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Memorial of the Death of our Lord Jesus Christ

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Jehovah's Witnesses commemorate Christ's death as a ransom or "propitiatory sacrifice" by observing the Lord's Evening Meal, or Memorial. They celebrate it once per year, noting that it was instituted on the Passover, an annual festival. This is the only celebration the Bible commands Christians to observe.
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Of those who attend the Memorial, a small minority worldwide partake of the unleavened bread and wine. This is because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the majority of the faithful have an earthly hope. Only those who believe they have a heavenly hope, the "remnant" (those still living) of the 144,000 "anointed", partake of the bread and wine. In 2014, the number of persons who partook worldwide was 

    Hello guest!
, whereas the number who attended was 
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.

The Memorial, held after sunset, includes a talk on the meaning of the celebration and the circulation among the audience of 
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 and 
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Jehovah's Witnesses believe the bread symbolizes Jesus Christ's body which he gave on behalf of mankind, and that the wine symbolizes his blood which redeems from sin. They do not believe in transubstantiation or consubstantiation. Because many congregations have no members who claim to be anointed, it is common for no one to partake of the bread and wine.

See also: What is the meaning of the bread and the wine served at the Memorial?

Jehovah’s Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century. The Jewish day begins at sundown and extends until the following sundown. So Jesus died on the same Jewish calendar day that he instituted the Memorial. The beginning of the month of Nisan was the sunset after the new moon nearest the spring equinox became visible in Jerusalem. The Memorial date is 14 days thereafter. (Thus the date for the Memorial may not coincide with that of the Passover kept by modern-day Jews. Why not? The start of their calendar months is set to coincide with the astronomical new moon, not the visible new moon over Jerusalem, which may come 18 to 30 hours later. Also, most Jews today keep the Passover on Nisan 15, not on the 14th as did Jesus in harmony with what was stated in the Mosaic Law.)

Memorial is always held on the first full moon after March 21st. It's always a full moon because Memorial is always held 14 days after the new moon. Hebrew months start on the new moon (the new month). Therefore Nisan 14 is always a full moon (+- 24 hours).

    Hello guest!

 

Why is it observed annually?

 

Talk: The Last Hours of Jesus Christ

Particularly beginning in the 1930’s, prospective members of the “great multitude,” or “great crowd” of other sheep, began to manifest themselves. (Rev. 7:9, 10, KJ; John 10:16) These were at that time referred to as Jonadabs. For the first time, in its issue of February 15, 1938, The Watchtower specifically invited them to be present at the Memorial, saying: “After six p.m. on April 15 let each company of the anointed assemble and celebrate the Memorial, their companions the Jonadabs also being present.” They did attend, not as partakers, but as observers. 

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1 hour ago, Cheeto said:

Nissan 15 falls on April 22 this year. So why was the memorial a month early this year?

I would simply point you to this discussion however it is not a concise answer to your question:

I will ask @JW Insider to see how he would phrase a simple answer to that question.

(Although be prepared for supporting documentation to follow ;)

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I called Headquarters and they wouldn't say why it was in Adar, and not Nissan. I am aware of how they have counted the times for eons. As a witness,  I studied it also. But EVERY sorce I went to showed it was at the incorrect time for the Memorial.  I just want an answer!  Not a refference to another place in the publications that proves again, that it was on the wrong date. 

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@Cheeto

Hi. I'll try to answer your question fairly simply.

SIMPLE ANSWER

The basic reason is a difference in methods for when an extra lunar month needs to be added. In general every lunar calendar must add about 1 extra month every 3 years to match back up to the seasonal, solar calendar. In fact it's actually not 1 out of every 3 (which is the same as 6 out of 18), but it's 7 out of 19. If it were exactly 1 out of 3, you probably wouldn't see much of a problem because it would be easy to always match up to the Jewish calendar. We'd always know exactly when the leap month was going to be added. But a 7 out of 19 pattern could be done several different ways. The first table below, shows only three of a dozen different methods that could be used, and every one of them would be exactly right again after 19 years.

Since 1929, inclusive, we (JWs) have always followed the exact method in the "Christendom" column. (Always produces the same week as Easter.)  Prior to 1929 we (JWs) always used the exact method represented in the "Jewish" column.

