Mediator

[Shiwiii]

Who is the mediator between you and God/YHWH?

[Colin Thorpe]

if you have to ask this you are NOT a JW

[Shiwiii]

10 hours ago, Colin Thorpe said:

if you have to ask this you are NOT a JW

Yes, you are right, I'm not a jw. I'm still asking though.

[Shiwiii]

maybe I need to be more clear. 

You DO have a mediator, but who do you say this mediator is?

Is it Jesus?

Is it the anointed?

Is it the GB?

Is it the org as a whole? 

[Colin Thorpe]

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

maybe I need to be more clear. 

You DO have a mediator, but who do you say this mediator is?

Is it Jesus?

Is it the anointed?

Is it the GB?

Is it the org as a whole? 

let the bible speak 1Tim 2:5,6

[Shiwiii]

12 hours ago, Colin Thorpe said:

let the bible speak 1Tim 2:5,6

Thank you for your answer. At least someone is willing to give their opinion. 

I am in agreement with your quote. 

Do you see how each of us does have a mediator? 

[JW Insider]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:59 PM, Colin Thorpe said:

let the bible speak 1Tim 2:5,6

Most of us are not fully aware that Jesus is not our mediator unless we profess to be of the anointed class, the 144,000.

The Watchtower only used the word "mediator" with reference to Jesus Christ once in all of 2015, only a couple of times in 2014, never even once in 2013, once in 2012, and never once in 2011.

*** w15 1/15 p. 16 par. 14 Why We Observe the Lord’s Evening Meal ***
Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, and loyal anointed ones taken into it receive a heavenly inheritance.—Heb. 8:6; 9:15.

*** w14 10/15 p. 16 pars. 12-13 You Will Become “a Kingdom of Priests” ***
Moses was the mediator of the former covenant; Jesus is the Mediator of the new one. . . .
13 The new covenant relates to the Kingdom in that it produces a holy nation that has the privilege of becoming kings and priests in that heavenly Kingdom.

*** w13 *** NO MENTION

*** w12 1/15 p. 16 par. 1 Learn From ‘the Framework of Truth’ ***
Paul explained that the tabernacle was merely “a shadow of the heavenly things” and that Jesus became the Mediator of “a better covenant” than that mediated by Moses.

*** w11 *** NO MENTION

Other interesting mentions:

*** w10 3/15 p. 27 One Flock, One Shepherd ***
Jesus is the Mediator of that covenant, not a participant. As the Mediator, he evidently did not partake of the emblems.

*** w09 4/15 p. 27 Appreciating the Greater Moses ***
Value Christ as Mediator
14 Like Moses, Jesus was a mediator. A mediator acts as a bridge between two parties. Moses mediated the Law covenant between Jehovah and the Israelites. . . . In 33 C.E., Jehovah initiated a better covenant with a new Israel, “the Israel of God,” which became a worldwide congregation made up of anointed Christians. (Gal. 6:16) While the covenant mediated by Moses included laws written by God on stone, the covenant mediated by Jesus is superior. . . . Thus, “the Israel of God” is now God’s special property, ‘a nation producing the fruits’ of the Messianic Kingdom. (Matt. 21:43) Members of that spiritual nation are the participants in that new covenant.

*** w08 12/15 pp. 13-14 Appreciate Jesus’ Unique Role in God’s Purpose ***
“The Mediator of a New Covenant”
11 Read 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Jesus is the “one mediator between God and men.” He is “the mediator of a new covenant.” (Heb. 9:15; 12:24) . . .The original-language word translated “mediator” is a legal term. It refers to Jesus as a legal Mediator (or, in a sense, an attorney) of the new covenant that made possible the birth of a new nation, “the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16) This nation is composed of spirit-anointed Christians, who form a heavenly “royal priesthood.” (1 Pet. 2:9; Ex. 19:6) . . . What does Jesus’ role as Mediator involve? Well, Jehovah applies the value of Jesus’ blood to those being brought into the new covenant. In this way, Jehovah legally credits them with righteousness. (Rom. 3:24; Heb. 9:15) God can then take them into the new covenant with the prospect of their becoming heavenly king-priests! As their Mediator, Jesus assists them in maintaining a clean standing before God.—Heb. 2:16.

One morning, at breakfast at Brooklyn Bethel, Brother Franz was exceedingly angry and the subject caught a lot of Bethelites by surprise. I saw a lot of people who were half asleep quickly perk up their heads when he said that there were certain people around who would merge everyone together and make Jesus the mediator of every Tom, Dick and Harry. That's because even most Bethelites thought that Jesus was our mediator. The teaching hadn't changed, but an article had come out just a few weeks earlier that clarified in more explicit terms that that Jesus was NOT the mediator for the "other sheep" (or "great crowd").

This was actually one of Brother Franz' favorite topics. He often reminded us that the Christian Greek Scriptures were only written for the anointed, and not the other sheep. He recalled the time in a similar speech, when only the anointed were called "Jehovah's Witnesses." He often hinted that he had held onto the teaching that the both Jesus and the anointed were "The Christ." This was a teaching that was started around 1879 and not changed officially until around 1961, if I remember right. Jesus was the "head" of the Christ, and the anointed were the "body" of the Christ. But without all 144,001 there was no Christ.

