Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?

[JWTheologian]

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

I don't know if you're being deceitful about what the WTS teaches, or if you don't know the WTS teaches that brother will be pitted against brother at the end of the 1,000 years.

I don’t know if your simply unaware how to read scripture, or don’t have an understanding of it. With your own cited scripture, at what point does it state, Brother will go against Brother, if JUDGEMENT will come from CHRIST.

Another simple anecdotal, where do you keep coming up with Jw’s at the end of the 1000-year reign. After Armageddon, WE will have become God’s People, and after we return to a state that GOD intended his creation to be, there will be no separatism assumed.

So your deception of Brother against Brother will NOT be governed by man, but judged through Christ. So the WTS is NOT implying what you are thinking of. Christ will judge US as individuals, not man as a nation. That’s why it’s important to understand scripture.

I learned that at age 5. Isaiah 2:4

4 And He will judge between the nations, and will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war.

[Shiwiii]

40 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

I don’t know if your simply unaware how to read scripture, or don’t have an understanding of it. With your own cited scripture, at what point does it state, Brother will go against Brother, if JUDGEMENT will come from CHRIST.

Another simple anecdotal, where do you keep coming up with Jw’s at the end of the 1000-year reign. After Armageddon, WE will have become God’s People, and after we return to a state that GOD intended his creation to be, there will be no separatism assumed.

So your deception of Brother against Brother will NOT be governed by man, but judged through Christ. So the WTS is NOT implying what you are thinking of. Christ will judge US as individuals, not man as a nation. That’s why it’s important to understand scripture.

I learned that at age 5. Isaiah 2:4

4 And He will judge between the nations, and will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war.

So who does Satan gather together for war at the end of the 1000 year reign if all that are left are perfect?

[HollyW]

7 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

I don’t know if your simply unaware how to read scripture, or don’t have an understanding of it. With your own cited scripture, at what point does it state, Brother will go against Brother, if JUDGEMENT will come from CHRIST.

Another simple anecdotal, where do you keep coming up with Jw’s at the end of the 1000-year reign. After Armageddon, WE will have become God’s People, and after we return to a state that GOD intended his creation to be, there will be no separatism assumed.

So your deception of Brother against Brother will NOT be governed by man, but judged through Christ. So the WTS is NOT implying what you are thinking of. Christ will judge US as individuals, not man as a nation. That’s why it’s important to understand scripture.

I learned that at age 5. Isaiah 2:4

4 And He will judge between the nations, and will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war.

Do you believe the WTS has interpreted Revelation 20:7-9 incorrectly then?  I posted their interpretation of it.

Revelation 20:7-9 “Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”

Your belief is that during the millennium everyone will live in peace and harmony, anyone out of harmony with (enemies of) Jehovah will either not be resurrected or will be summarily annihilated during that time, until by the end of the 1,000 years everyone on earth will have reached perfection and will have become perfectly sin-free, as Adam was before he sinned. Everyone on earth will have studied from the new WTS publications especially designed for them to come to know Jehovah and his requirements, and will have chosen to serve him as his Witnesses.  But then Satan is released and persuades a vast number of these perfected JWs to go to war against their fellow JWs.

 So, is the WTS wrong, or is this something you weren't aware of?

[JWTheologian]

4 hours ago, HollyW said:

Do you believe the WTS has interpreted Revelation 20:7-9 incorrectly then?  I posted their interpretation of it.

 

4 hours ago, HollyW said:

 So, is the WTS wrong, or is this something you weren't aware of?

You seem to be conflicted with wording. Between the word WAR, rather than CHALLENGE. The one who is incorrect her would be you, and your assumptions. Instead of giving it literal connotations, lookup the commentaries if you fail to understand the reasoning behind scripture.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

 

20:7-10 While this world lasts, Satan's power in it will not be wholly destroyed, though it may be limited and lessened. No sooner is Satan let loose, than he again begins deceiving the nations, and stirring them up to make war with the saints and servants of God. It would be well if the servants and ministers of Christ were as active and persevering in doing good, as his enemies in doing mischief. God will fight this last and decisive battle for his people, that the victory may be complete, and the glory be to himself.

Meyer's NT Commentary

Revelation 20:7-10. After the completion of the one thousand years, Satan is let loose; then he leads the heathen nations, Gog and Magog, to an attack upon the saints. But fire from heaven consumes those nations, and Satan is cast eternally into the lake of fire.

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

[JWTheologian]

11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So who does Satan gather together for war at the end of the 1000 year reign if all that are left are perfect?

 

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

You can also add false religion. Praying to BAAL, instead of JEHOVAH

[Witness]

23 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

Unfortunately, there is some misunderstanding in your perception of salvation. The required is personal, since God and Son will judge the just.

I’m sorry if I don’t make myself clear.  My perception has not gone awry regarding salvation.  It is personal, between oneself, God and Christ.

23 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

However, Jesus did put forward a plan to meet those just requirements. Your lone wolf perception, then is a gamble of what Christ asked us to do.

