SuzA

Awwww....  so  heart-touching ❤

I don't think Lloyd meant he would change his belief about the Trinity, but quite the opposite, if I read his post correctly.

The picture is obviously a "photoshop". No real worshiper of Jehovah would make such a mark on their bodies. The marking of Gods people is a figurative, spiritual marking. Not a literal one. Perhaps the picture could be taken as a kind of warning for us though. We are to be loyal to Jehovah and His son Jesus in the Heavens. As far as the Earthly organization that we are a part of goes... It is merely a slave of our Creator. They only use technology and their imperfect best wits along with sincere prayer and deep Bible study to help us to improve our relationship with Jehovah. Any logos they have made are just that - logos. We don't want to put those logos up on high. They just help us to remember where to find help in learning of Jehovah and His purposes. We need to be careful to not let these logos and media aids (such as the cartoon characters Caleb and Sophia) on the Bible teaching web site jw.org NOT become "images to which we offer worshipful devotion. Imperfect Humans tend to wrongly set up physical icons to represent God. God has said: 'DON'T DO THAT'. That is why Jehovah took Moses' body and buried it secretly... So the Isrealites wouldn't try to make a shrine of Moses' grave. Our devotion is to Jehovah God DIRECTLY. JW.org helps us to do that. WE MUST BE CAREFUL to not render worship to JW.org.

For those of you who think this person is sincere, think again.  This is illustrating absurdity by being absurd. They are trying to make the point that you are branded like slaves to an organization, not to God.  I'm at least thankful that this was rejected completely by the commenters.  With what I've seen with JW.org logos recently, I wasn't so sure people wouldn't think this was a good idea.  

Hello, Crystal,
May I ask you if you are a baptized witness of Jehovah? It is clear from your post that you have a love for Jehovah, and that you wish your boyfriend to share that love also. That is a fine quality. As the above posters have shared their sincere hopes, and suggestions with you, please know that we all have your safety, growing faith in Jehovah , and your continued faith and knowledge in all thing spiritual in our hearts for you. It seems as though your boyfriend must be cultivating his own spiritual interest also.
Maybe you have an older sister that you, as a youngster, asked many questions to which you  thought you already knew the answer. The answer to your questions sometimes did not agree with what you had previously thought. You probably spent time pondering and thinking about what you were told by her. After some time, as you continued to age you began to change your viewpoint, and realized that what your sister told you was correct, and that as you grew older you saw the wisdom you exhibited by listening to her counsel. We all were babes when we first began to learn about Jehovah, and what we can do to please him. And, Jehovah is very patient with us. He knows our hearts, and that we are learning to please him,
Please allow me to share with you some points of research that  I was happy to learn, and hope that you will be also.
 

I totally agree with you brother.  Going over your posts, I noticed some concerns of yours are global, some local.  But just like in he first century, the apostle Peter said: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life..."  (John 6:68) Today, no other organization is as close to Jehovah than the JWs.  And blessed too despite the numerous "imperfections".  Let's stick together and look forward to a brand New World!  Cheers.... 

@ Jay Witness The main thing they said was: "Our thoughts are with his family and friends, particularly his fellow worshippers... in the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Minnesota [where he attended]. We hope that all find comfort in the Bible’s promise of a future time when death, pain, and tears will be no more.—Revelation 21:3, 4."
The JW brothers acknowledge not knowing the details surrounding this mans death. Their main point was acknowledging the family he left behind. They were not not giving him undue praise.
These words about Satan really do apply. (And they can also apply to many who follow Satan in the way he continually makes his ACCUSATIONS): Revelation 12:10, 11: "And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the ACCUSER of our brothers has been hurled down, who ACCUSES them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death."
Since Prince has widely been known as one of our group of fellow worshipers and so well known to millions in the world, it obviously was decided that at least a brief statement should be made. We don't feel that he deserved any more recognition than any other of our brothers. But we also don't want to appear calloused (Since he was so well known).
That being said... You obviously look to find ANYTHING AT ALL to accuse our brothers of... Just like "your father, the Devil." - John 8:44,45

