Shiwiii

I find jw's foolish because they follow the ideas of men, which changes to suit those in the power tower. again, you have NO evidence of anything those people, who were there with their signs, did anything you think they did. You also don't have any evidence of what anyone who is df'd has done. What is said from the platform doesn't make it true. You are playing judge, jury and executioner based on what the octo-pope says to the DO/CO/BOE. . none of us have, it is the nature of humans. We are only to treat others the way Jesus did. Sometimes our human nature gets in the way, that is why we have forgiveness in the sacrifice and acceptance of what Jesus did for us, all of us.

unsubstantiated and pure speculation. I did not commission them, nor did I even know their agenda. After seeing what they were actually speaking out against, I do support them and agree that the jw practice of shunning is very un-christian. Those jw's who do shun, do so based on assumption of what they think the person has done. This is evident by the posts here by yourself and Arauna.

give me a break. You're just as bad as she is then. The assumptions made about people who no longer want to be a part of your beliefs is ridiculous. I don't even think in your own mind that those assumptions are correct, nor do they "paint the picture" as you say.

didn't you assume that those people that stood with their signs were unrepentant sinners who support LGBT? That is what you think of them, and you have NO clue as to what they believe or why they are no longer a jw. You have made yourself judge AND jury of them because they do not subscribe to what YOU believe. here is my supporting information: How do you even know this? You're not allowed to partake in the process of deciding who is shunned and who is not! Sounds like you have many assumptions.

agreed, it is a personal choice when it comes to our children. I encourage you to watch Tony's message and then, if you are willing, let me know what you think of his talk. You can even shoot me a private message if you'd like, but I am very curious what you think of it. It was in the 2015 regional convention, last talk on sunday.

Sure, ask questions. I agree with you that a person should be diligent in their understanding of what it is they are doing. I feel the same as you in regards to blaming the gb for their mistake. A person needs to be aware of their own hand in mistakes and learn form them. Sure, we as parents, those of us who are, should be responsible enough to not let our children get involved in something if we know that they are not capable of understanding the risks involved. The part you missed is where Tony Morris said that parents should withhold a drivers license from an assumed 16 year old, UNTIL they get baptized. That is what I was referring to, I wasn't singling you out at all, only making the statement that Tony Morris did. see my response to Arauna

agreed. isn't that what was proposed in Tony's hypothetical situation? no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. or their parents according to Tony Morris.

I would have to agree, it is serious and should not be taken lightly. However, the number of children baptized into being jws is pretty high and when Tony Morris is telling folks to keep a drivers license away from a child UNTIL they get baptized, leads me to believe that a jw baptism is done for many reasons other then the individual's seriousness towards God.

Yes, Tom, I should have worded it differently. Choose one: Srecko destroyed your attempt at sarcasm here in this post, Srecko destroyed your post. Srecko dismantled your sarcasm here in this post, Point is still, without trying, he made your statement void before you even said it.

I find it quite funny that Srecko destroyed your inability to form sarcasm here in this post, without intent, with his example of the Ethiopian and Phillip before your comment. Acts 8: 35-38 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

You are trying very hard to say yes and no at the same time. The fact of the matter is that the wt says one must be a baptized jw in order to survive. It is so black and white that no one batted an eye when Tony Morris was telling people how to force children to get baptized.

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..." meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. you just made my point.

they most certainly are and have stated such many times. You can deny it all you want but it is in print. Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. also to add, why is Tony Morris instructing people to withhold a drivers license from a child until they get baptized? Shouldn't this be a choice by the child once the child is no longer a child?

I appreciate your thought and position, however the question is do you warn others while out in service or cart sitting that if they are not baptized jws they will be destroyed as stated in the wt publication?

AND finally we get to the point of the matter. The wt states directly that all who are not baptized jws will not survive Armageddon, but yet you still seem to think that someone very dear to you says otherwise. Which is it? If you truly believe what 1 Peter 3:19-22 states, then it is a symbol/ pledge to God as stated in verse 21 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus and your belief in Him, but the wt states that only jws will survive, thus binding one to the wt org for salvation, when in fact we are to be bound to Jesus and by His resurrection we are saved and our pledge/symbol of this is baptism. So do you preach that if you do not belong to the org and are baptized into the wt you will not be saved?

That is NOT the question asked Tom, the question asked is in the posts above.: "do you align with the statement in the wt that ONLY baptized jws will survive Armageddon? Do you tell this to others while in service? Cart sitting?" its really not hard, unless you don't know what to say because you want to say both yes and no. Do you align or do you not? interesting point, but please consider the thief on the cross next to Jesus, was he baptized?

So........do you align with the statement in the wt? Do you tell this to others while in service? Cart sitting? "Only those baptized jws will survive"

KEEP TRYING TO MAKE DISCIPLES 14. According to Jesus’ instructions recorded at Matthew 28:19, 20, what do we try our best to do, and why? 14 Read Matthew 28:19, 20. As we conduct Bible studies, we have to try our best to “make disciples . . . , teaching them to observe all the things [Jesus has] commanded.” We need to help people understand how important it is for them to take their stand for Jehovah and his Kingdom. This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day.—1 Pet. 3:21. This was taken from the study article for Oct, Nov or Dec. I think it is to be studied in Dec. Anyway, so the jw position is that all who are not baptized jws will die at Armageddon? Do you folks tell people this when you are at their door? or at your carts?

context, surrounding those at that time. I wasn't saying in our time. good, but I hardly believe this to be common among other jws. I could be wrong though. why do you or anyone expect another to change their appearance based on what the gb says is good or not? Of course spiritual growth brings change, and I have changed who I was to who I am. The difference is that I am not changing for ANYONE here on Earth, not my appearance anyway. If I do change my appearance it is for me and no one else. John 7:23 Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” You just said that you expected the rasta to change his appearance. Do you see why some of us just can't comprehend the jw thought process? You are told two different things at the same time. "Don't judge by appearances, but you should dress this way or cut your hair like this. " This is the type of thing, while rather small, that makes some point to the gb AND jws as hypocrites. It only applies when YOU want it to. I have found nothing in the Bible to support this, maybe you can provide it for us?

Well there really is no straw man when the fact still remains that the leaders are covering up CSA within the wt.

this is pretty much all you needed to say. We all know there is a problem and the article points out a reason why it is a problem. Doesn't matter if it is leaders or regular joes committing the crimes, it is the leaders who are covering it up.

no need to add anything, you said it yourself. your personal opinion, but that part is fine. It is treating others different because of how they look is the problem. No that is scripture, Matt 8, did Jesus avoid/ treat the leaper any different then others? You do realize that lepers looked different, right? Sores, mostly dirty, etc. funny you mentioned that list, isn't that the kind of person whom they would like to be portrayed as? Someone with some sort of clout?

So what you are saying is that those who don't look the way YOU want them to, are not worth your time? I hardly think that Jesus would do the same. In fact I think it has been demonstrated enough times in the Bible where Jesus did exactly the opposite. Not to mention, John, wasn't he wearing rags for clothes and eating locusts in the wilderness? Did that bring reproach on Jehovah? Yeah, you have summed up your position completely. I get it and frankly if that is how jw's are, which I am know many are, you can keep that among yourselves. We have enough bigots in the world already. Please don't spread.

You did say if someone has dreadlocks, you treat them differently. You can say that you're not racist and once had a study...blah...blah...blah, but the fact of the matter is you know you treat people different based on appearances. Nice witness to those on this board.

Figures of speech like a jew in and around strict jews saying "oh my God" ? Which by the way should have had him killed if over heard by other devout jews.