JW Insider

Yes. I hadn't seen the "Believe in something" memes yet, so I hadn't recognized that this "meme" in the OP had two items that linked it to Nike, not just the "checkmark/wing" from the logo. Still, my surprise was that I happened to click on the post just seconds from when the notification came up, and so quickly the software had already pushed Nike links and competing sports ads onto the page. I realize that this is how some expensive web services can appear free, and I'm not at all irritated by it for myself. It bothers me a bit that people like children and elderly are not as aware about how their privacy can be invaded in nefarious ways, or that they might have given up protecting themselves at least mentally from the barrage of ads. To some young persons it's the new normal. With a Samsung Smart TV and a FireStick and Amazon Echo and Cortana, I'll not be surprised that I can mention a brand or product vocally and see an ad pop up for that item.

This makes perfect sense to me. And it should not cause us to disrespect the Governing Body. Jesus said that the stumbling blocks would surely come. Anyone at some time, could be a stumbling block, and they can also be forgiven. (Matthew 16:23) 23 But turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.” (Matthew 18:7) . . .Of course, it is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the man through whom the stumbling block comes! (Luke 17:1-4) 17 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. 3 Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother commits a sin, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 Even if he sins seven times a day against you and he comes back to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” (1 Corinthians 11:18, 19) 18 For first of all, I hear that when you come together in a congregation, divisions exist among you; and to an extent I believe it. 19 For there will certainly also be sects among you, so that those of you who are approved may also become evident. But teachers will receive heavier judgment because it is their job to keep the little ones from stumbling, like a good shepherd keeps the sheep on the right path to green pastures. Still, if our brother commits a sin that stumbles others --even a sin of pride, haughtiness and presumptuousness, or beating fellow slave -- we are still to rebuke that brother. If that brother is an elder or governing body member, this should make no difference, as we are not to show favoritism. However, we should still hold back and perhaps wait until the second offense before seeing to it that an accusation is lodged. (1 Timothy 5:1) 5 Do not severely criticize an older man. . . . (1 Timothy 5:17-19) 17 Let the elders who preside in a fine way be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. . . . 19 Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. This does not mean we should avoid our responsibility to rebuke a person who sins publicly, even if they be on the Governing Body. But we should present our evidence to the brother(s) first, before presenting it to the congregation. After all, we might easily be wrong, and they should have an opportunity to present counter-evidence or an explanation.

Of course it should include them. But it would give opposers ammunition if the writers of Watchtower articles ever took personal responsibility for things they said. So far, I have only seen one Watchtower writer take personal responsibility in a public way, and apologize for mistakes he made while in the Writing Department. And he didn't do this until after he was disfellowshipped. Whether it was the intention to have the public and other Witnesses conclude that the writers of Watch Tower publications were including themselves might become clearer if we look at a few more examples. I will just pick up a few more WT quotes that jwfacts.com had selected: These first two are with respect to the failed predictions about 1914: “There is no doubt that many throughout this period were overzealous in their statements as to what could be expected. Some read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended.” Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose p.52 “There were also other expectations concerning 1914. Alexander H. Macmillan, who had been baptized in September 1900, later recalled: "A few of us seriously thought we were going to heaven during the first week of that October. Had some been attracted by the thought of their own early salvation rather than love for God and a strong desire to do his will?” Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom p.61 The idea is clear that "some" were reading into Watch Tower statements things which the Watch Tower publications never intended. There will always be "some" truth to such a statement. Yet the Watch Tower statements, especially those from Circuit and District Assemblies of the time, had derided people as lacking faith, lacking trust in the Lord, if they did not read those intentions into their statements. The very motives of Watch Tower followers were questioned because they believed what the Watch Tower said. About "1975" it was already pointed out that the 1976 and 1977 responses never made any effort to clarify that WTS writers and leaders were to be included in the explanation of the mistake: If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” Watchtower 1976 Jul 15 p.441 Knowing that this was a missed opportunity, the Watch Tower Yearbook in 1980 finally added this about statements made during the 1979 summer conventions. (The brother who included this in the original talk outline was not disfellowshipped but was dismissed from Bethel later in 1980 possibly for admitting his beliefs about 1914 under interrogation): "The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, which acknowledged the Society's responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975." Yearbook 1980 pp.30-31 Then the Watchtower itself, just a few months later, said in the March 15, 1980 issue: There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility . It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated. In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: "If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone," The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date. The first quote about probabilities vs possibilities was an echo of talk surrounding the 1925 predictions, too. But it also reminds me of what Ray Franz says about recordings of the talks that Fred Franz had been giving, found here on page 13 of 17 in the pdf, http://web.archive.org/web/20031209184316/http://users.volja.net/izobcenec4/coc/9.pdf : In his talk, the vice president spoke of 1975 as a “year of great possibilities, tremendous probabilities.” He told his audience that, according to the Hebrew calendar, they were “already in the fifth lunar month of 1975,” with less than seven lunar months remaining. He emphasized several times that the Hebrew year would close with Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, on September 5, 1975.

Martin, mentioned above is a person who fits the criteria of a person who can't see the truth about Trinity even though some of his scholarly "friends" themselves had proved him wrong, and Witnesses right, on some points. Some of his work is dishonest, and he too selectively quotes his sources to make them seem to mean something they don't really mean.

