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Witness

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Witness last won the day on August 5

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  1. Although most JWs cannot “see” what you say, I am appalled at the shameless approach the WT takes toward the role of the anointed these days. The decay of who the anointed are and their role as God’s priesthood, has been gradual; while at the same time, the exultation – the rise and power of the elder body – has become predominate. (Dan 8:9-12; 11:16; Rev 16:13,14) The assumption that the Holy Spirit works for this change, is blasphemy. Secular meaning of “blasphemy” - the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk. Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence to a deity, or sacred objects, or toward something considered sacred or inviolable. Some religions consider blasphemy to be a religious crime. (wikipedia) God’s holy people are His anointed ones. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Rev 5:9,10) They are His spiritual dwelling. His living Temple. (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Cor 6:19-20) Would He allow others to attack His dwelling with sacrilegious insults, for very long? The anointed heart is where Holy Spirit resides - the Spirit that is truth and should motivate the heart to teach it. (John 16:13; 1 John 2:27) Thus, this statement uttered by the WT, is blasphemy: “Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. w16 January p. 23-24” So, what is an anointing for? And why would a powerful group of people suppress the role of the anointed – who are in the minority? It is the “pouring out” of Holy Spirit onto the individual. It begins from outside of the physical body and eventually reaches every internal part of the person. (1 John 2:27; Rom 5:5) Can that be dismissed as ‘not necessarily having more holy spirit than another person’? If God’s anointed were allowed to speak about this supernatural event; if they were not fearful of the dual power hovering over them and the slander made against them if they do speak up, JWs would realize the difference between the “common and the holy”. (Ezek 44:23; Rev 11:1,2) That individual, a “living stone” of God’s Temple, should protect the Temple, but in a religious setting where another group of people has gained power over them, what happens to God’s Temple, and what are the consequences? (1 Cor 3:17) Who would create a religious setting where the anointed have gathered, yet are also slandered with falsehoods about themselves? (Rev 13:1,7; Rev 20:7-9) “Don’t let anyone deceive you about this in any way. That day cannot come unless a revolt takes place first, and the man of sin, the man of destruction, is revealed. 4 He opposes every so-called god or anything that is worshiped and places himself above them, sitting in God’s temple and claiming to be God. The anointed are God’s sons - they are “gods”. (John 10:34-36) They are to “house” the word of God, Truth from Christ, in their heart. (John 17:8) It is their role to defend God, to defend His dwelling. It is their role to defend Jesus Christ, the Head of God’s Temple. It is their role to remain “in Christ” and teach his truth. (Mal 2:7; John 15:4) They don’t need to defend a false priesthood that has warned ahead of time, that its role cannot be challenged. But sadly, in the WT, they have allowed the dismantling of their spiritual holy garments as God’s priests and handed them over, to lawlessness that rules over them, in the absence of truth. If the elder body was sanctioned by God, why the need to tell God’s Temple members, not to challenge the ‘representation’, of themselves? I wish JWs would see that the organization they ‘love’, is out to destroy God’s holy people. The “man of destruction” would say this: “…neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior”. The “man of destruction” would say this: “In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.” The “man of destruction”, would say this, about the Temple “stones” ‘bonding’ together: “Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.” "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house ("into a temple of the Spirit") to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 2:5 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Matt 24:2 “Peace and unity”, is needed run an earthly organization well, without interruptions in its agenda, of a feeding program directed by a wicked slave. (Matt 24:48-51) “Your prophets saw visions for you that were empty and deceptive; they did not reveal your iniquity and so restore your fortunes. They saw pronouncements for you that were empty and misleading.” Lam 2:14 “Dress in sackcloth and lament, you priests; wail, you ministers of the altar. Come and spend the night in sackcloth, you ministers of my God, because grain and drink offerings are withheld from the house of your God.” Joel 1:13 “house” – “household”, home”, temple. “Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.” Eph 2:19-21 “joined together”? Not when the anointed cannot “bond” in the WT. The “man of destruction” uses the weapon of deceit to destroy God’s Temple, household, today. When power is obtained over an individual, or a group of people, it has the ability to erode the people. Rev 13:6: “It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.” (see Heb 12:22) The biblical Greek meaning of “blasphemy”: “slander, detraction, speech injurious to another's good name” “impious and reproachful speech, injurious to divine majesty” “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.” 2 Thess 2:9,10,8 I wish JWs, including the elders, would “see” what’s coming.
