Day of one's Birth vs. Birthday celebrations

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

under the question  Why do Jehovah's Witnesses not celebrate Valentine's Day?  I read that:
Jehovah's Witnesses only formally celebrate the one event that Jesus commanded his followers. The memorial of his death (1 Cor. 11:23-26).

They also celebrate other events which are referred to favorably in the Scriptures such as marriages, anniversaries, the birth of a baby, graduations and many other happy occasions. But why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate St. Valentine's Day?

What I don't understand here is that WE CAN celebrate the first birthdays of a child but WE CANNOT continue beyond that date in the following years.

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

If you could use the Scriptures it would be much better ...

[John Houston]

Why? Do you think that everything will have a scriptural answer? Or should have one? Scripture tells us that Paul reasoned with people to prove it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and die, and then be raised up to life. Do you think every answer he had came from scripture, if he reasoned with them?

Adam was quite happy upon seeing his new likeness of life when Jehovah presented the female to him, would you think Adam celebrated that date annually, commemorating it happy to have a woman with him, in essence celebrating a birthday?

Many wonder why we do not do so, why should we? I am glad to be alive. I think back as a child getting presents on certain days, but coming into the truth, I got them randomly, not just on those day or during those certain seasons. My parents did not get onto debt also trying to satisfy the cravings of 5 children during holidays and birthdays when they could show their love when they wanted to, not when it was dictat d to them by our birth dates or some pagan holiday we would celebrate.

Being born living and good health would be cause to celebrate, and a time of joy for the parents. The mother who had just spit this living being from her body would so be relieved and happy, and the father also from all the anxiety the mother has put him through, I know this having gone through this myself 2 times.

 Would I celebrate that time again, truthfully? Not really, my children were cause of strife and joy through the years and now as grown men, they are doing well with their own lives and families. Celebrating a wedding anniversary, would that be something of joy to celebrate over and over again? Yes, but to me no! It again is just another day. I was thankful of wedding legally my wife and we both serve Jehovah. The fan fair that goes with it I do not ascribe to it. Never have. Adam said nothing more about his wife, after the poem other than she would be the one from which all others would come. Period! No more, no less. That is how I see and do it. But that is me. You have a great day my friend, agape!

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

I cannot agree with you more brother. I say the same thing. I do not like celebrations... all of them .... but some people do like them ... do I have the authority to forbid them this joy?
if yes then I must prove it from the scriptures.... and if I want to play God then is pure hypocrisy to allow them the first birthday celebration and after that no more !

[The Librarian]

The reference is to celebrating the birth of one's baby boy or girl. Nothing can stop a man from celebrating that. He is not celebrating the day only the fact that it happened.

Birthdays are a remembrance of that day. Not a solemn remembrance but a celebratory one.

That is my best guess at trying to answer your question. Maybe someone else will chime in with something more concrete.

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

Yes exactly. This is what I cannot understand. We can celebrate the birth of the child as a fact BUT NOT as the day. When it comes to marriage then is ok to celebrate it as a day and not as the  fact that it happened. Because we don't celebrate it as the fact of marriage only once, but the day again and again every year and we call it anniversary.

[JW Insider]

On 3/1/2016 at 2:06 AM, Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης said:

under the question  Why do Jehovah's Witnesses not celebrate Valentine's Day?  I read that:
Jehovah's Witnesses only formally celebrate the one event that Jesus commanded his followers. The memorial of his death (1 Cor. 11:23-26).

They also celebrate other events which are referred to favorably in the Scriptures such as marriages, anniversaries, the birth of a baby, graduations and many other happy occasions. But why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate St. Valentine's Day?

What I don't understand here is that WE CAN celebrate the first birthdays of a child but WE CANNOT continue beyond that date in the following years.

When this came up elsewhere on jw-archive someone quoted the Watchtower article on Valentine's Day. I won't do that here, but I'm sure you know the information. Valentine's Day is still tied, in name at least, to a "saint." That ties it a little too close for comfort to a religious celebration, no matter how non-religious it is. Anyway, that wasn't even your question, since it was about birthdays. And there is nothing "religious" about birthdays.

I have an old talk outline where celebrating a child's birthday was tied to "creature worship" by giving too much undue attention to the child who had not really accomplished anything more than surviving for another year. Of course, the primary reason we give is that the Bible only mentions two birthday celebrations and they were both by wicked pagans who also happened to suborn a murder on their birthday.

At the meeting last night, it occurred to me that we are often asked to make assumptions and treat them as "gospel." One of these assumptions ties directly to our main public reason for avoiding birthdays. I'll just give a few examples so you can understand what I was thinking.

1. They played the introduction to Esther video that makes very bold and direct statements and gives dates with a high degree of authority in the voice. Nowhere do we ever admit that these dates are assumed dates, and that we often use dates that we KNOW are 10 to 20 years off the dates that ALL the evidence points to, just because we need to make those dates fit another preconceived assumption.

