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Melinda Mills

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  1. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in In what sense was Noah a preacher of righteousness?   
    The Watchtower's view on this is very reasonable. If you work on a large project for several years, then people are going to ask, and you are probably going to try to answer them. At a very minimum we would expect Noah to given an answer that would have to include something about God's impending judgement, which makes him an announcer (preacher) of righteousness. Se we merely take a common sense approach, and then add just a little bit of conjecture about what he might have done or said specifically.
    But most scholars, I think, take a more direct approach that includes the idea that 2 Peter is referring to known sources that would have made this idea "common knowledge". Their approach includes the idea that 2 Peter and Jude were likely written later than most fundamentalist Christians acknowledge. (Jude is something like a paraphrase of a subset of 2 Peter.)
    Both Jude are 2 Peter seem more acquainted with a larger body of Jewish literature where ideas about the assumption of the body of Moses are known, the names Jannes and Jambres are known, Enoch is considered a prophet who wrote (or "inspired") the well-known book of Enoch, and Noah was a preacher.
    The sources for most of these ideas are fairly well known from surviving literature, including the references to Noah as a preacher.
    You will find plenty of info on this here:
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
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  3. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from JW Insider in Are the 24 Elders in Revelation the 144,000? Is the Watchtower about to drop this doctrine?   
    "It will be interesting to see if we are given a new understanding of the identity of the 24 elders. If they are no longer seen as the 144'000, then perhaps Rev 7:13-14 will remove the need to think that the anointed in heaven are communicating with those still on earth. "  Great point, Anna
    Very interesting discussion so far, JWI. I appreciate the time and research you put into bringing these points to our attention.
     However, I am not usually bothered by these things. These are the points that I read and I sometimes forget them, because if something does not add up or is not convincing enough I know no one will or can force me to believe it. So it just does not stick.  God is in charge and he will use the holy spirit to teach us what is necessary.
    Agape to you all.
     
  4. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in Are the 24 Elders in Revelation the 144,000? Is the Watchtower about to drop this doctrine?   
    "It will be interesting to see if we are given a new understanding of the identity of the 24 elders. If they are no longer seen as the 144'000, then perhaps Rev 7:13-14 will remove the need to think that the anointed in heaven are communicating with those still on earth. "  Great point, Anna
    Very interesting discussion so far, JWI. I appreciate the time and research you put into bringing these points to our attention.
     However, I am not usually bothered by these things. These are the points that I read and I sometimes forget them, because if something does not add up or is not convincing enough I know no one will or can force me to believe it. So it just does not stick.  God is in charge and he will use the holy spirit to teach us what is necessary.
    Agape to you all.
     
  5. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in Are the 24 Elders in Revelation the 144,000? Is the Watchtower about to drop this doctrine?   
    True. And you may be on to something!
    I remember this WT study very well, including this particular paragraph and the sentence I underscored. It was the first time that something written in the WT really bothered me. I just had this weird feeling about it, that it just didn't sound right. In my mind I asked myself how was that meant, "communicating divine truths" ? And why would the resurrected ones communicate only some divine truths, and leave others out? This whole idea made it sound like the GB were getting some kind of visions, or ideas put in their heads (by the other members of the GB who had died). This did not sound right at all since the only helper Jesus said his father would give us was the holy spirit. And we can all be the beneficiaries of that, not just the GB. And we don't get visions or dreams so why would the GB get exclusive treatment when still on earth? The only time they differ from "us" is that they have "been called to heaven", I am not aware of any scripture which indicates that the GB would "receive divine truths" by some communication from heaven. In fact they have to work hard at discerning Bible truths, as they themselves have indicated.  This whole communication idea just sounded off and out of sinc with everything else. And in any case, I do not understand why there is any relevance placed on when the first resurrection began. I am thinking, who cares? How does this affect anything else? Jehovah knows when he resurrects, why do we need to know?
    It will be interesting to see if we are given a new understanding of the identity of the 24 elders. If they are no longer seen as the 144'000, then perhaps Rev 7:13-14 will remove the need to think that the anointed in heaven are communicating with those still on earth.
    Thankfully our reasoning on many matters such as the ones you mention has become so much more reasonable. But I agree, it definitely looks like there might be some change in the pipeline and this WT study might be a kind of " trial balloon" .
    I am not sure I think this has some kind of significance. I understand this to mean simply that we shouldn't idolize them as if they were angels, because they are not.
  6. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    Yes, I've seen opposers indignant at the thought that Jesus is only the mediator between Jehovah and the anointed, as if the other sheep cannot be heard by Jehovah when they pray. This of course cannot be the case. When a member of the other sheep pray, they do not need someone of the anointed to mediate on their behalf with Jesus so that they, the other sheep can be heard by Jehovah. Jehovah hears their prayer.  Although the other sheep are not in a special covenant with Jesus, and therefor it can be said Jesus is not their mediator, Jesus IS their intercessor. There was an article about this difference in a WT but I can't remember where!
  7. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    Destinies
    - Earth
    Ps 37:11,29 Righteous to live one earth forever - original purpose – God put Adam on earth
    Matt 5:5 Meek shall inherit the earth – Jesus
    Rev 7: 9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.
    Rev 21;3,4 Will live one earth in good conditions with no more death
    (Revelation 7:13, 14) In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb”.
    No tribulation in heaven. (Matthew 24:21)
    John 10:16 Other sheep not of this (heavenly) fold - earthly
     -  Heaven
    (Luke 12:32) “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.
    (Luke 22:28-29) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,…
    (Revelation 14:1) Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.  (Revelation 14:3) And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth.
    (Revelation 5:9) And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    (Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
    (Hebrews 3:1) Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge  — Jesus.
    (2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14) 13 However, we are obligated always to thank God for you, brothers loved by Jehovah, because from the beginning God selected you for salvation by sanctifying you with his spirit and by your faith in the truth. 14 He called you to this through the good news we declare, so that you may acquire the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Ephesians 1: 10… It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ,
    Has earthly things and heavenly things
    Ephesians 1: 10… It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him 11 with whom we are in union and were assigned as heirs, having been foreordained according to the purpose of the one who accomplishes all things as he decides according to his will, 12 so that we who have been first to hope in the Christ should serve for the praise of his glory. 13 But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, 14 which is a token in advance of our inheritance,
     
