11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"

John 2:19,21 "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "But he spake of the temple of his body"

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"  

Romans 8:9-11 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. ¹⁰ But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life NIV-28127d" data-link='[<a data-cke-saved-href="NIV-28127d" href="NIV-28127d" title="See footnote d">d</a>]' style="font-size:0.625em; vertical-align:top">[d] because of righteousness. ¹¹ And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because ofNIV-28128e" data-link='[<a data-cke-saved-href="NIV-28128e" href="NIV-28128e" title="See footnote e">e</a>]' style="font-size:0.625em; vertical-align:top">[e] his Spirit who lives in you.

I don't know what your point is here. First, get rid of the NIV and ignore footnotes as they are just somebodys' opinion.

Yes, the Holy Spirit raised Jesus. So did God the father and Jesus.

"But he spake of the temple of his body"

The greek word here means a LITERAL, PHYSICAL Body.

The bottom line is the Bible CLEARLY showing that the triune God raised Jesus.

Quote

I am not here to support dualism or trialism or whatever is religious theology about trinity and so. I am going to look at text itself and to possibilities they offer. 

 

Oh, i think all of us are biased to some degree.

But yes. What does the text say is the question.

Quote

 

 

1) when Jesus said  Father is greater than I, we can take in context place and moment. Jesus, as His son, but also as son of his human mother, speaking from position of body and blood, a human on Earth. As perfect human individual in the body, he was also more than mere perfect human. He was only begotten Son, Firstborn of all. As perfect human, similar to Adam, because he represented Adam, he was correctly made statement how his Father is greater. Not only in aspects of his human condition at that moment, but also in regard spiritual position, Father - Son position.

 

Again, In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

‘In view of greater (meaning higher in position) and better (meaning higher in nature), is it not clear that in John 14:28 Jesus is speaking of the Father’s temporary higher position and not his higher nature than Jesus?

QUESTION: How did Christ make Himself of no reputation when He became a man? (Phil. 2:6-9)

1. He veiled His preincarnate glory in order to dwell among men, but never surrendered His deity or divine glory. On the Mount Transfiguration He allowed His glory to shine briefly. If Christ had not veiled His glory, mankind would not have been able to look at
Him. When John saw His glory on Patmos he said, ‘I fell at His feet as dead’. (Rev. 1:17).
2. He submitted to a voluntary non use of some of His divine attributes (on some occasions) in order to achieve His objectives. He never surrendered His attributes, but He did voluntarily cease using some of them on earth. Jesus showed His divine attributes of:
i) omniscience (‘He knew all men’ John 2:24; 16:30;‘Lord thou knowest all things.’ 21:17
ii) omnipresence (John 3:13 ‘the Son of man which is in heaven’).
As God He was everywhere at once, but as man He chose to walk there.
iii) omnipotence (Matthew 28:18 ‘all power is given unto me’.)

3. He condescended to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.

Conclusion: ‘The Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28) said Jesus from the vantage point of His incarnation as a man. This verse relates to Christ’s voluntary subordination to the Father to accomplish His work on earth.‘Greater than’ refers to His greater position not His nature.
 

Quote

 

2) in speaking about Temple i would not use this verse to prove who resurrected who, or who are in position to do such act. In verse is clearly said who have power and ability to raise Temple in the 3 days. Jesus made undoubted claim how HE is individual who will going to do this if somebody destroy Temple (literal or spiritual Temple, it is not matter)

 

Yes, it DOES matter. the word can ONLY mean a literal, physical BODY

This verse certainly DOES say that Jesus said He would raise HIMSELF UP after 3 days of being dead.

So, was Jesus lying?

Quote

 

If Jesus is not only copy or clone of perfect Adam but much, much more, i not see obstacle to take in possibility how most powerful person in Universe, after Father, is able to made resurrection of human body. Because Jesus was in fact spirit in human body. His life was originated from spiritual place.    

 

Yes, God the father DID raise Jesus. But here Jesus says that HE HIMSELF will do it. Was Jesus lying?

‘I will raise it up . . . he spake of the temple of his body.’ - John 2:19-21
‘Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up (v.19). But he spake of the temple of his body.’ (v.21)

Jesus here promised that He Himself would raise up His own body after three days. Notice how Jesus uses the word ‘body’ meaning a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection.

