OK for he himself and a few other Christians to do so. This doctrine was taught from the very earliest Watch Tower magazines and well into Rutherford's era. It was not officially rejected until the 1960's, although it was rarely mentioned after 1930. The 2/15/1927 Watchtower said, on page 53: "Seeing then that The Servant of Jehovah is The Christ, and that The Christ is composed of Jesus and the faithful members of his body, we find it proper to apply the term "Servant" to Jesus Christ alone or to Jesus Christ and the members of his body collectively as one; and sometimes it is applied only to the members of the body of Christ yet on earth." This is also found in Rutherford's "Harp of God" and other articles where he echoed Russell's explanation, as found in the 6/15/2011 Watch Tower, p.165: This Christ is composed of many members. . . . This Gospel age is the time in which the Messiah is prepared. The Head of the Messiah . . . is first, followed by the Apostles and then various other members of the body through the Gospel age. . . . This age will end when the full number of the "elect" shall have been found and tested. Then the body will have been completed. When The Messiah is complete, The Christ will be complete." I recall that the key elements of this doctrine were still being taught by F W Franz during morning worship at Bethel in 1976-1982, and many of his expressions there had found their way into the Watchtower publications of the 1970's and 1980's. These include the doctrines that Jesus is not the mediator of the great crowd of other sheep, only the 144,000. That the mediator for the "other sheep" is, in effect, the 144,001. And the meaning, of course, is summarized in a very common teaching, as found in our publications below: The Bride class is just as deserving of the confidence of all people on earth as is the Bridegroom, the King Jesus Christ. This could have just been awkward wording, but Franz was well known for dropping hints like this, where on page 32 it adds, that the 144,000 are singing about themselves when they praise the Lamb. Page 88 and 89 of the same book: Having such a royal position, they can, all together, make up a "bride" of suitable station for the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who is himself a heavenly King, seated at the right hand of Jehovah God. . . .The 144,000 sealed slaves of the living God become the "kings of the earth" . . . . . no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish." With the Lamb Jesus Christ, these followers of his who have been bought from among mankind as a firstfruits to God and to the Lamb make up a company of 144,001. This recalls the teaching of Russell which stated that the 144,001 were "THE CHRIST." There is nothing necessarily untrue about some of these statements, but they were often utilized to create the idea that "The Christ" was being represented by persons who could therefore have knowledge of the times and seasons and that such doctrines must be followed. Those who followed these anointed were supposed to have as much confidence in them as in Jesus Christ himself. This was not future confidence, but currently, while they are on earth. It does seem a bit presumptuous and haughty. Russell had taught that because he was also a member of "The Christ" just as Jesus was, that it was appropriate for him to also think of himself as "the prophet greater than Moses." (For that matter, Russell would therefore even refer to himself as a part of the "Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace" of Isaiah, referenced indirectly with the words "a paternal government" on page 368, above.) Since then, the term "144,001" has often been used when the context is about the greater glory of the anointed and how only by fully trusting in them now, will we, the other sheep, gain present blessings from them along with the future blessings of their kingly and priestly functions. Not necessarily wrong at all, but it should never have been tied to our confidence in predictions about how we should be so motivated by the times and seasons. Page 208: Page 369:
  16. Thanks for sharing this, Jack. I have a friend who has been involved with the setting up of jw.org from the beginning and he knows that they have spared no expense to make sure the site is never hacked. Internally, the WTS and related corporations also distribute multiple versions of documents with hidden identifying tracking information buried in them so that if one is leaked it will be easy to narrow down the department or even the person, hopefully, from whom it was leaked. It's a shame that the WTS needs to put so much time and resources into tracking leakers, but it is the right of any corporation to take any measures deemed necessary to protect corporate interests. The shame, in my opinion, is that the WTS and related corporations have produced any documents or videos that would be embarrassing to have distributed, or even critiqued. If one is humble, critique should be welcomed, requested and even promoted. Distribution of any WTS content by any means (e.g., news channels, social media channels, apostate channels, underground channels, and official channels) should all be encouraged. This assumes, of course, that nothing embarrassing or secret or underhanded is ever produced. As a corporation that can take pride in the message being given to the world, any and all means of allowing that content to be freely shared should be appreciated. And, as stated, if the producers of the content are humble, they will appreciate any type of questions and criticism, too.
  17. Found it from the other link:
      Hello guest!
  18. Sounds like a slight misinterpretation of the TJ position. What is the source? Also Tlaxcala is about as far away from a U.S. border wall as you can get in Mexico.
  19. It's very true that government (police, investigators, prosecutors, judges, child protection services, etc.) often fails to do their job correctly. True again. It's so typical of lawyers to go after an institution when it's not even the fault of an institution, just because that's where the money is. As you know, this goes for a lot of legal issues, even those unrelated to child sexual abuse. Of course, if it can be shown that an institution had hidden the abuse to protect their own assets (coach, priest, cardinal, bank account) or to protect their institution's reputation (a college, a football team, a diocese, a religion) then there should be culpability. In some few cases these vultures swoop in to exact a kind of punishment where the "system" failed, but there is no real justice for all, because this very much a 'hit and miss' process. There are cases against the Watchtower that really have absolutely nothing to do with the Watchtower, and should focus just on getting justice for the victim from the abuser. And there may be cases where congregation elders have made a mistake that has nothing to do with their training as elders and they should have known better. Some of these cases should have nothing to do with the Watchtower Society or the organization. True. Powerful and monied interests can be leveraged on behalf of both persons and institutions, and that can make even good police investigative work meaningless. Victims are typically poorer and abusers can use their own power and influence to buy attorneys that can bully those victims. Victims can be talked into exonerating the abuser, or settling cases with a sack of money and a gag order. I have a feeling that the HBO documentary on Michael Jackson which may be aired next month will show how money can buy the kind of lawyers and threats that protect abusers. Acosta/Epstein is another case in point.