(Exodus 6:2) Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but with regard to my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.
(Exodus 20:7) “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave unpunished the one who takes up His name in a worthless way.
(Isaiah 12:2) Look! God is my salvation. I will trust and feel no dread; For Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, And he has become my salvation.”
(Isaiah 42:8) I am Jehovah. That is my name; I give my glory to no one else, Nor my praise to graven images.
(Isaiah 43:10) “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.(Isaiah 43:12) “I am the One who declared and saved and made known When there was no foreign god among you. So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God.  (We  can witness for his name, live up to it, and use it descriptively for our group of worshippers.)
Don't think anyone in the time of the Israelites would have dared to. Even in Jesus's day they would not pronounce the Divine Name because they thought it too holy.
We have more knowledge today about the meaning of the name (even though we don't know the correct Hebrew pronunciation). They are a lot of persons today (especially of the Rastafarian faith) with the abbreviated part of His name, Jah, added to their name as a prefix or suffix. However, I don't think anyone will dare use Jehovah as their personal name.
Don't forget we too bear God's name as his witnesses (see Isaiah 43:12). We understand his uniqueness and loftiness, so we won't even think of using it as a personal name. We are encouraged to imitate him as beloved children; yet we know that no imperfect person can even approach Him without the covering of his Son's ransom. We don't want to be like him in the way that Satan and Eve tried to be, either; taking anything unique to Him, including privileges and worship that don't belong to us.
 Whether persons attempt to use the name as a personal name or not, Jehovah is able to protect it and his reputation.
N.B. Jah and Jehovah are anglicized renditions of the Divine Name,  יהוה (YHWH)
 

A sin? that's debatable. However, it seems inappropriate. The divine name is incorporated in the names of many of the characters in the Bible record, but I am unaware of anyone being given or taking taking the sole name of Jehovah for themselves. Perhaps if they had we would have a better idea of it's original pronunciation...... 

I use a similar line of reasoning. Since Satan was in heaven and speaking directly with God (eg. re: Job) it's a given  from first person experience, that he would know the nature of God and Jesus. Therefore would it make any sense for Satan to try to tempt Jesus to be disloyal to God if he thought Jesus was God himself?  It would lead to the absurd conclusion that he was trying to get God should be disloyal to himself. What would the sovereign and creator of the universe have to gain by now being subservient to Satan? Not to mention the pain and suffering he would knowingly be inflicting on all his creation. The temptation scenario only makes sense if Satan (correctly) understood that Jesus was lower than Almighty God and was attempting to challenge Jehovahs right to rule by having Jesus perform an act of obedience to Satan. 

Hmm. Looks reasonably adequate just about. Bit like a hotel room, easy to clean. Wonder what standard is like if that's luxury? 

Wow!!  Where do you live?????

@Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης,
I do not know any specifics of your particular situation or the situation in your congregation. No matter what the case, Jehovah knows your heart, and no humans or organization actually holds the final word of judgment. What I can say is that I'm aware of why there was a time when we once announced the reasons for disfellowshipping or disassociation. Then it turned into "conduct unbecoming a Christian" or "so-and-so no longer wishes to be associated . . . " often with a related talk given within a week or so, designed to remind the congregation of the need to remain morally clean, and the specific worldly or immoral elements the congregation had shown vulnerability to were usually emphasized. 
It should be obvious why this has changed. We do not wish to embarrass the person over a specific wrong or reason that they may later wish the congregation had no specific knowledge about. Most persons disfellowshipped are somewhere in a process of repentance. The elders do not believe the process is ever perfect, but they especially do not want to create a situation where a person might regret having everyone else know what weaknesses they overcame. There are issues of fairness and justice to consider when a congregation may know all about one party in a wrongdoing but nothing about a second party to the same wrongdoing.
I don't think I need to spell out all the ways that one person may be hurt more deeply due to the unfairness of allowing a different level of information for two different persons where the wrongdoing may have been equal. The other side of that coin, is the case where two persons were involved in the same wrongdoing, but one person was much guiltier than the other, yet the announcement sounds pretty much the same for both. The best solution has appeared to be the minimization of all announcements, allowing persons to keep more privacy and dignity.
Perhaps in your case, you wish to "give a witness" about why you are choosing to disassociate. Because you have been a Witness, your motivation is understandable, but you are asking for an opportunity to explain yourself in ways that might be considered detrimental to the spiritual well-being of the congregation. The elders are there to take care of the spiritual interests of the whole congregation. Most persons do not join a Christian congregation to get a sermon from someone who disagrees with the teachings that they joined to hear more about. You don't go to a meeting to have your belief system torn down, but to be built up. If you feel you have important points to make, why not write a book, or write to elders, or branch personnel, or go on the Internet, so that the congregation in general will have a choice as to what kind of information they risk exposing themselves to.
 