    Has different folds  (earthly and heavenly) but one flock
     
    (John 10:16, 17) 16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. . .
     
  8. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    Understanding will increase – no need to be argumentative or dogmatic
     
     
    (1 Corinthians 13:12, 13) 12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.
     
     
     (Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.
     
    ====================
     
     
    Both earthly and heavenly servants are righteous, but Jehovah can do what he wants with this things.   As with household servants, some can be assigned to serve in the inner chambers, some can serve in the courtyard.
     
     
     (Isaiah 60:21) And all your people will be righteous; They will possess the land forever. They are the sprout that I planted, The work of my hands, for me to be beautified.
     
    (Matthew 20:14-16) 14 Take what is yours and go. I want to give to this last one the same as to you. 15 Do I not have the right to do what I want with my own things? Or is your eye envious because I am good?’ 16 In this way, the last ones will be first, and the first ones last.”
     
     
    Declared righteous as Friends of God
     
    (James 2:18-23) 18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,” and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend.
     
    *** w14 2/15 pp. 11-12 Rejoice Over the Marriage of the Lamb! ***
    “THEY WILL BE BROUGHT WITH REJOICING”
    14 Read Psalm 45:12, 14b, 15. The prophet Zechariah foretold that in the time of the end, people of the nations would gratefully associate themselves with the remnant of spiritual Israel. He wrote: “In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: ‘We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.’” (Zech. 8:23) At Psalm 45:12, these symbolic “ten men” are spoken of as “the daughter of Tyre” and “the wealthiest of men.” They come to the anointed remnant with gifts, ‘seeking their favor’ and spiritual help. Since 1935, millions of people have allowed the remnant to ‘bring them to righteousness.’ (Dan. 12:3) These loyal companions of the anointed Christians have purified their lives, becoming spiritual virgins. These “virgin companions” of the bride have dedicated themselves to Jehovah and have proved themselves to be faithful subjects of the Bridegroom-King.
    15 The remnant of the bride class have been particularly grateful to these “virgin companions” for their zealous help in preaching “this good news of the Kingdom” throughout the inhabited earth. (Matt. 24:14) Not only do “the spirit and the bride keep on saying, ‘Come!’” but those hearing say, “Come!” (Rev. 22:17) Yes, the “other sheep” heard the members of the anointed bride class say “Come!” and have joined the bride in saying “Come!” to earth’s inhabitants.—John 10:16.
    16 The anointed remnant love their companions and are happy to know that the Bridegroom’s Father, Jehovah, has granted these other sheep on earth the privilege of joining in the jubilation over the heavenly marriage of the Lamb. It was foretold that these “virgin companions” would be “brought with rejoicing and joy.” Yes, the other sheep, who hope to live forever on earth, will share in the universal rejoicing when the marriage of the Lamb takes place in heaven. Appropriately, the book of Revelation represents the members of the “great crowd” as “standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” They render Jehovah sacred service in the earthly courtyard of his spiritual temple.—Rev. 7:9, 15.
    “YOUR SONS WILL TAKE THE PLACE OF YOUR FOREFATHERS”
    17 Read Psalm 45:16. “The virgin companions” of Christ’s heavenly bride will have further cause for rejoicing when they see the marriage become fruitful in the new world. The Bridegroom-King will turn his attention to the earth and will resurrect his earthly “forefathers,” who will become his earthly “sons.” (John 5:25-29; Heb. 11:35) From among these he will appoint “princes in all the earth.” Doubtless, Christ will appoint others from among faithful elders of today to take the lead in the new world.—Isa. 32:1.
    18 During his Millennial Reign, Christ will become a father to others also. In fact, all earth’s inhabitants who receive everlasting life will gain it because they exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. (John 3:16) He thus becomes their “Eternal Father.”—Isa. 9:6, 7.
    =======
     
    Declared righteous as Sons of God – raised in perfection as spirit  creatures
     
     (Romans 8:16, 17) The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.
     
