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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.  Matt 10:2
    Who is "Israel" today? Rom 9:6-8; Gal 4:26,28; 6:16
    The message in the last days is to the anointed and those with them.  Rev 18:4-8; 14:6-12
    Fear God and give HIM glory - not an organization that spiritual harlots have used to mislead the "elect".  (Matt 24:24,25; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:11,12,4,15-17; 17:15)
     
  2. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Pudgy in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    If Thinking knows me, then she would know what congregation/congregations I was in as a JW.
  3. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I referred to the teachings of "anointed ones in particular".
    "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."  1 John 4:1
    If the teachings of the GB were from God, they would remain - last - not die out.  A faithful slave of Christ would not provide a dish of food that would be found rotten within  5 years, one year, or within months.   False prophets are recognized by their inability to produce fruit that endures the test of time.
    " You didn’t choose me, but I chose you. I have appointed you to go, to produce fruit that will last, and to ask the Father in my name to give you whatever you ask for."  John 15:16
    Who appointed the GB as the F&D slave?  They appointed themselves, out of necessity.  They needed full control of the food produced, full control over the lives of everyone in your organization; in particular, the anointed. (Matt 24:48-51) "Food" comes from the "helpers" they have chosen - those of the elder body.  Through the restriction of the spiritual lifeline of teachings; written by those not anointed and approved by only 8 men, they have funneled down to JWs, what the scriptures call "vomit".  (Isa 28:7-10)
    This is why people leave.  They are literally "fed up" with being served food that they have "bought" with their service and dedication, only to be disappointed in its rottenness.  They recognize that their spiritual health has deteriorated on a diet of vomit.   Matt 7:15-20; Rev 13:15-17
     
     
     
     
     
  4. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Um very intelligent first answer.  "Well duh"   But you fully understood my point, that JWs will not reason on things that go against the GB's interpretation.  Didn't Jesus advise us to test the things we hear ?  And wasn't it the Bereans that searched the scriptures 'to make sure things were true' ?  So i think it wise to look deeper than just believeing every word from your GB, even if they do call themsleves the F&DS. 
    JWs shun all ex JWs so JWs would never know if ex JWs have a love for God and Christ. 
    If you judge ex JWs just by 'hearsay' then it would be you at fault for judging them.  
  5. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I referred to the teachings of "anointed ones in particular".
    "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."  1 John 4:1
    If the teachings of the GB were from God, they would remain - last - not die out.  A faithful slave of Christ would not provide a dish of food that would be found rotten within  5 years, one year, or within months.   False prophets are recognized by their inability to produce fruit that endures the test of time.
    " You didn’t choose me, but I chose you. I have appointed you to go, to produce fruit that will last, and to ask the Father in my name to give you whatever you ask for."  John 15:16
    Who appointed the GB as the F&D slave?  They appointed themselves, out of necessity.  They needed full control of the food produced, full control over the lives of everyone in your organization; in particular, the anointed. (Matt 24:48-51) "Food" comes from the "helpers" they have chosen - those of the elder body.  Through the restriction of the spiritual lifeline of teachings; written by those not anointed and approved by only 8 men, they have funneled down to JWs, what the scriptures call "vomit".  (Isa 28:7-10)
    This is why people leave.  They are literally "fed up" with being served food that they have "bought" with their service and dedication, only to be disappointed in its rottenness.  They recognize that their spiritual health has deteriorated on a diet of vomit.   Matt 7:15-20; Rev 13:15-17
     
     
     
     
     
