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Witness

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  1. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Ray Devereaux in RECOGNIZING THE WOLF   
    g93 3/22 p. 3
    THE story is told of a boy who watched the sheep of the villagers. To stir up a bit of excitement, one day he cried out, “Wolf! Wolf!” when there was no wolf. The villagers rushed out with clubs to drive off the wolf, only to find that there was none. It was such great fun that later on the boy repeated his cry. Again the villagers rushed out with their clubs, only to discover that it was another false alarm. After that a wolf did come, and the boy sounded the warning, “Wolf! Wolf!” but the villagers dismissed his cry as another false alarm. They had been fooled too often.
    So it has become with those who proclaim the end of the world. Down through the centuries since Jesus’ day, so many unfulfilled predictions have been made that many no longer take them seriously.
    Does the failure of such predictions to come true convict as false prophets those who made them, within the meaning of Deuteronomy 18:20-22? That text reads: “The prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: ‘How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?’ when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak.” 
    There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world’s end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.
     
    We can see the Wt is trying to remove itself from being labeled “false prophets”. Does this mean that God also has turned a blind eye to their many failed predictions as they have done?
    The leaders of “Israel” and all anointed (New Jerusalem/holy city) are to bear the name of God, symbolically. (Jer 25:29; Dan 9:18)  Anything that comes out of their mouths is to be in truth with Jesus Christ’s teachings. But are they?  Jesus tells us that we can detect the false teachers/prophets from the genuine teachers he has sent, by what comes out of their mouth, what “fruit”/teachings they have produced.  (Matt 7:15-19)  In Matt 7:15, Jesus calls them “false prophets" - "ravaging wolves". 
    The second key to labeling the leaders of the organization as false prophets is their “voicing expectations based on their own human interpretations.”  God calls these ones, false prophets, because they are “prophesying” and filling their hearers with false hopes…as well as grabbing the attention and a following of those witnessed to, as in the house-to-house work. 
    “This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.”  Jer 23:16
    “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”  2 Pet 1:20,21
    Can an organization claim to be guided by Holy Spirit when every prophesy made, was at the will of a human and not the will of God?  
     “Offer yourself as a role model of good actions. Show integrity, seriousness, 8 and a sound message that is above criticism when you teach, so that any opponent will be ashamed because they won’t find anything bad to say about us.”  Titus 2:7-9
     
    It is a lie that the WT has never called itself "prophets".  Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    False Prophets:  Malachi 3:18 - http://pearl-distinction.blogspot.com/
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  2. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    The have made that claim...
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
    These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
    ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
    ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    Think about it, you come from a long line of prophets!  They must have been gearing up for **1975** when this was written, which is probably why they don't make that claim today. 
    Luke 21:8 "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘**The due time** has approached.’ Do not go after them."
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  3. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    The have made that claim...
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
    These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
    ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
    ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    Think about it, you come from a long line of prophets!  They must have been gearing up for **1975** when this was written, which is probably why they don't make that claim today. 
    Luke 21:8 "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘**The due time** has approached.’ Do not go after them."
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  4. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses given €12,000 fine for incitement to hatred against ex-members, 16 March 2021   
    https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/160238/jehovahs-witnesses-given-e12000-fine-for-incitement-to-hatred-against-ex-members-ghent-correctional-court-unia-shunning-policy/
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses in Belgium must pay a €12,000 fine for the systematic and “disturbing” exclusion of ex-members who have left the organisation, the Ghent correctional court ruled on Tuesday.
    The court ruled that the non-profit association behind Jehovah’s Witnesses is guilty of inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members, reports the Belga news agency.
    “The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ shunning policy cuts to the very core of relationships, and the victims suffer both physical and psychological consequences,” one of the lawyers of the civil parties said during the trial last month.
    He claimed that once the members had left the group, they were disowned and completely isolated socially, by order of the organisation.
    The Ghent public prosecutor’s office summoned the Jehovah’s Witnesses for four charges: incitement to discrimination on the basis of religious belief against a person, and against a group, as well as incitement to hatred or violence against a person, and against a group.
    Jehovah’s Witnesses state that ex-members should be shunned like the plague,” said lawyer Pieter-Bram Lagae, who assists the ex-witness who started the case.
    “He used to sit on the Jehovah’s Judicial Committee and help decide on exclusions, until he realised it was going too far,” Lagae said. “We act, for example, for a man whose wife is still a member, and he is ignored in his own home. Or a woman who has never seen her father since the exclusion.”
    “This is just the start,” former Jehovah’s Witnesses member Patrick Haeck told Het Nieuwsblad. “We are going to the European Court. This has to stop everywhere.”
     