Quote

 

 

 

3) Spirit of God and Spirit of Jesus is interesting terminology. And both are powerful for same task - resurrection. 

 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”  - John 11

This two Spirits are so close and connected that it is understandable why Jesus said:

I and the Father are one, the same. .... Father is in me, and I in the Father. - John 10 ... I am the Life - John 14

 

Just some verses for further research. I am not stating anything.

 

 

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I knew you were not worth talking to  

Oh and by the way I am NOT a JW.  So from the beginning you were wrong. 

Ah, so you cannot address any of the BIBLE verses i gave?

So you are now running away.

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Probably a subject not worth answering on.

Those with spiritual wisdom know the Almighty God is greater than Jesus Christ. 

Wrong. Only those indoctrinated by men or organisations.

If you had READ the article, which i know as a JW you are not allowed to, Jesus IS referred to as Almighty God.

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Jesus said so many times that : "the Father is greater than I am"  and such as : "I do nothing of my own initiative but only that of the Father"  And Jesus said he was sent forth by God. 

When did He say this? Oh, WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH where He humbled Himself.

In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)
 

And yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus had a God in heaven. Would you expect Jesus to be an atheist?

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

As  for the Holy Spirit, we know it is God's 'active force', not a spirit being. 

Wrong. 

The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.

An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. Your claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.

The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 

The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)

The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29

People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):

‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).

The Holy Spirit considers Himself a person, not a personification.

I know the standard watchtower reasoning is that they say that the Holy Spirit is an ‘active force’ ibecause the Greek word for ‘spirit’ (pneuma) is neuter.

But, to any serious student of the Bible, this is faulty reasoning, because 1)the gender of a word relates to the grammatical form of the word, not to its sex or physical gender. Because a word is grammatically neuter does not mean that the object is an ‘it’ or of neuter sex. (Source: Elements of NT Greek, J W Wenham, 1979, p.8).

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

If Jesus was God then who resurrected him when he was killed ?

A brilliant question, my friend.

Let's see what the Bible says.

God the father. Acts 10:40 "τοῦτον ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι" ) "Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly"

Jesus. John 2:19,21 "ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐν τρισὶν ἡμέραις ἐγερῶ αὐτόν", "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν περὶ τοῦ ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ", "But he spake of the temple of his body"

The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 "εἰ δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἐγείραντος Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν ὁ ἐγείρας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῳοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν διὰ τὸ ἐνοικοῦν αὐτοῦ Πνεῦμα ἐν ὑμῖν", "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

And who was it that spoke from heaven saying "This is my Son whom I approve " 

(Sorry quotes are not perfect but close enough to give meaning). 

No need to be sorry, i am enjoying this polite and friendly discussion. Thank you.

Yes, the quotes you use are all of when Jesus WAS ON EARTH.

It was Jehovah the father speaking to Jehovah the son.

Remember that Jesus condescended Himself to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.
 

If you wish to talk about other standard passages the watchtower uses like John 20:28, John 20:17, John 17:3, I Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1, etc. i would be more than happy to have a friendly, polite non-confrontational discussion.

I think most of your above points, i have done short videos on.

Blessings, my friend.

Answering Jehovah's Witnesses Objections. Isaiah 9:6 - Is Jesus ‘a Mighty God’ or ‘Jehovah God’?

John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’

The Watchtower says that, because the Father is called ‘the only true God’, then Jesus cannot be the true God.

Ask: The context is Jesus as a man, praying the great high priestly prayer to the Father, and as such it was proper for the man Christ Jesus to call the Father ‘the only true God’.

Christ would not have said this if it was spoken from the viewpoint of His deity.

Ask: Since Jesus being called our only Lord (Jude 4 NWT) does not exclude the Father (Matthew 11:25) and the Holy Spirit from being called Lord, why must the Father being called ‘the only true God’ exclude the Son and Holy Spirit from being called God?

Ask: According to John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? (One).

Do you agree that whatever is not true is false?

If there is only one true God, all other gods must be false gods.

