Witness

Okay. Is this why the GB are saying a "Gog of Magog" will attack JWs and the anointed "Israel" in your rank? I don't recall the GB blaming this attack on unfaithful JWs in your rank, do you?

Can you tell me of an event in the Bible when other nations attacked Israel and took them captive or conquered them, simply because they were faithful to God’s decrees? I know of none. Gog of Magog in Ezekiel 38 attacked Israel because they were sinning and committing idolatry. (Ezek 38:8-11; 39:21-24) Wt. and you, can’t pull those names out of a hat and change the reason why they came upon God’s people. You can’t take a historic event based on the unfaithfulness practiced by Israel, and change its dynamics by saying today’s political nations will attack for no reason; that they will come upon a faithful, obedient people. Nope, that is not consistent with the examples we have in God’s word. “These things happened to them as examples and were written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come. So let the one who thinks he is standing be careful that he does not fall. ” 1 Cor 10:11,12 In the last days, God’s people are taken captive (Col 2:8) and are slandered/trampled by the Beast from the Sea. Are you aware of this? Is it because they are following God’s decrees, as you believe, or because they were influenced by their deceptive choice to follow the decrees of men and their idol? ( Col 2:8; Rev 9:1-6; 13:10,18, 5-7; Matt 24:24,25; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) They’ve fallen into a snare; still, they made the choice. (Ezek 12:10,11,13; Jer 5:26; Eccl 9:12) God allows it because Satan demands to test each anointed one; especially before the Kingdom arrives. (Luke 22:31; Amos 3:5; 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 12:1-4) To be consistent with scriptural examples, when your version of Gog and Magog come upon millions at the end of your thousand-year doctrine after Armageddon, will it be because God’s people are faithful, or because they are sinning in paradise? Sin in paradise for an immeasurable amount of time? That’s what your doctrine is alluding to. When Satan deceives, sin follows. (Rev 20:7) “But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, Are JWs leaders lovers of themselves? Most certainly, they have an air of arrogance while also appearing pious. They have convinced their followers to be lovers of themselves. Contrary to scriptural examples, they have convinced them that nations will attack them, not because they are sinning, but because they are righteous. …lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, (the Father, the Son, Isa 9:6, and the New Covenant “woman”/mother, Gal 4:26) ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. 5 They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these. 6 For some of these insinuate themselves into households (the preaching work) and captivate weak women(2 Cor 11:2-4) who are overwhelmed with sins and led along by various passions. 7 Such women are always seeking instruction, yet never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Traditionally called, "new light". And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people—who have warped minds and are disqualified in the faith—also oppose the truth. (2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12) 9 But they will not go much further, for their foolishness will be obvious to everyone, just like it was with Jannes and Jambres." 2 Tim 3 I know you would never consider that these scriptures apply to the organization and its people, but it isn’t called a Wild Beast from the Sea, simply for nothing. (Rev 13:1,2; Isa 57:20) Armageddon, Time Table of Kingdoms

Indeed.

When the Beast/organization does disfellowship/depose the GB, it will not be for their testimony about Jesus. The beast will "hate the harlot" and expose her corruption. God will put it into their hearts. Rev. 17:12,13,15-18. Rev 18:4-8

It is a continuous accusation against the anointed. Each anointed one must conquer Satan. What's the next verse? "They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; for they did not love their lives to the point of death." Rev 12:11 Is this a testimony about the organization? The anointed under the "woman" covenant, have been spiritually "killed" by the Beast/organization for their testimony of Jesus. "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went away to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep God’s commandments and hold to the testimony about Jesus." Rev 12:17 Rev 11:3,5,7,11 Do you really think the GB will not fight tooth and nail to prevent themselves from suffering for Jesus' sake? They fight to defend their rights as an earthly organization, while all who speak of Jesus as the way to salvation, AND NOT THE ORGANIZATION, suffer at the hands of the GB through disfellowshipping and shunning. Any who do suffer for Christ's truth, are following the path he took. Matt 5:11,12

“During Judgment Day all the people will learn about Jehovah, and they will be given every opportunity to obey and serve him. It is under such paradise conditions that Jesus Christ and his 144,000 associate kings will judge humankind.” Pe chapt. 21, pp 175-183 “The thousand-year reign of Christ is a judgment day. “ w60 5/15 pp. 313-318 Men’s doctrine, as is yours. “If anyone hears my words and does not obey them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has a judge; the word I have spoken will judge him at the last day.” John 12:47,48

Sorry for all the errors in spelling. I wrote this in a hurry this morning.

