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Greetings to all from one who has not visited here in a while. I hope this winds up in the right heading(!), and I hope the bros. and sisters who visit here more regularly than I do are well and have Jah’s blessings. Something has come up that surprised me, and I know that certain people here might have input. First, a background: for some years now there has been some contentious discussion among certain academics, namely, between Evangelical types and others outside of their perspective on the status of Jesus in his pre-existence. Of course, the Evangelicals with their fourth-century high Christology don’t have it right. For those who don’t know, Bart Ehrman, who certainly has no respect for Jehovah, grew up in the Evangelical fold but left it and embraced agnosticism. He’s basically viewed as an apostate by the Evangelical world, though not in the same way as a worshiper of Jehovah would view an apostate. Since that time, Ehrman has used his knowledge and academic position to attack Evangelicalism frequently. He has a blog where he does this, as well as in his published books. Another academic who regularly tries to rebut Ehrman is Larry Hurtado, a full-fledged Evangelical who runs his own blog. Hurtado recently died after a long struggle with leukemia, so his blog, while still up, has and will have no more new posts. Here is an example of the dialogue regarding Jesus’ pre-existence as an angel:
One thing that has always puzzled me is this: what happened to the spirit creature Michael when Jesus was conceived/born as a human? We are told that Jehovah transferred Michael's life pattern into Jesus in much the same way as God will do for those who are resurrected. This would mean that when Jesus was alive on earth there was no Michael in heaven. As we do not believe that humans have a spirit, in the accepted sense of the word, the question remains, what happened to Michael during Jesus earthly presence?
The Book of Daniel is the angel Gabriel’s witness to Daniel about God’s Kingdom. Gabriel gives details about God’s Kingdom, what that Kingdom will do for mankind, and he witnesses about the coming Messiah and identifies to Daniel who the Ruler of God’s Kingdom would be. “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,” (Daniel 2:44) “You should know and understand that from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·siʹah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks. She will be restored and rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in times of distress. “And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.” (Daniel 9:25-26) The Hebrew word Messiah is translated ‘Christ’ in English. The prophecy mentions “7 weeks, also 62 weeks”—a total of 69 weeks. Therefore, the prophetic 69 weeks amount to 69 units of 7 years each, or a total of 483 years. If we count from 455 B.C.E., a period of 483 years takes us to the year 29 C.E. That was exactly the year when Jesus was baptized and became the Messiah! * (Luke 3:1, 2, 21, 22) The Jews in 29 CE where in expectation of the arrival of the Messiah! “Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?” (Luke 3:15) In the final Chapter of Daniel, Gabriel gives detailed information about the Ruler of God’s kingdom that would mark the End of the Gentile times. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King. *—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14. The prophecy is detailed to Daniel in the following scripture from Gabriel. “During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.” (Daniel 12:1) Yes in 1914, Michael the Great Prince stands up to begin Ruling as King of God’s Kingdom. Michael is the Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Peace, the Angel of Great Counsel who is Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Michael is the one Philippians spoken of has being given the Name. “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake” (Philippians 2:5-8) For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11) “And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne.” (Rev 12:5) “And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” (Rev 12:7-9) Notice what the following verse calls Michael. “I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.” (Rev 12:10-11) “the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) Commanding Call, an Archangel’s Voice and with God’s Trumpet all point to the Word of God, the Lord himself Jesus Christ. “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12:4) Then Gabriel tells Daniel: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.” (Daniel 12:9-10) “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) “For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake.” (2 Corinthians 4:5) “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10) “And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) This is a small synopsis of the scriptures of the glorious good news about the Christ. To gain understanding to keep on living: “Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time, while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.” (1 Peter 5:6-7) For a Free Study of the Bible, click here.