Shiwiii

Dear Melinda, 
These four times that "Adamic death" appears in your post, none of them are in scripture, are they.  In fact, you had to insert "Adamic" into the quote of the scripture you used because it is not there in the Bible.  
 1 Corinthians 15:225-26  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
Do you see why I said what you posted was at odds with the Bible?
Is it your belief that "Adamic death" is the death Adam suffered?
Holly

Thanks for your answer, Melinda.  I find it at odds with the Bible though:
Revelation 21:4  and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.
It says "death shall be no more".
There's also these scriptures:
Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.
1 Corinthians 15:26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.
But thanks for your reply anyway.
 
Holly
 
 

Glad you asked John. I don't understand your question of my reasoning not jiving with what Paul said. I am only using scripture.
1 Cor 15:23-28 is a description of the order of resurrection. First Christ, then those who belong to Christ. that part I think we agree on. The first resurrection. There is no mention of the second resurrection in 1 Cor 15:23-28. Where I think we differ is the establishment of "the end" in verse 24. This part is after the 1000 years, and after the release of Satan to again mislead, after everything. Notice though in verse 25, where scripture tells us that Jesus must reign until the last enemy is defeated (death). Where in Revelation does it talk about death being done away with? Rev 20:14 which comes directly after the second resurrection in verses 12&13. The account in 1 Cor is a brief synopsis of what is going to happen. We know that this is not written in chronological order because of what Revelation 20 says. It is telling us what order those who are resurrected will be, not when the events take place. This set of scriptures parallel those in 1 Thess 4:15&16. Again, there is no mention of a second resurrection in these set of scriptures either. 
No and yes. Yes it will be Jesus voice. I say no because you are eluding to this happening during Jesus reign, it is not. 1 Thess 4:16 tells us that Jesus voice will raise those who died in Him, then those who are still alive, who are in Christ, will join those who were resurrected. We know that these ones are righteous because they are in Christ, so according to Rev 20:4&5 this has to be the first resurrection and they are those who will reign with Jesus. This happens at the return of Jesus as stated in 1 Thess 4:15. This allows for the co-rulers to actually rule for a full 1000 years. If it were just a few here and a few after 10 years and a few 400 years into the 1000 year reign, then there would be co-rulers who did not reign for the full 1000 years and scripture doesn't state "rule and reign for 600+ years of the 1000 year reign".
yes, it is Jesus voice. John 5:28&29 supports Rev 20:12-15 as the 2nd resurrection. Daniel 12:2 also supports this account in John and Revelation. 
 
I'm with you up to this point. 
 
Here is where I disagree, When everything is perfect is after Satan has been destroyed. Revelation 21 speaks of a new Heaven and a new Earth, thus made perfect. This can only happen after Satan has been defeated, or else it wouldn't be perfect. Revelation chapter 20 tells us nothing about everything being perfect, only that Jesus will rule and reign for 1000 years. There is nothing in scripture that speaks of this 1000 years of being made perfect, nor of a resurrection during the 1000 year reign. It is after the 1000 years that Satan, the beast, the false prophet and death and Hades are destroyed, then and only then can everything be perfect. 

Hi Ann,
Good point and good question.  I always wondered why "come to life" was interpreted so differently by the WTS in this passage..  As you pointed  out, in one instance they say "come to life" means one thing, and in the very next sentence "come to life" means something else.  And actually in the second instance they have it not meaning "resurrected" at all, but more like "self-improvement" (i.e. improving oneself thru study of WT publications until able to meet God's standards mentally, morally, physically, and spiritually---and can thereafter stand before God and continue to live based on ones own merit......continuing to live for as long as they don't sin and get annihilated in the lake of fire.)

While I agree that this portion is key to understanding the whole, you seem to be omitting the fact that the rest of the dead did not come back to life until AFTER the 1000 years have ended. No matter what we think about what or whom will be ruled during the 1000 years, scripture still states that the second resurrection does not occur until after the 1000 years have ended. 
 
but you have not provided scripture that states or supports a resurrection during the thousand years, it is only a guess in your presentation of the idea. I want to know what scriptures are used to support the societies idea of a resurrection during the thousand years which is in direct opposition to Rev 20:5. 