It’s a good question; and the whole world today is still lying in the power of the wicked. Luke 4:5,6 - “Thenthe devil led him up to a high place and showed him in a flash all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “To you will grant this whole realm—and the glory that goes along with it, for it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish.” Until death is destroyed in Armageddon, (1 Cor 15:26) Satan will have his influence in the “world” of mankind; especially in the “word” of God’s “inhabited earth”, His land in the anointed. (Acts 7:48-50; 1 Cor 3:9;16 John 14:23; Eph 2:22) It doesn’t mean that Satan was totally inactive when abyssed, but that he couldn’t “perceive” a plan of deceit against Christ’s brothers. Satan wanted Jesus to be swayed by his offers of riches and power, etc. He wanted Jesus to answer to him, to be his slave. This would guarantee that Satan’s kingdom, his dominance over the world would continue; but Jesus conquered death by his obedience to the Father and for sacrificing his life, so that we could obtain eternal life by believing and obeying his teachings. The anointed members of his body must also conquer death; and Satan knows this, which is why he demanded to sift each one of them as “wheat”. Luke 22:31 Okay, Hades is the abyss, and is from two Greek words: From ἄλφα (G1) (as negative particle) “not” and εἴδω (G1492) to perceive Hades basically means unable to perceive. It is spiritual darkness and not a literal place, but a consignment to spiritual death – a state void of life and light in the Father and Christ. When Jesus figuratively “chained” Satan in the abyss, he was restricted from deceiving Christ’s apostles and all anointed until the “thousand-year” reign of Christ that began in the first century, came to an end. The message had to preached in truth, not to be influenced by deception from the devil. “Finally, pray for us, brothers and sisters, that the Lord’s message may spread quickly and be honoredas in fact it was among you, 2 and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil people. For not all have faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one. 4 And we are confident about you in the Lord that you are both doing—and will do—what we are commanding. 5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts toward the love of Godand the endurance of Christ. 2 Thess 3:1-5 While Jesus was on earth: “Then the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name!” 18 So he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Look, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions and on the full force of the enemy, and nothing will hurt you.” This was the event, and the outcome of Satan’s abyssing – “falling”. (Rev 20:1-3) The preaching of truth by the early anointed was not deterred. But, what did Satan accomplish against the apostles and the anointed then? Did they fall into idolatry? No. Most were killed, just as Jesus was killed; yet Satan was never able to deceive them, and they died blameless, as spiritual “virgins”. (Rev 14:1-5) They never faced the end time Beast of Revelation 13, something that the book makes a point to bring out. “Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or his image and had refused to receive his mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Rev 20:4 We are told that in last days, false prophets would DECEIVE the elect. (Matt 24:24,25) How? Satan was let loose from the chains of “not perceiving”, and enacted his plan through false prophets, to DECEIVE the remaining ones of the woman’s seed. How? By flooding them with lies. (2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 12:15) And yes, the anointed have been deceived by falsehoods that they readily ingest, as they support the development of the organization’s existence. (Matt 7:15-20) They have been gathered together in one place, taken captive under “empty philosophy”(Col 2:8; Rev 13:10), yet “scattered” throughout the world as not “one stone upon another”. (1 Pet 2:5; Luke 21:6) They are unable to bond and study the word of God under Jesus Christ, according to your leadership. They have been sarcastically blasphemed, God’s sanctuary has been blasphemed, and ”Gentile” elders have authority over them. (Rev 13:5-7; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2) Can you see that anyone not anointed as God’s spiritual dwelling (Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16) wh tells God’s chosen people, what they can and cannot do, is basically a spiritual “war” of words, and a sign that the temple of God in the anointed has been trampled down by the administration of the organization? Dan 7:7,23; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) This deception is so great that JWs readily accept false predictions and false teachings. These are never viewed as lies, but as the need for “new LIGHT”. Light comes from Christ, whom you believe guides the organization. A false teaching would never come from God or Jesus Christ, but JWs believe it does. If they understood what truth and light from Jesus Christ truly is, then the veil would be lifted from their eyes. Instead, JWs believe God’s Spirit directs this organization, its failed teachings, and its leadership. That is truly an amazing feat of Satan to turn the Father and the Son, into the liars. Since JWs are so nonchalant about false teachings from the leaders, they have effectively been “blinded” by deceiving spirits and demonic teachings. (1 Tim 4:1) “ But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this age (yes, this age – not in the age to come) has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospelof Christ, who is the image of God.” 2 Cor 4:3,4 Is your gospel that Wt. says is sourced in God’s Spirit through Jesus Christ, “GLORIOUS” when it stumbles over doctrine? The leaders cannot understand the meaning of the scriptures which they admit to – the very leaders who have taken the bait that Satan offered Jesus in Luke chapter 4. They have built their empire of riches, and power and authority over the anointed members of Jesus’ Body. Yes, Satan has been let loose “for a little while” to deceive the anointed into sin and idolatry. (2 Cor 11:2-4,13-15) The organization has become their idol. (Rev 13:4). His release brings about the great tribulation and Armageddon to come upon the anointed and those with them. It is a spiritual war, not the physical fulfillment in Satan’s world. (Luke 17:20; 2 Cor 10:3-5) Do you notice who the false prophet and Beast from the Sea “gather” for the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 16:13-16? It is the “kings of the earth” – Christ’s kings. (Rev 1:5) Rev 20:7-9 talks about this gathering of the ”camp of the saints”. Gog and Magog of Revelation 20:7,8 are more descriptive terms for the two Beasts of Revelation – one is “Satan’s organization” as Wt. even calls it; the other, a line of false prophets who direct it and poison the living water of truth. (Rev 8:10-11; 9:1-5;13:1,11,12) Everything that the two Beasts accomplish is cloaked under the veil of “righteousness” in the organization. JWs have on their forehead and hands, (in their minds, hearts and through their actions) the identifying mark of the Wt. organization - the mark of the Beast. (Rev 13:4,15-18) Jesus explained that there would be a day when his disciples would be “thrown out of the synagogue” (congregation) by people who believe it is a service to God. ( John 16:2). It is disfellowshipping, a spiritual “death”; and what the false prophets who guide the “inspired” Beast from the Sea practice on those who refuse to bear its mark and who reject the “buying and selling” of the false prophet’s teachings. (Rev 13:15-17; 11:1-3-11) What happens when judgment from God takes place? He fulfills it, once and for all. How much more so it is with Satan. “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning sin and righteousness and judgment— 9 concerning sin, becausethey do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.” John 16:7-11 Jesus was writing to the “world” of his day. He was writing about those under covenant with God. “Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.” John 3:19-21 Satan has been condemned. He will not be “abyssed” after Armageddon, but the condemnation against him will be carried out at the end of the war of the Great Day of God the Almighty. Rev 20:10