    (Romans 6:1-7) 6 What are we to say then? Should we continue in sin so that undeserved kindness may increase? 2 Certainly not! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how can we keep living any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 So we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in a newness of life. 5 If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.
     
    *** w98 2/15 pp. 14-15 Jehovah Brings Many Sons to Glory ***
    The Witness of the Spirit
    10 All 144,000 anointed Christians have had absolute evidence that they have God’s spirit. In this regard, Paul wrote: “You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: ‘Abba, Father!’ The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.” (Romans 8:15-17) Anointed Christians have a filial spirit toward their heavenly Father, a dominant sense of sonship. (Galatians 4:6, 7) They are absolutely certain that they have been begotten by God to spiritual sonship as joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly Kingdom. In this, Jehovah’s holy spirit plays a definite role.
    11 Under the influence of God’s holy spirit, the spirit, or dominant attitude, of anointed ones impels them to respond in a positive way to what God’s Word says about the heavenly hope. For instance, when they read what the Scriptures say about Jehovah’s spiritual children, they spontaneously acknowledge that such words apply to them. (1 John 3:2) They know that they have been “baptized into Christ Jesus” and into his death. (Romans 6:3) Their firm conviction is that they are God’s spiritual sons, who will die and be resurrected to heavenly glory, as Jesus was.
    12 Being begotten to spiritual sonship is not a cultivated desire. Spirit-begotten ones do not want to go to heaven because of distress over present hardships on earth. (Job 14:1) Rather, Jehovah’s spirit has engendered in truly anointed ones a hope and desire uncommon to humans in general. Such begotten ones know that everlasting life in human perfection on a paradise earth surrounded by a happy family and friends would be wonderful. However, such life is not the principal desire of their hearts. Anointed ones have such a strong heavenly hope that they willingly sacrifice all earthly prospects and attachments.—2 Peter 1:13, 14.
     
    =======
     
    What passing over from death to life means
     
    (John 5:24) 24 Most truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes the One who sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.
     
    *** w08 4/15 p. 30 par. 8 Highlights From the Book of John ***
    5:24, 25—Who are those ‘passing over from death to life’? Jesus is speaking about those who were once spiritually dead but who upon hearing his words put faith in him and discontinue walking in their sinful course. They ‘pass over from death to life’ in that the condemnation of death is lifted from them, and they are given the hope of everlasting life because of their faith in God.—1 Pet. 4:3-6.
     