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I hit a raw nerve.  Was it the video, the mention of the Flock book, or was it the scripture? 
    Why do I need a closed club when I can speak here in the open?  You know, I have never added caustic adjectives to your name that I can remember.  Once out of frustration, I said you were blind, but then removed it. (although truly, you are spiritually blind - 2 Cor 4:1-6)  You love to address individuals, who cannot accept your leaders…and give you valid reasons why… with unique descriptions, in the same way your leaders address apostates as “despicable”.  I can’t imagine how colorful your language must get in your closed group. 
    I don’t need JWs to give meaning to my life.  But what you need, what all JWs need, is scriptural truth to give meaning to yours.
    Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I hit a raw nerve.  Was it the video, the mention of the Flock book, or was it the scripture? 
    Why do I need a closed club when I can speak here in the open?  You know, I have never added caustic adjectives to your name that I can remember.  Once out of frustration, I said you were blind, but then removed it. (although truly, you are spiritually blind - 2 Cor 4:1-6)  You love to address individuals, who cannot accept your leaders…and give you valid reasons why… with unique descriptions, in the same way your leaders address apostates as “despicable”.  I can’t imagine how colorful your language must get in your closed group. 
    I don’t need JWs to give meaning to my life.  But what you need, what all JWs need, is scriptural truth to give meaning to yours.
    Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
  8. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What factors were behind the rapid growth of Christianity in its first few centuries?   
    That was not my application when saying you are extremely intelligent.  It is just a fact, you are extremely intelligent.  
    It is your leaders who use cunning tactics to mislead their listeners onto the wrong path.  
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What factors were behind the rapid growth of Christianity in its first few centuries?   
    I do believe that to you, I once said something like, 'how can I not love you?'  I am not the one who hates his brother and sister in Christ.  But ask your GB whom they hate; those they have dictated must be disfellowshipped - thousands of their brothers and sisters who question their teachings.  It is hate to feel you must silence anyone who speaks against your falsehoods.  Why do they do this?  To protected their organization.  "Jehovah's organization" is said to be "spirit-directed" as if blessed by God. 
    Rev 13:11-15 - Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath (spirit-directed) to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
    God does not tolerate false teachings, why do you?  Why do all JWs tolerate the false teachings of the GB Beast who  appears to be sent by Christ, but speaks "like a dragon", the liar?
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What factors were behind the rapid growth of Christianity in its first few centuries?   
    What I found interesting about Tom's words, were "due to the constant fighting with those who truly do hate Jehovah’s organization and all it stands for"
    Nothing said about the Father and the Son, but about an organization.  I don't think he can deny that there are those on here who have kept their faith in God and Jesus after leaving the Wt.   Is that not the important thing?  
    Where does his faith lie?  Does he believe that God and an earthly organization are inseparable?  
    “To whom will you compare me or make me equal? Who will you measure me with, so that we should be like each other?"  Isa 46:5
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I would never try to escape that fact.  I am very grateful that God sent His messenger to explain the deceit used against His people.  I am grateful that I had the courage to stand up against lies, even though this meant a disfellowshipping, and joined this messenger in support of the truth in Jesus Christ.  Hab 2:1; Mal 3:1-4; Matt 17:11; Rev 11:1-3
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What factors were behind the rapid growth of Christianity in its first few centuries?   