In John 1:1 NWT says that Jesus is a god, right? Is Jesus a true God or a false god?

He cannot be a false god, can He, since that would mean John was guilty of falsely honouring Jesus as a god. Therefore Jesus must be a true God.

But Jehovah is the only true God. Therefore Jesus must be Jehovah.

Reprinted with permission from Pastor Keith Piper.   http://www.keithpiper.org/

Dean. www.calvarystudy.info

http://calvary-study.blogspot.com/

2 hours ago, Anna said:

The Governing Body is not some infallible authority over us. Jesus and Jehovah do not give them direct revelations of what they should do or say.

Yes, they are your infallible authority over you.

And yes, "Jehovah" DOES speak through the watchtower.

"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62

"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127

"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

41 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would think intelligent people would consider the simplicity of a visual badge that sometimes companies use to identify such conventioneers to automatically include a discount on their bill rather than have to go through the trouble of having that person, prove it. How so! Oh! Intelligence! The freedom! To be or not to be, that is the question

What ARE you going on about?

So, you get "discounts" when you wear your organisation ( the watchtower ) logo?

red herrings, much?

On 7/22/2019 at 7:07 AM, Anna said:

As Srecko mentions, it is a recommendation (not a MUST) Soooo.....where's the problem?

Can you point me to watchtower literature on this please?

Also, are those that chose NOT to wear their logo reported?

1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

@Jesus.defender Not really. We are worshippers of Jehovah God. And we do what his son Jesus had commanded us to do, to preach the good news and to make discples. We also apply what qualities that Jesus expresses.

 

For a defender if Jesus. Last I checked Jesus doesn't attack his fellow man, let alone a random stranger. 

Really?

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!"

He called people the sons of satan, liars, hypocrites and told them they were going to hell.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:24 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

First creation was Jesus in heaven and firstborn as a man on earth.

Wrong. The watchtower has LIED to you.

Jesus created ALL things.

the watchtower inserted the word "other" just before the word "things".

But, the original does NOT say that!

6ὅτι (because) ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἐκτίσθη (were created) τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) ἐν (in) τοῖς (the) οὐρανοῖς (heavens) καὶ (and) ἐπὶ (upon) τῆς (the) γῆς (earth), τὰ (the) ὁρατὰ (visible) καὶ (and) τὰ (the) ἀόρατα (invisible), εἴτε (whether) θρόνοι (thrones) εἴτε (or) κυριότητες (dominions) εἴτε (or) ἀρχαὶ (rulers) εἴτε (or) ἐξουσίαι (authorities); τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) δι’ (through) αὐτοῦ (Him) καὶ (and) εἰς (unto) αὐτὸν (Him) ἔκτισται (have been created).

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first born;

You obviously did NOT read my post.

what you SHOULD of said was "Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first created"

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

same with David, Jehovah gave him right of first born in relation to kingship. Jesus is therefore the greater David. Jehovah is developing his purpose since the time of the first rebellion in the Garden of Eden, so all his sayings reflected that he was developing for the future saving of the human race.

Jesus is greated than david because Jesus CREATED david!

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

 

(Psalm 89:27) And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

 

4 hours ago, derek1956 said:

I believe we are witnesses of Jehovah 24/7 if there is a request to wear badges at a meal in a hotel it is a witness to everyone who is staying at the hotel also it reminds us we are not on holiday we are there because Jehovah invited us to be at His table for the spiritual food that we need at this time, you don`t have to wear your badge if you don`t want to give a witness and say this is how we are when we come to Jehovah`s table,  it may open the way for someone to give you the experience that you only hear about from others. If you moan about a small thing like the wearing of a badge at dinner at the hotel where you`re staying, then what are you going to do when we are instructed to do/go something that is not practical in our eyes,  just not do it, Small things we comply with will give us the determination to do a bigger life saving thing in the future. Please don`t squabble or moan about the small things LOOK at the bigger picture keep your minds on what Jehovah will bring

No, you are witnesses of the watchtower.

7 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

What if you are ordered to do some other crazy thing like.... never use a credit card?

 

Really? You answer a question with another question?

Why should the watchtower organization even tell you what to do in your own time?!