The column in "Method 1" is just for comparison, although it's a well-documented method that has been used by many persons who find it simpler to remember a "1 out of 3" pattern for 18 years, and then correct it with an extra in the 19th year. The problem is that the method is too erratic and unnecessarily makes Spring about 5 weeks late in the 19th year. If these "leap months" are spread out more evenly, as in the "Jewish" method, then Spring will start no more than about 17 days early or 17 days late. In fact, the "Christendom" method effectively starts "Nisan 14/15" at the first full moon after the vernal spring equinox, so that the range is no more than 15 days before, or 15 days after.) 

Every range of 19 years in the following table should contain 7 years with 13 lunar months rather than 12.

Year# Method 1 Jewish Christndm Actual Yr
1 12 lun 13 lun 12 lun 1997
2 12 lun 12 lun 13 lun 1998
3 13 lun 12 lun 12 lun 1999
4 12 lun 13 lun 13 lun 2000
5 12 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2001
6 13 lun 13 lun 12 lun 2002
7 12 lun 12 lun 13 lun 2003
8 12 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2004
9 13 lun 13 lun 12 lun 2005
10 12 lun 12 lun 13 lun 2006
11 12 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2007
12 13 lun 13 lun 12 lun 2008
13 12 lun 12 lun 13 lun 2009
14 12 lun 13 lun 12 lun 2010
15 13 lun 12 lun 13 lun 2011
16 12 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2012
17 12 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2013
18 13 lun 13 lun 13 lun 2014
19 13 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2015
20 12 lun 13 lun 12 lun 2016
21 12 lun 12 lun 13 lun 2017
21 13 lun 12 lun 12 lun 2018


 

MORE COMPLICATED ANSWER

As you know, our calendar year is usually 365 days and sometimes 366 days, so that the average is about 365.25 days. So we divide it into months of either 28, 29, 30 or 31 days. So, our average month is therefore about 30.4 days. 

But if you measure each month by the time it takes the moon to cycle through all it's phases, then the average "lunar month" is 29.5 days. That means that if you start each lunar month when you see that first sliver of a "new moon," then it could be about 30 days until the sighting of the next new month, then 29 days the next new month after that, then 30, then 29, etc.

But that means that by the time you go through 12 lunar months, you will have a "year" of only 354 days. (12x29.5=354)  That's about 11 days shorter than a standard solar year. So if you want to stay matched up to the solar seasons (Spring, Summer, Autumn, WInter) you will have to add an extra lunar cycle (i.e., an extra 29 or 30-day month) about every three years. Otherwise, if you keep losing 11 days every year, then in a few years you will find yourself trying to pick summer fruits in the middle of winter, which doesn't work very well in Israel's climate, or almost any climate in the northern hemisphere.

Also, if you work it out more exactly, you will see that you it isn't exactly 1 extra lunar month for every 3 years, but 7 every 19 years. But even if it was always as easy as just 1 out of 3, and the pattern repeated continually, there is still no absolute reason to count every three years from the same starting years. The one out of three method works out to mean that you follow a pattern of -11, -11, +19, (repeating), which will be explained below. But there is no reason that one the pattern could not be chosen as -11, +19, -11, (repeating), or +19, -11, -11 (repeating). It's as if in the following example, you arbitrarily picked 2018 or 2019 as the FIRST YEAR and started repeating the cycle in that year, instead of 2017. 

Assume the current year is correct for when it starts the month of Nisan. (2016)

  • FIRST YEAR: Subtract 11 days to start Nisan next year (2017)
    • 11 days, because 12 lunar months are 354 days and this is 11 days short of 365.
  • SECOND YEAR: Subtract 11 more days to start Nisan the year after that (2018)
    • 11 days short again, same reason.
  • THIRD YEAR: Add 19 days to start Nisan the year after that (2019)
    • 19 days, because 12 lunar months is still -11 (354) but you add a 30-day month (a second Adar) so that this year will be 384 days long.384-365=19; 30 minus 11 equals 19.
  • REPEAT CYCLE for another 3 year cycle: -11, -11, +19.  (Ths can work for up to 18 years before you will need an extra adjustment.)