Can someone point me to the scriptures used by the society that state there is a resurrection during  the thousand year reign. 

Rev 20:13 says otherwise. 
 
from the context in verse 4, it is that of coming back to life from being dead, and the context doesn't change into verse 5. 

With all the warnings by God to avoid admiring the work of one’s own hands, why would any dedication to man’s work be considered a righteous act? Rev 9:20; Jer 25:12-14; Isa 2:8   And why dedicate a building to God when he says,

“‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?”  Acts 7:49

Strong’s Concordance defines this “place of rest” as kat-ap'-ow-sis; from G2664; reposing down, i.e. (by Hebraism) abode:—rest.

Thayer’s Greek lexicon mentions it as being viewed metaphorically as “the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells”

Stephen was quoting from Isaiah 66, where God continued to say,

“These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.  Isa 66:2

Why would Stephen bring this out to the disbelieving Pharisees? He told them,
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands”  Acts 7:48
He’s trying to get the same point across that Jesus did with the woman at the well:

 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.” “Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” John 4:21:23,24

When Jesus said, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days,” did he mean that in the end times, man would again devise a system of worship built around a corporate entity with roots in failed prophesies, pyramidology where 1914 originated from; and where meanings of end times must continually be changed to support an iconic date?  Acts 1:6,7

The Pharisies replied, “‘It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?’   But the temple he had spoken of was his body.”

Obviously, their hearts were hardened to the understanding that the new “Temple” arrangement would be those in Christ, his chosen ones.  Because of their lack of spiritual insight regarding this New Covenant, Stephen said,

“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!”  John 2:19-21

God resides in spirit in his Temple, the Body of Christ.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 13:5

 “Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?” For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Cor 6:19

For those anointed who are redeemed as pure and blameless, they ultimately become one with the Father and the Son, together making up the Temple of God.   John 17:11,22; Phil 2:15; Rev 3:18; Mal 3:2

“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.”  Rom 8:9

This truly puts a hole in the doctrine that the organization is an “earthly Zion”. The anointed Body is where God is worshiped, “in the Spirit and the truth”, as one in Christ. 1 Tim 3:15; 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 6:19

 “And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” 2 Cor 6:16

Looking back to the meaning of God’s place of rest, it is clear it is not found within man’s interpretation of Zion, but within his own spiritual Temple – within Christ and within his faithful anointed ones. 

They are the representatives of “true religion”.  2 Cor 5:20; 1 Cor 4:1; Mal 2:7; John 7:18,38; Rev 21:6; 22:17; 14:3,5; and not an arrangement made by man as an established corporation.  Acts 17:24; Heb 9:11; Eph 2:10

Because the organization overrides the Body of Christ, God’s true Temple, there is no unity of this Body within it.  Thus, Holy Spirit is absent in such a state.  A greater “Gentile” power has received dominance over Christ’s anointed ones – the elder body.  For those anointed who continue to allow it, they will permanently lose their connection with their Head, and “lawlessness” will continue to overwhelm and oppress them.  Isa 52:2; Rev 13:10; Isa 42:7; Isa 61:1

“He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.  They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might  on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.” 2 Thess 1:8-10

There is only one Zion, which is God’s heavenly spiritual Temple.  Rev 3:12; 21:22; Isa 33:20; 52:1

 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”  Exod 20:4

"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me”  Exod 20:5

'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'  Deut 18:20

“Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”  WT ‘81/11/15

“Righteous flee to God’s Mountain-like Organization”  Make Sure of All Things, pg 323

“For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:  whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.   Phil 3:18,19  

Earthly things = a perceived earthly Zion
Again, the WT, speaks out of both sides of the mouth.  There is a little truth in the following statement, although the redeemed, repentant, chosen ones will  “come down out of heaven” with Christ to be with faithful mankind.  Rev 3:12; 5:10; John 1:51; Rev 3:18

 “Today, Zion is represented on earth by the remaining ones of “the Israel of God,” the international congregation of spirit-anointed Christians, who have the hope of ruling with Christ in heaven.”  W 02/7/1

Through WT eyes, Zion mutates into an earthly organization and thus, becomes a full-fledged lie:

