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1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses


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52 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"Beware, my brothers. In the last days there will be false apostates among you."

Oh it's just vomit dog being bored. And like a naughty bored child he's looking for attention through engaging in outrageous behaviour. This of course will get him the wrong kind of attention because as soon as @The Librarianreturns from sipping Margaritas by the pool, he will find himself out on his rear, I mean ear. For now, he is just collecting more negative points....

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I have not made it a secret that I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's. Therefore, I think it's very important that we don't forget this part of our history, as we can learn from it. I think we learn just as much from the defensive attempts, like the one on "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses" linked above. In fact, I think the mistakes made back in the 1960's and early 1970's with respect to 1975 were very trivial compared to the lessons we

It is quite weird really. Cognitive dissonance perhaps? Just recently I listened to one of the old recordings. The "infamous" talk given by District overseer Charles Sinutko, where the phrase “stay alive till 75” apparently got coined. It was entitled “Serving with everlasting view in mind” I am sure you know which one I am talking about. Br. Sinutko begins his talk by asking “do we know what 1975 means to us? Well we don’t have to guess what the year 1975 means for us. The WT May /1 1967 i

Thanks. But I was referring to the irony of responding to a point about "honesty" by creating additional, false, contradictory accounts -- alter-egos or "personalities," as it were. However, that is almost a perfect lead-in to what many of us saw happening not long after the 1970's came and went without the expectations fulfilled. I haven't studied the psychology of these things, so I can't speak to egos and ids as others might be able to. But I can agree that ego in the more common meaning of t

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

This of course will get him the wrong kind of attention because as soon as @The Librarianreturns from sipping Margaritas by the pool, he will find himself out on his rear, I mean ear.

I have never known her to return from sipping Margaritas by the pool. Somebody will have to fetch her.

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Besides, everyone gets a free 'end of the world' card per lifetime. It is like a 'Get out of Jail Free' card. You don't whine when your opponent draws one. It's how the game is played.

Once a lifetime is within acceptable limits for tolerance if you truly are doing what Jesus said to 'keep on the watch.'

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A quote from the past.

Did the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses Ever Say That Armageddon Was Definitely Going to Come In 1975?

1975.jpg

It is an absolute lie to claim that the Witnesses said that Armageddon would come in 1975. Here is an article from *1974* that I carry around with me which shows what mature Witnesses knew and were saying:

"The publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man's existence will be completed in the mid-1970's. But these publications HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE WORLD'S END WOULD COME THEN. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation "Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour'" was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end."--w74 10/15 p. 635

You will notice that this appeared in the Watchtower at the end of 1974 and it was referring to what all Witnesses heard at their conventions that summer. So the facts are that anyone who was saying that Armageddon was definitely going to come by 1975 just was not listening carefully. They were doing what critics still do; rip statements out of context and selectively choose only what they want out of the literature.

I was baptized in 1966 so I was there in 1975 and it had absolutely no effect on me nor anyone in my very large family. The reason that it had no effect on 99.9% of Witnesses is because most were listening to what was really being said and not speculating. They were NOT saying that the end would come in 1975.

The truth is that from the start of discussions on 1975, JWs were told not to speculate on what may or may not happen. For some, it was a real test as to why they were JWs. Was it because of a date to save their necks or were they JWs because they loved and appreciated the Truth and Jehovah?


The year 1975 can be calculated from the prophecies in Daniel and confirmed by the events foretold by Christ. This interpretation is in complete agreement with standard rules of exegesis. So the Witnesses’ teaching on 1975 and our being in the “end times” of wicked human society is completely scriptural.

What was said by Witnesses in the ‘60's and ‘70's is still true: the end is still near and we should live our lives performing “holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah” (2Pet.3:11,12).

From 1914 onward, ALL the facets of the "sign" denoting the “end times” have escalated to an unprecedented degree worldwide (Mt.24:3ff). No other time in history has seen all these things come on one generation in such overwhelming measure. Combining this with the Bible chronology’s pointing to 1975 being about 6,000 years since man’s creation proves beyond any doubt that the world has entered its time of the end!

 There seems to be a disconnect between what people actually thought about 1975 in the eyes of the world....

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6 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

JWs didn't get the 1975 theory out of thin air

Sorry mate! I do believe they did! Or do you think that those who take the lead in shepherding the flock are not JWs?

We are 42 years down the line here.

It's equivalent to brothers in 1967 still harping on about the "princes" not coming back in 1925! Oh sorry, there are still people harping on about that now and that was 92 years ago!

I was there in 1975 and I knew then a lot of people who were there in 1925. We had 11 anointed in the congregation, 5 of them dedicated prior to 1914.