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  2. I appreciate your work trying to make sense of a topic, since you feel the need, and have the authority to do so. But, in the case of the topic, Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body", I do feel most of the primary posters could fit your idea of “trolling”. Most everyone had gone off topic. I’m pretty old, so the term “trolling” had to require an internet definition. “An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic. “ I believe I’ve experienced that from a JW here who uses the term “hate-OCD” quite regularly, or another who has damned me completely. I'm not expecting them to be removed, even if one of them has received a warning. They can come in many forms. Most trolls do this for their own amusement Yes, we do have a writer on board who comes up with the most amusing, and often sarcastic comments directed to a poster; sometimes, when least expected. but other forms of trolling are done to push a specific agenda. Who wouldn’t be pushing their own agenda if they are commenting on a topic, within a forum open to both JWs and non JWs? I fully admit I do, and I feel that others can share the same opinion. Personally, I don’t comment for my own amusement, or to make rude statements about the person I am responding to. I comment because my agenda is about what is truth. Either we are all trolls, or we are engaging in a conversation with various opinions, no matter how heated they may become.
  3. Although we were taught while within the "Watchtower", that this "man of lawlessness" (2 Thess 2:3,4) pertains to "Christendom"; We now see that this is an identity that actually comes to dominate the authentic anointed.... the genuine priests of "God's temple" (1 Cor 3:16; Rev 5:10). This is in harmony with so many scriptures that speak about the final condition of the anointed while being trampled by Gentiles ("man of lawlessness") (Luke 21:24; Rev 13:10,7; Isa 5:5; 63:18; Dan 8:13; Rev 11:2). This interpretation is also in harmony with the following prophecies..... "You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God (Dan 12:3; Phil 2:15; Rev 1:20); I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly (Heb 12:22,23; Rev 14:1), on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. (“Baal-zephon” -
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    ) (Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8) I will ascend above the tops of the clouds (Mark 14:62; Matt 25:31; Jude 1:14); I will make myself like the Most High**.” (Isa 14:13,14) “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place." (Dan 11:36) "He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands (Rev 13:7) for a time, times and half a time." (Dan.7:25) "It opened its mouth to blaspheme God**, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven." (Rev 13:6) We are now enabled to discern the true condition of God's present people, despite the "Watchtower's" false claim of peace and security with God (1 Thess 5:3). - - - - - - - footnote: John 10:35 reads; "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came", yet the "Watchtower" has translated this as saying; "If he called 'gods' against whom the word of God came". Obviously, these two interpretations have opposite meanings. I offer for your consideration, the Greek word "pros", which is translated and interpreted by myself as meaning a "delivering" of God's Word to the 'gods'. The "Watchtower" Bible has translated the meaning as "against", as if these 'gods' stand condemned by God's Word. Yet the "Watchtower's" own Greek interlinear does not contain that in the Greek writing. Here is what can be found at:
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    4314 prós (a preposition) – properly, motion towards to "interface with" (literally, moving toward a goal or destination). 4314 /prós ("towards, with") indicates "extension toward a goal, with implied interaction or reciprocity (L & N, 1, 84.18), with "presumed contact and reaction" (L & N, 1, 84.23). 4314 (prós) naturally suggests the cycle of initiation and response (L-N, 1,90.25, 90.33). [4314 (prós) can mean "in view of," or "in light of, but never "against," except where the context specifically indicates an active exchange (interface) done in opposition.] From, “Who are the ‘gods’?” -