I made a table of all the Memorial dates since the Watchtower started in 1879 up to the present. The following table includes includes only the years 1997 to 2018. These can be used to check the years that were effectively given a 13th month (second Adar). These are the years when Memorial is about 19 days later in the year than the previous year, rather than about 11 days earlier in the year. I bolded them. Notice that Easter is always the Sunday after our Memorial. Passover is always within a day or two, or within a day or two, plus an entire month.

YEAR MEMORIAL EASTER PASSOVER
1997 3/23/1997 3/30/1997 4/22/1997
1998 4/11/1998 4/12/1998 4/11/1998
1999 4/1/1999 4/4/1999 4/1/1999
2000 4/19/2000 4/23/2000 4/20/2000
2001 4/8/2001 4/15/2001 4/8/2001
2002 3/28/2002 3/31/2002 4/28/2002
2003 4/16/2003 4/20/2003 4/17/2003
2004 4/4/2004 4/11/2004 4/6/2004
2005 3/24/2005 3/27/2005 4/24/2005
2006 4/12/2006 4/16/2006 4/13/2006
2007 4/2/2007 4/8/2007 4/3/2007
2008 3/22/2008 3/23/2008 4/20/2008
2009 4/9/2009 4/12/2009 4/9/2009
2010 3/30/2010 4/4/2010 4/30/2010
2011 4/17/2011 4/24/2011 4/19/2011
2012 4/5/2012 4/8/2012 4/7/2012
2013 3/26/2013 3/31/2013 3/26/2013
2014 4/14/2014 4/20/2014 4/15/2014
2015 4/3/2015 4/5/2015 4/4/2015
2016 3/23/2016 3/27/2016 4/23/2016
2017 4/11/2017 4/16/2017 4/11/2017
2018 4/1/2018 4/4/2018 4/1/2018

 

 

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On 3/31/2016 at 10:47 PM, Cheeto said:

I called Headquarters and they wouldn't say why it was in Adar, and not Nissan. I am aware of how they have counted the times for eons. As a witness,  I studied it also. But EVERY sorce I went to showed it was at the incorrect time for the Memorial.  I just want an answer!  Not a refference to another place in the publications that proves again, that it was on the wrong date. 

As I'm sure you already know, the whole purpose of adding a second Adar is so that Nisan continues to start as closely as possible  to the vernal equinox. (Spring in the Northern Hemisphere.) When the lunar year starts slipping back behind the solar year, the Jewish method tends to correct the year with a leap month, one year before it's really necessary to meet the goal of keeping Nisan as close to the beginning of Spring as possible. So this results in a wider range of possible dates that's closer to a 5 week range of dates that includes the equinox, when it's actually possible to keep it slightly more accurately to within nearly a 4 week range of dates that includes the equinox. By correcting the year to align the equinox with Nisan a year before it was really necessary, they (the Jewish method) added the second Adar one year prior to when "Christendom's" method would have added it. But "Christendom's" method is slightly more accurate, astronomically. And it's a bit simpler to calculate, and a little more consistent. You'll notice in the last chart of my last post that Passover usually aligns with Memorial, and the 6 times that it didn't, it was always because Jewish "leap-year" Adar was a year earlier than the method we follow.

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This is fine. I understand that. Yet the why the memorial is a MONTH before Passover leaves out the point that Jesus spent his last meal with the Apostles at Passover.  So regardless of when spring equinox falls on whose calender, the Passover meal WAS part of the meal Jesus had withe them. Passover HAS to be when the crops are green, etc. because of this being a lunar calendar they went by. No matter how the GB chooses to do it, Passover will ALWAYS be figured correct.  The memorial WAS at the wrong time. Not at Nissan 14, But Adar. You said what I knew, but have NOT answered the WHY Adar 2 is ignored.  Spring is spring. Adar 2, or leap year. Same=same.  Passover will NEVER change, just like God doesn't change. 

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@Cheeto  I don't understand why you say Passover will never change. It's as if you believe there is only one correct way to determine when to add the leap month called "Adar II." Here is some evidence that the method is sometimes arbitrary.

[BTW, I just noticed a typo in the Passover date for 2010: It was 3/30 not 4/30.]

In my lifetime +/- a couple of years, according the Jewish calendar method, Passover has fallen on April 7 about 4 times.