     
  5. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    The have made that claim...
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
    These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
    ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
    ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    Think about it, you come from a long line of prophets!  They must have been gearing up for **1975** when this was written, which is probably why they don't make that claim today. 
    Luke 21:8 "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘**The due time** has approached.’ Do not go after them."
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  6. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witness congregation blamed for rape.........Tuesday March 16 2021,   
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jehovahs-witness-congregation-blamed-for-rape-8v7m70jcp
    The Charity Commission has accused the Jehovah’s Witnesses of resisting a child protection inquiry
     
    A Jehovah’s Witness congregation was responsible for the rape of a young woman because of the power male “elders” wielded over “sheep-like” members, the Court of Appeal ruled.
    The victim had complained about Mark Sewell’s kissing and innuendo but was urged to show “compassion” by his father, who, like Sewell, was an elder at the church in south Wales.
    The Charity Commission has also claimed that the church nationally was frustrating attempts to investigate its child protection procedures.
    The victim of Sewell’s rape, known as Mrs B, did not report the attack to the church authorities until she discovered that he was sexually abusing a girl whose father was also an elder. A “judicial committee” of elders from another congregation questioned Mrs B ..........
    Why Respect Authority? - JW.ORG
    www.jw.org/.../in-gods-love/why-respect-authority Christians obey the instruction found at Romans 13:1-7. (Read.) We respect “the superior authorities” and obey the laws of the country or community where we live. These laws may affect our family, business, or possessions. For example, we pay taxes and provide information that the government requires.
    The Charity Commission has accused the Jehovah’s Witnesses of resisting a child protection inquiry
    You decide who is telling the truth here  
     
  7. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from César Chávez in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:
    “The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   
    Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 
    Sobering yet something we look forward to.
    …they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 
    The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  
    I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  
  8. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:
    “The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   
    Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 
    Sobering yet something we look forward to.
    …they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 
    The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  
    I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:
    “The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   
    Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 
    Sobering yet something we look forward to.
    …they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 
    The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  
    I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Right before Peter said those words, he told the people…
    Jesus is
    “‘the stone you builders rejected,
        which has become the cornerstone.’  Acts 4:11
    The organization is observable, and the leadership’s visibility is well seen through their broadcasts.  They magnify themselves and their great building attempts; all in the name of “Jehovah”.  There is promise of a token contribution to Jesus by a coming video production on his life.  Yet, the organization also explained that it felt there was too much emphasis made on the name of Jesus in the early years, so a change to more emphasis on the name, “Jehovah” was established.  What audacity.  There is no comparison of the early apostles’ teachings about Christ, to the teachings of the organization’s leaders. 
    So, where is the chief cornerstone?  Is Jesus the cornerstone of a physical organization? He is the cornerstone of God’s spiritual Temple, built with “living stones”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) How disgusting to think that Jesus would be proud of earthly possessions – the same possessions that Satan offered him in the wilderness.  (Matt 6:21; Luke 4:5-7)
    The chief cornerstone of the organization are false christs – false teachers/prophets.  (Matt 24:24,11-13; Luke 21:8)
    How I wish JWs would turn to Christ and reject these deceitful men.  As you say, it is Jesus who grants us salvation through obedience to him.  But JWs obey what and who they physically see.  
    Do we really want to stand before Christ during judgment to hear him say, “I never knew you” because we rejected him as the chief cornerstone of the Temple built on his body?  (Matt 7:21-23)
     