 

I looked at several of your posts and some of them appear to take outdated issues, or overblown issues, and treat them as if they are currently having a direct effect on people. I think Melinda Mills pointed out that you were making an issue out of a prior incorrect view on the exact definition of porneia. But this issue would usually only have been of a practical concern for a few months before the wrong idea was corrected. (Edited to add: the issue arising from an improper understanding had been there for many years, but I'm told that it was rarely invoked, and a big issue was only being made out this for a few months, and that it was the very raising of the issue that also helped raise concerns about changing the practice.) Similar issue with being disfellowshipped over transplanted organs. I had specifically asked a person who would have known about all the decisions about disfellowshipping over that issue, and he told me it only happened a couple of times. (There is a tendency to be lenient when a person is suffering and might die from a rejection anyway. Also there was a strong belief in those days that even if a blood transfusion was not necessary for an organ transplant, that you had to agree to the possibility of accepting one, which is still a serious offense.)
At any rate, what is the rush to disassociate? Can you not find love in the brotherhood? Do you personally have to think of humans as your "mediators"? I believe there is room for a lot more diversity of thought, as long as you can keep a clean conscience, and avoid causing divisions by insisting on a view that others find unacceptable. Over time, many of the views that opposers have held, have finally been accepted. We are not here strictly for a set of doctrines, we are here to find opportunities to love and care for our friends, relatives, family, and extend that same love to those related to us in the faith (our spiritual brothers and sisters). 
 

*** w03 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
If a Christian hears voices, does that necessarily mean that he is under demon attack?
No. While demons have been reported to manifest themselves in that way, many individuals who hear voices or experience other inexplicable, disturbing sensations have learned upon investigation that they have a medical problem.
Even in the first century, it was apparently recognized that demon attacks and physical conditions sometimes produce similar effects. At Matthew 17:14-18, we read of a young boy who was healed by Jesus. Although the young boy had manifested severe epileptic symptoms, his suffering was actually caused by a demon. However, on an earlier occasion when crowds of suffering people were brought to Jesus for healing, these included some who were “demon-possessed and epileptic.” (Matthew 4:24) Evidently, it was recognized that some epileptics were not demon possessed. Their problems were physical.
It is reported that some who suffer from schizophrenia, a disease often treatable with medication, hear voices or experience other symptoms that could appear to be something uncanny. Other physical conditions may also cause mental confusion that some could mistakenly think is caused by demons. Hence, while an individual who reports hearing voices or who has other disturbing sensations may not want to discount demon harassment, he should definitely be encouraged to consider investigating whether there is a physical explanation for what he is experiencing.
[Footnote]
See “Taking the Mystery out of Mental Illness,” in the September 8, 1986, Awake!, companion magazine of The Watchtower.
(Matthew 17:14-21) 14 When they came toward the crowd, a man approached him, knelt down to him, and said: 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, because he is an epileptic and is ill. He falls often into the fire and often into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him.” 17 In reply Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me.” 18 Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured from that hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said: “Why could we not expel it?” 20 He said to them: “Because of your little faith. For truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.” 21 ——
 