You must be thinking of someone else. I think I know the incident you are thinking about but it's unrelated to Metzger. The WTS has come to appreciate Metzger now that they realize he is one of the most respected scholars who agrees with our take on the translation of all the questionable passages in the NT that are supposedly Trinitarian (except one). He is more recently referenced as a "Bible scholar" in the majority of cases, because he agrees with us in those cases. However, in those few cases where he disagrees, he is referenced in our publications as just a religious leader, trinitarian theologian, a seminary professor, and for some reason, even an "apostate" in one instance. The closest thing to the example you speak of is the fact that Metzger took exception to the supposed criteria by which the NWT committee added the name "Jehovah" in several places in the NT where the Biblical manuscript evidence only uses kyrios (Lord). He pointed out at least one inconsistency, which indicated to him, that we were not really serious about our claimed criteria. So in 1960, someone representing his position asked a question about that point for the "Questions From Readers" article in the Watchtower: *** w60 5/15 p. 318 Questions From Readers *** Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, a member of the faculty of Princeton, New Jersey, Theological Seminary, writes: “In the New World Translation it is stated (page 9 of New Testament volume), ‘To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as the context permitted.’ My question arises from the failure to abide by this self-imposed rule at Philippians 2:11, where the word kyrios, elsewhere rendered ‘Jehovah’ 237 times, is not rendered ‘Jehovah’ despite the clear allusion to Isaiah 45:23 and following where the word Jehovah appears. Could it be that the Arian theology of the translators overrode their expressed rule of translating?” Do you deem this inquirer’s question deserving of a sound and thorough reply?—U.S.A. The reply was actually in some ways embarrassing in that it mostly avoided the question and seemed to pretend that the actual question was something else. The response even included the claim that it was Dr. Metzger who had selectively quoted the criteria from the foreword of the NWT. The response is mostly a complete repetition of the criteria that Metzger had already questioned thoroughly, but the WT implies that he hadn't even read the criteria: If Dr. Metzger has read the Foreword of the above volume through, then he should have learned on what basis the New World translators restored the divine name, Jehovah, to the English translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Beginning on page 19, he should have read the following: . . . . . . This Foreword shows that in the course of time nineteen translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures, or of parts of them, have been made from the Greek into the ancient Biblical Hebrew, and that these Hebrew translators, including Professor Franz Delitzsch and also Dr. Isaac Salkinson and Dr. Christian David Ginsburg, used the name Jehovah or the Hebrew tetragrammaton (with vowel symbols) in translating the writings of Christ’s apostles and disciples, generally known as the New Testament. What Metzger undoubtedly knew and what the WT QFT response avoids admitting is that these very nineteen translations sometimes provided "damning" evidence that proved Metzger's point. Some even put their representation of the "Tetragrammaton" at that very spot in Philippians, because (for the most part) these 19 translations were not some evidence of Hebrew-Greek scholarship. Often they were just translations from Greek into Hebrew from Hebrew-speaking Trinitarian Christians who clearly wanted to make sure that Jesus was identified as the "replacement" of YHWH as Lord. At least one of those 19 translations was published by a "Trinitarian Bible Society." ---- Just an aside, but I just remembered. At Bethel, Brother Schroeder once saw me reading Bruce Metzger's "Lexical Aids for Students of New Testament Greek." (I still have it, and still think it is the absolute best way to quickly gain NT Greek vocabulary.) He gave me some books to replace it with because he specifically said that "Metzger had attacked us."

Privately, that old mariner knew he had to wear an albatross-like "A" around his neck. But he did not wear the "A" in public as a scarlet letter. Instead, just as with other times, the Watch Tower publications blamed the 'rank-and-file' for believing as they did. The next three of the following examples were picked by jwfacts.com at https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/blame-members.php : “It was stated in the 'Millions' book that we might reasonably expect them to return shortly after 1925, but this was merely an expressed opinion; besides it is still shortly after 1925. ... Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything.” Watch Tower 1926 pp.196,232 “So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: “1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the ‘ancient worthies’ [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being considered a ‘probability,’ they read into it that it was a ‘certainty,’ and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection.”” Yearbook 1975 p.146 “Ever since the 1870's, Bible Students had been serving with a date in mind - first 1914, then 1925. Now they realized that they must serve for as long as Jehovah wishes.” Watchtower 1993 Nov 1 p.12 That last one, in the image above from a 1920 Bulletin (later, Our Kingdom Ministry) shows that the same thing was done after the failure of the 1914 date expectations. To the public, the WTS had only delivered a prophecy that a world war would start in 1914. This, as you know, is so misleading as to be a complete falsehood. (You can also see where the expression "Stay alive til '75" was already foreshadowed 50 years earlier with the above: "and if you can keep alive until 1925. . .")

I've seen this to be true of many scholars, not true of the best scholars though. But I'd be careful about putting Metzger in that category. His personal beliefs appear to have changed over time due to his scholarship. It might be wrong, but I've read somewhere that Evangelical leaders tended to love him in the 1940's through the 1970's but began to see him more warily in later decades, until his death in 2007. Bart Ehrman, another famous Bible text scholar, who studied under him, claims to have lost his faith as an Evangelical while Metzger was his mentor.