    Who accused him, but his own people?  Who accuse any anointed "kings" and JWs, who speak against the religious system of their own people?  Why are they disfellowshipped, if it isn't for sedition?
    Luke 21:12-15 - "But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. On account of My name they will deliver you to the synagogues and prisons, and they will bring you before kings and governors. 13This will be your opportunity to serve as witnesses. 14 So make up your mind not to worry beforehand how to defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you speech and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict."
    A judicial committee of "kings"/elders (who represent the anointed "kings of the earth") prompted by your governors, decides the spiritual fate of those who are determined to follow the truth in Jesus Christ, and not the false doctrine of the governors.  
    And that fate is considered a spiritual death. (John 16:2-3; Rev 13:15)  They "die" for truth, not a half-truth, but Christ's truth - his words that are not adulterated by the words of false teachers; and follow in the footsteps of Jesus - NOT the footsteps of leaders who deceive all of you into believing a truth can be changed out, just as a light bulb may need changing.  How clever of Satan to twist the concept of a lie, as past or present "truth".   I can't imagine Jesus ever using the term "new light".  It is a form of excuse for failed doctrine. 
    In Israel, people accepted false teachers among them - to lead them without questioning or "testing the spirits". (1 John 4:1; Jer 23:16) They accepted the idols that their leaders demanded to be worshipped. (Exod 32:8;1 Kings 12:28-30;Hos 8:5-6; Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4)
    God sent His prophets to warn them of their sins.  Usually, only a small number took heed of that warning.  It is promised that God sends a prophet in the last days to warn His people of their sins and to restore the priesthood, and truth,  in the Temple of God. (Mal 3:1-4; Matt 17:11; Rev 11:1-3)   They have been deceived by the very men who have trained you to look into Satan's world for fulfillment of prophesy.
    Do you really think Satan, in the last days, wants the anointed remnant to know the truth of the fulfillment of Revelation, especially since he has asked to sift them as wheat? He uses DECEIT to do this and what does he use to accomplish deceiving them?  He has the ability to perform "signs and wonders" in the world under his control.  He can make happen what he wants to make happen, just as in Job's day.  
    What else does he use?
    2 Cor 11:3,4,12-15 - "I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.
    But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things of which they boast. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions."
    I don't believe you would take sides.  I see how you are diverted down the wrong path, and applying Revelation's prophesies about the fulfillment of the last days, to Satan's world; just where he wants you to look.  And there is plenty to look at.
    Luke 17:20-21 - The Pharisees asked Jesus when God’s kingdom would come. He answered them, “People can’t observe the coming of God’s kingdom. 21 They can’t say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ You see, God’s kingdom is within  you.”  
    What we treasure in our heart is what will determine whether we are in the Kingdom. (Matt 6:19-21)  If we treasure what we see developed by spiritual leaders - an organization that is said to lead one to salvation, an organization who's failed prediction are known world-wide, it's unsound doctrine, it's determination to silence people who can't accept its lies - then we have filled our hearts with corruptible treasures on this earth; and those particular treasures have their part in Satan's scheme to mislead the anointed. (1 John 5:19)
    Col 3:1,2 -  "Since you were brought back to life with Christ, focus on the things that are above—where Christ holds the honored position—the one next to God the Father on the heavenly throne. Keep your mind on things above, not on worldly things."
    That's impossible to do, when an organization and its leadership has trained your eye to look into the worldly things for the the end-time fulfillment.  
     