“God purposes to punish Edom for what has maliciously been done to His earthly organization, called Zion.”  ip-1 chap. 27 pp. 356-368

“The wonders about Jehovah’s organization, or “Zion,” and the truth about the spiritual paradise must be joyfully passed on “to future generations.” w15 7/15 pp. 7-11

An idol subsequently has taken form.  We should ask ourselves, if this Temple of God goes unheeded and unnoticed within the organization as the source of spiritual nourishment, and since God’s laws are written on the hearts of such ones, how does the Father in heaven view this neglect for his laws?  Rom 2:29; 2 Cor 3:3; Mal 2:7; Deut 6:24,25

“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”1 Cor 3:16,17

These words are referring to each anointed one, not just a handful who tout their own glory - "to their shame", as they are primarily responsible for suppressing the decrees of God fulfilled through his Son, Jesus Christ.  Isa 3:16-26; Rev 13:11-18

http://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com/


 

Can someone point me to the scriptures used by the society that state there is a resurrection during  the thousand year reign. 

Another sweeping generalization. Many of the ones who left retained Bible Student/JW beliefs on these. 
Also, you need to realize that Christians who advocate the Trinity and hellfire have scriptural texts to back them up and would argue that the JW views are non-biblical. It's a matter of perspective.
Stayed 'where' or ... ?
John 6:68: Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. 
Do you see the difference? It's not a 'where' but a 'whom.' Religious organizations can come and go and veer off the rails. Christians believe God and His Son are constants through all that and they are the ones who can save a believer in the end - not an organization.

So who is your mediator? 

I would say it's worshiped. I mean, what do disciples direct folks to? Jesus gathered people to Himself, and told the apostles to point others to Himself. If one is adamant in pointing someone to a website that claims to be the only way to salvation,  then those people are disciples of that website. 

Janice, I’ll try to be short to make it easier on you.  I admire your sense of obligation to answer everything I’ve written.  It wasn't expected. 

Once we break the mindset that an earthly organization, church or otherwise is not needed to worship, serve, praise our God, the Father and the Son, anything earthly becomes nonexistent in the mind and heart, and has nothing to do with developing a relationship with God and Jesus. 

"For Abraham was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God." (Heb.11:10)

God’s new Temple in Christ is represented by chosen anointed ones, as well as God and Christ. (Rev 21:22; Acts 17:24; Heb 9:11; 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16;

The power of Holy Spirit is beyond most people’s comprehension.  This power is working now in those leaving the WT who cleanse themselves of earthly defilement, moving on to serve God and Christ with their “whole heart, whole soul and whole mind” ( Matt 22:37) – with no, and I stress, no intervention from assumed authority by men.

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.”  Deut 6:4,5

The organization consistently says, "Jehovah and the organization", "Jehovah with the organization", "Jehovah and his organization", "Jehovah along with his organization".  If the Lord is one, why is he grouped with an organization, and seldom with his own Son?
“It is the Lord your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear. “ Deut 6:13


The organization swears by itself and its broadcasting station, and by doing so, those inside are following other gods.  God's laws are continuously broken by the organization and those who support it.  Will he be forgiving towards such actions? 

“You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you—  for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.” Deut 6:14

 Also, check your baptism question #2 if you haven’t yet done so. (Deut 6:13)

 Chosen ones who have left (anointed) will merge as prophesied to become the refined capstone of the Body of Christ as long as they remain faithful to their Head, Christ.  Their hearts must be sealed in their dedication to purity and truth.  ALL who realize this and have left the organization, will join with this capstone (“two witnesses”Rev 11:1-3) in praising God and declaring his name in righteousness.  (Dan 9:18; Jer 33:16)

In order to see this fulfillment one must:

Stop following and obeying what is seen.  Rev 13:8

“Set the mind on things that are above, not on things that are on earth”  Col 3:2 
Look directly at Christ as the Way, Truth, and Life to lead us to “refreshment for your soul”, in more knowledge, more understanding and an extremely close relationship with him.

“Buy” from him refined “gold” that he offers in the time of the end, and accept his discipline and  refinement.  Rev 3:18-20

Even if you feel you are a non-participant in WT’s unrepentant follies, when one tolerates dissension, abuse, lies, hypocrisy, that one partakes in it as well. 