For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything He does, and will show him greater deeds than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. 22 Furthermore, the Father does not judge anyone, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all peoplewill honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 “I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the One who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the solemn truth, a time is coming—and is now here—when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, thus He has granted the Son to have life in himself, 27 and he has granted the Sonauthority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.” John 5 In the resurrection, all people will "stand" to receive their judgment. I see nothing in these words that signifies a temporary promise of “eternal life” in the Kingdom of God to those who hear the voice of the Son of God and believe in him. I see Jesus being given the authority to judge ALL who have lived, executing judgment on ALL who refuse to accept him as the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE. Ironically, the thousand-year doctrine of men has permeated many organizations in Christendom, the very religions that the Wt condemns. It sure is a pervasive teaching that has robbed the power of God and Jesus Christ to grant any who have lived, and whose hearts are found worthy, to live eternally in the Kingdom of God. There will be no more death a thousand years later. "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” Rev 21:4 One’s choice to desire and believe truth comes down to the power of men’s doctrine, over the power of God’s Word, in the heart of the individual.

Christ’s kingdom of a thousand years establishes who among those chosen to serve as God’s priests in His Temple, will rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. From the Happiness Book: “Christ appeared to his followers and assured them that he was alive and active. Then Jesus ascended to heaven. Concerning this, the apostle Peter wrote: “He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”—1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 28:18. Starting at that time, in 33 C.E., Christ began ruling over the Christian congregation, and his followers happily acknowledged his lordship and heavenly position. (Colossians 1:13, 14) Yet it was not God’s purpose for Jesus to begin ruling over the world of mankind and the universe then.” A rare truth from the Wt, showing Christ was actively ruling over the “kings of the earth” – the members of his body. They are being judged by the “sword” of God. This thousand year kingdom is referred to as “the kingdom of His beloved Son”. Col 1:13 IT IS CHRIST’S KINGDOM OF A SYMBOLIC THOUSAND YEARS. Not all chosen were faithful; many became Christ’s enemies. Ps 110:1,2 “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from usto demonstratethat all of them do not belong to us.” 1 John 2:19 Col 2:18,19 – “Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.” Christ’s kingdom that began in the first century was the time of preparing his administrative rule for the Kingdom, to “bring all things together in Christ”. Eph 1:7-10 Your belief that another judgment time happens after Armageddon, misleads the people you take your message to. Or, do you not tell them that when first studying with them? Is that bomb dropped after they have been sucked into the organization? To show them the promise of Revelation 21:1-4 and then DESTROYING THAT PROMISE by telling them that there will be a great deceit by Satan a thousand years later to purge the undeserving among them…IS A WICKED, DEMONIC LIE. DON'T NEGATE THE PROMISE. Once the Kingdom of God is ushered in, there will be no end to the peace that God promises to those whom Jesus has given everlasting life. Beware, those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness into light and light into darkness, who turn bitter into sweet and sweet into bitter Isa 5:29 Your leaders have taken what is “good” in the promises of Rev 21, and made them evil. They have taken a hope that is was “sweet” and turned it into a bitter, unreliable promise made by God. The “second death” is a spiritual death. We can lose our physical life and still be considered “alive” spiritually. We can be physically alive, and be considered by God as spiritually “dead”. “What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the housetops. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:27,28 "The Spirit is the one who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63 "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For the things they do in secret are shameful even to mention. 13 But all things being exposed by the light are made visible. 14 For everything made visible is light, and for this reason it says: “Awake,O sleeper! Rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you!” Eph 5:11-14