     
     
  13. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What factors were behind the rapid growth of Christianity in its first few centuries?   
    I do believe he understands more than you do.  You are an extrem aely intelligent person with one-track mind focused solely on the politics of the world and its sins, and not on the sins of God’s people.  
    JWs sloppily apply Revelation to themselves only as innocent victims, never as irresponsible in following the commands of Christ. (Rev 2:14-16; 3:18) In light of the sins committed by the rulership of the Watchtower, WHY would God turn a blind eye to the actions of His anointed people under covenant?  He never has before. Only if you are blind to God's justice, would you believe He has.  
    The “kings of the inhabited earth”…”kings of the earth”…are CHRIST’S KINGS. 
    Rev 1:5 - and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
    They are the anointed kings who have been gathered over the years, by the False prophet, the Beast and the Dragon for the battle of Armageddon.  The "inhabited earth" is God's inhabited "land" in Spirit.  This is what Revelation is addressing - God's own people.  His spirit-inhabited "land" - "oikumen".  
    Luke 8:5-8,15; Matt 13:38; Mark 4:20; 1 Cor 3:9; Eph 2:20-22; James 1:21
    Why are these demonic expressions related to frogs?  Looking at God's word, we see that frogs  plagued Egypt.  So the "kings of the earth"/anointed are plagued by symbolic frogs - and how do frogs develop?  Slowly, through stages.  The end result of a demonic expression developing in stages, is a full-fledged LIE, pouring (Rev 12:15) from the mouth of Satan, his ministers, and those whom they exercise authority over.  (2 Cor 11:13-15; Rev 13:11,12,1,2).   
    We've witnessed any truth once taught in the organization, turn into a full-fledged lie. Take for instance the meaning of the Temple of God and who comprise it.  Since the exposure of the man of lawlessness being the Watchtower organization, it was necessary for your leaders to fine-tune their more recent doctrine, that ALL JWS are the Temple of God.  No! They comprise the Beast from the Sea - an idol.  (Rev 13:1)
    God's anointed kings have been flooded with Wt's lies.  They are captivated by Wt's "empty philosophy" - and slaves to an idol. (Col 2:8; Rev 13:10) They and all of you, must make the decision between truth in Jesus Christ and lies of false prophets.  Rev 3:18; Joel 3:14
    Prov 12:17 - "Whoever speaks the truth declares what is right, but a false witness speaks deceit"
    2 Chron 18:20-22 - "Then a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will entice him.' "The LORD asked him, 'How? '"So he said, 'I will go and become a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' "Then he said, 'You will entice him and also prevail. Go and do that.' "Now, you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit into the mouth of these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you."
    Why does God allow this?  Why did He allow Job to be tested?
    Luke 22:31 - And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
    Satan is the accuser.  His target are the anointed MEMBERS OF CHRIST.  Just as Christ was tested, so also are the members of his Body.  
    The harvest of the wheat and the weeds are of the "sons of the kingdom" - of the anointed.  (Matt 8:12; 13:38)  The "weeds" become the "sons of the wicked one".  One cannot serve God and be approved by Him when an anointed priest has convinced his hearers to follow falsehoods.  Can a JW distinguish a lie from truth?  Do they care to?  If they prefer the lie, God will give it to them.
    Ezek 14:9,10 - "'But if the prophet is deceived and speaks a message, it was I, the LORD, who deceived that prophet. I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.  "They will bear their punishment -- the punishment of the one who inquires will be the same as that of the prophet."
    2 Thess 2:9-11 - "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie"
    Rev 18:4,5 “‘Come out of her, my people,’
        so that you will not share in her sins,
        so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
     for her sins are piled up to heaven,
        and God has remembered her crimes.
    1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
    Matt 24:24,25 -  For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect ("chosen").  See, I have told you ahead of time.
     
     
     
     
     