    The stone the builders rejected
        has become the cornerstone;
    23 the Lord has done this,
        and it is marvelous in our eyes.
    24 The Lord has done it this very day;
        let us rejoice today and be glad.  Ps 118:22-24
    "the builders rejected"  
    How telling is that!  The builders are busy building Ramapo with slave labor and treasures on earth!
    Glory
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Right before Peter said those words, he told the people…
    Jesus is
    “‘the stone you builders rejected,
        which has become the cornerstone.’  Acts 4:11
    The organization is observable, and the leadership’s visibility is well seen through their broadcasts.  They magnify themselves and their great building attempts; all in the name of “Jehovah”.  There is promise of a token contribution to Jesus by a coming video production on his life.  Yet, the organization also explained that it felt there was too much emphasis made on the name of Jesus in the early years, so a change to more emphasis on the name, “Jehovah” was established.  What audacity.  There is no comparison of the early apostles’ teachings about Christ, to the teachings of the organization’s leaders. 
    So, where is the chief cornerstone?  Is Jesus the cornerstone of a physical organization? He is the cornerstone of God’s spiritual Temple, built with “living stones”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) How disgusting to think that Jesus would be proud of earthly possessions – the same possessions that Satan offered him in the wilderness.  (Matt 6:21; Luke 4:5-7)
    The chief cornerstone of the organization are false christs – false teachers/prophets.  (Matt 24:24,11-13; Luke 21:8)
    How I wish JWs would turn to Christ and reject these deceitful men.  As you say, it is Jesus who grants us salvation through obedience to him.  But JWs obey what and who they physically see.  
    Do we really want to stand before Christ during judgment to hear him say, “I never knew you” because we rejected him as the chief cornerstone of the Temple built on his body?  (Matt 7:21-23)
     
    The stone the builders rejected
        has become the cornerstone;
    23 the Lord has done this,
        and it is marvelous in our eyes.
    24 The Lord has done it this very day;
        let us rejoice today and be glad.  Ps 118:22-24
    "the builders rejected"  
    How telling is that!  The builders are busy building Ramapo with slave labor and treasures on earth!
    Glory
     
  12. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Right before Peter said those words, he told the people…
    Jesus is
    “‘the stone you builders rejected,
        which has become the cornerstone.’  Acts 4:11
    The organization is observable, and the leadership’s visibility is well seen through their broadcasts.  They magnify themselves and their great building attempts; all in the name of “Jehovah”.  There is promise of a token contribution to Jesus by a coming video production on his life.  Yet, the organization also explained that it felt there was too much emphasis made on the name of Jesus in the early years, so a change to more emphasis on the name, “Jehovah” was established.  What audacity.  There is no comparison of the early apostles’ teachings about Christ, to the teachings of the organization’s leaders. 
    So, where is the chief cornerstone?  Is Jesus the cornerstone of a physical organization? He is the cornerstone of God’s spiritual Temple, built with “living stones”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) How disgusting to think that Jesus would be proud of earthly possessions – the same possessions that Satan offered him in the wilderness.  (Matt 6:21; Luke 4:5-7)
    The chief cornerstone of the organization are false christs – false teachers/prophets.  (Matt 24:24,11-13; Luke 21:8)
    How I wish JWs would turn to Christ and reject these deceitful men.  As you say, it is Jesus who grants us salvation through obedience to him.  But JWs obey what and who they physically see.  
    Do we really want to stand before Christ during judgment to hear him say, “I never knew you” because we rejected him as the chief cornerstone of the Temple built on his body?  (Matt 7:21-23)
     
    The stone the builders rejected
        has become the cornerstone;
    23 the Lord has done this,
        and it is marvelous in our eyes.
    24 The Lord has done it this very day;
        let us rejoice today and be glad.  Ps 118:22-24
    "the builders rejected"  
    How telling is that!  The builders are busy building Ramapo with slave labor and treasures on earth!
    Glory
     