There is no “thousand year period” after Armageddon where people will need to reach perfection to be judged….AGAIN. We are judged, all of us, by what we do in our lifetime. Your doctrine says that people like the prophets, and the ancient ones who were faithful during their life on earth, those who suffered because of their devotion to God, (NOT to an organization) must be judged again when they reach “perfection”. And THEY are going to be taught by JWs? By elders who lie in court and hide child abuse in the congregations? What arrogance! Does the righteousness of JWs surpass that of the prophets? Of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Deborah, Ezekiel, etc. ? John 12:48-49 - "The one who rejects me and doesn't receive my sayings has this as his judge: The word I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 "For I have not spoken on my own, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a command to say everything I have said. Acts 17:31 - “because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world in righteousness by the man he has appointed. He has provided proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead." Rev 22:10 – “Then he said to me, "Don't seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. Rev 22:12 - "Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me to repay each person according to his work. Rev 20:12 - I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books.” John 5:22 - "The Father, in fact, judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, John 5:27 - "And he has granted him the right to pass judgment, because he is the Son of Man. It sounds to me that Wt's doctrine is excluding Jesus' right AND ability to pass judgment on mankind when Armageddon is finished. Wt's judgment is according to man's doctrine and not according to God and His plan. Jesus was with God since the beginning of the creation of mankind. What matters in judgment, is what the heart contains. (2 Chron 16:9) You don't think that God had the ability to judge each person while they were alive on the earth? Only God and Christ can read hearts. (Isa 66:16,15) Satan wants to twist the words of God and deny Jesus' ability to bring eternal life to those resurrected into the Kingdom of God, WHERE NO SECOND JUDGMENT WILL OCCUR. Heb 4:12 - "For the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, penetrating as far as the separation of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Perfection/”holiness” is defined in Matt 5:43-58

Wow, I don't even remember reading such a thing in the Wt. But I do know that the elders who "represent the royal priesthood" right now, are said to be the "princes" on the earth in the Kingdom. This is the truth about where the anointed will rule with Jesus Christ; which is both in "heaven" - a spiritual state - and on the earth. 2 Cor 5:17 Said from a man who has created multiple identities on this forum, to hide who he really is. Why?

Yes! He is the "faithful witness" in truth. John 14:6 And who are these “kings of the earth” that the scripture mentions? The anointed priests and foundation stones of the Temple were told: “You are the ones who have stood by Me in My trials. 29And I bestow on you a kingdom, just as My Father has bestowed one on Me, 30so that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” The apostles and the prophets also make up that foundation with the chief cornerstone. 1 Cor 3:9-11 - "We are coworkers belonging to God. You are God’s field, God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master-builder I laid a foundation, but someone else builds on it. And each one must be careful how he builds. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than what is being laid, which is Jesus Christ." That spiritual building is described as God's Temple in Eph 2:20-22 As the years have gone by, any further “stones” sealed into the foundation of God’s spiritual Temple, are also “kings” and “priests”. They are stated here: They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation. 10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests[af] (“priestly kingdom”) to serve our God, and they will reign(as kings do) on the earth.”” Rev 5:9,10 The term, “kings of the earth” in Revelation, ONLY refer to Christ’s kings, and never to ruling leaders of political governments. Revelation is about the anointed who come under attack by the two Beasts of Rev 13. by DECEIT. When this book says, "come out of her my people", Jesus is saying to his "kings of the earth" (and those with them) to leave falsehoods and the doctrine of wayward anointed "priests" behind, before it is too late. Rev 18:4-8; Matt 24:15,16