    Review what we know
     
    *** it-1 pp. 605-606 Declare Righteous ***
    In the Christian Congregation. With the coming of God’s Son as the promised Redeemer, a new factor existed upon which God could base his dealings with his human servants. The followers of Jesus Christ who are called to be his spiritual brothers, with the prospect of being joint heirs with him in the heavenly Kingdom (Ro 8:17), are first declared righteous by God on the basis of their faith in Jesus Christ. (Ro 3:24, 28) This is a judicial act of Jehovah God; therefore before him as the Supreme Judge no one can “file accusation” against his chosen ones. (Ro 8:33, 34) Why does God take this action toward them?
    First, it is because Jehovah is perfect and holy (Isa 6:3); hence, in harmony with his holiness, those whom he accepts as his sons must be perfect. (De 32:4, 5) Jesus Christ, God’s chief Son, showed himself perfect, “loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.” (Heb 7:26) His followers, however, are taken from among the sons of Adam, who, because of sin, fathered an imperfect, sinful family. (Ro 5:12; 1Co 15:22) Thus, as John 1:12, 13 shows, Jesus’ followers were not, to begin with, sons of God. By his undeserved kindness, Jehovah God arranged a process of “adoption” through which he accepts such favored ones and brings them into a spiritual relationship as part of his family of sons. (Ro 8:15, 16; 1Jo 3:1) Consequently, God lays the basis for their entry into or their adoption to sonship by declaring them righteous through the merit of Christ’s ransom sacrifice in which they exercise faith, acquitting them of all guilt due to sin. (Ro 5:1, 2, 8-11; compare Joh 1:12.) They are, therefore, “counted,” or credited, as being completely righteous persons, all their sins being forgiven and not charged against them.—Ro 4:6-8; 8:1, 2; Heb 10:12, 14.
    This declaring of such Christians righteous, therefore, goes much farther than in the case of Abraham (and other pre-Christian servants of Jehovah), previously discussed. Indicating the scope of Abraham’s justification, the disciple James wrote: “The scripture was fulfilled which says: ‘Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,’ and he came to be called ‘Jehovah’s friend.’” (Jas 2:20-23) So, because of his faith, Abraham was declared righteous as a friend of God, not as a son of God because of being “born again” with heavenly life in view. (Joh 3:3) The Scriptural record makes clear that prior to Christ’s coming neither such sonship nor such a heavenly hope had been opened up to men.—Joh 1:12, 17, 18; 2Ti 1:10; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 3:1.
    It can be seen that, though enjoying the status of righteous persons before God, these Christians do not possess actual or literal perfection in the flesh. (1Jo 1:8; 2:1) In view of the prospect of heavenly life for these followers of Christ, such literal perfection in fleshly organism now is not actually needed. (1Co 15:42-44, 50; Heb 3:1; 1Pe 1:3, 4) However, by their being declared righteous, having righteousness “counted,” or credited, to them, God’s requirements of justice are satisfied, and he brings the adopted ones into the “new covenant” validated by the blood of Jesus Christ. (Lu 22:20; Mt 26:28) These adopted spiritual sons in the new covenant that is made with spiritual Israel are ‘baptized into Christ’s death,’ eventually dying a death like his.—Ro 6:3-5; Php 3:10, 11.
    Although Jehovah forgives their sins of fleshly weakness and imperfection, nevertheless, a conflict exists in these Christians, as illustrated in Paul’s letter to the Romans (7:21-25). It is between the law of their renewed mind (Ro 12:2; Eph 4:23), or “God’s law,” and “sin’s law” that is in their members. This is because their fleshly bodies are not perfected, even though they are counted righteous and their sins are forgiven. This conflict contributes to the test of their integrity toward God. They can win this conflict by the help of God’s spirit and with the assistance of their merciful High Priest, Christ Jesus. (Ro 7:25; Heb 2:17, 18) To win, however, they must constantly exercise faith in Christ’s ransom sacrifice and follow him, thus maintaining their righteousness in God’s eyes. (Compare Re 22:11.) Thereby they ‘make their calling and choosing sure’ for themselves. (2Pe 1:10; Ro 5:1, 9; 8:23-34; Tit 3:6, 7) If, on the other hand, they take up the practice of sin, falling away from the faith, they lose their favored standing before God as righteous persons because they “impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.” (Heb 6:4-8) Such ones face destruction. (Heb 10:26-31, 38, 39) Thus, Jesus spoke of the sin that has no forgiveness, and the apostle John distinguished between the sin that “does not incur death” and the sin that “does incur death.”—Mt 12:31, 32; 1Jo 5:16, 17.
    Jesus Christ, after maintaining his faithfulness until death, was “made alive in the spirit,” given immortality and incorruption. (1Pe 3:18; 1Co 15:42, 45; 1Ti 6:16) He was thus “declared [or pronounced] righteous in spirit” (1Ti 3:16; Ro 1:2-4) and sat down at the right hand of God in the heavens. (Heb 8:1; Php 2:9-11) The faithful footstep followers of Christ await a resurrection like his (Ro 6:5), looking forward to becoming recipients of “divine nature.”—2Pe 1:4.
    Other Righteous Ones. In one of Jesus’ illustrations, or parables, relating to the time of his coming in Kingdom glory, persons likened to sheep are designated as “righteous ones.” (Mt 25:31-46) It is notable, however, that in this illustration these “righteous ones” are presented as separate and distinct from those whom Christ calls “my brothers.” (Mt 25:34, 37, 40, 46; compare Heb 2:10, 11.) Because these sheeplike ones render assistance to Christ’s spiritual “brothers,” thus demonstrating faith in Christ himself, they are blessed by God and are called “righteous ones.” Like Abraham, they are accounted, or declared, righteous as friends of God. (Jas 2:23) This righteous standing will mean survival for them when the “goats” depart “into everlasting cutting-off.”—Mt 25:46.
    A parallel situation may be noted in the vision recorded at Revelation 7:3-17. Here, a “great crowd” of indefinite number are shown as distinct from the 144,000 ‘sealed ones.’ (Compare Eph 1:13, 14; 2Co 5:1.) That this “great crowd” enjoys a righteous standing before God is indicated by the fact that they are described as having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”—Re 7:14.
    The “great crowd,” who survive the “great tribulation,” are not yet declared righteous for life—that is, as worthy of the right to everlasting life on earth. They need to continue partaking of the “fountains of waters of life,” as guided by the Lamb, Christ Jesus. They will need to do this during the Millennial Reign of Christ. (Re 7:17; 22:1, 2) If they prove loyal to Jehovah through a final test at the end of the thousand years, they will have their names permanently retained in God’s book of life, Jehovah thus declaring, or acknowledging, that they finally are righteous in the complete sense.—Re 20:7, 8.
     
    (Underscoring, bold and large print – mine)
     
  9. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    That the Jesus they knew and loved had indeed been resurrected. Jesus exhibited the same spirit that he displayed at John 16:12-13. No need to subject his already buffeted disciples to terrifying manifestations such as those experienced earlier by Daniel when confronted with a spirit being (Da.10:8-9). Jesus did not find it necessary to overwhelm them with proof that he had been resurrected in the manner required to move the insolent Saul as later recorded at Acts 9:3-9.
     
    Agreed, but would qualify this with a reference to 1 Cor.15:45 which says of Jesus: "The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." This is not what Job had in mind.
     
    Agreed. That is the conclusion I draw.
     
    Agreed. However, pre-Christian believers will not enjoy a resurrection like Christ's.
     