On a personal note, when they stopped mentioning this idea much after 2008, I thought it was about to be changed. (In the past, not mentioning a doctrine for over a year was considered to be a strong hint that a doctrine was about to be changed, or at least was under discussion for a change.) 2008 was the year that a couple of other doctrines were changed, too.

If there have been any recent hints that it would be reconsidered, I have missed them. It looks like a lot of people will remain a bit confused as to why Paul (in 1 Timothy 2:5,6) uses the expression the way he does.

Officially, our teaching is still as follows:

*** w79 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers *** 

Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?   At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

 

*** w79 11/15 pp. 24-25 pars. 12-13 Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men” ***
12 So Jesus Christ in heaven is the Mediator between God and the spiritual Israelites, while these are still in the flesh as men and women. Even within the membership limits of this small “holy nation” the mediatorship of Jesus Christ has expanded, for God has followed a certain order in admitting classes of persons into the new covenant. Thus, for about a year from Pentecost of 33 C.E., Jesus was the Mediator of only those spiritual Israelites who had been fleshly Jews or circumcised Jewish proselytes. About 3,000 of these were added to spiritual Israel on that day of Pentecost, 33 C.E. (Acts 2:10, 37-41) Then, likely in the following year (34 C.E.) as a side effect of the persecution by Saul of Tarsus, the “good news” about the Christ was preached in Samaria and the holy spirit ‘fell upon’ the baptized believers there. (Acts 8:15-17) From then on the mediatorship of Jesus was widened out to benefit spiritual Israelites who had been men and women of Samaria, Samaritans.
13 Two years now pass. Finally, in the autumn of 36 C.E., or three and a half years after Jesus’ death and resurrection, he begins to be mediator to a third class of spiritual Israelites, those taken out from the uncircumcised Gentiles, beginning with the Italian centurion, Cornelius.

*** w79 11/15 p. 26 par. 20 Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men” ***
20 What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

The part I marked in red, is not something added here for this post, but was included in the original 1979 WT (although not in red). This caused a lot of discussion at Bethel, and tended to put a lot of people on the interrogation block. I think that Brother Franz (FWF) reaction to the questions and discussion that came up around this point was probably the core of the "apostasy" and why it affected so many dozens of Bethelites in 1979 and 1980.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

So not many jws know that the society has excluded Jesus from being their mediator.  Interesting, but they have to have a mediator,  right? I mean, how could a regular jw have access to God otherwise?

[Evacuated]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

discussion that came up around this point was probably the core of the "apostasy" and why it affected so many dozens of Bethelites in 1979 and 1980.

This is sad. Understanding the role of Jesus as a Mediator should have been a thrilling insight. It makes no difference to the benefits we gain as a result of the ransom and the hope we have for the future as Christians, whether anointed or not.

This spirit reminds me of the disciples squabbling over seats in the kingdom (Matt 20:20-28). Jesus responded "You do not know what you are asking for"

[Melinda Mills]

 

 

(Colossians 1:18-20) . . .He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; ¹⁹ because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, ²⁰ and through him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.

 

(1 John 2:1, 2) 2 My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. ² And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

 

(Matthew 20:28) Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, ⁶ who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.

(Titus 2:13, 14) while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, ¹⁴ who gave himself for us to set us free from every sort of lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people who are his own special possession, zealous for fine works.

(Hebrews 9:28) so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.

 (Isaiah 53:12) For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors.

(Romans 6:10) For the death that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time, but the life that he lives, he lives with reference to God.

(1 Peter 2:24) He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.”

 

  

*** w08 12/15 p. 14 par. 14 Appreciate Jesus’ Unique Role in God’s Purpose ***

¹⁴ What about those who are not in the new covenant, those who hope to live forever on earth, not in heaven? While not participants in the new covenant, these are beneficiaries of it. They receive forgiveness of their sins and are declared righteous as God’s friends. (Jas. 2:23; 1 John 2:1, 2) Whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope, each one of us has good reason to appreciate Jesus’ role as the Mediator of the new covenant.

 

[Shiwiii]

10 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

 

 

(Colossians 1:18-20) . . .He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; ¹⁹ because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, ²⁰ and through him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.

 

(1 John 2:1, 2) 2 My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. ² And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

 

(Matthew 20:28) Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, ⁶ who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.

(Titus 2:13, 14) while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, ¹⁴ who gave himself for us to set us free from every sort of lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people who are his own special possession, zealous for fine works.

(Hebrews 9:28) so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.

 (Isaiah 53:12) For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors.

(Romans 6:10) For the death that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time, but the life that he lives, he lives with reference to God.

(1 Peter 2:24) He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.”

 

  

*** w08 12/15 p. 14 par. 14 Appreciate Jesus’ Unique Role in God’s Purpose ***

¹⁴ What about those who are not in the new covenant, those who hope to live forever on earth, not in heaven? While not participants in the new covenant, these are beneficiaries of it. They receive forgiveness of their sins and are declared righteous as God’s friends. (Jas. 2:23; 1 John 2:1, 2) Whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope, each one of us has good reason to appreciate Jesus’ role as the Mediator of the new covenant.

 

So who is your mediator? 

[Melinda Mills]

Jesus.