I never heard one of them gripe over dates or disappointment, but all of them expected the great tribulation "tomorrow". They have all gone now, but they were faifhful to their end.

I just fail to see an issue with excitement over the slightest possibility, imagined or otherwise, that the end of this system could be upon us. In fact, surely in harmony with the topic, that is one of the things a person has to do to survive Armageddon?

Speaking of the impending time of judgement in Habbakuk's time, Jehovah clearly stated: "Keep in expectation of it!" Hab 2:3

"Shepherding the flock" ? Huh! More like "herding cats"!

 

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1975 was and is a forcing, as it was a forcing in 1925 and it is a forcing even another date that I can not mention otherwise someone will shout "Blaspheme!".
1975 should not be calculated by Daniel or even by other biblical books.
However, the very important event to keep an eye was (and is) the suppression of the constant sacrifice by the king of the north (Russia).

Obviously we can not know if what happened on April 20, 2017 is really the event described in the Bible (there have been other "suppression" in Russia) but it is clear that we must pay attention.

From the suppression of the continuous sacrifice up to Armageddon, it is at most a certain number of years but be careful: I am not saying that you will know the exact day and hour - Matthew 24:36

If the beginning of the suppression is what happened in Russia on 20 April 2017, we will only understand if the preaching work will be banned in all the colonies of the former Soviet Union (before) and then in the rest of the world.
And of course, the war between the southern king and the king of the north must also burst.
And he must win the king of the north.

Be careful not to be terrified because these things have to happen but it is not yet the end.

However, from the suppression of the constant sacrifice to the Armageddon War, they go no more than 13 years (maybe less, but not more).

How do you know this without colliding with Matthew 24:36?
Pay attention to prophecy

 

 

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9 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

One work in progress at that time was Herbert W Armstrong. One of his works from 1956 accumulated to his booklet of 1975 prophecy. His magazine, “good news” spoke about Armageddon in our lifetime. That magazine was published in July 1975.

So, this idea that 1975 only came from the Watchtower, lacks facts and vision….

[I'm repeating here a post which is a response I just made to this claim about Armstrong, as it was moved to a new topic:]

And, don't forget that, in 1956, Herbert W Armstrong supposedly stole the idea from the February 1, 1955 Watchtower, which put the end of 6,000 years within one year of 1976:

*** w55 2/1 p. 95 Questions From Readers ***

  • In 1953 in preparing the chart that appears in the book “New Heavens and a New Earth” a one-year error was brought to light. By the aid of the New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the difference between the two numbers appearing at Genesis 7:6 and Genesis 7:11 became apparent, especially since there are two different Hebrew words here maintaining a distinct difference. At Genesis 7:6 the number 600 referring to Noah’s age means 600 full years, being what is generally termed a cardinal number. Whereas at Genesis 7:11 the number “600th,” an ordinal number, means 599 full years plus a portion of another year. . . .  Inasmuch as previously our chronology considered Noah as 600 full years old when he entered the ark, instead of the actual 599 years and some months, as we now see, this has meant that the preflood dates must be shrunk by one year, this bringing Adam’s creation for the fall of 4025 B.C. Incidentally, Jesus, who became the second or “last Adam,” was born in the fall of the year around the first of October.—1 Cor. 15:45, NW.
  • It is well to understand that all Bible chronology dates for events prior to 539 B.C. must be figured backward from the Absolute date of 539 B.C. In the sure date of 607 B.C. for the fall of Jerusalem we have an anchor for the chronology establishment of the important year of 1914. By an overwhelming number of physical facts occurring since 1914, this great turning-point year in man’s history, 1914, has been abundantly confirmed.
  • According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began. . . .
  • The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.

Of course, just a decade or so later, the Watchtower began minimizing the amount of time it would have taken for a perfect man to name all the animals if Jehovah brought them to him in a steady stream. The flaw in this reasoning was that angels would surely know that amount of time that Jehovah had kept a secret, so they would be aware of the day and the hour "when 6,000 years of Jehovah's present rest day come to an end."

There is also evidence that Fred W. Franz, who wrote the article above, in 1955, began recalculating in the early 1970's and wanted to begin publishing October 1974 as the date for the end of the 6,000 years of human history. F.W.Franz, I am told, thought this would have strengthened the 1975 argument. But this was supposedly one of the few times when N.Knorr put his foot down and told him he had caused enough trouble with 1975, and that Knorr thought that this vacillation would actually weaken the faith that people put in the Watchtower.

You probably already know this, but to your point, many Witnesses had to be counseled not to listen to Armstrong's radio program, especially in the late 1960's and early 1970's when many Witnesses claimed that he sounded exactly like the Watchtower.