    With regard to 1Tim.6:15-16, I know this is disputed. I am happy to read this as a contrast with earthly rulers and therefore as referring to the glorified Jesus in the heavens. (Not sure why you have Mighty God in parenthesis here?)
    However, your proposed view does not change the understanding of 1John 3:2 where Christians who will  "see him just as he is" will of necessity be unable to do so if resurrected as humans, flesh and blood.
    This is patently obvious. But...it is clear to me! "Funny old world" someone said to me yesterday when they realised that a lifetime of Bible reading had not led them to discern even that God had a personal name.
    Compare Jesus words at Matt.16:17:
    "flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did"
  10. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    Well then, Jesus appearances in an apparently human form were "positive proofs" to his disciples of the fact of his resurrection and not the nature of his resurrection. There are a number of examples in scripture of spirits (angels) appearing in a tangible human form in order to carry out assignments. (And apparently unauthorised examples of the same).
    The reality of a resurrection for humans in human, physical form was not a new concept to faithful worshippers of Jehovah, because of the resurrections already recorded in scripture. Even before these, Job spoke of the possibility of a man living again after "compulsory service" in the grave at the call of God. (Job 14:15). Interestingly, when Jesus resurrected Jairus' daughter, he ordered her to be given food, a very physical provision. And circumstantially, Luke the pysician's record of this miracle has no hint of a spiritual aspect to this resurrection. Martha's faith in Lazarus being resurrected on the last day was based on these examples in part, so I cannot see her as having a concept other than that of a physical, earthly resurrection of humans in human form. This would have been considerably reinforced by what she then witnesed in connection with her brother, Lazarus.
    It does not seem feasable (to me) that Paul would need to discuss at length the nature of the body provided for those resurrected if the topic involved being resurrected in a fleshly human form when so much prior evidence already existed for this kind of resurrection. (And to which he did not refer). His discussion involved a resurrection to spirit life in the heavens, with an appropriately provided body and quality of life suitable for such a destiny, and for which a body of flesh and blood would be obsolete.
    The description of the glorified Jesus in the heavens at 1Tim.6:16 indicates that "no man can see" him and this is appropriate for one who "is the image of the invisible God" Col.1:15. So, for those who are described, in connection with Jehovah, as destined to "see him just as he is", then their having the privilege of also seeing the glorified Jesus just as he is would seem a logical conclusion. This would not be an experience for any man of flesh and blood, resurrected or otherwise.
    As stated before, 'every knee in heaven, on earth, and under the ground'  will bend in the name of the Christ eventually. Ph.2:10. So, all humans will be Christian not least in the sense that they will all have benefited from the ransom paid by Jesus and his tasting "death for everyone" Heb.2:9 and their having excercised the requisite faith in that provision. John 3:16. It is obvious from all that is discussed in the Scriptures that a heavenly resurrection hope is held out to some of those Christians. It is also clear that "the inhabited earth to come" that is subject to Jesus will be inhabited in part by humans like Job who looked forward to an end to their compulsory service in the grave (or Sheol), and this by means of a physical, earthly resurrection. 
  11. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in Governing Body Of Jehovah’s Witnesses Warns Against Ponzi Schemes   
    @Nicole @John Houston
    BTW, it is very common for Jehovah's Witnesses and many other religious people to get involved in MLM (multi-level marketing) which can be the same as "pyramid marketing" and many types of "network marketing." One reason it is attractive is that people in churches (and Kingdom Halls) and extended families have access to a quick "layer" of family, friends and acquaintances who can be expected to "share the wealth" while "enriching" the primary drivers of MLM even more.
    Personally, I believe (maybe wrongly) that MLM is a kind of a religion. There will be some who make enough money to be the "examples" of leaders that others will want to follow. It is almost always less sustainable than it appears, because optimism is preached as a necessary ingredient for success. Therefore, adherents to the religion of MLM are constantly dismissing the failures of some as merely a temporary anomaly, due to their temporary inability to give as much to the MLM effort that should be required. If you fail, you probably just need to allow yourself to invest more into it, or you need to feel guilty that you gave too much emphasis on a 'get rich quick' mentality because you expected too much, too quickly, without putting enough real practical effort behind it. In other words, your own guilt can drive you further into losing money, although you still have the examples that are always given all the attention and fanfare at MLM meetings. It is apostasy to look into the MLM doctrines too deeply where you will notice that the math/evidence does not support sustainability at all the levels of marketing that you will be trying to convert people to join. The religious beliefs in MLM make it continue to work for more years than the math can actually support, and those extra years provide more time to find just enough working, positive examples because money blinds the minds of the believers.
    Hope no one is offended by my views on it. They could be wrong, but I have seen people lose so much money over these "schemes." And because it's based on a positive, optimistic "religion" that everyone wants to believe in, those who fail at one type of pyramid scheme are almost always happy to join a new one that is marketed as something very different than the last one that failed for them. And they are bound to repeat their sins.  
  12. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in Voluntary Contributions   
  13. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    Don't be silly Ann. You know this was done for the benefit of the disciples. They were not in the heavenly realm at the time.
    This is interesting. Are you referring to Gen 6:2?
  14. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    In the 1970's, we were still using blue binders with 24 "spokes" to collect the magazines, but bound volumes were being printed. 
    I remember that it was long after I was baptized that I even noticed that Jesus (in Matt 5:5) was actually quoting Psalm 37 when he said the meek would inherit the earth. Today, I think there is much less emphasis on nit-picking whether a verse had to be specially applied to the anointed before we could speak about a general application to the "other sheep." I don't think anyone would say anything if you said that Jesus was speaking to people who would inherit the earth by living on it forever. I remember an article that I'm looking for now where David was originally applying the verse to the ideal situation with the Kingdom of Israel wherein they would continue to inhabit the promised land forever, and therefore inherit the earth by living on it forever if they kept up their end of the Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants with Jehovah. It struck me as odd that the original idea was that they would inherit it forever by living and dying on the land, for the next generation to inherit.
    This matches what Eoin said about the absence of a resurrection hope.
    *** w74 6/15 pp. 377-378 pars. 13-14 Serve with Eternity in View ***
    13 In Psalm 37:11, 29 David wrote: “The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, . . . The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” In saying this he evidently drew upon what should have been the case with regard to the Promised Land in his days and in the following generations. According to God’s covenant with Abraham, the wicked pagans who had lived in the land should be cleared out. (Gen. 15:18-21; 17:8; Deut. 7:22; Josh. 21:43-45) Thus each successive generation of righteous worshipers making up the nation of Israel could have resided on the land, the portion of the earth that God gave to them. (Deut. 30:20) We know, however, that the majority of the Israelites proved unfaithful, and so they did not carry out God’s purpose in that regard. In fact, finally God let the Assyrians and Babylonians conquer and depopulate the land temporarily.
    14 What David wrote in Psalm 37, though, was also a glimmering of the prospect that Christians today can have. That David’s words had a broader, large-scale application to the Kingdom rule of the entire earth is seen in the fact that at Matthew 5:5 Jesus quoted from Psalm 37. Did Christ say that its fulfillment was all in the past? No, for he projected it into the future, saying that the ‘mild-tempered will inherit the earth.’ Yes, those mild-tempered ones who are to be with Christ in his heavenly kingdom will rule over this earth. (Rev. 5:9, 10) Jesus knew that the Kingdom would rule the earth in righteousness forever. So, the earth itself will be populated by “righteous” ones who will “reside forever upon it.” Thus, by inspiration, David had described what the finale will be when Jehovah carries out his purpose for our earth. Christians can rejoice that the things of which David saw just glimmerings, and could personally share in only by means of a future resurrection, they can experience. Those whom the Lord puts on his right hand as “sheep” have the opportunity to “reside forever” on a paradise earth governed forever from heaven.
     