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  4. I think it is safe to say that people in general, gather inanimate objects to help them remember the places they have visited. It is not unusual for us to collect a rock or a piece of wood discovered in a natural setting, to remind us of our visit. I have a pile of rocks to prove it. Possibly we may boast to others of our find, as evidence that we once enjoyed an extraordinary place in the world. It seems we just have to collect a souvenir of some sort, something to bring the experience back into focus. It is commonplace to treasure an item previously owned by a loved one who died, by including it in our own possessions. It helps to reminds us of the person we miss. I had a sweater belonging to my father that I held onto for years. I just came across it a few days ago after it being packed away and forgotten. When I acquired it from his clothing after he died, that and one of his favorite checkered shirts provided a sense of security; flooding me with memories about him that I didn’t want to lose. I wore the shirt to tatters, using it as an additional covering on chilly spring or fall days. Just recently, I put the sweater out at the end of our road, along with other things for someone else to take care of. I realize that I don't need that sweater to create the image of my father in my mind. It had been out of my sight for a number of years, yet I had never forgot my father’s generous smile, nor was I unable to hear the deep quality of his voice in my mind. I can still draw on experiences of his love and patience for me, ready to provide comfort, while not always knowing why. I have not lost the image of my father, in my mind. There can be a dangerous projection of imagery, that can transgress our relationship with God. This imagery leads to idol worship. In 1 John 5:21, the Amplified Bible reads such: “Little children (believers, dear ones), guard yourselves from idols—[false teachings, moral compromises, and anything that would take God’s place in your heart].” The nation of Israel was highly influenced by what its leaders taught. Israel’s kings promoted worship to false gods, while many times adjoining it to their worship of YHVH. (1 Kings 12:28-30) When deep in idolatrous practices, their pride and self-confidence resulted in forgetting their God; worshiping Him “in pretense” (“deception” – Jer 3:10), with an unfaithful heart, which resulted in Israel suffering severely. (Deut 6:14,15; Jer 3:6-10; 1 Kings 12:28-30; Judges 3:7; 10:10) It was only a minority of Israel’s kings who stressed worship to be given exclusively to God. (2 Kings 18:1,4-6) (Exod 20:4; Matt 22:35-38) “But the Lord your God you shall fear; and He will deliver you from the hand of all your enemies.” However they did not obey, but they followed their former rituals. 41 So these nations feared the Lord, yet served their carved images; also their children and their children’s children have continued doing as their fathers did, even to this day.” 2 Kings 17:39-41 “Then Samuel said to all the house of Israel, “If you are returning to the Lord with all your heart, remove the foreign gods and the Asheroth from among you and direct your hearts to the Lord and serve Him only; and He will rescue you from the hand of the Philistines.” 1 Sam 7:3 I came across a statement under the topic “image” in the organization’s magazines. It said that the early Jews “had a tendency to attribute Jehovah’s acts to idols”. The organization has created their own altered version of the Almighty God. There are personality traits assigned to “Jehovah” that are not those of YHVH; the God whom we must give exclusive devotion. (Deut 13:4; 1 Sam 12:24; Col 3:23,24) To serve “Jehovah”, requires serving the idol – the organization. (Rev 13:1,4) The spirit of “Jehovah” is said to be infused within the idol/organization, allowing it to become the channel of “Jehovah’s acts”. (Rev 13:15) Likewise “Jehovah’s acts” are controlled by the operations of the organization – by those who direct it. (Rev 13:11,12) If the organization experiences negative results, one must “wait on Jehovah” to correct it; if it experiences positive results, “Jehovah” has blessed its efforts. It is assumed that they are spiritually connected – a “spirit-directed organization”. The counterfeit personality of YHVH as “Jehovah”, has “breathed” spirit into the organization. This is the teaching of the WT. Yet the reality is, a false prophet has been granted to “breathe” spirit into the idol. (Rev 13:11-15) (Rev 13:1,2) At Rev 13:15 it reads; "The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed." Rev 13:8 tells us, that all the land, worships this beast (not its image). How is that idolatry accomplished, through the events of Rev 13:15? We see a very interesting relationship, between the actual Beast, and its own image ... and the effect and result, to those who worship. First, the false prophet uses the power given him (Rev 9:1), to give the Beast an image of spirit-inspiration, so that it CAN speak, and, condemn to death. How can a mere Idol, do such things? (Ps 115:4-8; Isa 44:10,17,18,20) Please let me illustrate: Imagine that you have respect for the laws of the land, and wish to obey the authority and power of the police. If a man approaches you and shows you his police badge, you will comply with all his demands. But suppose a different man approaches you, and he does not have a badge, nor is he a representative of the police. Do you still comply with all his demands? Essentially, there is no difference between the two human men. The only difference between them, is that one of them represents an identity that you respect to have the power and authority to direct your behavior. The police officer is the