  13. Like
    Witness reacted to Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Not really. Somewhere down the line watchtower got mixed up in thinking their organization can offer the same salvation as Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, it’s only Jesus Christ who can save. “Only Jesus has the power to save! His name is the only one in all the world that can save anyone” Acts 4:12 [CEV]
  14. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    I can feel the HATE coming from you through your words.  The whole of that comment is sick. 
    I did something better. I left the JW Org because of all the immorality and CSA they were trying to hide, and then I did, and still do, my own Bible studying and prayer to God through Christ. And I warn people about the dangers of the JW Org. However i also give people information about Almighty God and Christ, and about the coming judgement of every individual on Earth.  And I suggest to people that once they have the information that it would be good for them to read God's written word. I also make it known that once a person has the true knowledge, then it is their own responsibility to start to serve God as best they can.  
  15. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    The Watchtower teaches:
    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
    According to Watchtower doctrine, this means all those disfellowshipped by the elder body and announced from the platform as “no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”, would ultimately be sentenced to death stripping any future prospect of life for that person. In effect, the elder body actually believe they have the right to “save your soul”.
  16. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    🙂  I hated that sound when I was a kid.  But the sound of false prophesy and false teachings are even worse in my ears. It is either tolerated, or not heard – not recognized as scripture defines it; or, it is rejected and proclaimed verbally why it is rejected.  (Deut 18:20-22)  (Isa 58:1; Rev 8:13)
    What you say, reminds me of Isa 30:
    “What sorrow awaits my rebellious children,”
        says the Lord.
    “You make plans that are contrary to mine.
        You make alliances not directed by my Spirit,
        thus piling up your sins.
    Now go and write down these words.
        Write them in a book.
    They will stand until the end of time
        as a witness
    9 that these people are stubborn rebels
        who refuse to pay attention to the Lord’s instructions.
    10 They tell the seers,
        “Stop seeing visions!”
    They tell the prophets,
        “Don’t tell us what is right.
    Tell us nice things.
        Tell us lies.
    11 Forget all this gloom.
        Get off your narrow path.
    Stop telling us about your
        ‘Holy One of Israel.’”  Isa 30:1,8-11
     
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    It looks like you are amending your idea somewhat from the first statement.  
    Noah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the minor prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the apostles.  These were opposers who spoke against the majority, cutting to the chase by proclaiming the sins of the world around them - the sins of their own people.
    None of them had money, none answered to an established earthly organization. None were waited on daily by servants who provided all of their needs, like your organization’s leaders. None of them dressed up in the finest clothing.   But, all were spiritual men inspired by the Holy Spirit. 
    Isn’t it amazing that God can choose whom He wants to proclaim His will without the use of an earthly organization?  He has a history of doing this, but we don't see a written history of His using an organization.  
    There is a valid account of a family in the mid 1800’s who lived a life of homesteading, as thousands have over the years.  They had a Bible that they read out of each day and they tried to live their life by it.  An earthly worldly organization wasn’t necessary to bring them the scriptures. 
    I think as an elder, you desire the position you have as a “natural man” appointed with authority in the organization.  (1 Cor 2:12-16)  It's hard to let go of a life that rewards one's personal esteem.  (Matt 16:25)
    “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
        neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the Lord.
    9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
        so are my ways higher than your ways
        and my thoughts than your thoughts.”  Isa 55:8,9
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    🙂  I hated that sound when I was a kid.  But the sound of false prophesy and false teachings are even worse in my ears. It is either tolerated, or not heard – not recognized as scripture defines it; or, it is rejected and proclaimed verbally why it is rejected.  (Deut 18:20-22)  (Isa 58:1; Rev 8:13)
    What you say, reminds me of Isa 30:
    “What sorrow awaits my rebellious children,”
        says the Lord.
    “You make plans that are contrary to mine.
        You make alliances not directed by my Spirit,
        thus piling up your sins.
    Now go and write down these words.
        Write them in a book.
    They will stand until the end of time
        as a witness
    9 that these people are stubborn rebels
        who refuse to pay attention to the Lord’s instructions.
    10 They tell the seers,
        “Stop seeing visions!”
    They tell the prophets,
        “Don’t tell us what is right.
    Tell us nice things.
        Tell us lies.
    11 Forget all this gloom.
        Get off your narrow path.
    Stop telling us about your
        ‘Holy One of Israel.’”  Isa 30:1,8-11
     