Jesus NEVER instituted an organisation or theocratic kingdom on earth

16 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Baptisms?

 

You know what i mean.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

I heard the wt baptizes people into the name of the "organisation"

On 7/2/2019 at 7:09 AM, Anna said:

The good thing is, by the time one gets baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses one should have all those "own opinions on scripture" cleared up, otherwise one wouldn't get baptized as one of JW since one of the requirements is to agree with all 100 questions asked in the "organized book". 

What name does the WT use for their baptisms?

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It's a matter of general credibility .... someone that is ALWAYS wrong about such things gets the credibility they deserve from rational people, and faith in their PRESUMABLY good intentions by others.

Yes. And the watchtower has a history on being wrong on MANY topics.

ie: Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?

Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
No...Revelation book, page 273.
 

6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page)

6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)

6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition)

6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
 

On 5/16/2016 at 5:36 PM, Queen Esther said:

Hahahahahahaa... don't think, JW are dumb...  I never allow anyone to cut my own thinking ! ONLY Jehovah❤️ But YOU are playing here like a Bible actor, mixing old Bible times with some new times, that cant work how you want it !  Fight for Jesus, but wthout Jehovah, you NEVER will reach the goal for everlasting life, sorry ;-(  Good night for now !

Then you are NOT a Jehovah's Witness.

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
 

"Fight for Jesus"

That IS what i am doing right now, my friend.

"but wthout Jehovah, you NEVER will reach the goal for everlasting life, sorry ;-("

You are right. _I_ can do NOTHING. JESUS has already done it and promised me eternal, everlasting life.

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins." ( DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS THE I AM? )

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( HAVE YOU BEEN BORN AGAIN? )

On 6/25/2019 at 2:02 AM, Melinda Mills said:

(Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

 

Really? You could not even address the quotes i gave?

This is your OWN material. it is NOT "apostate".

On 6/25/2019 at 3:57 AM, John Houston said:

But where one was the first one born, was it correctly used? As when Jesus was called firstborn by his mother? Was he not the very first child born to her? And was not Jesus the first child born to God, among all the other sons in heaven, of all creation he was the first, because before anything came into existence it came by the will of God, not the Son. There has to be a Father. A Father makes a Son, not the other way around. Like the egg before the chicken? We know the chicken came first, because God with his Son created life first, not the egg, the animal,right? So his " ONLY BEGOTTEN " the one formed by his hands only, came first. And as the scriptures state all other life came through Jesus. So simple, common sense. One enitity with no beginning with a Son who was his only begotten.

Address the verses i gave. Not just give your opinion.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:24 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

1:15 ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως. The ἐν ᾧ (“in whom”) of 1:14 switched the focus from God (ὅς, 1:13) to Christ and thus made it possible to attach the lengthy hymnic description of Christ (running to six verses) by means of a further simple ὅς (“who”). The language used is unlike other traditional formulaic summaries of the gospel introduced elsewhere by the same relative pronoun (such as Rom. 3:25; 4:25; 8:34), which focus on the cross and resurrection of Christ. But the same phrase (“who is the image of God”) is used in 2 Cor. 4:4.

Show me the source for this, please. which Bible, etc?

 First creation was Jesus in heaven and firstborn as a man on earth."

That is NOT what the Bible teaches. You are twisting things to suit your theology.

Let me guess, the WATCHTOWER taught you this.

If Jesus created ALL things, then He cant have been created. The word "other" which the watchtower deceitfully inserts into your translation is NOT found anywhere in the original.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first born; same with David, Jehovah gave him right of first born in relation to kingship. Jesus is therefore the greater David. Jehovah is developing his purpose since the time of the first rebellion in the Garden of Eden, so all his sayings reflected that he was developing for the future saving of the human race.

(Psalm 89:27) And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

 

Jacob was not first CREATED

True. How can we trust the current "light" they have if it is going to "get brighter" or get replaced by "new light" maybe tomorrow?

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
 

"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62

"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127

"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327

14 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

Thats so simple...  You also calling  FATHER and NOT the right name of your dad !! 

ITS NOT A LIE.....

 

Address the scripture verses i gave. You cannot.

@Space Merchant