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Everything posted by HollyW

  1. Do you know of any JWs in Malawi who did view the matter [of buying a political card] as simply complying with what "Caesar” requires, since no acts or expressions of worship are involved? This is information I was not aware of. What is your source?
  2. Perhaps the same view expressed in a letter sent to Chilean JWs regarding flying the national flag at Kingdom Halls could have been sent to Malawi JWs facing more than just fines for non-compliance? This is from that letter: Some may view the matter as simply complying with what "Caesar” requires, since no acts or expressions of worship are involved. (Matthew 22:21; Romans 13:7)
  3. I can hardly believe a JW would say this about child abuse, not to mention using as an example partaking of Jesus' body and blood, a command the majority of JWs disobey anyway: "Take eat, this is my body. Drink...this is my blood of the covenant." Your point being that a law requiring child abuse be reported to law enforcement goes against Jehovah's standards that there has to be two witnesses (other than the victim and the abuser). Talk about straining at a gnat.
  4. We should be able to discuss these things honestly and not pretend JWs don't go by what the WTS tells them they can and can't do. However, if that seems bothersome to you, ok.
  5. Thank you, Librarian. From the WTS letter to the Chilean elders, it seems similar to their view of going to a 4th of July celebration here in the US...it's okay for JWs to attend and join in watching the fireworks, etc, as long as they aren't having feelings of patriotism.
  6. No, it isn't compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate but it is compulsory to have a license plate on your car. It's compulsory to display the Chilean flag at the Kingdom Hall on Sept 18-19 or pay a fine. It was compulsory to have a political card in Malawi or be brutalized. Even in countries where voting is not compulsory, JWs can go to the polls and even into the polling booth in order to avoid penalties and/or physical harm. Were Malawi JWs asked to renounce their faith in Jehovah when they bought a political card? No, so the release document in the Nazi camps is not the same thing as buying a political card in Malawi. If JWs can give all the appearances of taking part in political elections in order to avoid harm, why would they not be allowed to buy a political card for the same reason? There's no worshipful ritual involved in it. And, really, as far as JWs voting, they would have to have registered to vote to even be able to go into a polling booth. So there's that to consider as well.
  7. Well, why? You did read the reasons a JW is allowed to do the one, right? [w99 11/1 QFR p.28-29] What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision.
  8. There are ALWAYS two witnesses to every case of child abuse: the victim and the abuser. And while JWs require more witnesses than that in order to do anything to the abuser, the law does not. In the USA, most states and a number of territories require people in certain professions to report child abuse to the proper authorities. In some states and in Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report it to law enforcement. You may want to go to the elders so they can punish the abuser and protect the congregation, but they and you may be required to report it to the proper legal authorities (not WTS Branch office or lawyers) regardless of who witnessed the abuse besides the victim and the abuser.
  9. What's your view, Eoin? Any worshipful ritual going on with either one?
  10. I dunno 'bout that, Eoin. Obviously one isn't involved in what the government puts on your car's license plate, but someone is surely involved in going into a Kingdom Hall and draping a national flag in the window. Makes one wonder how much "worshipful ritual" was required of JWs in Malawi when it came to purchasing a required political card. Not much difference in getting a license for their car.....or pledging an oath to uphold a country's constitution to get a passport.
  11. And you're usually sharper than this. Obviously the WTS is calling it a prayer and it is directed to Jesus from John and JWs are told they should be doing it, too. Can't be much plainer than that. [w07 3/15 p.3] John earnestly prayed: “Come, Lord Jesus.” (Revelation 22:20) Do you "earnestly pray: "Come, Lord Jesus.'"? And *** re chap. 44 p. 319 par. 19 Revelation and You ***19 Thus, with John, we fervently pray: “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” Do you fervently pray, "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."?
  12. Your comparison of offering meat to an idol being the same as displaying a national flag means the Chilean JWs are engaging in false worship. Didn't think you'd want to do that, but there it is.