  • Whenever Passover fell on April 7th, it means that the month Nisan had started on March 24th, which was very close to the vernal equinox on about March 21st..
  • For every one of these 4 different years, the calendar NEVER added the leap month of Adar 2 at the end of that Jewish year (as an adjustment for the following year) even though, if they didn't, it would mean that the start of the month of Nisan was definitely going to slip back behind the vernal equinox in that next year.
  • As you might expect, if Passover fell on April 9th, they also never did add it.
  • As you might expect, if Passover fell on April 5th, they always did add the Adar II as the last month of that year.

So you might get the impression that April 7th was the cut-off point for the earliest that Passover could fall before it became necessary to add the Adar II. In fact, if you check April 6th 1985, they did add it, and after Passover on 4/8/1982 they did not add it.

So with just this info you would have:

  • April 5th, ADD IT
  • April 6th, ADD IT
  • April 7th, DO NOT ADD IT
  • April 8th, DO NOT ADD IT
  • April 9th, DO NOT ADD IT

So it might look like there is a uniform process that makes April 7th the cutoff, and any Passover that falls before 4/7 is an indicator that Adar II must be added to the end of that year, so that Spring and Passover doesn't come too early the next year.

But here is the problem with that:

  • April 6th, 1993 (and 1917, 1936) was a Passover date, and they did NOT add Adar II to the end of that year.
  • April 6th, 1985 (and 2004) was a Passover date, and they DID add Adar II to the end of that year.
  • So, although they never added after a 4/7 date, they sometimes DO and sometimes DON'T add one for a 4/6 day.

Those exceptions made "Spring" start more than a month later in 2012, than it did in 1994. In other words, Passover does change. It can be more than a month later (or earlier) in some years.

I think that the Watchtower acknowledged this very well all the way back in the yearly Memorial issue for 1908 where Russell said (pps. 35-36; Reprints pps 4127-8:

From the foregoing it will be seen that, with every endeavor to reach exactly the date specified in their Law for the Passover, the Jews have difficulty, and often there is of necessity a choice between two days equally appropriate. However, they follow the guidance of their leaders in this matter and have a uniformity of celebration, instead of each one trying to fix the date and celebrating according to his personal knowledge, convenience or preference. And this measure of subserviency to leaders was endorsed by our Lord, who said, "The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat; whatsoever therefore they bid you observe, that observe and do." (Matt. 23:3.) The Apostle indicated the same course to the Gospel Church. (Heb. 13:17.) Two essential features of the celebration of the Passover were: (1) uniformity, and (2) that it begin as exactly as possible at the full of the moon--which symbolized the fullness of favor to Israel.

 

So, one way of looking at it is: that by one person's reckoning the 14th of Adar (or Adar II) on one calendar is actually the 14th of Nisan  on the calendar of another person. Both are equally appropriate. One uses a certain method, to keep the start of Nisan as close as possible to the vernal equinox and another uses a different method. Most years, both methods will fall on the same date, , but some years, they won't. In those years when they don't fall on the same date, they are back in sync again the following year. Neither method is due to a Biblical command or injunction; both methods were developed and turned into a pattern over time, through some trial and error.

 

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I do see what everyone means. Someone asked what I meant about Passover not changing. What I was meaning was that the Passover was to always come after the spring equinox.  Things are supposed to be a certain way for it to be counted.You all sure gave me more information than anyone else and I thank you all for that. Peace to you all! 

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I see three typos, in my last post. One of them was where I even spelled "typo" wrong ("type"). None of it changes the overall point, but if there are any questions on any specifics, feel free to ask. Unfortunately, I keep clicking enter when done, and then when I come back to see what I wrote, it's too late to edit it. :$

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So seeing that! Why was the Jehovah's Witness Memorial a whole month before the passover? The Memorial was always near Passover because he had Passover with the Apostles before he was taken away. So why was the Memorial not near Passover as usual? 

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All you quoted from WT was that it could be a day or two off, but why was it a month early? Just a straight answer will do. It was way off from Passover and what you showed was why Passover is on different times.

