Melinda Mills

Here’s a fine gem from this 3-day-old report about the ECHR decision—declaring the 2017 ban on God’s people in Russia illegal, and its underlying premise of “extremism” absurd  (The decision was not unanimous. One judge voted against. Which one? Of course—the Russian one.):
“Even accepting that the texts [used to prove that they were “extremists”] promoted the idea that the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses was superior to others or that it was better to be a Jehovah’s Witness than a member of another Christian denomination, it is significant that the texts did not insult, hold up to ridicule or slander non-Witnesses; nor did they use abusive terms in respect of them or of matters regarded as sacred by them.”
https://bitterwinter.org/russia-persecution-of-jehovahs-witnesses-unlawful/
A fine example of imitation. Sigh…for me as well. I have had to add a few to the block list. I’m too easily drawn in when certain ones say outrageous, misrepresented, and sometimes just plain stupid, things. It’s my bad. I should have better self-control.

Lending a scriptural passage alluded to above by Arauna.
2 Samuel 24:10-14
10  But David’s heart* was struck with remorse+ after he had numbered the people. David then said to Jehovah: “I have sinned+ greatly by doing this. And now, Jehovah, please forgive your servant’s error,+ for I have acted very foolishly.”+ 11  When David got up in the morning, Jehovah’s word came to Gad+ the prophet, David’s visionary, saying: 12  “Go and say to David, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “I am giving you three options. Choose the one that I should bring on you.”’”+ 13  So Gad came in to David and told him: “Should seven years of famine come on your land?+ Or should you flee for three months from your adversaries while they pursue you?+ Or should there be three days of pestilence in your land?+ Now consider carefully what I should reply to the One who sent me.” 14  So David said to Gad: “It is very distressing to me. Let us fall, please, into the hand of Jehovah,+ for his mercy is great;+ but do not let me fall into the hand of man.”+15  Then Jehovah sent a pestilence+ on Israel from the morning until the designated time, so that 70,000 of the people from Dan to Beʹer-sheʹba+ died.+ 16  When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah felt regret* over the calamity,+ and he said to the angel bringing destruction among the people: “It is enough! Now let your hand drop.” Jehovah’s angel was close to the threshing floor of A·rauʹnah+ the Jebʹu·site."
Read on, to verse 24, it is interesting.
This discussion has gone way too far over the brink. Hope the scriptural passage can redeem and refresh in some way.

Lending a scriptural passage alluded to above by Arauna.
2 Samuel 24:10-14
10  But David’s heart* was struck with remorse+ after he had numbered the people. David then said to Jehovah: “I have sinned+ greatly by doing this. And now, Jehovah, please forgive your servant’s error,+ for I have acted very foolishly.”+ 11  When David got up in the morning, Jehovah’s word came to Gad+ the prophet, David’s visionary, saying: 12  “Go and say to David, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “I am giving you three options. Choose the one that I should bring on you.”’”+ 13  So Gad came in to David and told him: “Should seven years of famine come on your land?+ Or should you flee for three months from your adversaries while they pursue you?+ Or should there be three days of pestilence in your land?+ Now consider carefully what I should reply to the One who sent me.” 14  So David said to Gad: “It is very distressing to me. Let us fall, please, into the hand of Jehovah,+ for his mercy is great;+ but do not let me fall into the hand of man.”+15  Then Jehovah sent a pestilence+ on Israel from the morning until the designated time, so that 70,000 of the people from Dan to Beʹer-sheʹba+ died.+ 16  When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah felt regret* over the calamity,+ and he said to the angel bringing destruction among the people: “It is enough! Now let your hand drop.” Jehovah’s angel was close to the threshing floor of A·rauʹnah+ the Jebʹu·site."
Read on, to verse 24, it is interesting.
This discussion has gone way too far over the brink. Hope the scriptural passage can redeem and refresh in some way.

Who are these people?
 

Who are these people?
 

