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  1. Like
    Witness reacted to 4Jah2me in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Oh dear Mr Harley the story teller thinks he is so funny.  I see you've found a friend so that you can both pat each others back. 
    @TrueTomHarley One does not need to follow JW Org around, it is Earthwide. And one can use the internet to good use to give warnings, with proof of wickedness inside of JW Org.  
    What the true Anointed will NOT do is to put a date on Judgement day. Unlike the Bible Students and JW Org's use of 1914, 1918, 1975, et al. More proof of false teachings and lies from that Org.
    The true Anointed will surely baptise others in the name of Almighty God and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Not in the name of, or connected to, an Organisation. 
    NWT. Matthew 28 v 19 
    19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit
    And actually i think the true anointed will be known well within the next ten years, not at the end of it. And they will of course make known the coming Judgement time, but will not emphasise it as most important. The most important being to help make God's name known and to clear God's name of the mess that the JW Org has made of it. Maybe God's name will not even be Jehovah. There are many other forms of God's name known. 
    A lesson here for you Tom. When you say a person must be a JW to be saved. 
    NWT Mark 9 v 38 through 41. 
    38  John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”d 39  But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40  For whoever is not against us is for us.e 41  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ,f I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
    Those ones that Jesus spoke of were not Christians following Christ in the true sense.. But they were serving God because what they did was obviously righteous in Jesus' eyes. Jesus did not condemn them did he ? Look at verses 40 & 41.  He will by no means lose his reward.
  2. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    1) The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction.
    2)  If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way."
    Deceiving and in manipulate form. In first sentence writer showing idea how Jesus will fix all things and give justice and proper help to people who are hurt by elders. In second sentence comes new message: Do not have hope how Jesus will do it because of you (or in your lifetime). You are not of His primary interest, you are just sheep. Bigger picture is more important than you as individuum. 
    The idea of "spirit guided organization" is also a trick??
    We don't have any clear Bible example from 1 century or earlier how elders today should or need to handle CSA. Perhaps we can find some other modern problem too,that is not pictured in Bible.
    In spirit of this words i would give serious question about JW doctrine how elders are appointed by holy spirit. Here you said how elders are people who need to be in spirit and recommendations and guidelines of laws, principles and boundaries. Again, very stretchy and with strong human influence on things. It seems to me, how JW members have to decide in own mind, do they want to continue with idea of God's appointments or human appointments of  church servants.
    We misunderstand each other. I gave point on subject; Do Jesus have interest to be First and Last in decisions that are about His Flock and Congregation,  or He leave that to elders. In fact i ask, WHO RUN church? Jesus or WT Society with elders?  
    You gave answer down:
    "snow globe" in general beliefs of JW's
  3. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Sorry, your illustration with car driving is funny. Go, please, on YT and you will learn a lot how not to drive.  Auto-school is place for first lessons. .....if you didn't know before :))
    I suppose how his flock is made of people who put faith in him and listen to his voice and how he directs them by his spirit (for example, when two or three gathered in my name i am with them). 
    We don't need to turn around nothing. Few words is enough, don't you agree? 
  4. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth   
    Well sir, you have just condemned millions of your past brethren.  It is confusing, isn’t it.  It can cause us to see red.  Satan easily takes truth and spins it into a lie, just as easily as he takes a lie and builds on it; giving it many different faces. 
    “No one that I knew about even questioned the appointment of Brother Knorr,” says C. W. Barber, “and everyone was determined to stand shoulder to shoulder supporting him and proving our devotion to Jehovah’s organization."  yb75 pp. 183-256
    This is one reason why I left the organization.  I had fallen into idolatry.  I now give exclusive devotion to the Father in heaven and not to an earthly organization. Isaiah 46:5  I do not attach any earthly entity to my God. I do not bow down to men and their false doctrine. I obey the teachings of, and am devoted to, my King, Jesus Christ who is the "husband" of his Bride.  2 Cor 11:2; Rev 19:16; Rev 22:17
  5. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in "WITNESSING" AT THE CART   
    I have explained the assumed role of the elders over and over on this forum..  They are a counterfeit priesthood, the “man of lawlessness”; which I mentioned in my opening post. 
    Is it too hard to acknowledge Jesus as our judge?