  13. WTS says John prayed to Jesus and that JWs should also: [w07 3/15 p.3] John earnestly prayed: “Come, Lord Jesus.” (Revelation 22:20) And *** re chap. 44 p. 319 par. 19 Revelation and You ***19 Thus, with John, we fervently pray: “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”
  14. Hmmm....would that be the appropriate comparison? Isn't meat offered to idols a ritual of false worship?
  15. Are Kingdom Halls in Chile being allowed to display the Chilean flag on September 18th in order to avoid a fine?
  16. What JWs went thru in Malawi seems doubly horrendous in view of what the WTS said about being persecuted in some countries for not voting in political elections....circumstances that would make it a conscience matter. Surely having a political card in a country where there's only one political party doesn't require any more participation in politics than a JW showing up at a polling place and even going into the polling booth.
  17. Folks, as you know, what JWs historically and presently do or don't do regarding war pales in comparison to what the WTS teaches they will do at the end of the thousand years when they all have acquired the same perfection Adam had before he sinned. They are said to have met Jehovah's standards physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually. They have lived in peace and harmony in paradise on earth for a thousand years, some more, some less, and studied new WT publications (Rev. 20:12) published during the thousand years and engaged in a world-wide educational program with those books. And yet they will be persuaded by the devil (in numbers so vast as to be uncountable) to go to war against fellow Jehovah's Witnesses.
  18. The letter to Hitler would have been WW2. The quote I posted is WW1 and they do single out the USA where they say "to the people of this country", and though that's followed by "and of the whole world of mankind", they didn't mention another specific country. But if their prayers were for countries that didn't win the war, one might wonder what country would that be.
  19. If our minds cannot fully comprehend something, is that a sound reason for rejecting it? No, of course not, there are many things that seem a mystery at times to us. For instance, how about Time? We don't reject the idea of time because there are aspects of it that we do not fully comprehend. Or maybe Space. There seems to be no end to it but we don't reject the idea of space. So, too, with the Trinity. Just because you don't fully comprehend that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate persons who are the only true God, that is not a sound reason for rejecting. Consider the opening words of the Bible: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Do JWs consider God in this verse to be only the Father? No, of course not, because they believe the Father created the heavens and the earth through the Son and by the Holy Spirit. IOW "God created the heavens an the earth." In Genesis 1:26 God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..." JWs view God in this verse to be the Father, and he is speaking to the Son, and "our" refers to both the Father and the Son. So does "God" in verse 27 "God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him"....Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all referred to as God.
  20. The winning side, of course. During WWI whose side did your church pray for? "In accordance with the resolution of Congress of April 2nd, and with the proclamation of the president of the United States of May 11, it is suggested that the Lord's people everywhere make May 30th a day of prayer and supplication. ... As says the spirit through the Apostle Paul: "I exhort, therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour." (I Timothy 2:1-3) Let there be praise and thanks-giving to God for the promised glorious outcome of the war, the breaking of the shackles of autocracy, the freeing of the captives (Isaiah 61:1) and the making of the world safe for the common people--blessings all assured by the Word of God to the people of this country and of the whole world of mankind." Watchtower 1918 Jun 1 p.174
  21. Not to get off-topic, but I wanted to point out that JWs are taught that after a thousand years of living in a paradise on earth and becoming perfect in every way by studying new books published by the WTS during those thousand years, at the end of those thousand years a number of JWs so vast as to be uncountable will side with the devil to go to war against fellow JWs----and they are said to have gained the perfection Adam had before he sinned, meeting Jehovah's standards mentally, morally, physically and spiritually. So JWs have no room to talk about imperfect men going to war.
  22. Bruce, you're the one who is running away. I shared scripture with you and you failed to even reason on it. You throw up this really lame argument because you've got nothing else to offer. As I've already stated, a discussion with someone who can't bring himself to reason on the scriptures is pointless. You stick your fingers in your ears and chant your so-familiar-refrain so that you can ignore what the Bible really teaches. I'll be waiting for you to reason on the scripture I posted. Until then, well, getting to know you has been an experience I could have done without.
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