A few scriptures:  James 1:13-14, 1 John 5:19,
Ps. 37:10-11, Prov. 2:22  1 Peter 5:7, Rev. 21:3-4, Acts 24:15 Jer. 29:11, 2 Cor. 1:3
The above are just a few scriptures explaining the cause of such evil and the comfort available from the Bible.  
You might like to read lesson 26 in the interactive publication, Enjoy Life Forever, —Why Do Evil and Suffering Exist.  It is available on JW.org or your mother will be happy to share the info with you. 

Yes, I’m sure you care about your mother but you appear to care more about insulting her beliefs—and thereby her for being stupid enough to hold them. Try respecting her beliefs and stop carrying on about her being “ordered” to this or that because it is not the way she would phrase it, nor is it true.

Our congregation has hybrid meetings — both in person and zoom, plus we have KHCONF where you can listen audibly.  We elderly ones are not “forced” to attend in person but can take our pick on how to participate.  Presently 1/3 are attending in person and about 2/3 are on zoom and I might say are quite proficient in muting, unmuting, raising and lowering our hand for commenting. 

Usually mega-churches are considered to be those where you pack 2000 or so people into a room every Sunday. Like the crystal Cathedral in California which I believe actually went out of business and was sold to someone else, and allthough the Witnesses do have large assemblies and conventions, usually the mega church refers to the building they meet in weekly.
The problem with all churches is as soon as they start collecting real estate they assume a patina of corruption.
To protect their money and real estate .
My observations have concluded that there are no exceptions.
I would suspect this is why Jesus never even had his own “headquarters” to live in. 
All that being said, I personally would not consider JWs to be a “Mega Church”.

Are you kidding? I love the house to house work!! It's true that Rutherford made excuses as to why he didn't participate, but I bet he would have loved it, too, if he had just did done more of it. At least he pushed the laws of the land to make it more legal and more commonplace. Rutherford deserves a lot of credit for why Witnesses have the top reputation for the religion that preaches the kingdom from house-to-house, even after the hiatus.
I think it's also a very appropriate method for today. We don't really have a town square "agora" equivalent today. House to house isn't as effective as some methods, such as good publicity in widely watched media, but it's still the perfect method for most of us.
My true preference is a mix of face-to-face Bible studies for about half my time, and house-to-house for the other half. I like to see the householder's face to see how they are really responding.
In Jesus' day and in Paul's day you could find interest by preaching in a synagogue or town square or another public meeting place, and then follow up on that interest by getting invited to the home to develop the interest of that person/family.

As you might have guessed, I rarely pay attention to whether something is in the Open or Closed club. The Closed Club is definitely much more pleasant, many less distractions, but I'm sure it gives others the feeling that we have something to hide. The real reason, of course, is to stay away from persons who look for any reason they can think of to start fights, create dissension, highlight GB errors, and turn the subject to false predictions and child abuse. Come to think of it, that's a good enough reason.
There is one other consideration. I prefer to share opinions where they can be challenged from anyone, not just the dozen or so people who regularly participate in the Closed Club. There is also a better chance that someone else, who we don't know yet, is also reading the book and will come along to join in the discussion. That has happened before with discussions of God's name in the LXX, etc.
What I could do, also, is exercise my moderator powers and merely move any posts to a different topic if they are mostly unrelated. I think I'll try that. That goes for memes and pictures that are unrelated too, Pudgy. 😉 Actually, I'm always happy when I see a bunch of unrelated pictures from Pudgy, because it reminds me of how much quicker it is can be to read through a book that has lots of pictures --and they're usually funny! But I feel badly for those who start a serious topic, like Arauna just did, and it so quickly gets taken over by parody covers of children's books.
So, if I end up making a topic of comments on this book, I think I'll try just making a separate topic for the distractions. That doesn't mean people can't attack the book, or attack me for bringing it up. Those posts can remain, of course. But the little squabbles people want to bring up on the side will go to a topic made for that purpose. Assuming I can keep up. 😧

Let us know what you find out that you already didn't know....in the closed club if you can 😊
Oh and thanks for this expression: "not creating  negative "drama" out of guesswork". I will try and remember that phrase because people tend to do this 99% of the time and it's very annoying! Now I will just respond with: "stop creating drama out if guesswork" instead of going into long explanations... that without facts you can't really judge....and you were not a fly on the wall....etc.
 