    "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son. And he gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.”  John 5:22,27
    And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."  John 9:39
    Every “slave” since Christ must be a good steward of God’s Word.  They must support completely Christ’s truth.  Each one of them…no matter if they are male or female.  To do so as anointed ones, they must speak it, whether male or female.  1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 13:15
    Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. 1 Cor 4:1,2
    This does not say to be faithful to other “slaves” who preach their own doctrine.  (Should I list the GB’s temporarily sealed and stamped doctrines that have changed regularly?)  A slave of Christ's first and foremost commitment and loyalty is to Christ and his truth!   He is their one and only head, not other slaves who divert from his word. 
    To say there were no “faithful and discreet slaves”, or a slave of his or her time period, that was a faithful steward gathering spiritual provisions from all slaves of God’s House at the time… before the organization existed, has no scriptural basis.  None.  (Matt 25:14-20)   You are listening to the doctrine of men. 1 Pet 2:1
     What Christ did warn of, is a wicked slave, and that wicked one would arise during the last days and “beat” his fellow slaves because they refuse his false doctrine!    That wicked one would expect full devotion to his teachings alone, whether they were in line with Christ’s words or not. If the GB supported Christ, they would admonish their fellow “slaves” to do the same. They would hear their brothers out and consider not the opinion of “Gentile” helper’s  but those of “Israel” under the anointed Body of Christ.  Instead, the GB spiritually “kill” any of “Israel” who turn to Christ.  Rev 13:11,15 This is wickedness, and wickedness is sourced in Satan’s powerful spirit.
     Normally, a JW would reject an institution based on falsehoods in other aspects of life.  So why would they accept failed and recorded falsehoods from an organization inspired by men, who make the bogus claim that it is God’s organization?
    “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”  2 Thess 2:9-12
    "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. 1 Tim 3:1-9
    Just as the Egyptian sorcerers, Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, the GB resist Christ, teaching what they choose, and when.  If it fails, they blame Christ.  Jannes and Jambres were thought to contribute to the idea of the golden calf to “lead” the people away from YHVH and into idolatry.  The majority of JWs will not worship God without the organization, as they believe it is the only way to salvation. 
    14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”  Rev 22:14,15
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in 2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth   
    You must think I believe in the trinity.  I don't.  John 14:28; 5:19
    Yes, God is greater than any other being.  Jesus was His firstborn creation, the Son of God, and it was through Jesus that God brought forth creation. 
     Prov 8:22:31
    “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.”  Col 1:15-17
    As the Logos, (John 1:1) he worked as one with God throughout time, and with the nation of Israel.  As an example:
    "Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. "1 Cor 10:1-4
    Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
    57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
    58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”  John 8:54-58
    How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? (John 5:41-44)
    Do you see that God has bestowed honor on His Son?  What about glory?
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.  John 17:5
    And you believe God does not want us to give relative worship to His Son?  Are there any examples where Jesus told those who did worship him when on earth, to stop doing so? 
    The GB, who have admitted that they do not receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit, have assumed that they can change scripture to reflect partiality to whom is to be worshiped -  scripture that is inspired by God.   This effort comes from the minds of men to push a doctrine.  They will be responsible for concocting the doctrine that Christ is not to receive any worship. 
    Jesus is a God.  He is the Son of God.
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.  Isa 9:6
    God is looking for those who do not view any physical mountain as a place to worship – no “mountainlike organization”. That includes the earthly Watchtower and its images, built in the world influenced by Satan.   John 4:21-24   Zion is spiritual only, built with anointed “living stones”, the Spirit of God, and Christ as the chief cornerstone. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22
    When you read Rev 5:11-14, please notice that only in this one case involving Christ, does the NWT leave the word, proskyneō, as “worship”, since God on His throne is also mentioned. When reading these scriptures, do you accept it as worship given to both God and the Lamb, or do you ignore Christ and only acknowledge worship is given to God here?  If so, you are practicing hypocrisy.  
    Christ and the Father are our salvation, not an organization that suffers from the same corruption that exists in other organizations in the world.  To believe so, is idolatry. 
    Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
    That is a true statement that blows a hole in the validity of your organization.  But, damage control kicked in the same month.  A lie was generated, spoken from the other side of your leaders’ mouth:
    Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation.”