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In 1938 as well in 1984 the new moon visible in Jerusalem was on April 2 after 18:00

In 1938 the moon illumination 4.2%
In 1984 the moon illumination 1.2%

Nisan 14 begins well after 18:00 April 15

New_Moon_4.2.1938.JPG

fi 1,2 AD 1h39m21.jpg

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why do you want coincide our calendar with the Jewish calendar? - 

In 2017 the New Moon in Jerusalem is March 29 after 18:00 - as well as in 1979 and 1998

In 1979 the moon illumination 3.1%
In 1998 the moon illumination 3.4%

in 2017 the moon illumination 3.2%

14 Nisan is indeed April 11, 2017

fi 3,2 AD 1h54m5.jpg

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8 hours ago, tromboneck said:

6419 increase in past 9 years

a whole lot a anointin going on.

All anointing, whether true or mistaken, is self-professed. There are 8 mil JWs worldwide? How significant is a  6.4K jump? I have known several 'modern' partakers - not all for whom you would say 'well, of course!'

I like it that the GB is drawn from persons who are A.) annointed, and B.) annnointed, who have proved their dedication through decades of full-time service, performing a ministry more lowly than most of those whom they later will lead.

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16 hours ago, tromboneck said:

Jesus made it clear that some of "this generation" will still be on earth when the great tribulation begins; relatively few are left now. Prophecies about the anointed generation prove that the end is near. This increase is positive, but not all of these anointed partakers are of this generation. They are anointed but do not count in the prophecy about "this generation." Those who are of this generation are, once again, dwindling each year, relatively few are left now.

But you also have to take into consideration the anointed of the overlapping generation, i.e those who were alive before the last known anointed of 1914 died. So that buys the "2nd generation" of anointed up to (approximately) 35 years.

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I am relying on a memory set over 50 years old, but I remember studying that if a traveler or other person could not make it to Memorial for some very serious reason, that they could have a Memorial Celebration one Lunar Month later. We studied that in the KM at the KH, if memory serves.

Does anybody remember this ... probably from the early 1960's?

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On 7/10/2017 at 8:08 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Does anybody remember this ... probably from the early 1960's?

Yes. I remember the "rule" but I never remember anyone ever speaking about specific "anointed" persons actually invoking it. Vaguely remember hearing about a natural disaster somewhere that forced the entire Memorial to be cancelled and then handled a month later, but I think even this became frowned up, especially after a formal announcement in the KM in 1999.

*** w60 4/1 p. 224 Questions From Readers ***
Of course, an exception should be made in the case of those of the remnant who, because of infirmity or sickness, are unable to attend. Individual portions are to be supplied to these, regardless of their age or physical condition, by a brother competent to discuss the occasion with them briefly. Such are to be considered as both attenders and partakers. Disfellowshiped persons are not welcome. Should they attend and partake, they would not be counted. Likewise, if any newcomers who are not yet baptized partake of the emblems, they should not be counted.
What if any professing to be of the remnant should, due to circumstances beyond their control, be absolutely prevented from observing the Memorial and partaking of the emblems? It would seem that the merciful and loving provision that Jehovah made for celebrating the Passover a month later by those Jews ceremonially unclean on Nisan 14 would apply in their case. The individual member of the remnant would therefore observe a personal memorial of Christ’s death on the fourteenth day of the following month, Iyar according to the Jewish calendar, or just thirty days later.—Num. 9:9-14.

In the 1999 KM it was announced that everything possible would be done to avoid this, by having elders take the Memorial emblems to anointed persons confined to their homes, etc. Also it was stated that it was NOT necessary for "other sheep" to make any additional arrangements for a missed meeting.

*** w93 2/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
If a Christian is sick or is traveling and thus not able to be at the Memorial celebration, should he celebrate it a month later?
. . . If one who has each year been partaking is this year confined to a sickbed at home or in a hospital, elders of the local congregation will arrange for one of them to take some of the bread and wine to the sick one, discuss appropriate Bible texts on the subject, and serve the emblems. If an anointed Christian is away from his home congregation, he should arrange to go to a congregation in the area where he will be on that date.
In view of this, it would only be under very exceptional circumstances that an anointed Christian would have to celebrate the Lord’s Evening Meal 30 days later (one lunar month), in line with the command at Numbers 9:10, 11 and the example at 2 Chronicles 30:1-3, 15.
Those who are of Jesus’ “other sheep” class, with the hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth, are not under command to partake of the bread and the wine. (John 10:16) It is important to attend the annual celebration, but they do not partake of the emblems. So if one of them is sick or is traveling and thus not with any congregation that evening, he or she could privately read over appropriate scriptures (including the account of Jesus’ instituting the celebration) and pray for Jehovah’s blessing on the event worldwide. But in this case there is no need for any additional arrangement for a meeting or a special Biblical discussion a month later.