I hadn't talked about 1914 in a while, and although I have been critical of the teaching, I was trying to think of scriptural reasons that one might accept it as correct.
Just a couple days before the Memorial, I heard a dumb theory on a local station that tried to make a rationale for why Christianity has an Easter bunny and colorful eggs. It was crazy but it reminded me that I had also vaguely remembered something like this with the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" so I looked up the lyrics on Google to see if the lyrics actually could lend themselves to some kind of religious rationale. Google provides a section called "People Also Ask:"
 

 


I didn't bother to look up the rest. But this got me to thinking that maybe this song is nearly as old as the KJV (1611) and I wondered whether the KJV Bible had even translated the birds of Genesis 15 correctly calling them "a turtledove and a pigeon." The NWT uses the same language, so I figured there was probably a good basis.
(Genesis 15:9, KJV) And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
So what's that got to do with 1914, you might be wondering?
So, my mind wandered again, and I realized that I might have been wrong about doubting 1914. It was just too much of a coincidence that Genesis 15:9 actually points to the year 1914 in the context of the Abrahamic Covenant - through a dream - just as 1914 is pointed to in the context of the Davidic Covenant according to our understanding of Daniel 4, also through a dream.
I think this is pretty amazing, maybe more than just coincidence. So I'll explain why in the next post. But first the context of Genesis 15 for anyone who might not remember:
(Genesis 15:5-16) 5 He now brought him outside and said: “Look up, please, to the heavens and count the stars, . . . “So your offspring will become.” . . .7 Then he added: “I am Jehovah, who brought you out of Ur of the Chal·deʹans to give you this land as your possession.” 8 To this he said: “Sovereign Lord Jehovah, how will I know that I will take possession of it?” 9 He replied to him: “Take for me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” . . . 12 ... a deep sleep fell upon Aʹbram and a great and frightening darkness descended on him. 13 Then He said to Aʹbram: “Know for certain that your offspring will be foreigners in a land not theirs and that the people there will enslave them and afflict them for 400 years. 16 But they will return here in the fourth generation . . .

Thanks for that information. There have been reports here on the forum from a Witness in Poland. Some activity on Twitter also relates to Witnesses leaving Ukraine. Also, the latest reports on jw.org have more information about relief efforts and Ukrainian Witnesses who have fled their homes, and the country.
UPDATE #7 | Brotherly Love Prevails Amid Ongoing Crisis in Ukraine
Brothers Courageously Deliver Aid, Rescue Others in Ukrainian War Zone

The solution that works for me is this: don’t believe anyone.

I did not know that about the Indian people…I shudder to think what they will do with the brothers that never got out..

There is only one king at a time which represents this king "“In the time of the end". Germany hated Jehovah's people, thereafter Russia relentlessly persecuted Jehovah's people.
The king of the south was firstly : Britain (the 7th head of the wild beast that received a sword stroke -), in order to continue with the war they needed USA to enter the war and then the Lusitania was conveniently sunk.  