  15. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Michel Vromen in JW Child Labor for Jehovah   
    Would be good to see same tasks being done by elders, co's and gb members. In the end, did not Paul say this: 1Co 3:9 We are coworkers belonging to God. You are God’s field, God’s building.
    Jesus came to serve. He gave an example by washing the feet. Just saying.
     
  16. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Diakonos in Who wrote the tablets with the ten commandments?   
    *** it-2 p. 1085 Ten Words *** Source of Tablets. The Ten Words were first orally given at Mount Sinai by the angel of Jehovah. (Ex 20:1; 31:18; De 5:22; 9:10; Ac 7:38, 53; see also Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2.) Moses then ascended the mountain to receive the Ten Words in written form on two stone tablets, along with other commandments and instructions. During his extended 40-day stay, the people grew restless and made a molten calf to worship. Descending the mountain, Moses saw this spectacle of idolatry and threw down “the tablets [that] were the workmanship of God,” the very tablets upon which the Ten Words had been written, and shattered them.—Ex 24:12; 31:18–32:19; De 9:8-17; compare Lu 11:20. Jehovah later told Moses: “Carve out for yourself two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I must write upon the tablets the words that appeared on the first tablets, which you shattered.” (Ex 34:1-4) And so after another 40 days spent in the mountain, a duplicate copy of the Ten Words was obtained. These were kept by Moses in an ark of acacia wood. (De 10:1-5) The two tablets were called “the tablets of the covenant.” (De 9:9, 11, 15) Evidently this is why the gold-overlaid ark later made by Bezalel, in which the tablets were eventually kept, was called “the ark of the covenant.” (Jos 3:6, 11; 8:33; Jg 20:27; Heb 9:4) This legislation of the Ten Words was also called “the testimony” (Ex 25:16, 21; 40:20) and the “tablets of the Testimony” (Ex 31:18; 34:29), hence the expressions “the ark of the testimony” (Ex 25:22; Nu 4:5), and also “the tabernacle of the Testimony,” that is, the tent where the Ark was housed.—Ex 38:21. Concerning the first set of tablets, it is stated that they not only were made by Jehovah but were also “written on by God’s finger,” evidently denoting God’s spirit. (Ex 31:18; De 4:13; 5:22; 9:10) Likewise, the second set of tablets, although carved out by Moses, were written upon by Jehovah. When, at Exodus 34:27, Moses was told, “Write down for yourself these words,” reference was not to the Ten Words themselves, but, rather, as on a previous occasion (Ex 24:3, 4), he was to write down some of the other details pertaining to the covenant regulations. Hence, the pronoun “he” in Exodus 34:28b refers to Jehovah when it says: “And he [Jehovah, not Moses] proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.” Verse 1 shows this to be so. Later, when recalling these events, Moses confirms that it was Jehovah who duplicated the tablets.—De 10:1-4.
  17. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in JW Child Labor for Jehovah   
    Child Labor is a rather emotive term in this day and age don't you think??
    What we are seeing is an example of Ps.148:12-13 or Matt.21:15
  18. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to The Librarian in Anthony Morris III: Keep Perceiving Jehovah's Will (Lev. 19:18)   
    Anthony Morris III: Keep Perceiving Jehovah's Will (Lev. 19:18)
  19. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Hamlet in Who wrote the tablets with the ten commandments?   
    *** it-2 p. 1085 Ten Words *** Source of Tablets. The Ten Words were first orally given at Mount Sinai by the angel of Jehovah. (Ex 20:1; 31:18; De 5:22; 9:10; Ac 7:38, 53; see also Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2.) Moses then ascended the mountain to receive the Ten Words in written form on two stone tablets, along with other commandments and instructions. During his extended 40-day stay, the people grew restless and made a molten calf to worship. Descending the mountain, Moses saw this spectacle of idolatry and threw down “the tablets [that] were the workmanship of God,” the very tablets upon which the Ten Words had been written, and shattered them.—Ex 24:12; 31:18–32:19; De 9:8-17; compare Lu 11:20. Jehovah later told Moses: “Carve out for yourself two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I must write upon the tablets the words that appeared on the first tablets, which you shattered.” (Ex 34:1-4) And so after another 40 days spent in the mountain, a duplicate copy of the Ten Words was obtained. These were kept by Moses in an ark of acacia wood. (De 10:1-5) The two tablets were called “the tablets of the covenant.” (De 9:9, 11, 15) Evidently this is why the gold-overlaid ark later made by Bezalel, in which the tablets were eventually kept, was called “the ark of the covenant.” (Jos 3:6, 11; 8:33; Jg 20:27; Heb 9:4) This legislation of the Ten Words was also called “the testimony” (Ex 25:16, 21; 40:20) and the “tablets of the Testimony” (Ex 31:18; 34:29), hence the expressions “the ark of the testimony” (Ex 25:22; Nu 4:5), and also “the tabernacle of the Testimony,” that is, the tent where the Ark was housed.