“This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD. They say continually to those who despise the word of the Lord, ‘It shall be well with you’; and to everyone who stubbornly follows his own heart, they say, ‘No disaster shall come upon you.’” Jer 23:16,17

Obviously, God warns his people when error is made by his wayward priests and prophets.  He does so in the end through his Son, Jesus Christ.

“But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.”  Rev 2:20

“And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.”  Rev 17:5

 “ And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.  For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings (Rev 5:10; 1:6) of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.  (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)”

“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!  So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.  For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.”  Rev 18:15-17

Christ says, “Come out of her, my people,  lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues”  Rev 18:4

We cannot enter the Kingdom carrying with us the baggage of the Watchtower’s sins. 

God will not take us full of the desire of the flesh, the desire of eyes, the pride of life – all richly found within the organization.  This is “not from the Father, but from the world”  1 John 2:16  There is no exception!   There is no earthly Zion!

“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned” 1 Cor 2:14

Natural - sensitive, i.e. animate (in distinction on the one hand from G4152 (spiritual), which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from G5446,(physical) which is the lower or bestial nature):—natural, sensual.

This struggle that we both see as what really is truth “tribulates” the heart; it, alone is a sign of the end times. We choose our heart's desire, be it solely in the Father and Christ or in the world. We all must search out what true worship means to God.

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.  James 1:27

The world encompasses anything contrary to the Spirit of God; animate, sensual, natural.  If we don’t make our minds over to the Spirit of God, we will continue to look to the world for a source of salvation thinking it is something acceptable to God. 

“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” Rom 12:2

Don’t feel it necessary to respond, Janice.  I think you've had your fill.  This is here also for any who may have eyes that see.  Luke 10:23,24

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html


 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing.  I am sure there is more to your experience than what you have told us. My heart aches for you and my anger boils for those who have done these things. 
I will research more about you. I feel that is why you wrote and how you wrote. It is a disgrace when children, or anyone, is violated and people turn a blind eye. I feel those who know but do nothing are just as guilty as those who did the act.

Hi Janice,
It is the Watchtower that has hit a raw nerve, misleading thousands in impure teachings.  If you find my own statements are contradictory, please point them out as I would appreciate correcting them, if what I’ve written here doesn’t cover them. 

You are welcome to post your writing of 5/19 still if you feel the need.   You must realize I am not stopping you from doing so.  Yes, perhaps moving on is best, although I will always feel the need to defend the Father and Christ in truth.

If my comments “echo” many of those on the internet, keep in mind many do have the literal “facts” about the organization and its hypocritical history.  Combine that with prophesy being fulfilled it could and should lead one onto the path of truth.

So, in defense of this truth I will respond to many of your comments.

It is confusing when you switch from supporting anointed ones or a priestly class and then denouncing the same you feel are lording it over.  However, I don't know specifically which ones you find egregious, whether it's ones of the governing body or a certain body of elders, or all of them, or if you feel you are anointed by God chosen and capable.

The specific ones are those of the GB as well as those who support the role in obedience.  There are two promised covenants that play out in the end, one of life in Christ, one of death in Satan.  Anointed ones can fall away from Christ as I have earlier stated.  Jerusalem Above is life, while Babylon the Great is death. 

The testing of each one is allowed by God. 2 Cor 11:3,13,14,4,20 If they fail this testing, (Matt 4:8,9; Rev 13:4,1,2;17:3; Isa 31:1; Rev 9:7,9; 19:18-20; 17:14) they become Satan’s seed. Ezek 16:23-25; Jer 2:20,19,21; Hos 13:6; Rev 13:11,14,15,8,7

“See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.”  Heb 3:12

The “lording it over” other anointed ones is through the granting of it by the GB, enforced by an unanointed elder body.  It is not only the “operation of error”, “man of lawlessness”, but the two Beasts of Revelation working in unison – a dual power,  to destroy Christ’s seed – accomplished through the immoral covenant accepted, the covenant in death. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:14,15; 19:20; Dan 11:36,37; 8:11,24; Mark 13:14

By means of the final beast pictured by fallen anointed ones, Satan wars with the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed.  Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10,33; Rev 13:10; Col 2:8.  It is against the “camp of the Holy Ones” captive under the expected obedience to an elder body, subsequently also to a fallen anointed GB.  Rev 20:7-9; 11:5; Jer 23:29; 5:14; Isa 24:6

This is a lot to throw at you, but there is nowhere else to look for fulfillment of prophesy but among God’s own anointed people. Two seeds at enmity with one another.  Gen 3:15
 
In regards to prophecy, Jesus did say many would prophesy in his name in the last days but many would not be rejected.  