tangible representative of that image of authority and power. It is the same with the beast and its image. Once the false prophet gives the Beasts' Image an appearance of being divinely inspired; the tangible beast (as the physical manifestation of its' own image), is empowered with the authority to judge and kill ... thereby giving this unique idol, the ability to speak, through its tangible representatives. This causes the beast itself to be worshiped, because it represents its own image. I hope that the present fulfillment of this scenario is perceived in the minds of readers. I know this explanation, sounds convoluted. But this is the greatest and last-ditch effort and machination of Satan, to take captive the remaining ones of the woman's seed. He is the crooked and twisted serpent, and the very father of deceptions. In the time of the end, Satan finally creates an idol, that can speak. Pearl Doxsey – “The Beast and the Image / An Idol that can speak” The Beast “speaks” through its “tangible representatives” – the “divine” elder body/false priesthood including the governing leaders; while the representatives of God’s living Temple, the ambassadors of Christ/ anointed sons of God, are restricted from speaking. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 13:15)(Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:5-7) Their spiritual “sacrifices of praise” have been cut off and replaced with “burnt offerings” to an idol. (Dan 8:24,25; 11:31,32,37-39) King Josiah was one of the few kings who ‘rid the land of idols’ during his reign. (2 Kings 23:3-5) In the organization’s drama about King Josiah, there is a scene where a son is alerting his father, who is a priest of the god Baal, of Josiah’s intentions to destroy all forms of idol worship. He tells his father, “You don’t understand. Josiah plans to tear down all the high places”. “Oh, I understand alright. When his extremist ideas become the law of the land, there will no longer be any joy. No tolerance, no freedom of worship, only narrow-minded rules and oppressed people. Do you understand that?” We can flip this comment around and direct it to the organization that produced it. Through evidence of its “narrow-minded” man-made rules, intolerance to scriptural independent thinking through a regulated spiritual feeding, we can comprehend the deceitful irony in this comment. (Rev 13:16,17) The anointed Temple members of God’s spiritual dwelling must respect the unity of all, by not bonding as a body; they are barred from offering their sacrifices of praise and truth under their Head. The organization’s mask of holiness falls away, to reveal its idolatrous apostasy. (Isa 5:20; 2 Cor 11:14,15) Can you see that the spirit that operates the organization, is the spirit of Satan? (Rev 13:2) The truth in Christ sets us free of oppression and slavery to an idol. (John 8:32) In Christ, we are not locked down to serve an earthly organization and the commands of men. This ideology contradicts God’s word. (Ps 97:10; John 14:21; Gal 5:1; Rom 1:25; Col 2:8) Marduk or “Bel/Baal” (meaning lord, master) was the god of the Babylonians – an agricultural deity, and storm god, as well as possessing benevolent traits. At his side is a dragon, with “a head of a snake, hind feet claws of a large bird of prey, front paws of a lion and the tail of a deadly scorpion.” This god was the creator of the world, including humans, and was Babylon’s protector while housed in the temple in Babylon. Marduk's reign decreed unity among all people. Under his rule, was a divine force of lesser gods, whose role was to care for and supply the needs of all humans in the scope of their supervision. These humans accomplished all other work of the Babylonian society, out of respect for the gods and the will of a compassionate and caring Marduk, who ruled with justice. We are well aware that Satan is the source of false worship, false gods and idols; and these practices and have crept through time, down to his most profound machination against the anointed remnant in the last days. (Rev 12:3; 13:1; 12:4;13:1,7) Personally, I believe it is ingenious for him to use his previous ideas, utilizing personalities of past gods to alter one’s perception and worship to be given the true God, into one of blasphemy. And, we see similarities in spiritual “Babylon” happening today. The false “gods”/elder body/locust-scorpions promote organizational unity among its people. JWs do the work that the “gods” have no time for, while these gods supply all with spiritual food. In turn, JWs willingly obey and respect the “faithful and discreet slave” including the entire elder body, while “Jehovah” watches protectively from above. His spirit resides in his “temple” – the organization. (Dan 11:36; Gal 4:8; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 9:3-5) It appears that Satan’s “last ditch effort” as Pearl called it, has required a mixed plethora of past forms of deceit, using his “gods”/false priesthood of today, to hunt down and “overcome the saints”. (Ezek 13:20-21; Jer 5:26; 2 Pet 2:12-14,17,18; Col 2:8; Rev 13:6,7,10) It was a prophetess that spoke God’s words to Josiah and all of Israel, about their hideous practices of idolatry: She said to them, “This is what the Lord God of Israel says: Say to the man who sent you to me, 24 ‘This is what the Lord says: I am about to bring disaster on this place and on its inhabitants, fulfilling all the curses written in the book that they read in the presence of the king of Judah, 25 because they have abandoned me and burned incense to other gods so as to anger me with all the works of their hands. My wrath will be poured out on this place, and it will not be quenched.’ 