I think it might be a good thing, up to a point, to have a sensitivity approaching bitterness. This would be especially true if we realize the depth of the loss of so many who went out from us. These "little ones" were truly stumbled, at least partly because many of us went along with a message that basically said the very thing that Christ warned us against. In this small way, we were being "anti-Christ." Christ had said, "If anyone says to you, 'The appointed time has approached' . . ., do not follow them." So, in 1973 we studied a book called "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached." In Russell's day, they often used a translation that said: "If anyone says to you, 'The time is at hand' . . . do not follow them." So Russell's second most famous book was called "The Time Is At Hand." Rutherford had done the same to an even greater degree with 1925. In effect, we as an organization had denied Christ 3 times. And what did Peter do when he realized the significance of his own three-time denial of Christ? (Matthew 26:75) 75 And Peter called to mind what Jesus had said, namely: “Before a rooster crows, you will disown me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly. (Matthew 18: 6-14) But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea. 7 “Woe to the world because of the stumbling blocks! Of course, it is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the man through whom the stumbling block comes! . . . 10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my Father who is in heaven. . . . 14 Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish. Bitterness of soul is also the appropriate response to loss of faithful ones, and the reproach of that same loss. (Micah 2:4-7) 4 In that day people will recite a proverb concerning you, And they will bitterly lament over you. They will say: “We are completely devastated! He caused the portion of my people to change hands—how he removes it from me! . . . 6 “Stop preaching!” they preach, “They should not preach these things; Humiliation will not overtake us!” 7 Is it being said, O house of Jacob: “Has the spirit of Jehovah become impatient? Are these his deeds?” Do not my own words bring good to those walking uprightly? (Ezekiel 21:6, 7) 6 “And you, son of man, sigh while you tremble, yes, sigh bitterly before them. 7 And if they say to you, ‘Why are you sighing?’ you will say, ‘Because of a report.’ For it will certainly come,. . . (Isaiah 22:4) That is why I said: “Turn your eyes away from me, And I will weep bitterly. Do not insist on comforting me Over the destruction of the daughter of my people. There are times when such bitterness of soul, if combined with compassion, is clearly better than those remarks that indicate that we are uncaring about such ones who went out from us because it was their own fault, or even showing that we despise these little ones by calling them anti-Christ. When Frederick Franz was pushing this 1975 agenda, he obviously knew that the biggest push-back to overcome would be that some of the brothers could use Jesus' own words against the idea, by saying that 'no one knows the day or the hour.' He had to "get out in front" of that objection, and he did it by trying to minimize Jesus' words in Matt 24:34. He may have been arguing that these words of Jesus no longer applied to us now that we had reached this new time period when, in his opinion, we so clearly do know concerning that day and hour: *** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? *** 1975! . . . AND FAR BEYOND! . . . The Watch Tower Society over the years has endeavored to keep its associates abreast with the latest scholarship that proves consistent with historic and prophetic events recorded in the Scriptures. Major problems in sacred chronology have been straightened out . . . . One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”! My own father was counseled and disciplined by the District Overseer for adding that same verse to a Circuit Assembly talk in St Louis, Missouri in 1970 (plus or minus six months). It tended to tamp down the excitement over 1975. I also had heard my own father give counsel to another elder (a returned Gilead missionary) about not getting overly excited over 1975, and this was on about January 2, 1975. The other elder actually thought my father was in the wrong and argued with him about it. (My father had hired the other elder who thought my father was somehow "ashamed of the good news" by not wanting people to know that "this was the year" in his own workplace.) Of course, all of this stuff specifically about 1975 and 1925 is nearly ancient history. Our real concern should be whether we are willing to be honest about it now, and just how alert we are now to follow the spirit of Jesus' words about not following those who claim they have some unique knowledge about the times and seasons. (And who therefore believe they have the special knowledge to say "the time is at hand" or "the due time has approached.") We are still in danger, of course, because there are many who would give the words of men a higher priority than Jesus' own words. And many of the brothers, even today, will look at the disastrously false and unscriptural "Millions" campaign and shrug it off with words about how at least it pushed them zealously to greater activity. In some ways, many of the brothers are just as anxious to push the same messages: *** w97 1/1 p. 11 par. 18 Let All Glorify Jehovah! *** In the early 1920’s, a featured public talk presented by Jehovah’s Witnesses was entitled “Millions Now Living Will Never Die.” This may have reflected overoptimism at that time. But today that statement can be made with full confidence. Even the "overlapping generation" doctrine is being tied to a time schedule as Brother Splane and others have pointed out that even the second group of overlappers are already getting very old and many are already dying out. As more of the older anointed brothers continue to die out, we are creating the same kind of time limit all over again to the date for Armageddon. At least internally, we should all be bitterly weeping at such things.

OK, I'll give you that one! But it's usually 'What can we glean from this scripture?"

I looked it up on google and it says there are 8 million results. The first 100 items returned (first 10 pages) have nothing to do with JW's. nGrams says the word has lost popularity in the last few decades. But there were plenty of modern entries: "5 ways to inculcate good eating habits" etc. I'm sure there's a medicine for people who suffer from chronic hyperbole syndrome. ?

I was only pithy because I thpilled the urine thample.