—Ex 38:21. Concerning the first set of tablets, it is stated that they not only were made by Jehovah but were also “written on by God’s finger,” evidently denoting God’s spirit. (Ex 31:18; De 4:13; 5:22; 9:10) Likewise, the second set of tablets, although carved out by Moses, were written upon by Jehovah. When, at Exodus 34:27, Moses was told, “Write down for yourself these words,” reference was not to the Ten Words themselves, but, rather, as on a previous occasion (Ex 24:3, 4), he was to write down some of the other details pertaining to the covenant regulations. Hence, the pronoun “he” in Exodus 34:28b refers to Jehovah when it says: “And he [Jehovah, not Moses] proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.” Verse 1 shows this to be so. Later, when recalling these events, Moses confirms that it was Jehovah who duplicated the tablets.—De 10:1-4.
  20. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Queen Esther in Who wrote the tablets with the ten commandments?   
    *** it-2 p. 1085 Ten Words *** Source of Tablets. The Ten Words were first orally given at Mount Sinai by the angel of Jehovah. (Ex 20:1; 31:18; De 5:22; 9:10; Ac 7:38, 53; see also Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2.) Moses then ascended the mountain to receive the Ten Words in written form on two stone tablets, along with other commandments and instructions. During his extended 40-day stay, the people grew restless and made a molten calf to worship. Descending the mountain, Moses saw this spectacle of idolatry and threw down “the tablets [that] were the workmanship of God,” the very tablets upon which the Ten Words had been written, and shattered them.—Ex 24:12; 31:18–32:19; De 9:8-17; compare Lu 11:20. Jehovah later told Moses: “Carve out for yourself two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I must write upon the tablets the words that appeared on the first tablets, which you shattered.” (Ex 34:1-4) And so after another 40 days spent in the mountain, a duplicate copy of the Ten Words was obtained. These were kept by Moses in an ark of acacia wood. (De 10:1-5) The two tablets were called “the tablets of the covenant.” (De 9:9, 11, 15) Evidently this is why the gold-overlaid ark later made by Bezalel, in which the tablets were eventually kept, was called “the ark of the covenant.” (Jos 3:6, 11; 8:33; Jg 20:27; Heb 9:4) This legislation of the Ten Words was also called “the testimony” (Ex 25:16, 21; 40:20) and the “tablets of the Testimony” (Ex 31:18; 34:29), hence the expressions “the ark of the testimony” (Ex 25:22; Nu 4:5), and also “the tabernacle of the Testimony,” that is, the tent where the Ark was housed.—Ex 38:21. Concerning the first set of tablets, it is stated that they not only were made by Jehovah but were also “written on by God’s finger,” evidently denoting God’s spirit. (Ex 31:18; De 4:13; 5:22; 9:10) Likewise, the second set of tablets, although carved out by Moses, were written upon by Jehovah. When, at Exodus 34:27, Moses was told, “Write down for yourself these words,” reference was not to the Ten Words themselves, but, rather, as on a previous occasion (Ex 24:3, 4), he was to write down some of the other details pertaining to the covenant regulations. Hence, the pronoun “he” in Exodus 34:28b refers to Jehovah when it says: “And he [Jehovah, not Moses] proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.” Verse 1 shows this to be so. Later, when recalling these events, Moses confirms that it was Jehovah who duplicated the tablets.—De 10:1-4.
  21. Upvote
  22. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in Who are declared righteous for life ?   
    I'd see it as a call from heaven to go to heaven. 1 Cor 15:48-49 etc.
    At that time they were all destined for the Grave I would have thought. Ecc. 9:5, 10.
  23. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Annie Abbott in The Kingdom Of The Heavens   
    " Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah's name" question
    *** w70 1/15 p. 42 pars. 4-5 The Coming “Great Tribulation” Foreshadowed *** 4 On Tuesday, Nisan 11, three days before the Passover feast, he visited the rebuilt temple of Jerusalem. He had already foretold the destruction of this rebuilt Jerusalem; but now he plainly told the people worshiping at Jerusalem that their “house,” their religious temple, was abandoned to them. Then he added: “For I say to you, You will by no means see me from henceforth until you say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matt. 23:37-39) He left the temple never to be seen in it again.
    5 As Jesus was going out, his apostles called his attention to the temple buildings and stones. Then he made known the terrible result of the temple’s being abandoned to the people of Jerusalem by saying: “Do you not behold all these things? Truly I say to you, By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.” (Matt. 24:1, 2) Later that day he and his apostles looked at that temple from atop the Mount of Olives. As they looked down on Jerusalem and its temple, the apostles remembered what Jesus had said. This prompted them to ask the following question: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”—Matt. 24:3.