     
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    I hope you can believe when I say that Acts 2:17,18 is already happening.  The promises you have given us, are reliable and true.  It will be “organized” according to God’s will. But I feel that for anyone passing through here, I need to explain the severity of the times we are in; which is contrary in content to what the Wt. believes. 
    The Wt. must be taken down, because as you know, the anointed priesthood – those “living stones” of the Temple of God - have been trampled down and replaced. (Dan 8:13; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17)   This is what the “man of lawlessness” predicted to appear in the last days, fully accomplishes.  (2 Thess 2:3,4 ) Elders “sit” in the Temple of God. They have symbolically “entered” God’s sanctuary as an “abomination standing in the holy place”. Matt 24:15,16.  They are “standing where they ought not”.  (Mark 13:14)  They are a massive army of spiritual “Gentiles”. When we perceive this, we are to flee the organization before its destruction. (Rev 18:4-8)  Revelation 11:1,2 says that the temple has been given over to these Gentiles, the “holy city” has been trampled.  This was written after the destruction of Jerusalem - it applies to our day – those who comprise “New Jerusalem”  (Gal 4:26)
    2 Thess. 2 calls the abomination standing in the holy place of Matt 24:15,16,  the “man of lawlessness”.  (2 Thess 2:3)  Revelation 13:18 tells us its number – 666 – the number of a man.  It is describing the Beast from the Sea (Isa 57:20), the Beast that blasphemes the sanctuary of God, and makes war with the saints. (Rev 13: 5-7; 20:7-9)  By putting the pieces together, we see that the Wt. was formulated by Satan to make war with the remaining ones of the “woman’s seed”.  How?  Through a flood of lies.  (Rev 12:15,17)  The anointed are gathered together by Satan and the Beasts of Rev 13, for the war of the Great Day of God the Almighty. (Rev 16:13-16) No outside political entity can “gather” the saints/”kings of the earth” together for Armageddon, as Rev 16:14 tells us. They have already been gathered into the organization.   We have to remember that Satan takes us down through deceit, which is what the two Beast together, have accomplished.  (Dan 8:24; Rev 13:14; 19:20; 20:10)
    The GB acts as ruling priests, yet all other anointed must not act in that capacity; the leadership has given that job to “Gentile” elders, who “represent the royal priesthood”. (Matt 24:48-51)  They have made Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul – all the apostles, out to be liars.   (Matt 28:16-20)
    Paul said, “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?”  1 Cor 6:4,5
    The Wt. tells the anointed that they will not be active priests until the Kingdom, so they use this excuse to replace them. "Gentile" elders become the active priests.  This is so twisted.   But these scriptures show us that in this life, they are to be the active priests and judges in the congregations, not “Gentile” elders who “represent” them.  (Mal 2:7)
    Always, when God’s priesthood was replaced, or Gentiles entered the Temple, it was considered an abomination. (Ezek 44:6-9)  People who did so, died for their brazen actions. Korah’s rebellion and the loss of life that ensued, is a primary example.  (Exod 40:15; Num 3:10; 2 Chron 13:9; Num chapter 16)
     The anointed are the dwelling of God’s Holy Spirit.  That is not a small thing, yet the Wt makes sarcastic light of it by saying,
    “Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.”  Es 2017, pg 58
    1 Cor chapter 12, Rom 12:3-8 and Eph 4:11-16, say otherwise. How bold of them, to pull the humility card, yet honor “Gentiles” standing in the holy place.  God’s chosen people receive their praise from Him, and their guidance and instruction from their Master, Jesus Christ – not from mere, uninspired men.  (Rom 2:28,29)  Can you see how they have not only used deceptive, suggestive wording, but slandered  the Temple of God and God Himself, who is Spirit? (John 4:24)  They have committed a sin against the Holy Spirit, over and over again through their blasphemy against each “living stone”, the spiritual dwelling of God.
    So although JWs here think that I am exalting myself somehow, by explaining the Temple of God and the transgressions against it by the Wt., it is their own blasphemy being committed against the Father and His Temple dwelling built on His Son, and blaspheming the chosen ones who reside right with them.  They refuse to consider the truth in God’s Word. They prefer the words of spiritual harlots. (Rev 18:7) They love their organization built on the elder body. (Rev 13:8)  
    1 Cor 3:16,17 – “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone [a]defiles (destroys) the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”
    How can the anointed hearts be destroyed, if not through the whole concept of the “abomination standing in the holy place”?  This is why the organization, and its leadership will be eliminated.  This abomination has become their idol, replacing God’s Temple.  (Rev 2:20; 13:15-17)
    “Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. (Satan) 7 For the [d]mystery (“hidden truth”) of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
    JWs are blind; they refuse to see what the organization has accomplished in destroying God’s Temple. (Rev 3:18; 16:15) The truth about this abomination will open up and they will have to face what they are presently supporting, the true identity of the man of lawlessness.  (Rev 17:8)
    Isa 63:18 – “Your holy people possessed Your sanctuary for a little while, Our adversaries have trampled it down.”
    Dan 11:31 - "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.”
    Joel 1:13,15 - Put on [sackcloth] And mourn, you priests; Wail, you ministers of the altar! Come, spend the night in sackcloth, You ministers of my God, For the grain offering and the drink offering Have been withheld from the house of your God.
    Woe for the day! For the day of the LORD is near, And it will come as destruction from the Almighty.
    Rev 11:1-3  - Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city (“New Jerusalem”/Temple) underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    This is the prophesy being given today, to "Israel" and all with them.  Matt 10:23
    Thus, Armageddon is not about the world of politics and religions primarily.  It involves the transgressions committed by God’s chosen people and against them, just as what has happened in the past.  But this transgression will be the last to ever occur.  Dan 7:11-14
    The “signs” of the Temple being restored, and the priesthood submitting to refinement and repentance, is already happening, but will become clearer in these last days. 
    Mal 3:1-5; Matt 17:11; Isa 14:1; Jer 30:18-22; Zech 8:23; 9:16; Zech 4:6,7; Rom 8:19-22; Isa 2:1-4
     