    The faithful anointed are ambassadors for Christ. 2 Cor 5:20 They are God’s “witnesses” in truth – the truth they receive from Christ by Holy Spirit. Matt 7:7; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9,10 They become “one” with Christ in his Body. 1 Cor 12:12; 10:17  Just as Paul spoke with Christ once he was in heaven, so do they. 2 Cor 12:8,9  Christ is there for all of us, to approach in prayer.  It is through Christ, that we come to know the Father.
    You said, "We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him."
    You would not apply that theory when it comes to God, would you.
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  John 14:6
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in 2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth   
    Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest..  Matt  11:28
    How can that be done if one is not allowed to pray to Christ? The early temple was a place of worship.  If Jesus is the “chief cornerstone” of heavenly Zion/Holy City, Temple, he also deserves our relative worship.
    I did not see a (literal) temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.  Rev 21:22,23
     Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
    “You are worthy to take the scroll
        and to open its seals,
    because you were slain,
        and with your blood you purchased for God
        persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
    10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
        and they will reign[b] on the earth.”
    11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:
    “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
        to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
        and honor and glory and praise!”
    13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
    “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
        be praise and honor and glory and power,
    for ever and ever!”
    14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.  Rev 5:6-14
    They “fell down and worshiped” both the Father and Jesus Christ. 
    Heb 1: 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” 
    Men, who make up doctrine and change scripture by placing the word “obeisance” for any instances of worship given to Christ when on earth, have little regard for Jesus.  The same Greek word for “worship” is translated as “worship”, only when speaking of God, and ironically, Satan. 
    Yes, the Wt uses the account of Luke 4:8, where Jesus said to Satan, “Worship the Lord your God and serve him only”.   Shouldn’t Satan have been doing that instead of demanding worship be given to himself? 
    Open your eyes.  Your leaders may speak of Jesus, but they preach "another Jesus" than that of the early apostles.  2 Cor 11:34
     “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.  Matt 23:13
  8. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "WITNESSING" AT THE CART   
    Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: We ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come. 
    BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began.  w88 10/15 pp. 15-2
    “as if from us” – The apostles were “ambassadors for Christ”.  They were authentic “christs”/anointed under Christ as their Head  2 Cor 5:20   Jesus warned us that in the last days, false “christs”/messiahs would DECEIVE THE ELECT/anointed with “great signs and wonders” and a message that the “Day of the Lord has come”.   Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,13; 2 Thess 2:9
    Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
    Have the elect (anointed saints) in the organization been deceived by Catholicism and the UN?  Have those two entities unitedly proclaimed the “day of the Lord” as the Watchtower has?
    The Day of the Lord comes, when the “man of lawlessness” is revealed. 
    He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits * in God’s sanctuary/temple publicizing that he himself is God.
    “sits” - to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one
    Who are exalted over the anointed priests?  Who say they “represent” God’s priesthood?  Who have been given by false christs, the authority TO JUDGE GOD’S SPECIAL POSSESSION AS UNFIT FOR ETERNAL LIFE? 
    * God’s temple is not found in Christendom, nor at any nation in the world.  Contrary to what Samuel Herd may say about 8 million JWs as God’s Temple, the anointed alone are God’s Temple.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22   That, you will find in earlier publications of the WT, even your IT Book. 
    The man of lawlessness tramples God’s people down with blasphemy.
    Rev 13:  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.  Rev 13:1,4-7
    “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization” of elders has challenged God’s priesthood/Temple.  Elders rule, while the anointed are silenced. They have no choice but to either kowtow to the elder body and save face,  or leave disgraced as Christ was disgraced by his own people. Matt 5:11  All of you in the organization are in subjection to this Beast that “kills” all who rejects its lies.  Rev 13:15
    Rev 11:1-3 - Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure God’s sanctuary and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the sanctuary. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles,  and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. 3 I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days,[e] dressed in sackcloth.
    The “Holy City” is Zion, the Temple of God.  The man of lawlessness is revealed by the “two witnesses” who also are “killed” by this Beast/organization.  Rev 11:7
    I don't expect you to believe me.  Your eyes are solely fixed on the world of Satan as if there, God's Kingdom will be born.  Job 14:4
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Yes, we are expected to offer prayers to God, but 1 Chron 23:13,14 has to do with sacrifices offered on behalf of the people, by the priests.  The early priesthood is from the tribe of Levi.  From that tribe, Aaron’s descendants were chosen by God to serve as priests in the temple… 
    “The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever (“everlasting”), to burn incense before (“in the presence of”) the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.” 1 Chron 23:13,14
    However, the Levites other than the priests, were also given specific tasks pertaining to the temple and support for the priesthood  – 1 Chron 23:28-32
    What happened when Korah a Levite, said to Moses and Aaron…
     “You take too much upon yourselves!  All of the community is holy, every one of them, and Yahweh is in their midst, so why do you raise yourselves over the assembly of Yahweh?”