The daily text example was not as much of an echo of the "6,000 year" doctrine as other examples have been. But it's still not hard to see how so many of the references to and emphasis on 6,000 years still reverberates from the old 1975 issue. For one thing, we could compare it with another time expression: such as "2,000 years" ago. We know that this expression must be used a lot because there there are dozens of reasons to use this particular time expression, not just two or three with reference to "6,000 years" ago. It might be used when referring to the birth, life, ministry, words, death and resurrection of Jesus, or the time of the apostles and other Bible writers, or the completion of the Bible itself, or the age of the oldest known extant texts of the Bible, such as the "Dead Sea Scrolls." If we look at the Watchtower Library "DVD," which is now a free 2GB download from jw.org, we can see something interesting. Just look up the quoted phrases "6,000 years" and "six thousand years" and then compare this to "2,000 years" and "two thousand years." A quick click-through survey of a hundred or more examples of each tells a very interesting story. Over a long period, we get almost the same number of results for 6,000 years as we do for 2,000 years, but with much more consistent content in the 6,000 years examples. (Most of the 2,000 year examples are not specifically about Jesus, but about age of dead sea scrolls, when Paul wrote a specific verse, or the completion of the Bible canon.) But we can probably boil it down to the essence by looking at the numbers of references to each expression from the years 1968 to 1976, when it was NOT equal and we can pretty much know the reason for this without even looking. 6,000 yr 2,000 yr 1968 21 4 1969 16 5 1970 12 5 1971 6 1 1972 10 2 1973 7 3 1974 13 1 1975 22 7 1976 13 2 Now for just a few more recent examples: *** w18 January p. 26 par. 19 What Kind of Love Brings True Happiness? *** 19 After some 6,000 years of human misery, SatanÂ’s world is coming to its end. *** w12 9/15 Peace for a Thousand Years—And Beyond! *** [Study Questions] 1. What exciting prospect awaits the “great crowd”? 2. What have humans experienced during the past 6,000 years? 3. What will the Thousand Year Reign bring about? *** ws12 10/15 pp. 15-16 par. 2 Obey God and Benefit From His Sworn Promises *** The Bible does not tell us exactly when it started. But we know that it started sometime after AdamÂ’s wife, Eve, was created about 6,000 years ago. The thousand years of ChristÂ’s reign will soon begin, and during this time God will fulfill his purpose for the earth. God wants the earth to be a paradise where perfect humans can live forever. (Genesis 1:27, 28; Revelation 20:6) You can be sure that you can have that happy future! “God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.” This was a promise that no matter what happened, God would make sure that his purpose would come true by the end of his rest day. *** w10 1/15 p. 32 par. 18 JehovahÂ’s Way of Ruling Vindicated! *** And consider, Satan has been causing harm for some 6,000 years, but God, through Christ, will undo all that harm within 1,000 years! Many of the other dozens of references also mention that we've had six thousand years of human rule and therefore it's time for Christ's rule. True statement, but the connection of six thousand and one thousand recurs more often than not. What we do less of now is taking our supposed knowledge to the level of just showing off. We have no idea if our promoted chronology is exactly correct, and we know for a fact that most of the years through the Neo-Babylonian period do not match any of the evidence. Yet we would say things like this: *** w89 8/1 p. 10 par. 2 God Purposes That Man Enjoy Life in Paradise *** This occurred some 6,000 years ago, in the year 4,026 before our Common Era, according to the count of time given in the Holy Bible. It occurred in the land area of what is today known as Turkey, or in the southwestern part of what is now called Asia, somewhere in the neighborhood of the Euphrates River and the Tigris River, and thus in the northern half of our earthly globe. The time would be about October 1, since mankindÂ’s most ancient calendars began counting time near that date. Really? October 1st? This is what I meant by "gnosis" or "falsely called knowledge." We don't really know if 4026 BCE is right, much less October 1. This itself echoes the presumptuous way that the earlier Watch Tower publications speak of chronology, such as in the May 1881 issue referred to recently: The favor of the present (and which we believe will end in October, 1881) is not to the nominal church but to individuals in her, that they may come out and receive the present Lord. . . . Now, it was on the strength of this prophetic "shadow"which shows that the "door" would not close until this fall, that we said, the living would not be changed before that time. As to when our change is due we can only say: To our understanding it will be due at any time after October 2nd, 1881 . . . Really? Not a minute before October 2nd? *** w79 9/15 p. 24 par. 11 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at GodÂ’s Hand *** But the reason simply is that about October 4/5, 1914, or 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem after the Babylonian conquest, the Gentile Times of uninterrupted world domination ended. Jehovah God did not then set up at earthly Jerusalem “JehovahÂ’s throne” for an earthly heir of King David to occupy it, thus reviving the typical earthly kingdom of God. *** w75 11/1 p. 661 par. 15 The Time for Choosing God as Sovereign *** since the year 1914 C.E. In that year “the times of the Gentiles,” or, “the appointed times of the nations,” ended about October 4/5, when counted from the desolation of Jerusalem and the land of Judah by the Babylonians in the year 607 B.C.E. Really? October 4/5, 1914 was 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem? We can't even find evidence for the year 607 B.C.E. and yet we want to put a specific day which happens not to even coincide with Jerusalem's destruction, where all the known evidence, Biblical and secular, points to the summer of about 587 B.C.E. Â

