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JW Insider

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  1. I don't know exactly what you mean by this, Pudgy, but it reminds of how easy it is to revert to the thinking and words of old 19th century White Supremacists in the USA (and elsewhere, and else-times). In the next tab over, I'm currently reading a 19th Century history of a Southern U.S. county where the author decries the fact that colonists were living as deplorable "slaves" to England before fighting for their freedom. And yet, he says the slaves from Africa needed the United States and slave-owning Christians because of the slaves' innate limited mental capacity, lack of family bond
  2. Another problem, of course, is trying to make a temporary loss of a vicious, pagan, gentile throne somehow be fulfilled as the temporary loss of a Davidic Messianic non-Gentile throne, so that the restoration of wicked Nebuchadnezzar to his pagan throne pictured the return of Jesus to sit on his Messianic throne. Nelson Barbour and Charles Russell and George Storrs, and others, probably didn't realize the depth of sacrilege in this idea. Imagine if Jesus had started out a parable like this: The kingdom of heavens is to be likened to a vicious, pagan, haughty king who killed Jewish pe
  3. Yes, sort of. Nothing wrong in taking it that way. But, in actuality the Hebrew word we translate "weeks" is just the equivalent of "sevens." Here are some web examples, and there are dozens more: Learn about the history of this passage commonly known as "The Seventy Sevens" Daniel 9:20-27 – The Prophecy of the Seventy Sevens In Daniel 9:24,Gabriel specified the time period for the fulfillment of the prophecy as “seventy weeks” or more literally "seventy sevens" (šābuʿîm šibʿīm). According to Young, "Most expositors find here a week of 7 years duration, a total of 490 years."27
  4. There is something rather distasteful when one tries to apply the expression about Jehovah allowing an "operation of error" being allowed for anyone's benefit. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) . . .But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that t
  5. And here we start with the creation of chaos and mudslinging. If you see Trinity in those verses you need to read them again. Note: (Revelation 1:1) . . .A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,. . .
  6. Actually, Jesus is called "king of those who rule as kings" by Paul, and "ruler of the kings of the earth" by John before any visions of the future, and before being swept into "the Lord's day" which Watchtower publications identify as the time from 1914 on. Look at the context, and notice that this is the introduction, in the present tense. (Revelation 1:4-6) . . .May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dea
  7. How? When Jesus became king and sat on the throne he was already king. It's true he had to wait until the proper time to conquer all enemies, as the last enemy death would not be conquered until the thousand years would be ended. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't ruling in the midst of those enemies before they would be conquered. We don't say that when a king sits on his throne that he is not really a king yet, and that sitting on a throne just means waiting until you get the title a second time. Therefore Paul could replace the term "sit at my right hand" with "rule as king.
  8. Obviously, Jesus could not use discernment therefore when it came to understanding the book of Daniel. [sarcasm] I guess that's because the last days hadn't begun. That understanding of Daniel could only be understood, I suppose, after 1914 when the Last Days were supposedly upon us. But wait! It was understood exactly this way by Nelson Barbour in 1872 and seen as a possibility by "Reverend" Elliott even in 1844. That must be because the "Last Days" for Barbour and Russell started in 1799. 1914 was NOT embedded in the book of Daniel. Daniel says nothing about the Gentile Times. Therefore
  9. Don't forget the apostle John and the apostle Paul and Matthew: (Revelation 1:5) 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . . (1 Timothy 6:14, 15) . . .until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords. . . (1 Corinthians 15:24-27) . . .. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to
  10. Good suggestions. Of course, without getting into any of the specific details of those topics here, I think those suggestions can be properly discussed under this heading about individual and collective conscience. Let's say that after consideration of the Bible principles involved along with prayer and meditation, a Witness conscientiously believes that he should speak up about a potentially wrong teaching. Let's say, for example, it was anywhere from 1966 through 1973, and the Witness saw too much improper speculation about the end of 6000 years of human existence in 1975, or
  11. @xero Did you already put part one of the Abilene paradox up somewhere? If you did I missed it. Part 2 makes much more sense if we see that one first:
  12. I could be wrong, but I think what you're trying to say is that I should start a discussion about 1914, the Kingdom, and 607 BCE, and the parousia.