     When Moses heard this, he fell on his face. 5 And he said to Korah and to his entire company, saying, “Tomorrow morning Yahweh will make known who is his and who is holy, and he will bring him near to him, whomever he chooses he will bring near to him. 6 Do this: take for yourselves censers, Korah and all of your company;[f] 7 tomorrow put fire in them and place incense on them beforeYahweh; the man whom Yahweh chooses will be the holy one. You take too much upon yourselves, sons of Levi!”  Numbers chapter 16
    For their assumption that anyone could serve God in His temple as a priest, Korah and his men lost their lives. 
    Therefore are they before (“in the presence of”)  the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. Rev 7:15
    It takes place in God's Temple.  The scriptures explain this holy priesthood IS the Temple, that they are “living stones” of God’s Temple, “pillars” of this Temple, the dwelling of God’s Spirit…AND…the Bride of Christ that “comes down from heaven” to be among mankind. 
    1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:19-22; Rev 3:12; 21:2
    I've never called them a "bunch of old men" - false messiahs, false prophets, yes.  Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11
    That's very true.  In the last days, there is an organization (Beast from the Sea), "false prophet" (Beast from the Earth) and the "dragon" who deceive  the "kings of the earth" (Jesus' "kings", Rev 1:5) with demonic expressions.  Rev 13:1,2,11; 16:13,14; Matt 24:15   
    The GB have most conveniently misled the anointed about their duties as priests.  They have convinced them that the elders must "represent them" as priests, fully ignoring the lesson of Korah.
  10. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Beth-Sarim - "House of Princes"   
    Seems to me how the only Prince who lived in that house was Rutherford.....and servants.
    Proof of vain, futile faith.
    Also, Rutherford believed differently than JW's now. King and Priests not need to be in the Heaven to be Kingdom's rulers over, above the Earth, in the Sky. But here on land of California. 
    Present use is for President and assistants. Of course, he need that because of health issue. Some other ill bro/sis have to wait for future blessings with hope. And thereafter to be forever at disposal of ..... 
    It stands as testimony......of good money investments. Confirmation of faith and hope will be no more because they sold building.
  11. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Then, it would be correct to notice how JW organization is not enough separated themself from this old world wicked system. Because evil thing founded its way how to spread spirit of this world into congregations and to win over spirit of Organization (whatever name to spirit you would give to be behind Organization) . 
    So much about self praise WT Society making as the only true organization (religion) that is not "dirty" as rest of the world. For sure, JW's want to be as much is possible approved by God. But this individual intention not making Organization to be "clean".... or to be the cleanest organization in the world.
  12. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in "WITNESSING" AT THE CART   
    Bible speaks about stones who witnessing and children who gives a praise. What is strange if some women doing what some men don't? 
    You doing the same here. Would we ( who are males) have to reject and make funny of your thoughts and words just because you are woman?
    WT publications said that same idea. And your explanation is based on that. .... But articles explained how NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE who are and who are not anointed. Based on this clam from WT and such information, it is good to be careful about GB too. :))
    What is work of anointed and what is work of slave? What is difference? What their service to God and to people making to be different in the past and today (1st century ...... 2000 years later)?
  13. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Little Joe in "WITNESSING" AT THE CART   
    I am presently on a road trip, camping in parts of the western states of the U.S.  I guess it could be called a therapeutic getaway for my husband, who will make some serious medical decisions next month.   Way out west, that could mean long stretches before finding a cell signal, but this campsite has internet and if my computer battery holds out, I may have a chance to get this posted.
    I happened to speak briefly to three JW women who had set up their cart and table in a national park.  It was a frigid morning after a snowfall, the temperature inching from a bright and early 6 degrees above zero, toward 20 degrees in the sunshine.  After a pleasant interchange, I mentioned 1 Cor 3:16,17 and that through my studies I have learned that the anointed were the “living stones” of the Temple of God. (1 Pet 2:5,9)   I then cited 2 Thess 2:3,4, and asked if they had considered how the “man of lawlessness” in the last days, would “sit”/rule over the temple – over the anointed ones.  One JW reached for her computer pad to do a bit of research.  She admitted it would be through a composite entity, but couldn’t give me an identity. 