2 Chron 34:19-25 Also today, it is a prophetess in the spirit of “Elijah”, who carries a similar message to spiritual “Israel”. They have been influenced into idolatry by a leading Harlot, directing/”riding” the Beast organization. (Isa 52:1,2,8,11,12; Mal 3:1-6; Matt 17:11; Matt 25:6; Rev 11:1-3) “Israel” has allowed God’s Temple to be ransacked and trampled by an abomination standing in the midst of them. (Deut 32:16; Ezek 44:10,12,13,6-9) (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) “But when you see the abomination of desolation (“I.e. the detestable one who desecrates the temple.” …standing [in the temple sanctuary (1 Cor 3:16,17)] where it ought not to be (let the reader understand) then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.” Mark 13:17 They have allowed their worship to God to be compromised by “evil ways”. (Jer 11:9-12) Keeping their faith in the “mountainlike organization” is stressed, and paramount for salvation, over and above, one’s whole-souled worship to YHVH. (Deut 32:37; Rev 6:15-17; Deut 32:4) Hear the word of the Lord, you descendants of Jacob, all you clans of Israel. 5 This is what the Lord says: “What fault did your ancestors find in me, that they strayed so far from me? They followed worthless idols and became worthless themselves. The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord?’ Those who deal with the law did not know me; the leaders rebelled against me. The prophets prophesied by Baal, following worthless idols. 9 “Therefore I bring charges against you again,” declares the Lord. “And I will bring charges against your children’s children. Cross over to the coasts of Cyprus and look, send to Kedar and observe closely; see if there has ever been anything like this: 11 Has a nation ever changed its gods? (Yet they are not gods at all.) But my people have exchanged their glorious God for worthless idols. 12 Be appalled at this, you heavens, and shudder with great horror,” declares the Lord. 13 “My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. “How can you say, ‘I am not defiled; I have not run after the Baals’? See how you behaved in the valley; consider what you have done. You are a swift she-camel running here and there, 24 a wild donkey accustomed to the desert, sniffing the wind in her craving— in her heat who can restrain her? Any males that pursue her need not tire themselves; at mating time they will find her. 25 Do not run until your feet are bare and your throat is dry. But you said, ‘It’s no use! I love foreign gods, and I must go after them.’ “As a thief is disgraced when he is caught, so the people of Israel are disgraced— they, their kings and their officials, their priests and their prophets. 27 They say to wood, ‘You are my father,’ and to stone, ‘You gave me birth.’ They have turned their backs to me and not their faces; yet when they are in trouble, they say, ‘Come and save us!’ 28 Where then are the gods you made for yourselves? Let them come if they can save you when you are in trouble! For you, Judah, have as many gods as you have towns. On your clothes is found the lifeblood of the innocent poor, though you did not catch them breaking in. Yet in spite of all this 35 you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’ Jeremiah, chapter 2
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    The Living Idol Fallen Star Who is the False Prophet Who Gives Breath to the Image of the Beast? Who is Your God? Who are the “gods”? “The Disgusting Thing Standing in a Holy Place” Matt 24:15
  5. Its effect can lead to one's destruction.
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  6. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt 19:28 There is no way they could “judge the twelve tribes of Israel” - the anointed, who lived throughout a 2,000 year period, unless they were in heaven with Christ. 1 Cor 6:3 – “Don't you know that we will judge angels -- how much more matters of this life?” Eph 2:26 – “He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus”
  7. You do prefer mudslinging with nothing to back your accusations spiritually. I gave you definitions, and told you not to take my word for it but do your own research. I said, use the scriptures to show you the meaning, but it is easier to accuse on opinion, instead of utilizing the word of God. Tartarus, is the deepest part of the bottomless pit - of the abyss, of Hades, of Sheol.