For anyone who might have missed the joke I was (and therefore now you, too, are) referring to, it was here: Jehovah's Witnesses Hierarchical View of Everyone James Thomas Rook Jr. replied to Jack Ryan's topic in Jehovah's Witnesses ...and on the bottom is a label that says "Urine samples ", which my wife did not see, 'cause it was on the bottom. She wrote a very nasty letter to the Betty Crocker cake mix people. ..... apologies to TBBT, and Sheldon Cooper

I guess it depends on how seriously we consider "honesty" and "truth" to be in our teaching: (1 Timothy 4:15, 16) 15 Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, so that your advancement may be plainly seen by all people. 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you. (Philippians 4:-8) .5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. . . . 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, . . . continue considering these things. (Proverbs 14:25) . . .A true witness saves lives,. . . (2 Timothy 2:18) 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, . . . and they are subverting the faith of some. (James 3:1-5) 3 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment. . . . . 5 So, too, the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it makes great brags. See how small a fire it takes to set a great forest ablaze! (John 4:22-24) . . .. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 14:15-17) . . .. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. (Psalm 40:10, 11) . . .I do not hide your loyal love and your truth in the great congregation.” 11 O Jehovah, do not withhold your mercy from me. May your loyal love and your truth constantly safeguard me. (Psalm 51:6) 6 Look! You find pleasure in truth in the inner person; Teach my innermost self true wisdom. If a person is stating something that's untrue, then, yes, it's true that they might just be stating a falsehood that they believe to be true. But in that case what is the reason for the lack of care, the lack of attempted verification, the reason for the willingness to believe something false when it often would have been no trouble at all to make a true statement in its place. Is there a motive that tends to make someone blame others when they themselves are to blame? Is there a motive for a string of repeated falsehoods, even when the person believed each falsehood to be true at the time. Should we learn from our mistakes? Is it worse if the promoter of their own private interpretations of scripture is forced to defend against clear scriptural counsel in order to continue promoting a private interpretation of scripture. If this type of dishonesty keeps happening, even though it requires kicking against the goads, then there is likely a problem worth looking into.

To most it just means that we have faith in the Slave that they will not ask us to do anything unreasonable, even though they have asked us to obey in the future even if it does seem unreasonable. I don't think they will ask us to do anything more unreasonable than some of the unreasonable requests on blood doctrine inconsistencies, organ transplants, divorce for "spiritual" adultery (but not for areas of immorality they have not yet defined under the scope of porneia), etc. They will, evidently, ask us to believe things that are unreasonable or even patently untrue. Men in leadership positions can't usually go more than a few weeks without needing someone to believe something that isn't reasonable or true. That's also the nature of human leadership. That seems to get worse with committees as often as it gets better.

I used to watch sports a bit but have lost interest now that I'm retired. But the company I worked for was a major sponsor for the U.S.Open, both golf and tennis, so I went to plenty of those particular matches for about 20 years running because they always had lots of free unused tickets. Now my daughter and son-in-law are stepping into my tennis shoes with a different company that she works for. My wife and I babysat for them so that they could go on Tuesday night to see Serena Williams and Nadal -- two of their favorite players. Her interview speech on Tuesday after the match wasn't much of a "witness" but she did dress a bit more modestly (except for the price of the outfit). In the conversation, that's me in blue. They loved the matches.