    Yes, I did tell her that the man of lawlessness is the elder body, who has been given authority to judge God’s “special possession” as unworthy of receiving eternal life. (Rev 11:1,2; 13: 5-7,15) Immediately, I am told, “Jehovah is the ultimate judge”, despite the judgment of a spiritual “death” made by the elder body when one rejects the organization, or exposes its leaders’ lies.   (Matt 10:17,18; John 16:2; Rev 13:15)  I have noticed that it seems to be a common phrase among JWs that God is the judge, while they forget that Jesus has been given authority to judge.  Elders, not anointed, have no authority to do so. (John 8:51; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:4) 
     As we spoke a bit more, I was thinking how very depressing it is to see their devotion to the organization and their full blindness to the role of God’s priesthood. (Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4) (Mal 2:7) The organization’s false doctrines, have a common thread that can’t be dismissed if one cares to scrutinize them.  They all weave together to minimize and suppress the identity and role of the anointed. When I asked the JWs who they believed should be the shepherds of the congregations, the elders or the anointed ones, the answer was most definitely, the elders.   I reminded them of the time Jesus appeared to his disciples after his resurrection.  He called to them from the shore when they were fishing on the Sea of Tiberias.  He miraculously filled their nets with fish after catching none during the night.  When they arrived on shore, he had prepared a breakfast of fish and bread.  Three times Jesus told Simon Peter to “tend my sheep”, “feed my sheep”. (John 21:1-19; 1 Pet 5:2-4) With Christ as the chief cornerstone of God’s Temple, and the apostles and prophets as its foundation, the additional anointed “living stones” over the years, have been given the same assignment as Simon Peter and the others received that day, to feed Christ’s sheep.  Eph 2:19-22 
    The JWs just shook their heads and silently scoffed.  Revelation’s Beasts have successfully “trampled” any evidence of the important role of God’s priests, before the eyes of those who love the organization. (Dan 11:31,32,36; Matt 24:15,16)  They believe the anointed will not act as God’s priests and kings until a future time…once sealed and joining the “144,000” in heaven. This is another false doctrine, according to God’s word.  2 Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13; Heb 12:22; Rev 5:9,10)
    As Dan 11:36 states, and with the help of a false prophet (Rev 13:11,12), the “man of lawlessness”/Beast from the Sea has done…
    “…exactly as he pleases, claiming to be greater than every god there is, even blaspheming the God of gods, and prospering…” 
    I think all of us are aware of just how easy it is to be captivated by lies.  We are also aware that believing in lies can result in one’s slavery to them. (Rom 6:16)  When we are taken “captive” by lies, it facilitates oppression born from a belief of what we erroneously accept as truth. (Col 2:8; 2 Thess 2:9,10; Rev 13:10) Our heart becomes hardened to any possibility of an alternative understanding of God’s word.  (Mark 8:17; Heb 4:7) 
    The conversation quickly concluded, and I walked away from these three lovely women, who were vocally content and at peace with their belief, that the layout of headship grafted on paper depicting their earthly organization, is correct. (1 Thess 5:3) It begins with “Jehovah”, to Jesus, the elders, and the rest of its members. God’s priests remain anonymous; scattered among them, and at the same time “surrounded” and held fast by demonic expressions used against them. (Jer 23:2; 50:17; Rev 16:13,14; 20:7-9) 
    Through the coming of “Elijah” sent by Christ (Matt 17:11), the words that Jesus read from Isa 61:1,2 apply again today:
    The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
    because he has anointed me
    to preach good news to the poor.
    He has sent me
    to proclaim release to the captives
    and recovery of sight to the blind,
    to set free the oppressed,
    19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
    20 He then rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. And the eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today as you listen, this Scripture has been fulfilled.”  Luke 4:18-21
    Yes, it has been fulfilled, a second time for those hearts that long for freedom from oppression and lies.   
    For consideration:
    “Who are the gods?”
    “Two Witnesses/”Elijah” and “Moses”
    “Elijah Turns Hearts”
    Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
  14. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Jesus is not only called the Son of God, but the Son of Man. 
    Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”  John 22:70
    In heaven, he is referred to as the Son of Man:
     “Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.”  Rev 14:14
    If the Son of Man is Jesus in his fleshly body when on earth, ( John 1:14) why isn’t he called the Son of God only, when in heaven?
    He is the first of the new creation, with both human and spiritual qualities.  1 Cor 15:49
    God has other “sons” in the image of Christ.
    “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”  1 John 3:1,2
  15. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Jesus is not only called the Son of God, but the Son of Man. 
    Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”  John 22:70
    In heaven, he is referred to as the Son of Man:
     “Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.”  Rev 14:14
    If the Son of Man is Jesus in his fleshly body when on earth, ( John 1:14) why isn’t he called the Son of God only, when in heaven?
    He is the first of the new creation, with both human and spiritual qualities.  1 Cor 15:49
    God has other “sons” in the image of Christ.
    “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”  1 John 3:1,2
  16. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Isa 66:1,2:  This is what the Lord says:
    “Heaven is my throne,
        and the earth is my footstool.
    Where is the house you will build for me?
        Where will my resting place be?
    Has not my hand made all these things,
        and so they came into being?”
    declares the Lord.
    “These are the ones I look on with favor:
        those who are humble and contrite in spirit,
        and who tremble at my word.”
    Ps 132:7-9,13,14:  “Let us go to His dwelling place,
        let us worship at his footstool, saying,
    8 ‘Arise, Lord, and come to your resting place,
        you and the ark of your might.
    9 May your priests be clothed with your righteousness;
        may your faithful people sing for joy.’”
    For the Lord has chosen Zion,
        he has desired it for His dwelling, saying,
    14 “This is my resting place for ever and ever;
        here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
    Ps 15 - Lord, who may dwell in your sacred tent?
        Who may live on your holy mountain?
    2 The one whose walk is blameless,
        who does what is righteous,
        who speaks the truth from their heart;
    3 whose tongue utters no slander,
        who does no wrong to a neighbor,
        and casts no slur on others;
    4 who despises a vile person
        but honors those who fear the Lord;
    who keeps an oath even when it hurts,
        and does not change their mind;
    5 who lends money to the poor without interest;
        who does not accept a bribe against the innocent.
    Whoever does these things
        will never be shaken..
    God’s dwelling/”earth” (inhabited home)/footstool/priesthood/144,000/Bride..is Zion. 
    “The children of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
        all who despise you will bow down at your feet
    and will call you the City of the Lord,
        Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
    15 “Although you have been forsaken and hated,
        with no one traveling through,
    I will make you the everlasting pride
        and the joy of all generations. 
    “The glory of Lebanon will come to you,
        the juniper, the fir and the cypress together,
    to adorn my sanctuary;
        and I will glorify the place for my feet.”  Isa 60:14,15,13
     “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.”  Acts 17:24
    “Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him; for God’s sanctuary is holy, and that is what you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17
    "Then I looked, and there on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him were 144,000 who had His name and His Father’s name written on their foreheads."  Rev 14:1
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    "But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the curtain, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift,* but an unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death."  Num 18:7
    Pearl Doxsey, Who "renders sacred service, day and night" in God's Temple?   
    4womaninthewilderness blogspot
  19. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
     Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
    14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know.”
    So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.”  Rev 7:9,10,13-15
    The “great crowd” are the anointed remnant/priesthood that are found faithful after Armageddon.  Only God’s designated priests were allowed to serve in God’s temple on earth.  It is the same in heaven.  They are God’s “dwelling”/ “living stones” of the Temple.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17
    A false christ/ false prophet is not sent by God, but by Satan to mislead the “elect”. Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,12 Jesus sends those whom HE chooses. John 13:20   He gave us warning of the possible “wicked slave” who would spiritually “eat and drink with drunkards”. (elders, helpers “drunk” on the combined teachings of the GB and their own)  Matt 24:48-51  A faithful slave would not condemn ("beat") his fellow slaves for questioning his faulty/changed teachings.  He would not judge them as spiritually “dead” as the GB direct the elders to carry out, and have done, over and over for years.  He would welcome all offers of spiritual provisions from his fellow slaves.  Simply because the GB are lording it over their “brothers” in Christ, doesn’t mean there isn’t a “faithful slave” whom Jesus has chosen to care for his belongings.  Matt 17:11; John 13:20; Rev 11:1-3   The difference between the GB and a faithful slave sent by Christ, is that one leads the listener to Christ – not to an organization, and not to themselves.  