  20. Thanks. That's certainly not a theme I would agree with. It's inconsistent with the facts. One of the earliest mentions of child sexual abuse was in a 5/15/1970 Watchtower, and there was a previous mention in the 1960's, I forget just where it was now. I had a feeling that this was case you intended. If you read it carefully, of course, you can see that this was not the case that Brother Knorr got involved with. During his tenure as president, Brother Knorr became involved in every case where a Bethelite had to be dismissed. The rest of the Bethel family would often hear the reasons why at breakfast, no matter how distasteful. But it was a good reminder that the organization should be kept clean, and that it was good to stay alert to the fact that persons at all levels of responsibility within the organization could become involved in immoral, illegal, and even criminal behavior. This indecent exposure case, however, was not about a Bethelite and we read nothing about N.H.Knorr getting involved.
  21. A research package I have through a university alumni account only provides the basic subscription to NEWSPAPERS.COM but does not include the "Publisher Extra Newspapers" unless I travel a couple hundred miles and access it from on the premises. But it does tell me that it's here:
      Hello guest!
    and that this is page 19 of the 11/20/2011 Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY). I can't get all the text from it without paying, but I can tell you that you will also find the identical quote you are looking for below, where anyone can access it for free. (It matches the quote as found in your book.)
      Hello guest!
    Reporting abuse It is a mistake to think that the failure of Penn State authorities to report abuse is a rarity, child abuse educators, prosecutors and investigators say. Studies across the country over the past two decades have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so. That is because they are uncertain of whether abuse occurred, are fearful of making false accusations or are unsure of their obligation. "Mandated reporting of abuse only works as well as the people it's reported to," said Dan Gleason, a retired Rochester Police Department investigator who is now a private investigator. "People sometimes try to be judge and jury when the victim discloses. If they don't believe it, they don't report it." Every state has a law that requires professionals to report all suspected cases of child abuse or maltreatment they encounter professionally. Under New York's law, enacted in 1973, mandatory reporters include physicians, nurses, teachers and school officials, social workers, police officers, daycare and social service workers, and therapists. Lawmakers in Albany have proposed closing what they see as a loophole in the state's mandated reporting statute that, unlike the law in Pennsylvania, excludes college coaches and administrators in the belief that colleges have little contact with children. Meanwhile, watching what has been happening at Penn State and Syracuse leaves Scuteri angry and exasperated. "Who's in charge, and who's doing what?" he said. "What's going on?"
  22. So sorry for the abuse and extended trauma of your relatives. Quite true that secular authority was much more dismissive in the past. Some secular authorities are still dismissive today. Even US Attorney Acosta broke the law by hiding the plea deal with Jeffrey Epstein (wealthy hedge fund manager) after at least 30 underage female victims came forward. There are indications that the actual number of victims may have been in the hundreds along with rumors that he escaped prosecution for years by flying recruited underage girls to a private island Epstein owns. Acosta claims that his actions, although obviously illegal, were signed off by 'all levels of government.' That's an odd or even loaded expression when there are pictures of Trump and Clinton with Epstein. I don't think either of them ever denied flying to his personal island with him. Trump even made Acosta his Labor Secretary after the Epstein cover-up. Of course, this doesn't mean criminal behavior by Trump or Clinton. It could just be a coincidence. But this is just a high-level case. I've heard of high school students molesting younger students and schools trying to hide the case from police, even recently. When it's a teacher, or coach, there is often a network of their peers and administrators who will cover for them. I know of a local case where police declined to arrest/investigate a coach when the crimes seemed obvious. Hopefully this is changing for the better everywhere. I'd have to agree that sometimes in the past, this dismissive attitude by secular authorities has limited how far a congregation felt they could reasonably investigate a case, too. Just in case this supposed "good friend and confidante" was me, I'll weigh in. The truth is I had no idea what you were talking about with Knorr weighing in on a case about child abuse. It seemed quite possible, so I don't doubt that he may have involved himself in one one or more such cases. But I googled some of the content you included about that case and only found it on watchtowerdocuments.org which is a site run by ex-JW Barbara Anderson. I looked at the particular case and see that you are mistaken about it. This is not a case about child abuse. It's a case where the Astoria, Queens, NY congregation had a Bethelite (Brooklyn) assigned to it who had broken off an engagement with a sister there, and admitted to loose (brazen) conduct during the engagement. He had evidently done something similar (broken 'promises' to a sister along with loose conduct) back in his 'home' congregation before being invited to Bethel. He was dismissed from Bethel as of September 19th 1970 (and replaced as Book Study servant by a 19 year old brand new Bethelite in the next couple of months). The Astoria, NY congregation had announced his "probation" and quoted the direction they got from Knorr to the South Carolina congregation where the brother had just moved, letting them know about the case and that it would be OK to announce that he had been dismissed from the Bethel family (per Knorr's letter).
  23. It looked to me like there was more to the government's case. Apparently the brothers assigned to do the HLC work in Spain were creating a database of doctors sympathetic to bloodless surgery. But it was done by compiling information gathered from questioning doctors, questioning staff, and questioning the experience of Witness patients with those doctors. The amount of cooperation in the way they answered questions, and the patient experiences were all used to produce a list of those assumed to respond well in situations listed. The data from both patients and doctors was used to make assumptions about how those doctors would treat cases assumed similar by the the HLC. It was being shared without permission. This had come up before and the HLC had been called out for this in 2014 and 2017. So the HLC promised to destroy the database. A followup shows that the HLC is still making use of the database that they never destroyed, and they are still collecting data. I think the penalty is especially for lying about the destruction and (dis)continued use of the database.

  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.