I believe the KM had first began to regularly mention this arrangement for going to the partakers who were confined to home, hospital, etc., in 1987. (As it is already mentioned in 1960.) But I recall that this practice might have fallen off somewhat at least in the late 70s and early 80s, and that there might have been some announcement to bring it back into full effect in 1984, because this is when our congregation began making these arrangements, instead of still making special arrangements to bring infirm, anointed brothers to the Hall. This had proved to be a lot of stress for an elderly person for which my own family had provided the transportation, and I remember the switch-over very well that year. [Not important, but I'd be interested if this was the case for any others prior to 1984, in case it was just a couple congregations in my area who seemed to change their arrangements at that time.]

*** km 3/87 p. 3 Preparation for a Special Occasion ***
Are arrangements complete to help older and infirm brothers and sisters? Are arrangements made to serve any of the anointed who may be confined and unable to attend?

That 1993 WT article was brought up again in the KMS assignments in 1999 when Numbers 9 was part of the Bible Reading. But the main point was not about accommodating anointed with the one-month-later celebration, but only to make sure that it was understood that NO special arrangements were to be made for "other sheep" to have a special meeting one month later.

The "Written Review" in December 1999 said:

If a Christian of the other sheep class is not able to attend the Memorial of Jesus’ death, he should celebrate it a month later in harmony with the principle stated at Numbers 9:10, 11. (John 10:16) [Weekly Bible reading; see w93 2/1 p. 31 par. 9.]

The correct answer was FALSE (he should NOT celebrate it one month later).

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On 7/10/2017 at 9:30 PM, tromboneck said:

but I will take into serious consideration anything until Jesus Christ through his "faithful and discreet slave" explains it.

They have explained it, just like I quoted.

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10 hours ago, tromboneck said:

I'm sorry. Could you go over all that just one more time?

Tom, I am assuming you are asking me this question.

If you remember Br. Splane (in I can't  remember which month's broadcast) explained that the "2nd" generation of anointed would have to be contemporaries of the "1st" generation. This 1st generation would have had to be anointed in 1914 . He used the example of Br. Franz who was born in 1893 and baptized April 1914. Thus, anyone who became anointed during Br. Franz's lifetime and is still alive now, is of the 2nd generation. Br. Franz died in 1992, so anyone who was of the anointed before then (and is still alive) is of the 2nd generation, because their anointed life overlapped with that of Br. Franz. The youngest members whose lives overlapped with that of Br. Franz and who are still alive and who we know of, are in their early 50's (eg. Br. Jackson and Br. Sanderson) So, in theory, this does buy us about 35 years or so, assuming both brothers live to be in their late 80's and the great tribulation hasn't come before then.

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@tromboneck  P.S. We could stretch it even more with using the example of Br. Morris's son who I believe is 43? (or 45) and of the anointed. Assuming his son got baptized when he was 18 in 1992, just before Br. Franz dies, then he will also be among the 2nd generation. So that would "buy" us an extra 46 years (if we were to say he lived to be 89). I think 50 years is about the maximum years you can count. Of course as you say, the anointed don't have to wait until they die. But still, this gives us up to 50 years or so, where the end can come anytime between now and then.

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Well ... without HARD FACTS I am not one to take anyone's advice about invisible things that 5 out of 5 Elders I asked were unable to explain to me ... one being an EXTREMELY brilliant Elder that knows intricate detail about every Star Trek Episode ... and things that make no sense to me whatsoever because of their COMPLETELY arbitrary basis, ( that means completely made-up ... for those in Rio Linda) ... and I will allow that all this "gobbledygook", may in fact be true .... but I just DON'T SEE IT.

However, If I was to take someones' advice on these specific matters, It would be, not from someone who was ALWAYS WRONG about EVERYTHING not specifically stated in the Bible, but someone who was ALWAYS RIGHT about things they published.