To have disregard for those whose lives were ruined by following such cold and calculated failed dates is misleading God’s sheep.  Does he care?  Yes, much more than the Watchtower does.

“I did not send the prophets,
    yet they ran;
I did not speak to them,
    yet they prophesied.
 But if they had stood in my council,
    then they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
and they would have turned them from their evil way,
    and from the evil of their deeds.”  Jer 23:21,22

The scriptures you bring out in rebuttal to my stating that no organization is needed, are concerning the Body of Christ and congregations.  Nothing is said in the scripture that there was an organized and set governing body in Jerusalem or organization.  This is a fabrication of the WT.   Paul and the apostles worked through the blessing and guidance of holy spirit.   Acts 18:5; 19:5; 20

 No group of men told them where to go and what to do unless by a rare unanimous agreement.  Their goal was to work in harmony as a Body in Christ along with all believers.  Centralized hierarchical authority developed after the apostles were gone and to the detriment of the sheep.  This is where Satan fully employed his tactic of prideful lording over another to deviate anointed ones from the Body of Christ.  It is also the establishment of the early Catholic Church.  Have you had a chance to compare the hierarchy found in both the Catholic church and the organization – on paper?

 During a court case, a Watchtower lawyer made the comment, “We are a hierarchical religion structured just like the Catholic Church.  And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish”

Now tell me, doesn’t it seem that Satan surely knows what he’s doing with his use of similar schemes?  His success with the Catholic Church spans centuries, but in this case his ploy against the last of the anointed ones will be short-lived.

In reference to idol worship, God explained in detail how the temple was to be built. You say, “ People admired, prayed and bowed down to the temple on a daily basis.which was full of images.”

Those particular images you speak of did not detract from salvation acknowledged coming from God.  The organization, on the other hand, IS salvation to JWs – a confusing mix of salvation stemming from “wood and stone” as well as from God.  This is idolatry, not whether the early temple was decorated in pomegranates. 

"People and ORGANIZATIONS making up the antichrist still OPPOSE Christ and his teachings. They deliberately spread lies and deceptions with the intent of CONFUSING THE IDENTITY of the Father, Jehovah God, and of His Son, Jesus Christ. WT 6/2015 "Who is the Anti-Christ?"

I believe I must have brought out 1 Kings 18 somewhere in this string of conversations, where God’s people “limped on two different opinions”, sacrificing to the work of one’s hands, as well as to God.  The similarity of worship within the organization is uncanny.  By not accepting the Temple in God’s chosen ones, where the early temple was a copy and a shadow of this heavenly one, the organization ridicules God and his arrangement in Christ.  Heb Chapter 8

Again, you mention Matt 28:19 as if the organization is following that command in righteousness.  This couldn’t be farther from truth.  It commands that to earn salvation one must identify itself - bear the mark - of an organization.  This is not observing Christ’s commandments.  Rev 19:20

If you were asked by an elder if you uphold 1914, what would you say?  If you did not become a Witness based upon a timeline then you must not support the GB and their teaching.  

God’s strength is not in numbers, but in Holy Spirit.  Remember Gideon and his chosen 300 men, how the number diminished from 32,000 to a mere handful?  This was to clarify in the minds of Israelites how God works.  It was to instill in them his exceeding power to do his will based on his way and not man’s.  Isa 46:9 

Over the time period that God continually disciplined his people how many died for worshiping idols?  We know it was in the hundreds of thousands – wasn't it a thousand alone for worshiping the golden calf made by Aaron?  And THAT account alone should bring wide eyes to the sheep “worshiping and bowing down” symbolically to an organization professed as representing salvation in the same way that the calf became the path of salvation. 