  15. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Aside from a comment made under a video saying individuals in Bethel are “planning” to take down the GB, what I’m referring to specifically, was stated directly from an elder. That’s all I am able to tell you. 
     
    Scripture interprets scripture. Watchtower does not use scripture in identifying the two Beasts of Revelation (one being a false prophet/harlot, Rev 13:11,12)  They use their own ideas and always have, the very definition of eisegesis.  For example, regarding the "king of the north", whatever suits their situation at the time, it somehow takes on a new identity.
    The Harlot exercises authority over, or “rides” the Beast/organization. (Rev 13:12; 17:3) Why would this Harlot represent the religions of the world including Christendom, when they were never under covenant with God? If the world’s religions (the Wt. focuses on Christendom) are the Harlot of Revelation, what were they before becoming one? Do you really believe that everyone in another religion can be labeled as "harlots" - people who love God and Jesus Christ?   Israel was labeled a harlot when it withdrew from God’s commands, breaking its covenant, sinning and committing idolatry. (Jer 2:11,20; 13:27; Hos 4:15; Ps 106:39)
    By using scripture to interpret Revelation, Jesus’ message is to his people under covenant, the anointed, who are committing idolatry as members of the organization, that they must dedicate their lives to. (Rev 3:18-22; 13:16,17;18:4-8)  
    Have you ever noticed that the “kings of the earth” are found in opposition of each other in Revelation?  (Rev 19:19;16:14;13:5-7) Have you recognized that all of these “kings” belong to Jesus Christ? (Rev 1:5)  In the Kingdom, will the “kings of the earth” serving in the Temple of God, be political rulers, or instead would they be the faithful “kings” who spoke the truth in Christ, fighting against the wayward “kings”, who broke their covenant to serve an idol – the Beast of Rev. 13:1?  (Rev 21:24; 5:9,10)
    The composite Harlot is a Beast from the earth, “kings” and leadership of “Israel”. (Rom 2:28,29; Gal 3:29 Rev 13:11,12)  They are included as the “heads” of the organization, the Beast from the Sea which they direct, which by they way, "makes war with the saints". (Rev 13:1,2, 5-7)
    The Harlot will be removed by the organization of elders, and other anointed (ten kings) joining them. (Rev 17:15-17) From there, they will try to reorganize the Wt, but this "man of lawlessness" will last only for one symbolic "hour".  (Rev 17:12; 13:18; 2 Thess 2:3,4,8,9)
    The Harlot "woman" reigns over the "kings of the earth" - Christ's kings.  Rev 17:18; 1:5 
     
  16. Haha
  17. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Perhaps @Witness needs to go careful ? She may find herself at the end of Billy the Kids rope as i did. 
    We have to be careful what we say about the GB don't we ? 
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    "They will be traitors.  They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.
    As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men oppose the truth. Their minds are corrupt, and the faith they teach is counterfeit. 9 Certainly, they won’t get very far. Like the stupidity of Jannes and Jambres, their stupidity will be plain to everyone."  2 Tim 3:4,5,8,9
    The organization itself will reveal the GB's stupidity, and  "her" sins.  
    The angel also said to me, “The waters you saw, on which the prostitute (GB) is sitting, are people, crowds, nations, and languages. (All JWs)  16 The ten horns (anointed inside, the "kings of the earth" Dan 7:24; Rev 17:12;Rev 1:5) and the beast (organization) you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her abandoned and naked. They will eat her flesh and burn her up in a fire. 17 God has made them do what he wants them to do. So they will give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words are carried out. 18 The woman you saw is the important city which dominates the kings of the earth.”  Rev 17:15-18
    There are already movements by elders, to remove the GB.  
     