I have an Iraqi/Kurdish study - the men in the Middle East control the women to an extreme degree. They are belongings to sell.   After my study's divorce (she was granted a divorce on account of her husband's violence toward her),  her husband left US to go back to Iraq because he did not want to pay child support.  (He had previously threatened to kill her with a gun and the children called the police.... ) 
Back in Iraq he wanted his ex-wife dead.  So he tried to hire friends here in America to kill his ex-wife because he wanted to abduct the eldest daughter.  He needed money and wanted to "sell" her to someone so that he could get the bride-price..... The daughter was not yet 12 years old.  Somehow the police found out about this and came to see her.  She showed me a copy of the police report. 
Her brothers in Germany at present want her to come to Germany so they can control her.  They do not want her to live in America in freedom.  She has cut off all contact with them.
She herself was a very young bride.  Her father needed money for her brother who was in trouble and "sold" her as a bride - she does not know how young she was because she was a child.  She had already had 4 children by the age of 17.  She now has four more children which she is raising by herself.   She thinks she was nine or 10 when she was married.  She had to raise the children, work the land planting melons, do bee-keeping and fetch all her water from a well.   She never learnt to read or went to school. She came here as a refugee.
I am glad to report she learnt to drive and is managing her affairs well.  The eldest daughter has just turned 18 and the children are studying the bible. 

A Jingle literally singing the praises of of JW dot org website 
sung by Caralyne Owens aged 4.
Song composed, written,recorded and released by
Brendan Vincent Owens www.BibleSongs.co.uk

============

Website Jingle
----------------------
Try JW dot Org
Words & Music By Brendan Vincent Owens

Have you wondered about the meaning of life?
Is God to blame for our trouble and strife?
Do you have unanswered questions that make you sigh?
Do you ever wonder what happens when you die?

Yes - Life may trouble you
Bad news may trouble you
Questions trouble you as well they might.
If life troubles you - questions trouble you, try JW.org website.

Have you wondered; "Does God really care?"
“Does He listen when we pray - is He there?”
“Will war and suffering ever cease?”
“How can we find inner happiness and peace?”

Yes - Life may trouble you
Crime may trouble you
Questions trouble you as well they might.
If life troubles you - questions trouble you, try JW.org website.

The reasoning is clear - the answers are viable
They always adhere to God's word in the Bible

Yes - Life may trouble you
Doubt may trouble you
Questions trouble you as well they might.
If life troubles you - questions trouble you, try JW.org website.

Life may trouble you
Doubt may trouble you
So try J W .org website.

Try J W dot Org Website Try J W dot Org
Try J W dot Org Website Try J W dot Org

Words & Music By Brendan Vincent Owens
www.BibleSongs.co.uk
=========================
N.B. This video was not released by JW.org itself

Brothers want to hold a meeting based on spiritual activity related to their assignment such as elders/ministerial servants; elders; pioneers etc.? No problem for me.
Private get together between small group where family heads share spiritual appointment whether pioneers or servants? No problem for me.
Elder/Ministerial servant families only social event? Not for me. I would decline on the basis of para 12 page 9 in the study article in Jan 15 2016 Watchtower alone:
12 Do we extend hospitality to others by inviting them to our home for a meal or for some association and encouragement? We would not need to make elaborate or expensive arrangements to be considered hospitable; nor would we want to invite only those who might repay us in some way. (Luke 10:42; 14:12-14) Our goal should be to encourage, not to impress! ...
Hopefully whoever organises this occasion for over 50 brothers is taking on board all the society's counsel on large social gatherings.

Not sure how "he brought some brothers" to serve as witnesses to this incident.
Matt 5:32
However, as you probably know, porneia is not dependent on the sex of the persons involved. So, a proven case is grounds for the innocent party to scripturally divorce.

.
.
I have been a contributor to JW-Archive.ORG for somewhere around five years now, and made somewhere around 6,360 comments, and although I think it is important that the Truth be fought for, and deception and error exposed, especially when there are cover stories to keep it hidden, there is a time to lay down the "rifle" and rest ... especially when there are those who are emboldened enough to carry on the fight.