    All you see is what the WT offers you.  As long as you stay put in that environment you will not know how those who have left the organization worship, or that they may have found an authentic “faithful slave” with truth to offer. 
    Are JWs worshiping God whole-souled, or has their dedication to a “worldwide organization” led them away from true worship?  Those who “worship” the Beast/organization that is guided by a false prophet (Rev 13:11) say, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to make war with him?”  This is the same Beast that overcomes the anointed through blasphemy targeted against them.  Rev 13:4-7
    Can truth/light reside with falsehood/darkness? 2 Cor 6:14 Would Jesus, who is Truth, allow his servants to spread falsehoods worldwide, especially when he promised the Helper would tell them “all things”?  John 14:2 You do realize that every piece of wrongful teaching from the GB reached all corners available at the time of its distribution?  Millions of people read them, JWs and those not JWs.  Doesn’t the fact that the organization exposed their list of falsehoods/”beliefs clarified" prove beyond a doubt that Jesus’ Spirit is not found in the hearts of your leaders?   It truly is slander against the Son of God to believe he condones falsehoods. 
    Telling truth does not equate to hate!  Did Jesus hate the Pharisees when he told them truth?  You speak of hate frequently; perhaps it is you who hate those who challenge your organization and leaders?
    The thousand year reign of Christ began in the first century. Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15:25 The organization’s appearance on the worldly scene comes with it, the development and eventual presence of the “man of lawlessness”/Beast of Rev 13:1,2,18; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Matt 24:15,16.   Rev 18:4-8
    “when”…you are as confident of their destiny as they are, so much so that their address is "1 Kings Drive".  What did Paul say about such individuals?  
    "Oh, you are already filled! You have already become rich! You have begun to reign without us! If only that were really true, so that we could reign with you!" 1 Cor 4:8
  20. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Wait a moment. Jesus gave specific name for holy spirit - Helper, with specific Task.  But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.  -John 14, NWT
    Is this "coincidence or for purpose" that GB have human Helper/s and not spiritual Helper??
    Is this "coincidence or for purpose" that GB used this specific Bible wording, and gave this "title" to this people who are not "anointed" ??
    Is this what Jesus meant, how Father will give human helpers who working in various Committees of WT Corporation??
    9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. - Rev 7
    And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
    2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
    3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, - Rev 14
    I am pretty stupid sometimes, but after reading Revelation i have to notice how BOTH GROUP are BEFORE THRONE.
  21. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    "But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the curtain, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift,* but an unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death."  Num 18:7
    Pearl Doxsey, Who "renders sacred service, day and night" in God's Temple?   
    4womaninthewilderness blogspot
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    This remind me on something. Each person who are able to recognize, to see holy spirit manifestation in other person (words and deeds) also need to have that same spirit. Or opposite spirit perhaps :))
    Illustration: If i speak German i can recognize and understand all people who speaking German. If i don't speak German i can make guess how some language is German but will not be able to understand what German people saying. 
    It is possible to make conclusion that GB is under influence of particular spirit, if you are under same spirit influence, too. 
    But if you are under influence of other spirit you will see difference, too. 
  23. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    My opening scriptures were Rev 5:9,10.  If you will look again at the WT’s Greek Interlinear, it states that the kings/priests will reign ON the earth.  Do you want to change that truth, Arauna?  If you could only see that a “new creation” is both heavenly and human.  They will serve God in heaven and as the early priests were commissioned to do – teach and serve the people under the direction of their High Priest, Jesus Christ..  Mal 2:7; Rev 1:5,6; 7:15  Can God’s priesthood teach the people if they remain in a spiritual state that the rest of God’s children do not have access to? 
    Can they say these words and be heard if they are out of contact with God’s future children?...
    “And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the one who hears, let him say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty, let him come. The one who wants, let him take the water of life freely.”  Rev 22:17
    Can “New Jerusalem” prepared as a bride, come down from heaven if it is to remain in heaven?  Rev 22:2
    Remember, the “144,000” are the Temple, the Holy City.  They bring God’s Spirit/direction/guidance to His children. 