Only a few would will survive or find the cramped road to life, as Jesus said.  Many seeds are planted but will not take root or grow to maturity.  This can be expected.

Yes, so few of the anointed remnant are to come out of captivity to the Beast, refined and purified, that God says of these symbolic trees,

The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land
    the Lord will destroy, both soul and body,
    and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.
 The remnant of the trees of his forest will be so few
    that a child can write them down.  Isa 10:18,19

 I'm not fully understanding your question.  Most religious organizations have head ones that oversee their flock or church/congregation members and/or responsibilities.  

God and Christ do not expect an anointed Body to obey elders that are not anointed.  You also are stuck on man’s“organization” built to thrive in Satan’s world.  Anointed who remain in Christ have truth written on their hearts, which I have mentioned previously.  Heb 10:16  Holy Spirit would work for the benefit of all if the Body was unified in the manner Christ outlines.  Eph 4:4  But this whole picture of the organization’s denial of the Body of Christ is one of prophesy as I had mentioned earlier. 

Revelation speaks of “two witnesses” a symbolic term alluding to the remnant escaping captivity in the organization who will preach through the power of Holy Spirit – not through any manmade organization.  Rev 11:1-4; Zech 4:11-14  Surely I have brought this out earlier.  Their message is in the same vein as Elijah and Moses, leading the people into righteousness and refinement with Christ directing.  Do you see?  How amazing it is to think that God can accomplish such a feat as to use mere men to proclaim the iniquities of his people; all without the pomp and circumstance of an organization.  Sarcasm aside, because the organization preaches it can’t be done any other way, it shows how dependent it is on its own “mountainlike” power.

 “And I said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?”  Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, “Do you not know what these are?” I said, “No, my lord.” Then he said to me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of hosts.  Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain. And he shall bring forward the top stone amid shouts of ‘Grace, grace to it!’”  Zech 4:4-7

You mentioned that God has appointed Jesus to judge using 1 Cor 15:12.  May I ask then, why would an elder body have the ability to judge another’s spiritual standing before God?  John 5:22

An identical scenario is given in Acts 15

“But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

The WT states, "To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12

“But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”  Acts 15:5
These men refused to accept the new salvation in Christ extended to the Gentiles.  Today, the WT is still stuck in a Pharisee-like mode refusing to accept this same salvation possible only through Christ.

“Remember not the former things,
    nor consider the things of old.
 Behold, I am doing a new thing;
    now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness
    and rivers in the desert.  Isa 43:18,19

With the refusal to accept salvation coming to the Gentiles, Peter stood up and asked,

“Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?  But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

A self-proposed faithful and discreet slave endorses a yoke to be placed on the anointed ones since they are blind in seeing the Temple of God in Christ as God’s “new way”. 

And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

16 “‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
     and I will restore it,
17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord,
    and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
     says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’  Acts 15;12-17

You support an organization that destroys God’s Temple arrangement where it presently lays in ruins. The remnant to come out to Christ’s call, are they who will then symbolically be called by God’s name.  Rom 9:27; Micah 7:18; Rev 7:14; Rev 3:12; Rev 18:4-8

Your last words were, “I do hope you find your way back and forgiveness.” 

I doubt that you will get back to me on this, but how is this comment based on scripture? Truly, it cements my understanding that you also feel an organization can bring one to salvation, even if you do not support the fluctuating timeline it is based on.  If I worship the Father and uphold his Son in truth, where is forgiveness needed for doing this?
The Last Harlot and Her Beast:  http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/12/here-is-earlier-post-with-updates.html

 

 

 

In light of Gianis' comment, would the spiritual food being served now be from God…or Satan?   I do believe Jesus.Defender nailed it:

“Conclusion: False prophecies lead us to conclude that the Watchtower is receiving its information from demons, rather than from God.”

Are these anointed leaders who have consistently desired to set dates of Christ's arrival hearing what the spirit says?

“ That, however, is not the way of life you learned  when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.  You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;  to be made new in the attitude of your minds;  and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.”  Eph 4:20-25

There are no excuses for the leaders of the Watchtower.  They have mislead thousands of lives who have hung on to every changing doctrine coming through their scheming mouth.

“Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. “  Eph 4:14-16

It's seems hard to believe that such beauty and rhythm in the organization could be anything other than blessed by God, even though all know each prophesy has failed!   Who is able to blind us from the TRUTH that is Christ, but the Lord of the darkness?
"Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.  Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God.  On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God.  And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.  The god of the age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.  For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ." 2 Cor 4:1-6
....and not through any organization.  The organization preaches of itself and its glory, with the "faithful and discreet slave" preaching of itself as well.  
 



 

Jesus’ own name, which we know as “YHWH is Salvation”.
 Jesus name is also Immanuel, "God with us"

The New Testament always lifts up Jesus Christ’s name, not Jehovah’s name. Why?

Because Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on earth. Christ is 100% God and 100% man.

Q1: In whose name should we meet together?

‘Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’ (Matthew 18:20)
Q2: Demons were cast out by the authority of whose name?
‘Paul.....said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.’ (Acts 16:18)

Q3: In whose name should we preach repentance and forgiveness of sins?

‘And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. And ye are witnesses of these things.’ (Luke 24:47,48)
Q4: In whose name are we to believe and receive forgiveness of sins?

‘....through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’ (Acts 10:43, John 1:12)
Q5: By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation? Acts 4:10,12 says:
‘by the name of Jesus Christ ... Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’
Q6: In whose name should we pray? John 16:23,24; 14:13,14; 15:16 says:
‘Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.’
Q7: In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent?

‘But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name......’ (John 14:26)
Q8: In whose name and authority did the disciples heal the sick?
‘His name through faith in his name hath made this man strong’ (Acts 3:16; 4:30)
Q9: Whose name did Paul say that we are to call upon?
‘ all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.’ (I Cor 1:2)

Q10: Whose name is above every name?
‘God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name .... that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.’(Phil 2:9-11)

Paul’s quote about Christ is from Isaiah 45:22-24 where every knee will bow to Jehovah. What is true about Jehovah, is also true of Christ, the Lord of all mankind

Q11: According to Acts 1:8, of whom are we to be witnesses?
‘Ye shall be witnesses unto me (Jesus)’
Q12: In whose name were believers baptized?
‘they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus’. (Acts 8:16; 2:38)

Q13: In whose name were believers designated?
‘the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch’. (Acts 11:26)
Q14: In whose name did the apostles speak?
‘Commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus’ Acts 4:17,18
Q15: In whose name did early Christians suffer? Acts 15:26 says:
‘Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ ‘rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name’Acts 5:41;9:16
Q16: Whose name was Paul to carry?

‘Lord said: He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’ (Acts 9:15)

Q17: In whose name did Paul deliver a man to Satan?
‘In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...to deliver such an one to Satan.’ I Cor 5:4,5
Q18: In whose name did the apostles teach? Acts 5:28; 8:12 says:

‘Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?’

Again, all your references are about the Septuagint, which is the OT not the NT. So until you can produce evidence that supports your theory of the new being in the NT your argument is a strawman.

The point is, Jehovahs Witnesses cannot PROVE that Gods' name was removed.

"They"?  
This is a large forum / social media the same way Facebook or Twitter are forums / social media. Would you expect Facebook to not "allow me to post"?
Read the site guidelines.

good questions. I have one to add:
If God's name was removed and MAN had to put it back in, then this is saying that God cannot preserve His own word without the help of MAN. So is this what JW's actually believe, that God is powerless to preserve His own word without the help of men?

Why yes I do.  So you don't know if you are anointed and you don't know who it is your even praying to.Tacking on Jesus name at the end of your prayer isn't speaking to Him as you suggest. 
 
The helper is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus. 
John 14:16&17
" 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."
Jesus is our mediator as the Bible teaches us, just as you quoted 1 Timothy 2:5, but the watchtower says otherwise to its followers. You do know this, right? If you are not of the 144k, then Jesus is NOT your mediator according to the society. 
 

I agree Shiwii, and knowing that the scriptures give credence to our praying to Jesus, we can then freely give him that honor, as well as worship, that he deserves. I believe by withdrawing ourselves from this privilege to pray to not only the Father, but his Son also, we cannot truly comprehend the glory and honor of the Anointed One.
"All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."  1 John 1:3-5

We all must honor the Son just as we honor the Father.