     
     
     
  19. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Watchtower 2017, Feb. p. 26  "Who is Leading God's People Today?"
    We can also remember the Governing Body by following its instructions and direction. The Governing Body gives us direction through our publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions. It also appoints circuit overseers, who then appoint elders. By carefully following the directions given to them, the circuit overseers and the elders show that they remember the Governing Body. And all of us show respect for our Leader, Jesus, by obeying the men he is using today.—Hebrews 13:17.
    18 Another way that we can remember the Governing Body is by doing our best in the preaching work. Hebrews 13:7 urges Christians to imitate the faith of those taking the lead. The Governing Body has shown great faith by zealously preaching and promoting the good news. Are we supporting those brothers in this important work? If we are, we will feel happy when we hear Jesus tell us: “To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”—Matthew 25:34-40.
    This is so ludicrous.  Where does the GB get their directions, if they are not inspired by Holy Spirit?  Isn't it interesting that the quote says to obey the GB, but show respect to Jesus.  It should be the other way around - obey Jesus and his words, and if these men are doing the same, we can then show them respect.  But as you pointed out, it is the GB's direction that must be upheld; and that, above any direction Jesus has already given us.  It is amazing to me that their words carry more weight in the minds of JWs, than those of Jesus Christ.  But it is planned it that way, they have blatantly compared themselves to the apostles.  Instead, they are the false ones that the apostle Paul and Jesus warned us about - 2 Cor 11:12-15
    Jesus' words in Rev 2:2 - "I know what you have done—how hard you have worked and how you have endured. I also know that you cannot tolerate wicked people. You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are liars."
    1 John 4:1 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    If JWs were obeying the words of Jesus, they would do what both he and the apostle John told us to do, that is to test what these men claim to be, by examining the "fruits"/teachings that they offer.  Matt 7:15-20   They would discover that they are liars.  
    And the "least of these my brothers"?  The least of Christ's brothers are being held captive by the power these men have wielded over them. (Matt 24:48-51; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,15)  The GB are the "great ones" of Mark 10:42-45 that Jesus warned his disciples not to imitate.  
     
  20. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    "They will be traitors.  They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.
    As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men oppose the truth. Their minds are corrupt, and the faith they teach is counterfeit. 9 Certainly, they won’t get very far. Like the stupidity of Jannes and Jambres, their stupidity will be plain to everyone."  2 Tim 3:4,5,8,9
    The organization itself will reveal the GB's stupidity, and  "her" sins.  
    The angel also said to me, “The waters you saw, on which the prostitute (GB) is sitting, are people, crowds, nations, and languages. (All JWs)  16 The ten horns (anointed inside, the "kings of the earth" Dan 7:24; Rev 17:12;Rev 1:5) and the beast (organization) you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her abandoned and naked. They will eat her flesh and burn her up in a fire. 17 God has made them do what he wants them to do. So they will give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words are carried out. 18 The woman you saw is the important city which dominates the kings of the earth.”  Rev 17:15-18
    There are already movements by elders, to remove the GB.  
     
     
     