2. The Imitate book (ia) says that "Ahasuerus is widely thought to have been Xerxes I" and later it says that Xerxes I (per Herodotus) did the following: "when a wealthy man begged that his son be excused from joining the army, Xerxes had the son cut in half, his body displayed as a warning."  Yet, per the CLAM workbook (Christian Life and Ministry) it says "Once, he ordered a man to be cut in half and displayed as a warning." There is barely even a hint that this is from a source OUTSIDE the Bible. Yet, of course, the comment at the meeting turned this into a FACT, not about Xerxes I, but about Ahasuerus.

3. The meeting also made a special point to say that Esther was modest because she didn't ask for extra jewelry. (2006 Watchtower) Really? Does the Bible even mention as a FACT that extra jewelry was an option? Could she have asked for LESS jewelry, or only six months of those spa treatments she was given instead of the full year? Again, the speaker turned this assumption about jewelry into a FACT.

4. The other assumption was not at first turned into a fact by the speaker, but by an answer given in audience, and the speaker then agreed 100% and made a point to say how thankful we should be for KNOWING these things. (That Mordechai refused to bow to Haman for historical reasons, but forgetting that the CLAM workbook said "Why MIGHT Mordechai have refused...?")

These were still good points to think about, and there are good reasons to discuss what MIGHT have been going through the minds of these Bible characters. My only point is that we have trouble seeing what MIGHT be true when it goes against a view we hold, but we turn the "MIGHT" into "FACT" when it supports a view. Even a point or two in the book study on Elijah went in this direction, but the main point is about the banquets of Ahasuerus:

At the first banquet, there was drunkenness apparently, and this may have been the reason Vashti was summoned, perhaps even summoned immodestly by the king. Yet at the second banquet, ("THE BANQUET OF ESTHER") the king did this:

(Esther 2:18) . . .And the king held a great banquet for all his princes and his servants, the banquet of Esther. He then proclaimed an amnesty for the provinces, and he kept giving gifts according to the means of the king.

What occurred to me is why we never look at the differences between those two banquets and make an assumption from this about celebrations. Here we have a celebration by a pagan that did NOT end up in a murder, but in just the opposite. So we MIGHT decide that there is a lesson here about parties and celebrations. Bad things happen when there is drunkenness and abuse of power at birthdays (or licentious dancing, too, in the case of Herod). Yet, we also have a lesson about GOOD that can come of birthdays when modesty and proper influences abound. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Houston]

But in truth it's all trivial, right? Whether which we celebrate isn't the question, but why we do it. And if we do it to bring undue glory or it takes away from our spiritual activities then it is a problem that should be solved by us. Being aware that our actions effect those around us, this also will be taken into account in what we celebrate, since we are self sacrificing lovers of Jehovah, not living or loving of our self or needs. 

 These types of questions tend to bring up nothing but tensions which tear down, not build us up. Whatever we decide personally to celebrate is our business. Those who come when invited will enjoy their time hopefully and not try to enjoin their feeling upon others why it should not be happening, if this is true they should have stayed away. That was a choice! My choice is not to celebrate or even go when invited because I do not like such things, I've grown beyond them, but I do not hold this feeling on my wife if she wants to go or hold such things at our home. She knows how I feel on such things. Love is the vital force on all things in Christian life and living. 

Be well my friend, agape!

[Shiwiii]

On 3/1/2016 at 9:22 AM, JW Insider said:

Of course, the primary reason we give is that the Bible only mentions two birthday celebrations and they were both by wicked pagans who also happened to suborn a murder on their birthday.

I know the usual answer of being that two birthdays were mentioned and each time someone was killed/beheaded, and I am not picking this out of your response as your main point. I am just familiar with this reasoning and If this is the measuring stick, then it stands to reason that taking a nap in the afternoon is also evil. According to 2 Samuel 4:5-7, Ish-bosheth was taking an afternoon nap and was beheaded.

[Evacuated]

38 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If this is the measuring stick.....

The two bible accounts describing executions carried out coincidentally with the birthday celebrations of non-worshipers of Jehovah are not the measuring stick for the appropriateness of such celebrations by true Christians in modern times.

So the conclusion drawn that a seemingly harmless activity (Ish-bosheth's nap), accompanied by an evil event (Ish-bosheth's murder), renders that harmless activity evil by association is invalid. Ish-bosheth was murdered because he was Saul's son, not because he was asleep.

[Shiwiii]

6 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

The two bible accounts describing executions carried out coincidentally with the birthday celebrations of non-worshipers of Jehovah are not the measuring stick for the appropriateness of such celebrations by true Christians in modern times.

So the conclusion drawn that a seemingly harmless activity (Ish-bosheth's nap), accompanied by an evil event (Ish-bosheth's murder), renders that harmless activity evil by association is invalid. Ish-bosheth was murdered because he was Saul's son, not because he was asleep.

 

[Shiwiii]

harmless exactly.......what did a birthday have to do with a beheading????? was it not the action outside of the actual ritual?