Jesus.defender

The point is, my friend, if the watchtower were WRONG in the past, how do we know they are not wrong now?
 
its not a case of "new light". The light is either on or off!
 
Blessings.
 
www.calvarystudy.info

Wrong. Only those indoctrinated by men or organisations.
If you had READ the article, which i know as a JW you are not allowed to, Jesus IS referred to as Almighty God.
 
When did He say this? Oh, WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH where He humbled Himself.
In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.
Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 
i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)
 
And yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus had a God in heaven. Would you expect Jesus to be an atheist?
Wrong. 
The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.
The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.
An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. Your claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.
The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 
The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)
The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29
People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.
The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):
‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).
The Holy Spirit considers Himself a person, not a personification.
I know the standard watchtower reasoning is that they say that the Holy Spirit is an ‘active force’ ibecause the Greek word for ‘spirit’ (pneuma) is neuter.
But, to any serious student of the Bible, this is faulty reasoning, because 1)the gender of a word relates to the grammatical form of the word, not to its sex or physical gender. Because a word is grammatically neuter does not mean that the object is an ‘it’ or of neuter sex. (Source: Elements of NT Greek, J W Wenham, 1979, p.8).
A brilliant question, my friend.
Let's see what the Bible says.
God the father. Acts 10:40 "τοῦτον ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι" ) "Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly"

Jesus. John 2:19,21 "ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐν τρισὶν ἡμέραις ἐγερῶ αὐτόν", "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν περὶ τοῦ ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ", "But he spake of the temple of his body"

The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 "εἰ δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἐγείραντος Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν ὁ ἐγείρας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῳοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν διὰ τὸ ἐνοικοῦν αὐτοῦ Πνεῦμα ἐν ὑμῖν", "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"

 
No need to be sorry, i am enjoying this polite and friendly discussion. Thank you.
Yes, the quotes you use are all of when Jesus WAS ON EARTH.
It was Jehovah the father speaking to Jehovah the son.
Remember that Jesus condescended Himself to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.
 
If you wish to talk about other standard passages the watchtower uses like John 20:28, John 20:17, John 17:3, I Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1, etc. i would be more than happy to have a friendly, polite non-confrontational discussion.
I think most of your above points, i have done short videos on.
 
Blessings, my friend.

John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’
The Watchtower says that, because the Father is called ‘the only true God’, then Jesus cannot be the true God.
Ask: The context is Jesus as a man, praying the great high priestly prayer to the Father, and as such it was proper for the man Christ Jesus to call the Father ‘the only true God’.
Christ would not have said this if it was spoken from the viewpoint of His deity.
Ask: Since Jesus being called our only Lord (Jude 4 NWT) does not exclude the Father (Matthew 11:25) and the Holy Spirit from being called Lord, why must the Father being called ‘the only true God’ exclude the Son and Holy Spirit from being called God?
Ask: According to John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? (One).
Do you agree that whatever is not true is false?
If there is only one true God, all other gods must be false gods.
In John 1:1 NWT says that Jesus is a god, right? Is Jesus a true God or a false god?
He cannot be a false god, can He, since that would mean John was guilty of falsely honouring Jesus as a god. Therefore Jesus must be a true God.
But Jehovah is the only true God. Therefore Jesus must be Jehovah.

Reprinted with permission from Pastor Keith Piper.   http://www.keithpiper.org/
Dean. www.calvarystudy.info
http://calvary-study.blogspot.com/

Wrong. The watchtower has LIED to you.
Jesus created ALL things.
the watchtower inserted the word "other" just before the word "things".
But, the original does NOT say that!
6ὅτι (because) ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἐκτίσθη (were created) τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) ἐν (in) τοῖς (the) οὐρανοῖς (heavens) καὶ (and) ἐπὶ (upon) τῆς (the) γῆς (earth), τὰ (the) ὁρατὰ (visible) καὶ (and) τὰ (the) ἀόρατα (invisible), εἴτε (whether) θρόνοι (thrones) εἴτε (or) κυριότητες (dominions) εἴτε (or) ἀρχαὶ (rulers) εἴτε (or) ἐξουσίαι (authorities); τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) δι’ (through) αὐτοῦ (Him) καὶ (and) εἰς (unto) αὐτὸν (Him) ἔκτισται (have been created).