I am completely worn out.

The Elders in the Congregation I attend,  have made it quite clear to me they consider my fight for Justice and Truth inconsistent with current policy, and do not view Freedom of Speech the same way that I do .... as a way to SOLVE problems ... and carve a pathway to true Freedom and Justice, and real and consistent Truth.

If memory serves, in Shakespeare's play "Henry V" the King of England went among his men at night in disguise to find out what his men were thinking the night before a big battle in France, and as he stood in the dark listening to them around the campfire, he overheard one soldier say (paraphrased) " If what we do is wrong, the King will have to answer before God, our obligation is to obey the King..."

I am stuck.

 I feel it is my obligation to obey the Elders and the Governing Body, as to the best of my knowledge and belief, Jehovah's Witnesses are the "only game in town", even when I do not personally approve of MANY things that are  going on, or agree with MANY points of the operational philosophy, including the restriction of the exercise of Freedom of Speech.

Besides .... if 6,360 comments are not enough to make necessary points ... nothing in this "System of Things" ever will.

I would like to leave the Archive with a parting observation which I believe to be as much true as ANYTHING is:  Fight for what is TRUE ....  and everything else will take care of itself.

Iron sharpens iron .... politically correctness sharpens NOTHING! .....  and creates a nation of cowards.

Only with actual unvarnished Truth can you actually achieve REAL Justice ....... only with REAL Justice will you ever ACTUALLY be able to exercise REAL  Love.

Please, stick close to Jehovah's Witnesses, and put up with the silly crap, and the blatant, brazen error ... they are the ONLY GAME IN TOWN !  Such things are NORMAL among humans .... and always have been.  It was true when God ONLY dealt with the Jews .... and it is true now.

ONLY by doing so can we someday have TRUE Freedom, as the Sons and Daughters of Jehovah God.

I wish you strength, and courage, and resolve, and that through Justice you may continue in brotherly love, and the approval of God and his Christ.

James Thomas Rook, Jr. (JTR)
Tom Rook "

"Cautious as serpents innocent as doves." That's why not everyone uses their real name in public discussions - there will always be someone who will be offended by something, and some of them can make trouble for you. Actually I was surprised you held out this long considering some of the things that have been discussed.         That being said, even when I disagreed with something you said, I always respected it as something from the heart. Your posts were also some of the most humorous I've read as well - especially the captioned photos. Your elders were likely doing what was expected of them within the organizational framework and were likely sincere with your best interest at heart (giving them the benefit of the doubt).
But if there is one thing I love, appreciate and respect above all else is that even when facing what for others would be faith-destroying realities they would rather look the other way to or pretend don't exist, you have maintained your faith in Jehovah and recognize where lies "the only game in town."  You have faced the "unvarnished truth" and are still standing.  You now have a tested quality of faith that you won't find among "head-in-the-sanders" - no matter how righteous they may appear in their own eyes. As I've mentioned before, hang in their, you are not alone. - "he that has endured to the end will be saved..."

I just found this, and I feel like I'm losing a friend. A friend I never met, that is, and a friend with whom I probably disagree with on more subjects than I can remember right now  Forums aren't the same as "real-life" congregations, and friends on forums aren't the same as friends in "real life" either. Still, it's a bit like when one of your favorite elders steps down or moves away.
There is something liberating about being free to speak about whatever we find interesting. The freedom of speech that you, JTR, have enjoyed here was a true achievement. I'm sure it turned away a lot of friends here (I know the feeling) but it also made some points that will forever be remembered for good.
Thanks for what you've done. I hope I'm still here when and if you decide to find your way back for some additional rounds. I doubt you've run out of ammunition.
 

what a sad loss i personally have enjoyed your comments(most) and your often humorous take on things although not agreeing with everything, never the less you make us think and our faith is tested .wishing you Jehovah's rich blessing in future 

You are a rock of faith, JT. You managed to prove that disagreement and submission are not exclusive.
Jehovah's peace go with you and yours.