All governments have the 'sword' or else they cannot maintain the peace and good order.  Note what the apostle Paul said in the Christian era at Romans chapter 13 verses 1 and 4:
1 " Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ....4  for it is Gods minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword.  It is God's minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad."
In the 20th century BCE when Joseph was administering Egypt I would think that things were even stricter.  Also in the period when he Jewess Esther was Queen of Persia (some time between the period 493 to 475 BCE) use of the sword was fairly liberal; one could not come in to the King unless he/she were invited. They did so under the penalty of death.
When Adam an Eve listened to Satan and sinned, God knew that human kings/governments would come on the scene.  That is why he told Samuel, that the Israelites did not reject him, Samuel, it was Jehovah whom they rejected when they asked for a king.  As early as Genesis 49 we see prophecy relating to the the coming of royal offspring eventually leading the Jesus, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, who was to be the root of David.  His throne would eventually be a heavenly throne and has in fact become so.
Therefore what human kings/governments do is allowed by God to keep order on earth.
There is no record, as far as I remember,  of Joseph's dealings with ordinary citizens  but whatever he did seemed was fair and in good taste. He was later given total power over everyone in the Egyptian realm except for Pharaoh himself. Pharaoh recognized in 30-year-old Joseph the man wise enough to administer affairs during the time of plenty and the time of famine.  Joseph was therefore constituted second ruler in Egypt, Pharaoh giving Joseph his own signet ring, fine linen garments, and a necklace of gold and other trappings of high office.   
Fast forward to when his brothers came to Egypt to buy food, he sent them back to fetch his younger brother and gave them a series of tests to see if their murderous attitude had changed.   He then revealed himself to them, hugged them and cried profusely and told them: "Now do not feel hurt and do not be angry with yourselves because you sold me here; because for the preservation of life God has sent me ahead of you.  For this is the second year of the famine in the midst of the earth, and there are yet five years in which were will be no plowing time or harvest. Consequently God sent me ahead of you in order to place a remnant for you men in the earth and to keep you alive by a great escape. So now it was not you who sent me here, but it was the true God."  Genesis 45;1-8; 14,15.
Being a ruler did not stop him from being a servant of God; even if he had to order the execution of thieves it would not have stopped him from being righteous in God's eyes, because God had given that authority to the state.  
That Joseph was approved by God is seen in the fact that the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel mentioned in Revelation  7 verse 8, includes his name, whereas in the literal twelve tribes of Israel  his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, are mentioned.  Also in the Christian Greek Scriptures Joseph is included in the "great cloud" of Witnesses whose faith is worthy of imitation.  It mentioned at verse 22 of chapter 11 of Hebrews that "By faith Joseph, nearing his end, spoke of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and he gave instructions concerning his bones. We see his actual request at Genesis 50:24,25. That this was carried out we see in the record at Joshua 24:32: "The bones of Joseph, which the Israelites had brought up out of Egypt, were buried in Shechem in the portion of the field that Jacob had acquired from the sons of Hamor,  Shechem's father, for 100 pieces of money; and it became the inheritance of the sons of Joseph."
I wanted to include God's approval of the worship of the Syrian war chief Naaman on becoming a worshipper of the True God but don't wish to be too long. Check the record at 2 Kings 5:15-18. 
 However, for Christians it is a little different.  The apostle Paul goes further than Jesus in explaining the spirit of the Christian law. Since Jesus's ransom  sacrifice, all nations are one under Christ. When Peter cut off the high priests ear in the garden of Gethsemane at the time of Jesus' arrest, Jesus healed it and restored the ear and rebuked Peter., saying those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword. He had told Christians to be neutral in John 17:15-17, namely "..They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."  That the character of a soldier was not in keeping with the character of a Christian, the apostle Paul wrote to Titus and Timothy: 1 Tim 3:2, 3: 2 "The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3  not a drunkard, not violent (or a smiter - footnote), but reasonable, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money...". 
History of the first century Christians show they did not take jobs which entailed violence of any sort, but they cooperated with those who had the sword by obeying the laws of the land.  (Romans 13)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Yes, and we learned recently that by and large God's people went into captivity to Babylon the Great  (Christendom, etc) around 200 CE and emerged again around 1919 liberating light again began to shine - Bible Students Association, etc).  So we are looking at the King of the North from thenceforth, when true worship was revived.  (This is not to say that Jehovah had no worshippers on earth during that long period - we  had Bible translators that persisted even unto death; non-Trinitarians burned to the stake, scientists and artists who definitely believed in God like Sir Isaac Newton, etc)  There was no organized true religion during that period until 1919.  Jesus said the wheat and the weeds would grow together until the last days, the harvest time. (Matt 13:25-30)  So there were wheat-like persons who believed the Bible and worshipped to the best of their ability and perception during that period.  As the True God, he must have Witnesses. (Isaiah 43) False gods have none.
We learned recently that it was not in 1776 when America gained Independence but later when Britain and America began to cooperate together that the Anglo-American world power came into force. So Britain-America has been the King of the South for some time now.  (Was looking for this information yesterday but I did not find the source, so this is just all from memory and perception.)  Perhaps JWI, Arauna  or someone else may wish to bring out these points better. I am a bit busy today.  