  8. (1) - interact directly with God’s people “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not.” w02 8/1 p. 13-14 (2) - show by its actions that it is an enemy of Jehovah and his people ( God’s “people” - Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10) "Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! w02 8/1 p. 13-14 “In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.” “Worse still, if they received special treatment, anointed Christians might find it difficult to remain humble.” w16 January p. 24 And who does receive “special treatment” over God’s chosen priesthood? “Why should the elders be shown double honor? All in the congregation are to be shown honor, but hardworking elders especially so w86 6/1 pp. 20-25 “The beast was allowed to speak arrogant and insulting things. It was given authority to act for 42 months. 6 It opened its mouth to insult God, to insult His name and His tent—those who are living in heaven.” Rev 13:5,6 What is God’s “tent”? It is where God’s spirit resides – in the hearts of the anointed priesthood: “Don’t ·you [you all; C the verb is plural] know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you [C just as God’s presence filled the tabernacle; Ex. 40:34–38]? 7 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person, because God’s temple is holy ·and you are that temple [or and you are holy; L which is what you are].” 1 Cor 3:16,17 (3) compete with the rival king. Who is king over the anointed? Is it the governing body, or is it Jesus Christ? Apparently, the elders have more power over the anointed as seen in the above statements, than what Jesus Christ has. If that power is challenged, the anointed one – anyone – is disfellowshipped – SHUNNED – and considered dead. Rev 13:15 Since the anointed are members of the Body of Christ, and the elder body readily judges them as they wish, WHO is competing with the rival king, Jesus Christ, who is Head of his Body? Eph 1:22; 1 Cor 12:12; Col 2:10 There are no “sacrifices” of praise and truth, made by the anointed priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5 The elder body is in charge of that, of offering idolatrous sacrifices to a god of fortresses. Dan 11:38 “Yes, [this horn] magnified itself, even [matching itself] against the Prince of the host [of heaven]; and from Him the continual [burnt offering] was taken away and the place of [God’s] sanctuary was cast down and profaned.” Dan 8:11 Spiritual food offered by a false prophet is regulated, to come only from their lips. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:16,17 The “king of the north” is among you, as the “man of lawlessness” sitting/ruling in God’s Temple. The elder body, who are exalted over God’s priesthood, is the locust army of both Joel 2 and Revelation 9. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) “But when you see the [d]abomination of desolation “I.e. the detestable one who desecrates the temple. See note Matt 24:15. standing [in the temple sanctuary] where it ought not to be (let the reader understand) then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.” Mark 13:17 You have been deceived. "2 Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], 4 who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I was telling you these things? " 2 Thess 2:1-5 The elder body has 'taken its seat' as God's priesthood - who ARE the Temple of God. If I was an elder, I would remove myself from the organization, now. (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 16:10)
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  9. "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11 Have you done this? I have. I do not swallow down anyone's teachings any longer, without using the scriptures to verify if that person's teachings are true. Allen, just as your identities on here are many, yet you deny their existence, your leaders deny the existence of their own lies. And you continue to follow them; which shows that birds of a feather, flock together - whether in truth, or in lies.
  10. Revelation only gives one account of the appearance of Gog and Magog. Geoffrey Jackson says this happens during Armageddon. That means, it cannot happen after Armageddon and into the Kingdom of God. Gog and Magog do not appear twice. So, he has made up his own narrative by saying another "test" will arrive after Armageddon. And all JWs should be challenging his teaching. "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water." 1 Pet 3:18-20 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” Rom 10:7 “For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell (“Tartarus”) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly” 2 Pet 2:4-5 αρταρόω tartaróō, tar-tar-o'-o; from Τάρταρος Tártaros (the deepest abyss of Hades) “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.” Rev 20:1-3 “Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison” Rev 20:7 They are one in the same. You must be suffering some confusion about "hell" being translated as "Tartarus", since your doctrine says, it is the "common grave of mankind". When Jesus died, he was in the abyss as Paul brought out - the "bottomless pit" of darkness. Wow. To think that a God of love is the source of wicked testing. God is not the source of testing. Remember, he warned Adam and Eve about resisting the “forbidden fruit”. He gave them free will to choose. It is Satan who desires to destroy all life, who is the source of our tests. He was that “tree of knowledge.” “Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He himself tempts no one.” James 1:13 Since God always warns us of impending disaster for our actions, in your “thousand years” to come, will He warn you of Satan’s deceitful “test” that you will face? Since you believe this test will arrive long into the Kingdom, then there should be warning about its happening. I only see warning in the scriptures about Satan's final test happening now. Should I call you a false teacher for saying that God is the source of our testing? Well, that's debatable. I know you are influenced by false teachers, but as Jesus warns all of us - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matt 12:37
  11. I'm just borrowing your quote, not necessarily directing my comment to you. In this video ,”Gog of Magog” is mentioned as coming against JWs or “God’s people” during Armageddon, since apparently by that time, no other religion will be in existence. So, JWs are basically surrounded by "Gog of Magog". It then mentions, the thousand-year reign of Christ begins. Geoffrey Jackson states, “that destruction of the wicked will usher in the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. After the final test at the end of the thousand years, what will be the situation…?” He doesn’t say how that final test will come about. It must be a surprise for JWs to find out…in time! But really, how could he dare mention it, when God’s Word says, “Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Rev 20:7-10 Hmmm. Maybe the GB really believe that the "thousand years" has ended, and Satan has been let loose out of the abyss to deceive God's saints. “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand." Matt 24:23,24 I can't link the video successfully, but it can be found under "Programs and Events", the Annual Meeting for 2018, where Geoffrey Jackson gives his part.