Russell himself said he was ashamed of Second Adventism with all its false predictions. He was embarrassed by the Adventists yet he took little else from them besides their chronology. From the start, he was drawn to their chronology system. He often claimed that he was not so interested in the chronology but focused on Christian character instead, yet he made belief in the updated Second Adventist chronology the single criteria that separated the Foolish Virgins from the Wise Virgins. Here's an example of the kind of dishonesty I refer to that always seems to accompany the topic of chronology in every religion that focuses on it. It goes all the way back to the first few months of Watch Tower publications: Here are some statements from the January 1881 Watch Tower magazine: This is a question doubtless that many ask themselves, viz: "How soon will our change come?" This change many of us have looked forward to for years, and we yet with much pleasure, think of the time when we shall be gathered unto Jesus and see Him as he is. In the article concerning our change, in December paper, we expressed the opinion that it was nearer than many supposed, and while we would not attempt to prove our change at any particular time, yet we propose looking at some of the evidences which seem to show the translation or change from the natural to the spiritual condition, due this side or by the fall of our year 1881. The evidence that our change will be by that time, increases since we have seen that the change to spiritual bodies is not the marriage. While we thought the marriage to be the change, and knowing there was three and a half years of special favor to the Nominal Church (now left desolate) from 1878, we could not expect any translation this side of 1881, or during this three and a half years. But since we recognize that going into the marriage is not only being made ready (by recognizing His presence) for the change, but also, that going in includes the change itself, then the evidences that we go in (or will be changed) inside of the time mentioned are strong, and commend themselves to all interested as worthy of investigation. Aside from any direct proof that our change is near, the fact that the manner of the change can now be understood, is evidence that we are near the time of the change, for truth is "meat in due season," and understood only as due. It will be remembered that after the spring of 1878, (when we understand Jesus was due as King) that the subject of holiness or the wedding garment, was very much agitated. And aside from the parallel to the end of the Jewish age, and favor at that time being shown to the Jewish nation, which implied the presence of the King, the consideration of the wedding garment, was also proof of the correctness of the application, for "the King had come in to see the guests," [Matt. 22:11] and hence all were interested in knowing how they stood before Him. Now as the inspection of guests is the last thing prior to our change, which precedes the marriage and we are all now considering the change. It would seem that the time for it, is nigh. We shall now present what we adduce from the types and prophetic points as seeming to indicate the translation of the saints and closing of the door to the high calling by 1881. . . . [skipping a large portion on these evidences, some of which were considered "proofs" of 1874 that evidenced the correctness of 1881.] If this be a correct application (and it seems harmonious) and the time of building is seven years, then we would expect our change by or before the fall of 1881, as from 1874 to then would be the time given for building. . . . by coming into a knowledge of the Bridegroom's presence, etc., during the seven years harvest [from 1874 to 1881] . . . and as the seven years are about complete, that we will soon follow by being changed. Matt. 25 and the parallelism of the Jewish and Gospel ages, seem to teach that the wise of the virgins "who are alive and remain" must all come in, to a knowledge of the bridegroom's presence, by the fall of 1881, when the door—opportunity to become a member of the bride—will close. . . . We suggest as quite possible, that the change may come to some prepared before that time. . . . "Yet seven days [years] and I will cause it to rain upon the earth," should be significant, because we have expected trouble, in a special sense, about 1881, and, according to the type, we must enter in by that time. . . . We used to think it would be in the midst of a great trouble that we would be changed, but now we do not. . . . If the three years mentioned in connection with Aaron has any bearing, then it would teach our change as coming this side of 1881, as three years from 1878 would bring us inside of that time. . . . We now have taken prophetic measurements and allegories together, [R182 : page 5] five different points seeming to teach the resurrection of the dead in Christ and change of the living between the fall of 1874 and 1881. Two or more witnesses are enough to prove any case, as a rule, and certainly God has given us abundant evidence. We are also glad to notice that all these things only corroborate previous truths, thus proving to a certainty each application as correct and causing the old jewels to shine brighter. The five lines of argument briefly stated are these: 1st. The days of Daniel ending in 1874, at which time the resurrection commenced, and since which, the dead have been going in to the marriage. 2d. The end of the seven years from that time, as marked by the parallel, of the end of the "seventy weeks" in the Jewish age ending in our year 1881, at which time we all should be in and the door closed, being the end of time of special favor to the nominal church before commencement of trouble which follows our change. [skipping more, etc. etc. etc.] There are some cautionary statements built into the article, and statements that this is not proof, just evidence. But note what is done with the evidence. Intelligently-minded people know what this evidence means. And spiritually-minded people know that the faithful and wise servant is providing "food at the proper time" [meat in due season] and that this is the proper time for wise virgins to distinguish themselves from foolish virgins. Also, all this evidence is only evidence on its own, but as it adds up, it becomes "proof" to those who appreciate that God is giving us this evidence in abundance, and that even two of these five lines of evidence should therefore constitute enough to "prove any case" as a rule. Here are some statements from the May 1881 Watch Tower magazine, p.224, on the same topic, now that the time for hesitation was due: The WATCH TOWER never claimed that the body of Christ will be changed to spiritual beings during this year. There is such a change due sometime. We have not attempted to say when, but have repeatedly said that it could not take place before the fall of 1881. This was a true statement. The Watch Tower had not claimed that the body of Christ will be changed in 1881, only that the evidence about 1881 should be seen as proof by intelligent and spiritually minded persons who have a true faith and appreciation for God's truths. From this point forward, after failure was obvious, it would be easy to cherry-pick quotes that showed that no one had specifically said it would happen by the fall of 1881 -- even though it was supposed to obvious that for some it would likely happen even before the fall of 1881. But even this is just technicalities and semantics. It's true that they hadn't said it would definitely happen. Still, there is dishonesty in the attempt to sweep all the embarrassment away. It's in the phrase: "We have not attempted to say when . . ." Is this a true statement? Was there really no attempt to say when the change would take place? That previous article on the topic of when, in January 1881 --only four months earlier-- might as well have been called "When Will the Change Take Place?" It was nothing if not an attempt to say when! The claim might be technically true. But is it honest?

Curious that this post instantly triggers an advertisement related to sports and running for me. And the related posts listed on the page are as follows, all about Nike, even though the post never says the word Nike anywhere: Similar Content Nike Is Joining the United States of Amazon By Nicole If you thought Amazon’s retail domination would slow down any time soon, you were mistaken. ... Nike Reveals the ‘Pro Hijab’ for Muslim Athletes By Nicole Nike, a company whose brand is estimated to be worth $27 billion, understands the difference apparel can make to an athlete. And like any viable... Apple’s New Nike Watch Will Harass You Into Running By Nicole At today’s live Apple event, the fruit unveiled the iPhone 7, Apple Watch Series 2, and the Apple Watch Nike+. ...