    Find article and read on - other questions will be answered.
    ========
    Who are the angels that will separate...
    Your fourth question is rather interesting. I will answer from the top of my head.(Others would help)
     I would think the literal angels as powerful spirit creatures are in a position to see what lawless acts are being performed, as opposed to humans who are limited and really not in a position to see much. So I would think it refers primarily to them. However, in Book of Revelation the overseers are referred to as angels in the right hand of Jesus Christ. These will also cooperate with the angels to reprove or separate (disfellowship) those practising lawlessness.
    Of course, we all know Jehovah has power to do all things. (See Matt 13:4 and Revelation chapters 2 and 3)
    "(Romans 8:28) 28 We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose. . . "
    Moved by love of righteousness, members of the congregation would bring to the attention of the elders any serious wrongdoing known to them so the congregations could be kept clean.
    "(Ephesians 4:16) 16 From him all the body is harmoniously joined together and made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed. "
    When each respective member functions properly, this contributes to the growth of the body as it builds itself up in love.
    =======
    Last days cut short question
    THE GREAT TRIBULATION WILL BE CUT SHORT (THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS THE END PART OF THE LAST DAYS)
    The Bible says the days of the great tribulation will be cut short. See article below. (If the last days were cut short we would already be in the new system of things. Further Jehovah is not telling us when the end would come. Jesus said "concerning that day and hour nobody knows...only the Father". (Matt 24:36) Jesus said he is coming as a thief in the night.)
    *** w15 5/1 p. 8 Many Will Survive the End—You Can Too ***
    "IS THE END NEAR? Many Will Survive the End—You Can Too
    The Bible informs us that the end will involve destruction: “There will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now . . . In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved.” (Matthew 24:21, 22) But God promises us that many humans will survive: “The world is passing away . . . , but the one who does the will of God remains forever.”—1 John 2:17. If you want to survive the passing of this world and ‘remain forever,’ what should you do? Should you start stockpiling supplies or making other physical preparations? No. The Bible strongly urges us to set different priorities. We read: “Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” (2 Peter 3:10-12) The context shows that “all these things” that are to be dissolved include the ruling elements of this corrupt world and all those who choose such rulership rather than God’s. Clearly, if we were to stockpile material goods, that would not save us from such a destruction. Really, our survival involves being devoted to Jehovah God and learning about the kind of conduct and deeds that please him. (Zephaniah 2:3) Rather than following the majority today and ignoring the clear signals that we are living in such important times, we need to “keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” Jehovah’s Witnesses can show you from the Bible how you can be a survivor of this upcoming day."
    ====
    Jesus taught us to pray God's will to be done here on earth as it is done in the heavens.  This will be done after God's Kingdom starts to rule toward the earth.
    If you attend the mid-week meeting of Jehovah's Witnesses and study the new publication "God's Kingdom Rules!" you will get answers to when God's Kingdom will come and His Will would take place here on earth. (See page 11, paragraph 15.)
     Proverbs 2:4,5:  If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;  5 Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God. I did not answer all your questions, others will help.
    Kind regards
  24. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to The Librarian in Sample Awake! Presentation 1 (December)   
    Sample Awake! Presentation 1 (December)
  25. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in Voluntary Contributions   
    Last Sunday for us. I am not sure what congregation you attend if that is not happening for you.
    Really, the contributions for the Worldwide work are managed by Jehovah's organisation with due attention given to relief measures where needed. And I read many reports regarding specific JW relief measures taking place in many parts of the world, in the international press, on jw.org, and even on this forum. The web page linked below is a good place to start if you want some detail.

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