You may find it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton was such a man ... and that his Core Beliefs are EXACTLY like the Jehovah's Witnesses Core Beliefs, and although he never published it, it was his opinion that Armageddon would occur PERHAPS in the year 2060, but possibly as early as 2032.  He hand wrote over a million words on Theological subjects, and his writings are in the Hebrew National Museum, in Jerusalem, if memory serves.

So .... should we believe someone who is ALWAYS wrong .. or someone who is ALWAYS right?

The way I look at it, since I have no control over ANY of it ... I don't care! 

I am going to try and live what is left of my life, as best I can know how, and let the rest slide.

May the Farce be with you!

 

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2 hours ago, tromboneck said:

I did not know that Bro. Morris' son was anointed. Now, that is a revelation. Thank you for that!

I didn't know either, until a friend in Bethel told me....

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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

However, If I was to take someones' advice on these specific matters, It would be, not from someone who was ALWAYS WRONG about EVERYTHING not specifically stated in the Bible, but someone who was ALWAYS RIGHT about things they published.

You may find it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton was such a man

The time has come to blow this Newton idiot out of the water. The fact is that Brother Newton was ALWAYS WRONG! ALL of the hogwash he handed down to the unwashed has been PROVEN faulty. He has NEVER been RIGHT. He only gave THE APPEARANCE of being right to those who were content to be LED BY THE NOSE!!!!

Brother Einstein has completely exposed what a pathetic simpleton he was. Not only that, he has EXPOSED the DUPES who followed him. MEN of HONOR, who are not afraid to DIE IN THE TRENCHES OF TRUTH have never blindly followed this MAN!!! Thomas Jefferson would have LAUGHED AT HIM!

The GBoS (Governing Body of Science) tries to foist upon HONORABLE MEN the absurdity that Brother Newton and Brother Einstein belong to the overlapping generation of scientists. It is ABSOLUTE HOGWASH designed to keep the ignorant ones IN THEIR CONTROL!!

Brother Einstein, too, will be shown up as the pathetic creature of dust he is, perhaps five, perhaps ten, perhaps more years from now - but he WILL BE SHOWN UP!!!  What? When I am cruising down the highway in my AMC Pacer, I am really standing still, and the whole world is racing past me at 60MPH? Is he nuts?

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5 hours ago, tromboneck said:

You state: The way I look at it, since I have no control over ANY of it ... I don't care!  You  MUST care!

Tom:

We are talking about two ENTIRELY different things ... please meditate on what I must have been trying to say in that posting, now that you have that hint.

I am so used to having to read a "million words" that really say nothing of value that I try not to do that ... even when it would help.

Job's three Elder friends sat in front of him for THREE DAYS "consoling" him ( If you have a LOT of money, they will do that ...), and when it was all said and done, they had NOTHING to say .... nothing worth recording in the Scriptures.

NOBODY sits in front of someone for three days and does not talk, even if you are dead.

I do not care about things that are unproven, unsubstantiated, and frankly, made up from clear air FANTASIES.

I enjoy fantasies, and usually keep them in a mental box with tall high walls so they do not get mixed in with reality .... usually labeled "Science Fiction", or just plain "Fiction", etc.

I have a mental room FULL of tall boxes, appropriately "labeled".

5 hours ago, tromboneck said:

Brother here is our situation: (1 Corinthians 13:12, 13) 1 " For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."

I agree with that 100% ... and that is what keeps me going ... but a metal mirror that is heavily scratched up reflects light,  but does not reflect any image, at all .. the light is scattered by the sides of the scratches in all directions.

BECAUSE I know that "At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.".

I have concluded that obsession with made up drivel (scratches, and even gouges...) is a waste of the pitifully few hours and minutes of my life that are left ...

... and I agree with the Apostle Paule when he said that love ... is greater than faith and hope. 

About those UNSUBSTANTIATED  things ... I Don't care.

It's called "Living with REALITY!"

Tom Rook

JTR

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That overlapping generations ploy is just a attempt to keep the money machine going for the very well to do covering body. It is not biblical and has no relation to the pagan memorial.

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After Jesus was arrested, the following morning, the Jews were looking forward to the Passover still as shown in John 18:28. Jesus would not have broken Jewish law  by having Passover a night early with his Disciples for then he would not be perfect but a law breaker. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was started so that is why they were having unleavened bread.  

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