Fred Franz was called the "Oracle" even while I was there at Bethel, although it was with the utmost respect until about 1978 when I first heard it used sarcastically. His very odd demeanor, and his own sarcastic and pontificating haughty manner, made him considered to be the channel of all "new truths" at the time. Knorr deferred to him to write his speeches. No "deep" book on prophecy could be written by anyone else even long after the failure of 1975 was obvious. No one would write on any prophetic subject (OT prophecy or Revelation) of any length without using Franz' previous writing as a basis. No one has really tried to replace "Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand" yet, and it's going on 30 years since he died. I worked directly with (for) Brother Schroeder when he as good as admitted that he wanted to be the next Fred Franz, assuming Fred Franz did not outlive him. Of course, that meant removing Raymond Franz who was the obvious but unassuming heir apparent. He privately expressed jealousy that Raymond Franz had worked on the Aid book. Schroeder tried his hand at coming up with "new truths" when he went abroad, especially his yearly trips to Europe. He came up with several ideas that would have been considered apostasy if promoted by anyone else, and nearly got in big trouble himself. He looked for areas where he could make his mark that he was "like" Fred Franz. I don't know him, but I think there is talk that Brother Splane should now be seen as the primary one who needs to approve prophetic explanations. But fortunately it does not seem like he is involved exclusively as Fred Franz was. The committee is much safer.

True, but they were not even candid about this until 1988. The "candid" letter of 1977 never even mentioned "some Bible teachers." It was quite similar to the counsel the previous year: *** w76 7/15 p. 440 A Solid Basis for Confidence *** BE CAREFUL TO KEEP A BALANCED VIEW 10 Jehovah’s word or message is true when it speaks about our entering into God’s rest now and remaining in it through the “great tribulation,” after which Christ’s thousand-year reign will transform the earth into a paradise garden. God’s word is indeed ‘sharp like a two-edged sword.’ It will show what we really are, revealing what our thoughts and the intentions of our heart are. Are we serving Jehovah God because we love him, trust him and have full confidence in what he says? Or are we ‘becoming weary in well-doing,’ looking for a certain date primarily as bringing a relief to ourselves, with little concern for the lives of other people? (Gal. 6:9) Are we appreciative of all the good things we have had from Jehovah and from association with his people? Have not the things we have learned helped us in our family lives? Do we not love the many genuine friends we have now gained as a result of knowing the truth?—Mark 10:29, 30. 11 It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bible’s warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date. 12 What do Jesus’ own words show concerning the proper attitude as to the end—to look for a date, or what? He said: “Pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. For it will come in upon all those dwelling upon the face of all the earth. Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man.”—Luke 21:34-36. 13 Did Jesus mean that we should adjust our financial and secular affairs so that our resources would just carry us to a certain date that we might think marks the end? If our house is suffering serious deterioration, should we let it go, on the assumption that we would need it only a few months longer? Or, if someone in the family possibly needs special medical care, should we say, ‘Well, we’ll put it off because the time is so near for this system of things to go’? This is not the kind of thinking that Jesus advised. It was blamed on the selfishness of brothers looking for their own relief, some who had a mistaken view, but these "some" people obviously missed the point of the Bible's warnings due to their own "thinking" that Bible chronology reveals the specific date. This is why I brought up the question of "honesty" in the title of another 1975 topic. Because the Society was willing to conceal their own responsibility for several years, evidently to avoid embarrassment, many brothers were very quick to follow their lead and also avoid embarrassment, claiming that they were never fooled into such wrong thinking. I noticed that by 1977, even brothers who cashed in insurance policies, put off dental work, went into debt, and even some who sold their houses in 1973 through 1975 quickly claimed that they never bought into all that talk about 1975. Within a few short years after 1980, I heard brothers begin claiming that there never was a 1975 problem except for just a few disgruntled brothers and ex-brothers who had been serving Jehovah with a date in mind. Even now, I have very close Witness relatives in responsible positions who lived through it but now believe that the Society "never really said anything about 1975," and that it was started by some of the brothers on their own.

I would, but Jubilee math gets so complicated, as the Insight book shows: *** it-1 p. 1200 Inheritance *** The sale of land was, in effect, only the leasing of it for the value of crops it would produce, the purchase price being on a graduated scale according to the number of years until the next Jubilee, at which time all land possession would revert to the original owner if it had not been repurchased or redeemed prior to the Jubilee. I heard that @James Thomas Rook Jr. has a graduated scale that he might loan me, but I think he said it's for measuring urine samples.

A 1988 Yearbook example from one representative country explains it pretty well: *** yb88 pp. 189-191 *** All seemed well in the spring of 1975. The Bethel family moved into their spacious new facilities, and Brother Lloyd Barry visited . . . to give the dedication talk. The 1975 service year ended with an outstanding field report—including 8,120 baptized that year. Thus, in just three years’ time 19,600 were baptized. Well over half of the . . . Witnesses had been in the truth for less than three years. However, the first few months of the 1976 service year began with a marked decrease in publishers and home Bible studies. This downward trend was to continue for over three years, bottoming out in a 26-percent decrease in publishers, from 32,693 in August 1975 to 24,285 in November 1978. Memorial attendance dropped too, from over 68,000 in 1975 to 49,545 in 1978 [27 percent drop]. The brothers at the branch were perplexed. Would the trend be reversed? Of course, neither they nor the Society were just letting it slide by. The Society’s letter of April 4, 1977, stated: "We hope the brothers are careful in their teaching. Evidently some were very strong on the 1975 date, and so a good foundation was not laid. The foundation, of course, should be faith in Christ Jesus and the ransom sacrifice, and the dedication should be with understanding.” A very candid observation indeed! Too much emphasis was placed on a date by some Bible teachers. Many newly baptized ones took up the truth on a wave of emotion. Even some elders had their hopes pinned to 1975. . . . The effect: apathy among the brothers. THE ROAD BACK, LONG BUT CERTAIN More than 24,000 Witnesses, solid in the faith, were not shaken by any date. Still, the road back to a new peak of publishers was to take eight long years and was not reached until August 1983. Very "candidly," the Society was still blaming the problem on "some Bible teachers." And the fact that newly baptized ones had taken up "the truth" based on a wave of emotion over a current falsehood. And the fact that even some elders had their hopes pinned to 1975. But if you look carefully, none of that was said in the 1977 letter, which only blamed it on the fact that "some were very strong on the 1975 date." Even the historical rewrite of this letter appearing in the 1988 Yearbook never blames it on the source, just some Bible teachers, some newly baptized ones, and some elders.