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@DefenderOTT

I know that you have already said (elsewhere) that you were not the originator of much of the post you offered above. Just to help clarify what you are saying, I noticed that the first four paragraphs are exactly what can be seen from a person who wrote this on YAHOO ANSWERS about 6 years ago.

    Hello guest!
Those are the 4 paragraphs that start and then end as follows:

15 hours ago, DefenderOTT said:

It is an absolute lie to claim that the Witnesses said that Armageddon would come in 1975.

. . . . They were NOT saying that the end would come in 1975.

Then you apparently added your own words in the fifth paragraph above:

15 hours ago, DefenderOTT said:

The truth is that from the start of discussions on 1975, JWs were told not to speculate on what may or may not happen. For some, it was a real test as to why they were JWs. Was it because of a date to save their necks or were they JWs because they loved and appreciated the Truth and Jehovah?

Then it appears that you went back to quoting YAHOO ANSWERS, quoting the next three paragraphs, which started and ended, thus:

15 hours ago, DefenderOTT said:

The year 1975 can be calculated from the prophecies in Daniel and confirmed by the events foretold by Christ. . . . .  Combining this with the Bible chronology’s pointing to 1975 being about 6,000 years since man’s creation proves beyond any doubt that the world has entered its time of the end!

Then apparently you added your own words again to finish up the discussion.

15 hours ago, DefenderOTT said:

There seems to be a disconnect between what people actually thought about 1975 in the eyes of the world....

I only went to the trouble of mentioning all this because I would like to respond at some point to those claims from YAHOO ANSWERS.

For reference, here is the remaining part of the quote that was found on YAHOO ANSWERS. Although it's mostly wrong, it's also partly correct, and it's well written, and I expect that the points will come up from time to time:

Quote

Those who question this fact are like a woman in her ninth month questioning whether she is pregnant!!

True Christians continue to “put spiritual things first” and place material things as less important. And when Christians make a decision to give up some material things they don’t later complain and blame others because they may not have some benefits that others have.

The accusation that Jehovah's Witnesses have claimed to be inspired prophets or have tried to foretell the future is absolutely false and a misrepresentation.

The flat-out truth is that the Watchtower Society has NEVER claimed to give prophesies, to be inspired or to be infallible. These accusations are deceptive because they blatantly rip the Watchtower's words out of context.

Notice this sentence in the "Purpose" statement that appeared in EVERY issue of the Watchtower up to the mid- 70's: ***"No, The Watchtower is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a Book of prophecy..."***

"Since today we have the complete inspired Scriptures, God is not giving any more inspired visions or dreams. However, Jehovah's people today are seeing the fulfillment of many of the inspired visions and dreams that God's servants had in ancient times...Not that these prophesy in the sense of foretelling events under inspiration, but rather in that they are making public proclamation of the inspired dreams and visions long ago recorded."--Watchtower, 1 January 1971,

There are scores of similar Watchtower quotes that go back to the 1800's.

Neither Russell, the Watchtower nor any JW's has EVER claimed to give prophecies nor to be inspired. They never claimed infallibility in their teachings.

The early Witnesses did not "predict" anything, they simply delved into the Bible trying to see how prophecies already recorded in the Bible were going to be fulfilled. Sometimes their understandings were a little off and they willingly corrected them.

Sincerely,

BAR-ANERGES

 

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I know that you have already said (elsewhere) that you were not the originator of much of the post you offered above. Just to help clarify what you are saying, I noticed that the first four paragraphs are exactly what can be seen from a person who wrote this on YAHOO ANSWERS about 6 years ago.

    Hello guest!
Those are the 4 paragraphs that start and then end as follows:

Sorry Mate!

Your way off with your declaration. I didn't get the *quote* from there or alter the quote in any way, shape or form. I will not engage in personal theories that continue to gain support by the lack of facts by modern speculation, Sorry!!!

1975 article.jpg

1975 article2.jpg

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3 hours ago, DefenderOTT said:

Your way off with your declaration. I didn't get the *quote* from there or alter the quote in any way, shape or form. I will not engage in personal theories that continue to gain support by the lack of facts by modern speculation, Sorry!!!

LOL! Thanks for the information. Google returned this same general content that you posted in about 11 places, but after checking several of them, the ones I checked were missing the fifth paragraph and the last paragraph found on your post, which is why I assumed that you might have added both these paragraphs yourself. My apologies for the assumption that you had provided both of the extra paragraphs as your own comment. It looks to me now as if you only added the final sentence/paragraph: "There seems to be a disconnect between what people actually thought about 1975 in the eyes of the world.... " The versions I found on YAHOO ANSWERS didn't have the missing paragraphs, but some had versions of the 10 extra paragraphs that I quoted from the longer version in the last post. These versions are each a bit different, but repeat many of the key paragraphs. Examples:

    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!