  13. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the long-winded idiots, but I really enjoyed the island walk. Someday, I'll watch more of it at actual speed. I have a habit of turning everything up to 2x speed and then watching for only 3 seconds before skipping a minute and watching another 3 seconds and then skipping another minute, etc. This video was too nice for such short-shrift treatment.
  14. xero has been rightly criticized for condescension with respect (or lack of respect) to some Witnesses and their IQs, and prior references to Witness obesity, gluttony, lack of exercise, etc. But this is nothing compared to the near constant condescension of a couple of others who have graced this forum under names like John and Billy. So I thought that I would join the fray of critics and point out that even TTH shows some condescension above by implying that freed slaves are somehow prime examples of those who are not necessarily bright. It's true that doctors were not necessarily
  15. Me too. As I see my parents getting older, I see that the Zoom meetings work for them better than the telephone connection which they have used on occasion in the past. We used to have a KH in the suburb where I live and we consolidated with another KH two towns north of here. No travel problems because it's only an extra 3 miles, and we traveled more than a mile as it was. But the decision included two factors. We could sell our local Hall for more money and use it to upgrade the other Hall, which is now central to 5 congregations (although it hasn't been used for months). The other reas
  16. A CO who talked to my father about a requested upgrade to the sound system in the KH and who recommended that this upgrade effort go towards a different need in the Norco Assembly Hall. I heard something like it from a trusted elder in NYC. He claims it's talk from "higher up," and I didn't press him.
  17. I started a thread about physical meeting attendance and zoom, and moved it here:
      Hello guest!
  18. But it was OK for the WTS to use Oracle and Delphi when they set up their accounting systems using an IDE with Object Pascal?
  19. It sounds like you are applying "conscience" to very mundane matters of getting along with others. You are then generalizing these mundane things so that they might apply loosely to matters of spirituality and "sin." Nothing wrong with that of course. It's also what many of Jesus' illustrations and parables do. But the mundane matters in themselves are not about conscience. If a brother wants a grey carpet in the new Kingdom Hall, and you want a beige carpet, it is not a matter of "conscience" for you to say OK to the grey. It's just a mundane decision. There are no grey areas of right an
  20. As an aside, here, I keep hearing more talk that the WTS is transitioning to no more KH at all, just assembly halls and larger conventions perhaps. It's not just us, but churches, too, have spoken about the success they have had with Zoom in terms of attendance. I fear that it would be a losing decision about the KH's if this rumor is true, but attendance numbers on Zoom have normalized and even risen for some churches. For us, I fear that less physical gathering would result in more drifting, too much video content, less local participation and enthusiasm. Even --dare I say it?-- more ma
  21. I liked your KH building experience. We've all had that experience when we would have made different decisions if we were in charge, and then we are glad we weren't. But I can't seem to fit your musing on conscience into what I thought was the most common use of the term "conscience" in the Bible. Of course, it might be right anyway, depending on what you mean by consequences. For example: Let's say that you would love the experience of eating roast beef a couple times a week, but depending on your location (and your time in history) the only viable source is the meat shop just outsi
  22. You accuse yourself. CC is right about the insinuation. You insinuated that someone committed a heinous crime, but without any basis or evidence. That's a lot different than insulting someone or accusing them of doing stupid things.
  23. I think this is a good idea. I see that many people have used the Weekly Study Materials, even some elders that I know. And at least one of those elders was getting them from a MS who emailed them to all the elders after getting them here. As unlikely as it seems to some, there is always a chance that certain persons will start to believe that this site, especially this forum, is somehow "supportive" of the WTB&TS when it clearly is not always supportive. You can't have an open forum anywhere that is always supportive, because a forum will (should) always be a discussion of pros and cons,
  24. I did no such thing. I teased him about a simple anachronism, because he mentioned a phrase like "C.O.s and D.O.s." Arauna chides me all the time for giving examples that go all the way back to the days of Russell, Rutherford, Franz and Knorr. But D.O.s are still fresh in our memory. Many of the talks I recall best were given by D.O.s.
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