You obviously did NOT read my post.
what you SHOULD of said was "Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first created"
Jesus is greated than david because Jesus CREATED david!
 

Address the verses i gave. Not just give your opinion.

Show me the source for this, please. which Bible, etc?
 
 First creation was Jesus in heaven and firstborn as a man on earth."
That is NOT what the Bible teaches. You are twisting things to suit your theology.
Let me guess, the WATCHTOWER taught you this.
If Jesus created ALL things, then He cant have been created. The word "other" which the watchtower deceitfully inserts into your translation is NOT found anywhere in the original.

A cult would say things like:
 
"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
 
"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)
 
“Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.” Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.94
 
“Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” Watchtower Study Edition 2013 Jan 15 p.16
 
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
 
They will make FALSE prophecies:
 
"In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." SOURCE: "The Time is at Hand; 1889. ( note: The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915." )
 
"...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," SOURCE: The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101.
 
"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
 
 

Yes, they are your infallible authority over you.
And yes, "Jehovah" DOES speak through the watchtower.
"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189
"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127
"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

 

What ARE you going on about?
So, you get "discounts" when you wear your organisation ( the watchtower ) logo?
 
red herrings, much?

Firstborn or First created?
Colossians 1:15 - ‘the firstborn (Greek: prototokos 4416) of every creature’.
JWs use this verse to teach that Jesus was created at a point in time as an angel.
They ignore the evidence and insist that the word ‘firstborn’ here means ‘first created’, ‘the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons’.
The Bible teaching:
1) ‘Firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos) does NOT mean ‘first-created’ (Greek: protoktisis). First-created (Protoktisis) is never used of Christ in New Testament.
Question:Where is it used of Jesus in New Testament?
Question: Why didn’t Paul use the term ‘first-created’ (protoktisis) in Colossians 1:15 if he meant that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?
2) Ask: What does ‘firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos 4416) mean?
Answer: ‘Pre-eminent, Ruler, Sovereign, First in rank’.
It is used in other passages which refer to Christ:
i. Romans 8:29 ‘that he might be the firstborn among many brethren’. ‘Prototokos’ presents Christ as the pre-eminent member of the group (S. Zodhiates NT, p 1249).
ii. Colossians 1:15. ‘The firstborn of every creature’ Christ is the one pre-eminent and supreme ruler over all creation (S Zodhiates NT, p 1250). v.16 ‘By him were all things created’ means that Christ Himself is not part of Creation (John 1:3).
iii. Colossians 1:18 ‘He (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the
beginning (arche), the firstborn (prototokos=Ruler) from the dead; that in all
things he might have the pre-eminence (proteuon)’.
‘Arche’ means ‘first cause’ (Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:18) and is parallel to
‘prototokos’ in Colossians 1:15,18, both asserting Christ’s pre-eminence.
Note: ‘Proteuon’ (pre-eminence) present tense is used only in Colossians 1:18 and indicates not an acquired right to be ruler and pre-eminent, but an inherent right by virtue of His nature. Christ, being the Creator, deserves to have pre-eminence.
iv. Hebrews 1:6 ‘And again, when he bringeth the firstbegotten(prototokos=Ruler) into the world, he saith ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him’.
Alternately, translate this as ‘And when He again brings the firstborn into the
world’, refers to Christ’s second coming when Christ as King will be worshipped
by the angels. Christ is exalted even above all the angels.
v. Revelation 1:5 ‘And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the
firstbegotten (prototokos=Ruler) of the dead, and the prince (arche = chief) of the kings of the earth.’ Here ‘prototokos’ means that Christ is first of those to be
resurrected, and prince (arche) means ruler of earth’s kings at His second coming.
Note: JWs compare Christ as the firstborn of all creation with the firstborn son of Pharaoh. This is nonsensical, because it is true that Pharaoh parented his son, but it is not true that ‘all creation’ parented Jesus.
3) We must understand what the original speaker or writer intended by the words which he used. The ancient Hebrews used the term ‘firstborn son’ when referring to the preeminent son, regardless of whether or not he was the first son born to the parents. The son with the title ‘firstborn’ had the right of primogeniture which meant that:
i) He acquired a special blessing (Genesis 27);
ii) He became heir of a double share of the father’s wealth (Deuteronomy 21:17);
iii) He replaced his father as the family head. He had authority over his brothers;
iv) He represented the father in civil and religious matters;
v) He had some holiness because through him flowed the common blood of the tribe (Genesis 49:3; Deuteronomy 21:17).
Key: The term ‘firstborn’ does not refer to the first one born, but to the pre-eminent one in the family. Consider these examples where the son with the title ‘firstborn’ was not born first:
(1) David was the last born son of Jesse, yet Psalm 89:27 says of him: ‘Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth’. (v.20 onwards refers to David).
(2) Ephraim was the second born son of Joseph: ‘The name of the second called he Ephraim.’ (Genesis 41:50-52). Yet ‘Ephraim is my firstborn’ (Jeremiah 31:9). This was because of his pre-eminent position. Manasseh was born first to Joseph, but Ephraim became the firstborn because of his pre-eminence.
(3) Jacob (Israel) was the second son born to Isaac, after Esau, yet God says of Israel, ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22). Esau says of himself, ‘I am Esau thy firstborn’. (Genesis 27:19). Esau means that he was born first and should have the birthright. God means that Israel, though born second, took the pre-eminent position. Hence, in this sense Christ is firstborn because of His pre-eminence, not because He was created first as JWs think.
(4) Solomon was born to David later, and the line of the kings came through Solomon,yet Amnon was born first (I Chronicles 3:2).
(5) Isaac was born 13 years after Ishmael, yet Isaac took the pre-eminent position in the family.(Genesis 17:19).
(6) Judah was the fourth son born to Jacob (Genesis 29:35), yet Judah received the dominion and line of Christ, even though Reuben being born first forfeited his right of primogeniture due to fornication (Genesis 49:3,4)
4) Firstborn can be rendered metaphorically, not meaning born first. Examples include:
i) Job 18:13 ‘the firstborn of death shall devour his strength’. As the firstborn son held the chief place, so Job refers to the chiefest (most deadly) disease that death possessed;
ii) Isaiah 14:30 ‘The firstborn of the poor shall feed’, means the poorest of the poor.
Conclusion: Firstborn does not mean born first or created first. Rather, it is a title of first rank, or pre-eminent position. Paul calls Christ the firstborn (prototokos = Ruler).
Ask: What does Psalm 89:27 mean by calling David firstborn, when he was the last born son?
Ask: Why didn’t Paul use ‘first created’ (protoktisis) of Christ in Colossians 1:15 if he intended to teach that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?