     
  19. Haha
    Witness reacted to xero in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    If you could study Hemingway's style and try to copy that, maybe someone might listen. You jabber on and on. It's like nails on a chalkboard going through anything you've posted. I say this with all due respect and when I say "nails on a chalkboard" I mean that in a good way.
  20. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from César Chávez in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    There doesn’t appear to have been a need for the anointed and true believers in Christ down through the ages, to develop an organization…until Russel came along.  Jesus said God is looking for those who worship “in spirit and truth”.  Was Russel worshiping in “spirit and truth”?  How many untruths did that man, and all leaders who followed him, pronounce as truths?  Preaching untruths – lies – is evidence of the lack of Holy Spirit from the God of Truth.  (Num 23:19)
    In order to 'gather together as the day draws near', an organization isn’t necessary.  I understand that there have been new regulations,  new warnings where no JW  can “gather” on zoom independently for Bible study, or even to pray together - nothing aside of outlined protocol approved by the GB or their helpers is acceptable.   Is that rule found in the scriptures?  Or, is this a necessary rule that ensures the life of and unity within, an organization? The GB is afraid of what these independent ones may learn from one another, who may realize they have been duped.  The encouraging attitude of the Bereans ends with the JW baptism. (Acts 17:11)
    As an elder, are you enforcing these new decrees?
    Announcements and Reminders March 2021
    FOR ELDERS
    7. Private Meetings Arranged via Video conference: “The faithful and discreet slave” has provided practical, Scriptural guidance that highlights principles for individuals to consider when deciding whether to organize or attend a social gathering. (Matt. 24:45-47) Rather than making rules, the emphasis should be on applying Bible principles. When Bible principles are applied, social gatherings can be refreshing and bring honor to Jehovah. —1 Cor. 10:23, 24, 31, 32. 8. While there is no objection to wholesome social gatherings, we have received reports that some have begun to arrange additional meetings and events for spiritual instruction, even beginning and ending such meetings with prayer. While the individuals organizing and participating in such meetings likely are well-intentioned, there is no provision for such arrangements. 9. Jehovah’s people receive ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions as well as through JW Broadcasting and our publications. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed through the faithful and discreet slave. Care should be taken not to organize or promote meetings for spiritual feeding beyond what has been provided by the organization. Such meetings could detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through his congregation on earth today. Adhering to this direction will help all of God’s people to “be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought” and to remain “stabilized in the faith.”—1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7.
    Detract from what Jesus is accomplishing, or from what men are attempting to accomplish?  No, there is a need to remain in the same mind as the GB, who by the way, are not inspired.  There was no valid scripture given to support their case.  What rules are we to follow, those of men or those of Jesus Christ? If JWs proudly say they follow the teachings of Christ but choose to adhere to the laws of men, are they not hypocrites?
    I do not sit with the deceitful,
        nor do I associate with hypocrites.
    5 I abhor the assembly of evildoers
        and refuse to sit with the wicked.  Ps 26:4,5
    It is wickedness to control the entire spirituality of another, when what is taught transgresses the laws of Christ.
    So, what do JWs want,  a social life or truth?  Obviously, the organization only wants their gatherings to be on a social level, and to leave the scriptures out of it. 
    About the angels are...
    The Greek meaning for angel is “messenger”.   
    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g32
    This Greek word is also used in relationship to John the Baptist. (Matt 11:10) Yes, Jesus referred to him as an “angel”/messenger. 
    Jesus’ “angels” are his anointed servants.  (Mal 3:1-5; John 13:20; Matt 13:37-43; Rev 1:1; 11:1-3; Zech 4:1-5,14; Rev 18:4-8; 14:6-12,15-19)
    By the exposure of truth in the presence of lies, the angel/servants/messengers sent by Christ are an integral part of the harvest –separating out the “sons of the kingdom” through the word of Truth instilled in them, by the spirit of God.  (Matt 13:38)
    Satan also has his angel messengers who deceive the elect (anointed).  They speak lies and enforce their oppressive rules, to ensure their physical life, and that of their earthly organization.  (2 Cor 11: 13-15; Rev 13:11,12; 16:13-16; 20:7-10)  (Matt 24:24; Mark 13:19-23)
    That's the deal? Jesus condemned the Pharisees for additional rules and burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 23:4; Mark 7:7)
    God has never approved of His people listening to lies, and becoming liars themselves. (Jer 23:16)
    No, that's not the deal.   We don’t put up with people who lock us away from investigating our beliefs, sharing what we feel with others, or from preventing us from knowing Truth...or seeking out our anointed brethren who are to follow one Master, Jesus Christ.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    People leave the organization because of its sins.  Where do the scriptures validate their disfellowshipping? They certainly do not need to repent for leaving a sin-filled organization.  They should repent for their time spent there. ( James 4:4) Remember also , what has been said by the organization concerning disfellowshipping? 
    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. w52 11/15 p. 703
    Disfellowshipping is a spiritual killing.  The person who wrote this and the leadership who approved of this, condone the heartfelt act of killing, which is judgment made by men.  They believe they have the power given by God to judge another as deserving or not, of eternal life.  Rev 13:15
    The proof is how JWs treat disfellowshipped people, all those disfellowshipped whether they have committed a sin or not.  Yet, even if their heart is repentant for sinning, they may wait for months to be reinstated at the approval of men. 
    As Jesus said to the Pharisees who wanted the woman stoned for adultery, “Whoever hasn’t sinned should throw the first stone.”  John 8:7
     