Allen, (yep, it's you) @BroRando has written many times about who comprise the Temple on the Body of Christ, as the anointed priests. I am wondering why he isn't upholding his own belief. 1 Pet 2:5 - you yourselves, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood and to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Eph 2:20-22 - "because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit." Biblical history shows that only chosen priests have ever been approved by God to serve Him in His Temple. 2 Chron 23:6 - "But no one is to enter the house of the LORD except the priests and the ministering Levites; they may enter, for they are holy. And all the people are to keep the command of the LORD." Num 18:7 - "But you and your sons with you are responsible for your priestly duties, for everything at the altar and within the curtain. And you must serve. I give you the priesthood as a gift for service, but the unauthorized person who approaches must be put to death.” Many religions formulate the meaning of the spiritual temple built on the body of Jesus, as including all believers. There was an initial reason for the priesthood, to teach all God's people His decrees for their benefit. Mal 2:7 But, the Wt. is changing this truth into a lie, by saying the same as all religions, that the heavenly temple now comprises all JWs. It sounds like they want to be like the nations; and in a sense they are, by serving "wood and stone", an earthly organization. Ezek 20:32 The anointed priests only, are the "saints"/chosen that Revelation 20:9 is referring to. You can't change the message of the word of God, and get away with it. 🙂

My question was... Keep in mind that in the Kingdom, the saints/priests will be serving God and Jesus in his spiritual Temple. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22) The "law" will have gone out from Zion, the holy city. ( Isa 2:1-3) Rev chapter 21 will have been fulfilled. Rev 20:7,8 - "Now when the thousand years are finished, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to bring them together for the battle. They are as numerous as the grains of sand in the sea. 9 They went up on the broad plain of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and devoured them completely." Notice that the saints and the "beloved city" (which is the saints/priests 1 Cor 3:16) ARE ON THE EARTH in your paradise? And that fire comes down from heaven? Wt's doctrine says that the saints will be in heaven ruling with Jesus during the thousand years ; but somehow, the priesthood serving God in heavenly Zion, the holy city, will be surrounded by Satan's minions...on earth? How is that possible when your doctrine states that the anointed will never come down on the earth in the Kingdom? But somehow, the priests/144,000 will be deceived and surrounded on the earth; even though they have been sealed and would be serving as "living stones" of God's Temple/dwelling in Spirit. Do you think Satan will convince them to leave heaven and come to earth where he then surrounds them? Lots of questions should be asked by JWs concerning this doctrine. Is God too weak to defend Zion in the Kingdom? Will He be deceived also and allow Satan's army to surround His active priests on the earth? In your Armageddon, it is shown that Christ and the 144,000 are fighting the nations (another appearance of Gog and Magog) successfully. If the saints/priests are deceived in the paradise, and they are the members of Christ's Body, then is Christ, their spiritual Head, also surrounded in God's heavenly Temple...or is it on the earth...and deceived? Oh wait, fire "comes down out of heaven", so the saints who are surrounded couldn't be sealed into "heavenly" Zion, could they? They will have been existing on the earth when it all happens. NONE OF WT'S DOCTRINE ON THE THOUSAND YEAR REIGN OF JESUS CHRIST MAKES ANY SENSE. It began in the first century. Satan was let loose when the Wt. was formed. And look at what it has accomplished - the anointed saints are surrounded and trampled down by the "Gentiles"/body of elders, using DECEIT - LIES. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Col 2:8; 13:1,2,10; 16:13-16

At the end of the symbolic "thousand years" when Satan is released from the abyss, who is it that Gog and Magog surround, by the use of deceit?

Nope, nothing to do with English not being one's primary language. It's just an observance I've noticed before - a pattern made by one person with many identities.🤔 I wouldn't wish for anyone to stop posting, no matter who they are. 🙂