     And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,
    “Behold, the dwelling of God is with humanity,
    and he will take up residence with them,
    and they will be his people
    and God himself will be with them.  Rev 21:3
    The dwelling of God is the Temple/House of God – 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Cor 6:19; Eph 2:20-22
    So, his ability to come back to earth has now passed.  Is this what you are saying?  Where are the scriptures that support this?  I have provided scripture that show Jesus returning to the earth.
    And after he had said these things, while they were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. 10 And as they were staring into the sky while he was departing, behold, two men in white clothing stood by them 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand there lookin] into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven like this will come back in the same way you saw him departing into heaven!” Acts 1:9-11
    And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of God worship him.”  Heb 1:6
     I am pretty amazed that Gen 28:12-17 and John 1:51 do not help you see that Jesus will be on the earth in the Kingdom.  I hope you actually read them.  A symbolic stairway in Jacob's vision is set up between heaven and earth.  The descendants of Jacob in Genesis, are “Israel”.  His descendants, the “144,000” inherit the earth.  Jesus referred to the stairway again in John, with his “angel”/messengers “ascending and descending” upon the Son of Man.  
    An anointed, refined and found faithful can be sealed while on the earth.  Yet even so, their obedience only to Christ must continue until he returns.  1 Cor 1:21,22; Eph 1:13; 4:30
    Can you see you are creating a doctrine with no sound basis?  How do you know this?  You speak of unity among all in the organization, yet they are all individuals, both men and women.  You have even in error, designated that the organization's members are the Body of Christ.  But, when it comes the the true anointed Body of Christ you now say there will be no men or women, but clones as your GB portray them, once God's Kingdom arrives.  You are applying two sets of standards, which is hypocrisy.   
    Yes they do...in heaven.  
    You can see the slaves however you like, but I detect you looking through the lens of the GB who are telling all JWs lies about the anointed ones.  I see what scripture points out clearly, that the elders have usurped the role of God’s priesthood. Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:6  Revelation’s “Jezebel” feeds God’s servants/slaves lies, and expects gratitude given to an organization, an idol.  Your very words speak their lies. The ancient Jezebel killed the prophets of God (1 Kings 18:13);  today’s “Jezebel” spiritually “kills” any anointed as well as their companions who see truth and reveal “her” lies.  Rev 13:11,14-17
    But I have against you that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess,(Rev 13:11) and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality (spiritual harlotry) and to eat food sacrificed to idols.  Rev 2:20
    For false messiahs and false prophets will appear, and will produce great signs and wonders in order to deceive, if possible, even the elect
  24. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Nope we can’t blame their lack of inspiration by Holy Spirit on distance.  What they do blame it on, is Jesus. 
    Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. w17 February p. 26
    In light of this admittance, what is absolutely ironic is the emphasis on “pure language”.
    It is especially noteworthy that the language that God gives his servants is said to be pure. This is true, not because of grammatical construction, but because it gives evidence of moral and spiritual cleanness. There is no allowance in this language for lying, deceit, or a tricky tongue. Those who speak this language must always speak truth. w91 4/1 p. 24-25
    The organization boasts that “pure language” is found in the organization, when at the same time its leaders fail in providing truth. 
    Jesus did promise to teach his faithful servants “all things”, which would be “perfect spiritual food”.  John 14:26; 1 John 2:27  Since the GB cannot receive it, neither do they receive the “pure language” from God...or anyone who learns from them.    
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in THE REIGNING 144,000   
    Individuality and unity is what should be expected, and not clones as you said well. According to vision and description with word "bride" in the Bible, it would be more accurate to see artistic pictures of female persons (in heaven or earth) as 144000.
    I can say how don't see any special need for 144000 to be in Heaven for purpose to reign. That can be done also very good from Earth too. But maybe we can say, for fun, that problem is hidden in transferring power of spirit from Heaven to Earth. We been explained by WT Society how "miracles" stopped. In that context it seems how one of "miracle" is to be inspired by God also finished in 1 century. :))) Perhaps that could be reason why is important for 14400 to be lifted in Heaven. Because distance must be too far, too long to be handled by spirit. :)))) 
    This too verses show how distance is not obstacle for spirit's activity in 1 century. I really don't see why GB and Helpers making issue and such problem about "inspiration" and "be inspired" ?!! :)) 

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