  22. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    It looks like you are amending your idea somewhat from the first statement.  
    Noah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the minor prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the apostles.  These were opposers who spoke against the majority, cutting to the chase by proclaiming the sins of the world around them - the sins of their own people.
    None of them had money, none answered to an established earthly organization. None were waited on daily by servants who provided all of their needs, like your organization’s leaders. None of them dressed up in the finest clothing.   But, all were spiritual men inspired by the Holy Spirit. 
    Isn’t it amazing that God can choose whom He wants to proclaim His will without the use of an earthly organization?  He has a history of doing this, but we don't see a written history of His using an organization.  
    There is a valid account of a family in the mid 1800’s who lived a life of homesteading, as thousands have over the years.  They had a Bible that they read out of each day and they tried to live their life by it.  An earthly worldly organization wasn’t necessary to bring them the scriptures. 
    I think as an elder, you desire the position you have as a “natural man” appointed with authority in the organization.  (1 Cor 2:12-16)  It's hard to let go of a life that rewards one's personal esteem.  (Matt 16:25)
    “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
        neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the Lord.
    9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
        so are my ways higher than your ways
        and my thoughts than your thoughts.”  Isa 55:8,9
  23. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    People leave the organization because of its sins.  Where do the scriptures validate their disfellowshipping? They certainly do not need to repent for leaving a sin-filled organization.  They should repent for their time spent there. ( James 4:4) Remember also , what has been said by the organization concerning disfellowshipping? 
    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. w52 11/15 p. 703
    Disfellowshipping is a spiritual killing.  The person who wrote this and the leadership who approved of this, condone the heartfelt act of killing, which is judgment made by men.  They believe they have the power given by God to judge another as deserving or not, of eternal life.  Rev 13:15
    The proof is how JWs treat disfellowshipped people, all those disfellowshipped whether they have committed a sin or not.  Yet, even if their heart is repentant for sinning, they may wait for months to be reinstated at the approval of men. 
    As Jesus said to the Pharisees who wanted the woman stoned for adultery, “Whoever hasn’t sinned should throw the first stone.”  John 8:7
     
  24. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from César Chávez in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Perhaps you can explain with God's Word, how I have disobeyed Jesus.
    Are you saying that it is the elder body who has been designated as the ‘harvesters’ through their shunning and disfellowshipping techniques?
     
     
  25. Upvote
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