Have a cup of chamomile tea and relax, without putting up your guard beforehand, believing that all I say is a lie. We don't need to be physically perfect to be found righteous before God. Following the laws of God in Christ's words, is based on love. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? 47 And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? 48 So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:43-48 We also can’t lose sight, or excuse away, the promises that the Kingdom offers. There is no glitch, no hiccup, no pause in the hope of Rev 21:1-4; otherwise we would be saying that God’s promises are worthless. The Wt. has created a pause for an indefinite period in their teaching of “paradise”, how? Through the doctrine of men. So, by using ‘scripture to interpret scripture’, the thousand-year reign of Christ must be understood through God’s word. “Thousand” – have you ever noticed that while Jesus was on the earth, he fed 5,000 and 4,000 people? Do you really believe that these figures represent the exact amount of people fed? What about “7,000” “who did bow the knee to Baal”? These are big numbers that clarify a fullness - an accomplishment of an action. What about “144,000”? Again, this is symbolic, and signifies completeness, the accomplishment and full authority of the Temple (1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22) reaching fruition in the Body of Jesus Christ. (Zech 4:8-10; Rom 8:19; Rev 21:22-24) There are no specifics to these statements, only fulfillment: Deut 1:11 – “Indeed, may the Lord, the God of your ancestors, make you a thousand times more numerous than you are now, blessing you just as he said he would!” Deut 7:9 – “So realize that the Lord your God is the true God, the faithful God who keeps covenant faithfully with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations” Ps 105:8 – “He always remembers his covenantal decree, the promise he made to a thousand generations” Hebrew for “thousand” - The KJV translates Strong's H505 in the following manner: thousand (500x), eleven hundred (with H3967) (3x), variant (1x), twelve hundred (with H3967) (1x). If you use the Bible to try and specify the thousand years of Christ’s reign as a literal definite number, then you are disregarding how the word is used. Of interest: Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h505/kjv/wlc/0-1/ You have quoted 2 Pet 3:8 – “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand G5507 years, and a thousand G5507 years as one day.” G5507 - ίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand. Should this scripture be used to define the exact meaning of “thousand” or “day” according to the Father? Should it be used to calculate a date for the end? The word is used also in Revelation nine times, including Rev 20:2,3 – And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. “thousand” – “plural of uncertain affinity” You seem to like doing research. Perhaps you’ll consider this quote: 2Pe.3:8 KJV “Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as 1,000 [g5507] years, and 1,000 [g5507] years as one day.” The usage of “1,000 years” in this verse is somewhat similar to Ps.90:4. Benson Commentary 2Pe.3:8 “A thousand years, yea, the longest time, is no more delay to the eternal God than one day is to us.” Matthew Poole Commentary 2Pe.3:8 “By a synécdoche, 1,000 years is put for any, even the longest revolution of time.” Bengel’s Gnomen 2Pe.3:8 “He [God] wonderfully exceeds all measure of time.” In this verse too, “1,000 years” is figurative. JFB Commentary Re.20:2 “A thousand implies perfection. Thousand symbolizes that the world is perfectly leavened and pervaded by the divine.” Matthew Poole Commentary Re.20:2 “It is probable that it signifies an uncertain, indefinite time.” Pulpit Commentary Re.20:2 “The best interpretation seems to be that this phrase expresses a quality, and does not express a period of time. ‘1,000’ signifies completeness.” Ellicott Commentary Re.20:3 “The same applies to the duration of the imprisonment; it is not to be understood literally.” Kenneth L. Gentry He Shall Have Dominion, p.347 “The thousand is no more literal here than that which affirms God’s ownership of the cattle on 1,000 hills (Ps.50:10).” Anthony A. Hoekema The Bible and the Future, p.226 “The book of Revelation is full of symbolic numbers. The number ‘thousand’ in this passage ought not to be interpreted in a strictly literal sense.” In the Bible, “one thousand/1,000 years” refers to a large period of time. Interpreting the years as an approximation is even a stretch. https://bibletopicexpo.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/thousand-years-in-the-bible-2/ On that note, Jesus began ruling in the first century according to God’s word. (Ps 110:1,2; Luke 22:69; Acts 7:55; Rev 3:21; 1 Cor 15:25 Mark 16:19- Then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. These scriptures tell us that Jesus accomplishes God’s purpose through ruling at His right hand: Eph 1:20 - “He exercised this power in Christ by raising him from the dead and seating him at His right hand in the heavens” Another translation says, “God’s power was at work in Christ” Exod 15:6 - “LORD, your right hand is glorious in power. LORD, your right hand shattered the enemy.” Ps 110:1,2; Ps 17:1; Heb 8:1,2; 1 Pet 3:22 Jesus was not inactive until 1914; but actively ruling with authority and power. This symbolic “thousand years” that began when he sat down at the Father’s right hand, is mentioned as the “kingdom of the Son of His love”, or “the kingdom of His beloved Son”. (Col 1:13,14) Nowhere in the scriptures does it state that his reign is one of peace, but one of division, of judgment. (Matt 10:34-39) Can you show me where it says otherwise? Even the Wt. picks up on that word, “judgment” and then puts a spin on it saying the “peaceful” thousand years, are the time of judgment. This isn’t true. With the belief that people will be living in a utopia, everyone will still be under the microscope during that time, way before the utopia ends and war ensues at the end of a literal thousand years. Again, when has God’s judgment enacted on His people ever proven to be peaceful? (2 Chron 20:12; Isa 3:13-15; Ezek 7:8; Joel 3:12) According to the word of God, it was always during their time of sinning or testing. Will JWs be tested during their entire stay in paradise? Judgment was a time of division, between the obedient and the disobedient, the righteous and the unrighteous. So you see, the doctrine of men have changed the meaning of scripture to support their theory which cannot be backed up by the word of God. During Christ’s “millennial” kingdom since the first century, each anointed one either proves to be faithful in Christ, or rebellious. (2 Tim 3:1-9) Satan has asked to sift them “as wheat”. (Luke 22:31) Christ’s “enemies” are put at his feet. It is a time of harvest of the sons of the kingdom. (Matt 13:30) And then, after Satan's last act of deceit against the remaining ones of the woman's seed, (Rev 12:1-4,17) “death” will be destroyed when Armageddon is finished. (Rev 13:1,2,5-7; 12 “For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then when Christ comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be eliminated is death. 27 For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. 1 Cor 15 This takes place when the Wild Beast of the Sea and its false prophet, Rev 13:1,2:11,12 is destroyed. (Rev 20:11-14; Dan 7:11-14; Rev 19:19-21) The “righteous” will posses the earth at the end of Armageddon, with no possibility that unrighteousness and deceit will ever show its ugly head in the Kingdom of God.