There are, of course. There have been several references as late as 1989 that, as Witnesses, we are involved in a work that will end before the end of the twentieth century (before 2000/2001). This time prediction became obsolete only about 18 years ago, and the predictions for such a date continued until 1989. "Echos" of that prediction continued until about 1993. -- I grabbed the following from https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/20th-century-2000.php The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." Watchtower 1984 Mar 1 pp.18-19 "Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!" "Let Your Kingdom Come" (1981) p.102 But now in our 20th century, we have come to the time for harvest, "a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels"! Watchtower 1989 Jan 1 p.12 "He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." And there is still a more subtle kind of obsession among some brothers who think it is important for us to consider that we are "some 6,000 years" removed from human perfection in Eden. In fact it was the opening line of today's "Text." *** Text for Friday, September 7, 2018 *** We must consider that all of us are some 6,000 years removed from the human perfection that existed in Eden. Although the fact might be interesting, what is it that makes this particular number of years something that we "must consider"? There is nothing in the Bible, no evidence anywhere, that this particular number of years has any significance. Yet, most JWs are at least vaguely aware that it is used as a "sign" that we are deep into the end. We are led to believe that there is some kind of gnostic privilege that only Witnesses truly know the significance of. Yet there is only one reason why 6,000 specifically is considered. It is because, without any Bible evidence, we have taught that the 7th creative day should be 7,000 years long, and that Christ's millennial reign must punctuate this 7th creative day, and therefore begin 6,000 years after the creation of Eve in Eden. Using the 6,000 years as a gnostic sign that the end is upon is has been part of the Watchtower's doctrines since the 1800's when the Watchtower first started to be published. The "Photo Drama of Creation" also made a point of showing how each creative day was 7,000 years long, and the 7th creative day would end with Christ's Millennium, and thus the Millennium had "dawned" at the 48,000th year from the start of creation, which had just passed in 1873. The end of the 49,000 years would start a Great Jubilee of perfection. None of this is Biblical, but pieces of it are still echoed in the focus on the idea that we are now "some 6,000" years after Eden, and that this is something we "must consider." The "Proclaimers" book adds: *** jv chap. 8 p. 104 Declaring the Good News Without Letup (1942-1975) *** The Witnesses had long shared the belief that the Thousand Year Reign of Christ would follow after 6,000 years of human history. But when would 6,000 years of human existence end? The book Life Everlasting—In Freedom of the Sons of God, released at a series of district conventions held in 1966, pointed to 1975. The book "Life Everlasting" just mentioned had said on page 28 and 30: According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. . . . How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath. . . . It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible as the reign of Christ Jesus over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. So, for as long as the idea is put out there that we "must consider" the significance of 6,000 years, it will always carry with it this same idea found in one of the Awake! articles leading up to 1975: *** g68 10/8 p.14 What Will the 1970s Bring? There is another way that helps confirm that we are living in the final years of this "time of the end." The Bible shows that we are nearing the end of a full 6,000 years of human history. That statement is meaningless unless combined with the non-Biblical gnosis about a conjectured 7,000-year-long 7th day.

In my own experience, I was born in '57, baptized 10 years later, and had to read the "Life Everlasting" book as one of the two books assigned for baptismal candidates, along with the "Lamp" book questions. I auxiliary pioneered for several months in 1972, and quit school to regular pioneer for 3.5 years from 1973 until leaving for Brooklyn Bethel, where I worked full-time for 4 years, and then part-time, on projects, for another two while going to college in NYC. I give this portion of my "resume" only because I can speak to the experience of being baptized prior to 1975, and was part of the Bethel build-up from the influx of workers and financial contributions that Bethel received around 1975. I pioneered for several years both before and after 1975. Your experience may vary, but I can still tell you pretty much what I was thinking just prior to 1975, because I had to clear my plans with my parents, my school, and two circuit overseers, since I quit school while I was still 15 to begin regular pioneering in 1973.

@Space Merchant, @Anna @James Thomas Rook Jr., et al. With near unanimous approval (thanks, Anna!) I have moved some of the portions of this topic that dealt with 1975 to another topic, here: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/69838-1975-was-in-the-past-are-we-honest-about-it-today/?tab=comments#comment-106775 I think there was another post in another recent topic that I might move over there, too, because it also seemed out of place in its current location. A few of the responses here might not make perfect sense any more now that a few posts have been moved.