My goal was to make sure that if I responded, I was going to be able to separate the part you wrote from the part you quoted. So thanks for helping me out on that point. Apparently, as you have now pointed out, you got your version from a place that perfectly matches

    Hello guest!

I had already glanced at that sight, but didn't inspect it because it was so quickly obvious that it was about 10 paragraphs too short to be the original answer. Anyway, the "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses" blog also agrees that it came originally from YAHOO ANSWERS and from BAR-ANERGES.

Not that these differences mattered much to the point being discussed, but I thought the author (BAR-ANERGES) wrote a very good thesis to discuss under this topic, because it is a fairly complete general answer that matches much of what I myself have said to people, in defense of 1975, and what my parents and many others typically say. So I thought it would be good to address all of it. (Along with anything you might have said in defense of it.)

 

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      Troisièmement, trouve en toi la joie de vivre. La joie est une petite qualité à quatre lettres. Elle se situe en toi, car chaque moment de ton quotidien elle se manifeste et elle vibre de tout ton être. Elle se manifeste, dans les moments où tu vois un coucher de soleil éblouissant, dans les activités avec tes amis qui te sont chère. Quand tu réussis un travail qui t'inspire et que tu réussis l'accomplissement avec brio. À plusieurs moment la joie se manifeste et tu dois prendre conscience de ces moments, car il font parti de la positivité de ta vie. Elle t'aide à oublier les épreuves que tu dois traverser.
      Quatrièmement, une clé primordiale doit être insérée en toi, celle de la confiance. La confiance est la synergie de l'amour désintéressé. Sans la confiance ton amour vacillera avec le temps. Bâtir la confiance est un travail acharné à ton travail personnel. Cette vertu t'aide à prendre conscience de tes mérites, de te rassurer que les actions que tu fais son juste et t'empêche de regarder constamment en arrière. La confiance te donnera la force d'avancer vers l'horizon de la lumière et croire en toi. 
      Cinquièmement, le courage, est le courant qui aide à te reprendre dans les moments difficiles où la vision de tes buts que tu entreprends devient très ardu. Il t'aide à ne pas baisser les bras dans les moments où tu ne vois plus la manière de franchir une étape, un examen de conscience qui illumine ta pensée à trouver une solution réfléchit et te dire, je vais être capable de réussir. Le courage est le deuxième souffle dans ta course vers le sommet de ta personnalité intérieure.
      Sixièmement, La force fait partie du courage, l'un ne va pas sans l'autre. Le courage est le souffle, l'oxygène qui activera ta force intérieure. La force t'aide à gravir les montagnes et même à certaine étape de ta vie à soulever les montagnes pour trouver les trésors qui y sont enfouis. La force te donne la chance à balayer les nuages de la tempête et de retrouver la chaleur du soleil du bonheur venant de Dieu.
      La septième étapes , la maîtrise de soi, une vertu qui est au sommet de ces étapes intérieures. La maîtrise de soi est l'étape ultime de ta vie  (les actions justes) car par cette vertue plus rien ne fera barrière dans le chemin que tu auras voulu suivre, car les épreuves que tu auras surmonté, te guidera à devenir maître de toi même et ne faire qu'un avec toi même, unis à Dieu et à son Roi.
      La maîtrise de soi te donnera un trésor inestimable qui est celui de l'harmonie. Équanimité ( équilibre parfait) dans tous les sens de ton âme. Tu trouveras la beauté ultime de chaques éléments de la vie, ta conscience sera dans ta pensée comme un métronome parfait; La vrai vie celle de nos rêves deviendra réalité, nous deviendrons un être de lumière. La lumière qui sommeillait en toi jaïllira de toute ta personne.
      Même dans la nuit des plus grandes tempêtes, tu seras un phare éblouissant de Dieu.
       
      SUIVRENT LES INSTRUCTIONS DE NOTRE DIEU JÉHOVAH NOUS MÈNE VERS LE VRAI BONHEUR CELUI DE LA VIE ÉTERNELLE.
      2 Timothée 3: 16-17, Proverbes chapitre 1-3,Galantes 5:22,23  1Corinthien 13: 4-(8 premier phrase)
       



      · 0 replies
    • LAWRENCE THOMAS  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      do you have the videos of the rejoice with jehovah's 2021
      · 1 reply
    • Annie Wade  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      can i please get the 20-21 circuit assembly make jehovah's heart rejoice
      · 1 reply
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