I just don’t get the innocent ruse hailing concepts out of the ordinary, which is why I kept questioning my gut feeling.

I've had the same chill for the last few days. I believe now seeing a traditional comma out of place, may prove this chill isn't from covid.

Those promises are true. I believe in them and we can put our full trust in their words. In fact, besides Jesus Christ who inherits the earth- the land, are his “righteous” members of his body – his “Bride”. (Rev 19:7,8) After Lot had departed, the Lord said to Abram, “Lookfrom the place where you stand to the north, south, east, and west. 15 I will give all the land that you see to you and your descendants forever. 16 And I will make your descendants like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone is able to count the dust of the earth, then your descendants also can be counted.” Gen 3:15-16 So I’m sure we agree that Jesus was the promised physical seed of Abraham and that he inherits the earth as the second Adam. (1 Cor 15:45) He is also the promised spiritual seed. So too, are the members of his spiritual body. Gal 3:29 - If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. God changed Jacob’s name to Israel. Spiritual “Israel” today are the anointed “elect”/chosen, under the New Covenant promise. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Gal 6:16; Rev 21:12) Here is the promise God gave to Jacob, Abraham’s grandson: Meanwhile Jacob left Beer Sheba and set out for Haran. 11 He reached a certain place where he decided to camp because the sun had gone down. He took one of the stones and placed it near his head. Then he fell asleep in that place 12 and had a dream. He saw a stairway erected on the earth with its top reaching to the heavens. The angels of God were going up and coming down it 13 and the Lord stood at its top. He said, “I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham and the God of your father Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the ground you are lying on. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread outto the west, east, north, and south. And so all the families of the earth may receive blessings through you and through your descendants. 15 I am with you! I will protect you wherever you go and will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I promised you!” Gen 28 Jesus and his Bride that “comes down from heaven” (“a stairway erected on the earth”, “the angels of God were going up and coming down on it”) …inherit the earth. By their union through the fulfillment of the New Covenant, the rest of God’s children receive life. (Isa 66:7-11; Rev 21:2,3) Jesus spoke again of the stairway with “angels” ascending and descending upon the Son of Man. (John 1:49-51) The “144,000” are not confined to a literal heaven as the organization describes. Angels are defined as messengers, and God’s priests of “Israel” are the messengers of His word. Mal 2:7 Even John the Baptist was described by the Greek word for “angel” as the "messenger" that came before Christ's arrival. (Matt 11:10) Rev 5:10 – “You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests (or a “priestly kingdom”) to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” So there’s that. It is your organization’s “paradise” that comes into question. Read your scriptures over again. See how sound the promises are. Your doctrine of "paradise" doesn't hold up to scripture. Just think of the meaning of the word, paradise. “a very beautiful, pleasant, or peaceful place that seems to be perfect” God’s Kingdom promises – PROMISES – to “wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” Rev 21:4 Does God make such a promise to His righteous ones, and then allow Satan to pull the rug out from underneath this paradise? “ For every one of God’s promises are “Yes” in him; therefore also through him the “Amen” is spoken, to the glory we give to God.” 2 Cor 1:20 “Look, today I am about to die. You know with all your heart and being that not even one of all the faithful promises the Lord your God made to you is left unfulfilled; every one was realized—not one promise is unfulfilled!" Josh 23:14 "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a human being, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it happen?" Num 23:19 Since God promises eternal peace in the Kingdom, it is your thousand-year doctrine that is a lie, and it is making God out to be a liar by saying “paradise” will be interrupted with war to be fought against God’s New Jerusalem in the anointed (Rev 20:7-9) and death of thousands will happen for an undetermined amount of time. Will those finally found “righteous” be burying bodies again after a second Armageddon, where the “wicked” must be cut off again? This is not what God’s Kingdom promises.