  12. You never did any research on the meaning of Hades, Sheol, and the abyss. You are satisfied in believing what men tell you without solid scriptural proof. That is voluntary blindness, Arauna. Again, who was in the abyss when Jesus preached to them after his physical death? They were spirits who had sinned, who were “in prison” or bound in the abyss; and spiritually “dead” in their trespasses, just as a physical person can be “dead”, living in their sins. (1 Pet 3:19,20; Jude 1:6; Eph 2:1) The chains that Satan was bound with, were spiritual chains that veiled his perceptive thought process. He was prevented from misleading the anointed with deceit. That’s what it’s all about, Arauna; it is the war against Christ’s seed and the seed of Satan, culminating in Armageddon. Gen 3:15 Why would this war re-surge once again after Armageddon? Armageddon settles it, once and for all. (Joel 3) The restriction placed on Satan's thought process, changed when he was released from “not perceiving” how to accomplish destroying the anointed. But he was still able to cause trouble to the rest of the world while in this mental restricted state. To the anointed who lived during his time of “not perceiving”, Satan could test them as he demanded that they be. Yet Jesus said to the faithful, “I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.” Luke 10:19 It doesn’t mean that they had to let down their guard against him. Maintaining their faith took constant alertness. And, through their faith, they were not taken “captive by empty philosophy”. Col 1:18 But they didn't experience a sweeping form of deception - a plan, that captured all anointed into once place – the organization. (Rev 13:10) And another "again"; what is released from the abyss that your deceiving organization terms as the anointed ones? Yet in Joel 2 they call an army that comes against God's people? It is the locust-scorpions, who persecute “those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads”. (Rev 9:4; 7:4) Why would the anointed priesthood persecute their own brothers in Christ? They are the ones who receive a “seal of God” on their foreheads, but only if found refined and faithful. Can they allow false teachings to settle in their heart and still receive the seal of God? No. Can they receive not only God’ seal, but the seal of an organization – a deceptive Beast that gladly shuts up all dissenters by judgment as “dead”? Rev 13:15 What “tramples” the Temple of God? The “man of lawlessness” that “sits”/rules over the anointed in the organization. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) THEY are the locust-scorpions who have replaced God’ priesthood. They have allowed the enemy to overcome them. "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. " Rev 13:7 Yes, Satan is out, employing his greatest deception over God’s priesthood/saints/holy people, and all JWs, through the mouths of false prophets. Rev 13:11,12; Rev 16:12-16 He was "abyssed" from instigating this plan on the last anointed in Christ, in the first century. That is when the symbolic "thousand years" began. There is no other deception to come, once this is settled. The messenger God sends in Malachi 3, is to the “sons of Levi” – the Levitical priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9) They must be refined from their sins of idolatry toward an organization; of their ignorance of God’s Temple, and their rejection of Christ as their head by accepting instead, the headship of men who commit sin and all JWs tolerate it. " He will act like a refiner and a purifier of silver. He will purify Levi’s sons and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will bring acceptable offerings to the Lord. 4 The offerings from Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the past, as in years long ago. 5 “I will come to judge you. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers, lying witnesses, and those who cheat workers out of their wages and oppress widows and orphans. I will also testify against those who deprive foreigners of their rights. None of them fear me,” says the Lord of Armies." Mal 3:3-5 It is true, in the organization of "peace and security", no one fears the judgement of God, to come upon His people. You believe it will be judgment against those on the outside, and not where His anointed priesthood exists. 1 Thess 5:3
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