@Space Merchant 

Yes, it is difficult to comprehend, isn't it?
You need to study Biblical Greek and Hebrew. I know the watchtower does NOT endorse this and does NOT allow independent thinking.
 
also check out this verse that appears in the original language:  "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.". "En arkhêi ên ho lógos, kaì ho lógos ên pròs tòn theón, kaì theòs ên ho lógos."
 
Check out also the word "ὑπόστασις " 

As usual, more LIES from you with ZERO proof.
the watchtower has LIED to you

Good point. I haven't thought of it that way.
 

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
 

You know what i mean.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I heard the wt baptizes people into the name of the "organisation"

What name does the WT use for their baptisms?

Yes. And the watchtower has a history on being wrong on MANY topics.
ie: Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?
Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
No...Revelation book, page 273.
 
6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
 

You know what i mean.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I heard the wt baptizes people into the name of the "organisation"

Yes. And the watchtower has a history on being wrong on MANY topics.
ie: Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?
Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
No...Revelation book, page 273.
 
6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
 

You know what i mean.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I heard the wt baptizes people into the name of the "organisation"

Power, authority, respect, rooms full of free money to spend any way they desire, living a very pleasant lifestyle in beautiful surroundings, being able to think of themselves as latter day Apostles, and the mortification of being caught.
Fortunately, there is nobody on Earth that can fire them ... AND THEY KNOW IT!

Are you ashamed of what the watchtower has said?