Well it appears it was nobody......for nearly 2 000 years. The prophecy applies to the time of the end, that's what I was trying to say.
As Arauna says: The King of the North appears again after Jesus was crowned*...
(it won't let me quote from more than one post. It used to be possible.....what happened? @The Librarian)
*Of course JWI would say this was in the first century

The paradigm is very cunning and callous, there is a reason as to why they censor people for speaking truth. As in regards to faith, they have planted their seeds in the educational institutions, something of which people are oblivious to the workings of the higher education system.
The next couple of years is going to be vastly different since the culture war started back up again.

I'm sorry. What I should have simply said is that Russia was not the king KON in colonial times, it only became the KON in the time of the end. Before the first world War the KON was Germany I believe and Anglo America has always been the king of the south. I don't know who the KON was supposed to be in the 18th century....

Yes, and we learned recently that by and large God's people went into captivity to Babylon the Great  (Christendom, etc) around 200 CE and emerged again around 1919 liberating light again began to shine - Bible Students Association, etc).  So we are looking at the King of the North from thenceforth, when true worship was revived.  (This is not to say that Jehovah had no worshippers on earth during that long period - we  had Bible translators that persisted even unto death; non-Trinitarians burned to the stake, scientists and artists who definitely believed in God like Sir Isaac Newton, etc)  There was no organized true religion during that period until 1919.  Jesus said the wheat and the weeds would grow together until the last days, the harvest time. (Matt 13:25-30)  So there were wheat-like persons who believed the Bible and worshipped to the best of their ability and perception during that period.  As the True God, he must have Witnesses. (Isaiah 43) False gods have none.
We learned recently that it was not in 1776 when America gained Independence but later when Britain and America began to cooperate together that the Anglo-American world power came into force. So Britain-America has been the King of the South for some time now.  (Was looking for this information yesterday but I did not find the source, so this is just all from memory and perception.)  Perhaps JWI, Arauna  or someone else may wish to bring out these points better. I am a bit busy today.  

The king of the North was not visible after the destruction of Jerusalem.  The King of the north and South was very visible as part of the Greek empire until the last King of the North - Rome (which actually also gained control of Egypt (Julius Caesar and mark Anthony).  The bible then mentions the "exactor (Augustus) and the despised one - Tiberius Caesar during the impalement of Jesus.
The King of the North appears again after Jesus was crowned and a visible people of Jehovah would be on earth that renders pure worship. The Slave were approved in 1919. (For the sake of history we must look where the King of the North came from before 1914 as he had to come from somewhere.)  Germany was unified into one country - the city states amalgamated. They grew into a industrial powerhouse and eventually the eldest grandson of queen Victoria, Wilhelm 2, came up against the king of the south (Anglo-american world power).  This Great wat and WW2 forged England and USA  into a dominating power. Of course there was much maneuvering behind the scenes. 
 
Now we have the pushing of south and the north in the same fashion they have done for decades.  CIA still toppling governments in color revolutions and shenanigans of legitimate regime changes... bringing chaos and extreme corruption in its wake.  They have fleeced Ukraine and are using her as a pawn with no intention to help except send weapons to turn this into an Afghanistan (maybe) or get Putin to play ball with the New world Order.  He attended klausch schwab (Young leaders indoctrination school),  but he is a lover of nationalism and want to keep his nation separate from the NWO.
China will take Taiwan but will get away with it (I think) since they are the darling of the UN.  The UN are now negotiating  a new agreement to give WHO (UN) full powers over all the world health.... all countries will be forced to adhere. America has signed. We will see how far they get with NWO. Putin - will he capitulate or remain separate as King of the North?  We will see.

Oooh okay ..got you now 🙂