     
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Watchtower 2017, Feb. p. 26  "Who is Leading God's People Today?"
    We can also remember the Governing Body by following its instructions and direction. The Governing Body gives us direction through our publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions. It also appoints circuit overseers, who then appoint elders. By carefully following the directions given to them, the circuit overseers and the elders show that they remember the Governing Body. And all of us show respect for our Leader, Jesus, by obeying the men he is using today.—Hebrews 13:17.
    18 Another way that we can remember the Governing Body is by doing our best in the preaching work. Hebrews 13:7 urges Christians to imitate the faith of those taking the lead. The Governing Body has shown great faith by zealously preaching and promoting the good news. Are we supporting those brothers in this important work? If we are, we will feel happy when we hear Jesus tell us: “To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”—Matthew 25:34-40.
    This is so ludicrous.  Where does the GB get their directions, if they are not inspired by Holy Spirit?  Isn't it interesting that the quote says to obey the GB, but show respect to Jesus.  It should be the other way around - obey Jesus and his words, and if these men are doing the same, we can then show them respect.  But as you pointed out, it is the GB's direction that must be upheld; and that, above any direction Jesus has already given us.  It is amazing to me that their words carry more weight in the minds of JWs, than those of Jesus Christ.  But it is planned it that way, they have blatantly compared themselves to the apostles.  Instead, they are the false ones that the apostle Paul and Jesus warned us about - 2 Cor 11:12-15
    Jesus' words in Rev 2:2 - "I know what you have done—how hard you have worked and how you have endured. I also know that you cannot tolerate wicked people. You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are liars."
    1 John 4:1 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    If JWs were obeying the words of Jesus, they would do what both he and the apostle John told us to do, that is to test what these men claim to be, by examining the "fruits"/teachings that they offer.  Matt 7:15-20   They would discover that they are liars.  
    And the "least of these my brothers"?  The least of Christ's brothers are being held captive by the power these men have wielded over them. (Matt 24:48-51; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,15)  The GB are the "great ones" of Mark 10:42-45 that Jesus warned his disciples not to imitate.  
     
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book   
    Didn't they do that the moment they declared themselves responsible for the FDS service?
    Didn't they do that when they warned the flock that they must be ready to obey every instruction from GB, no matter how unreasonable it seemed?
    Didn't they do that when they said that God and Jesus showed complete confidence in them and that JW members should have such an attitude towards GB, too?
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Pudgy in Is the Governing Body's "Life-Saving Direction" Based on the Word of God?   
    I do know better, and I apologized.  🙂  But do your leaders?  After how many years of failed teachings, do they know better?  
    "This is what the Lord of Armies says: Don’t listen to what the prophets are saying to you. They fill you with false hope. They speak about visions that they dreamed up. These visions are not from the Lord."             Jer 23:16
    What about you?  Do you know better not to listen to them?
  24. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Pudgy in Is the Governing Body's "Life-Saving Direction" Based on the Word of God?   
    Now knowing that this writer twisted the quote, I would not defend him in any way.  I also would not come to the defense of the accurate quote JWI provided, because its writers have twisted the word of God.  By everyone’s upvotes when it was presented, most JWs here seem to defend something that turned out to be speculation not sourced in Holy Spirit.  Remember, its message was heralded far and wide and then turned out to be untrue…and it caused tremendous damage to JWs.  Was it intended?  Was it hatred?  Did the leaders learn from their past mistakes to stop projecting a date of Armageddon that always failed? Did they refer to the word of God before doing so?
    Although I regret posting the quote because of its inaccuracy, in this case of quotes, what is the difference?  What side of the fence should we be on when it comes to lies present on both sides? 
    I choose God’s word in Christ. 
    He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”  Acts 1:7
     
     
  25. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is the Governing Body's "Life-Saving Direction" Based on the Word of God?   
    Now knowing that this writer twisted the quote, I would not defend him in any way.  I also would not come to the defense of the accurate quote JWI provided, because its writers have twisted the word of God.  By everyone’s upvotes when it was presented, most JWs here seem to defend something that turned out to be speculation not sourced in Holy Spirit.  Remember, its message was heralded far and wide and then turned out to be untrue…and it caused tremendous damage to JWs.  Was it intended?  Was it hatred?  Did the leaders learn from their past mistakes to stop projecting a date of Armageddon that always failed? Did they refer to the word of God before doing so?
    Although I regret posting the quote because of its inaccuracy, in this case of quotes, what is the difference?  What side of the fence should we be on when it comes to lies present on both sides? 
    I choose God’s word in Christ. 
    He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”  Acts 1:7
     
     
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