Peter, picture two fruit trees growing side by side. One is full of good, edible fruit. Each piece is desirable to eat. The tree is healthy, with fruit that not only contains nourishment, but healing properties. (Rev 22:1,2) Next to it is another tree, and lying at its base is fruit that has already fallen, and rotting. Flies and wasps are having a constant feast on its bounty. On the tree itself, you see fruit turning brown from disease, barely holding on to the branches. True, there may be a handful of specimens that still look good enough to eat; but anyone with common sense would realize that relying on that tree for healing nourishment, would be an act of foolishness. (Ps 1:1-3) Which tree would you choose to eat from? The first tree represents the word of God in Jesus Christ. To make it clear, a picture of the Bible might be the appropriate symbol to place next to it. Better yet, perhaps a drawing of Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life. (Rev 2:7) The second tree could aptly be named “Beliefs Clarified”, with the appropriate symbol of Wt’s website that you eagerly provide in full color, leaning against the trunk. Its beauty fades under swarms of flies feasting on rotten fruit. Leading individuals to the labyrinth of JW org, does not lead them to the tree of life. Continuously, this “tree” hides its rotten “fruit” by purging old and failed teachings. Still, if a student of the Bible decided to do a search on specific teachings within the labyrinth, confusion likely will result since some fruit that has turned from disease, still clings to the branches. (2 Pet 2:1-3) However, most newcomers investigating its fruit, stay close to the entrance of the labyrinth and feast on what looks appetizing and “healthy” to eat, provided through the most recent videos, magazines and books. One thing that the GB is an expert at, is diverting the attention of their embarrassing past through a sort of "artificial selection", to glorify their past activities in a new shiny up to date offering of fruit. “Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad[aa](“diseased”) tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.” Matt 7:15-20 We recognize false prophets by their failed teachings and doctrine of men; yet incredibly, the Wt. has exposed a portion of their rotten fruit for the world to see, while also convincing millions to keep eating from their tree. They have disguised themselves as servants of righteousness. 2 Cor 11:13-15 If you remainin me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is honored by this, that you bear much fruit and show that you are my disciples. John 15:7-8 Has the GB shown they are true disciples of Christ by the fruit that they bear? “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that remains, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.” John 15:16 Do you condemn a person for rejecting the doctrine of men – rotten fruit? Do you, Peter, condemn a person who follows and “eats” from the tree of life? Rev 2:7 Two Trees, Past and Present

2 Cor 2:17

Jesus' life and death was predicted beforehand, and scripture does not give us any inclination that Jesus would claim protection in the abyss - Sheol - Hades - pit; they all refer to the same thing. Ps 18:5 - The ropes of Sheol tightened around me, the snares of death trapped me. Ps 30:3 - O Lord, you pulled me up from Sheol; you rescued me from among those descending into the grave. Ps 116:3 - The ropes of death tightened around me, the snares of Sheol confronted me. I was confronted with trouble and sorrow. Isa 28:15 - For you say, “We have made a treaty with death, with Sheol we have made an agreement. When the overwhelming judgment sweeps by it will not reach us. For we have made a lie our refuge, we have hidden ourselves in a deceitful word.” Hos 13:14 - Will I deliver them from the power of Sheol? No, I will not! Will I redeem them from death? No, I will not! O Death, bring on your plagues! O Sheol, bring on your destruction! My eyes will not show any compassion!

Interesting comparison: Ezek 12:6 - "While they are watching, raise your baggage onto your shoulder and carry it out in the dark. You must cover your face so that you cannot see the ground because I have made you an object lesson to the house of Israel.” עֲלָטָה ʻălâṭâh, al-aw-taw'; feminine from an unused root meaning to cover; dusk:—dark, twilight. darkness, dusk Num 9:11 - In the second month on the fourteenth day at twilight, they shall celebrate it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. עֶרֶב ʻereb, eh'-reb; from H6150; dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night. evening, originally sunset