This was his initial plan down to this day:

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

²⁰ They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” ²¹ But the temple he had spoken of was his body. John 2:19,20

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; ¹⁰ who once werenot a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Pet 2:5,9

1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 21, 20; Ps 118:22

"Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
"But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be."
"And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues."  1 Cor 12:27,18,28

1 Cor 11:29,28,31; Rev.20:6; James1:18; Rev.14:4 

This is the New Covenant Bride, that brings life to mankind.  There is no other arrangement that God has blessed.  John 4:21; Heb 10:14

You will have to prove to me from scriptures that there is another arrangement other than the Body of Christ. Acts 17:24; Heb.9:11; Eph.2:10)

Paul, who was part of the Body of Christ, said;

Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, ¹¹ while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God. ¹² For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God, ¹³ while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men, ¹⁴ and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you. ¹⁵ Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!   2 Cor 9:10-15

“For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. ²⁰ For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; ²¹ because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. ²² For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.²³ Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.  Rom 8:19-23

This is the only administration that God has sanctified. 

23 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

So baptism is an acknowledgement one has to remain faithful until God’s day comes. The obedience is not to the instrument in which God uses to pass spiritual food, but obedience to God through Christ and those loyal servants. Remember no one can guarantee salvation no matter who they are.

Obedience is only to God and Christ.  Christ is mediator for all mankind; all mankind answers to Christ, not an elder committee.  And yes, no one can guarantee salvation no matter who they are.  But we can strive to take safe measures in serving God and Christ loyally.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. ⁴⁰ But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.⁴¹ “I do not receive honor from men. ⁴² But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. ⁴³ I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. ⁴⁴ How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? John 5:39-44

What Jesus said has not changed.  Do we dare change or add to scripture?  Ps 118:8;146:3

 For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise!  For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face. 2 Cor 11:19,20

How does a builder of traps make a successful trap?  Does he point to the obvious and say, “that’s a trap, beware!”?  The organization points all fingers to government, the UN (of which they were an NGO member for 9 years and still are in many countries), materialism, and states, beware, those are traps.  To devise the perfect animal trap it must hidden from the unsusceptible one; baited with the perfect food clinging to jaws of death.  Do you believe Satan will destroy many of Christ’s seed if the trap is exposed?  Gen 3:15; Prov 1:7

Satan has successfully trapped the anointed ones, along with all sheep, with truth, since he is well aware of what truth is!  What comes after is a mixed glass of poisoned teachings by fallen anointed ones, depicted as “stars” in the scriptures.  Rev 8:11; Jer 23:15; Amos 6:12 (Heb 11:12; Jude 1:13) 

Under the expected obedience, with mouths shut to spiritual “Gentiles” and oppression of a false “spiritual paradise”, (1 Thess 5:3) the Christ and his Temple of spiritual “Jews” lay in ruins.  Rom 2:29; Rev 2:9; 3:9

God allows this sifting, this choice to serve men or him completely.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ (1914) had come.  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, ⁴ who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 ⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth (Jer 23:29) and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (Matt 24:27,28) ⁹ The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, ¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. ¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, ¹² that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:1-12

There is only one truth that Christ has provided to lead us to salvation, and that is himself.  The organization is a strong delusion that God allows.  Each anointed one, each person, must be sifted, found pure of falsehoods, deceit, and detached from Satan’s world.  He has legal right to dominate any worldly power; an assumed theocratic one or not, during his reign (1 John 5:19). This is still his world, along with every power and authority within it. God's Kingdom does not arrive as a pocket inside Satan's world.  His powers are deceptive; his whole being and deceptions target God’s chosen ones.  Rev 12:15; 13:7,13-16; Matt 24:24

In order for the completed Bride of Christ to come to fruition, the “Temple” must be restored by those who willingly listen to Christ, and “come out” to buy his refinement and repent of falsehoods.  Rev 3:18-20; Mal 3:2 If the anointed are cut off and silenced by the GB  - those who are in Christ – then also Christ is cut off. 

Seventy weeks have been decreed concerning your people and your holy city: to restrain transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for lawlessness, to establish everlasting righteousness, to conclude vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. ²⁵ So be informed and discern that seven weeks and 62 weeks will elapse from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed Commander. The plaza and moat will be rebuilt, though in troubled times. ²⁶ Then after the 62 weeks, the anointed one will be cut down (but not for himself). Then the people of the Coming Commander (GB, elder body) will destroy both the city and the Sanctuary. Its ending will come like a flood, (Matt 24:39; Luke 17:26; Rev 12:15) and until the end there will be war (Eph 6:12; Rev 13:7), with desolations having been decreed. ²⁷ He will make a binding covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he will suspend both the sacrifice and grain offerings. (Mal 2:7; Heb 5:1; Heb 13:15)  Destructive people will cause desolation on the uttermost edge of the Sanctuary (the last of to be part of the Temple/Bride)  until it is complete and what has been decreed is poured out on the desolator.’”Dan 9:24-27  (Matt 24:15)

“I heard the man dressed in linen clothes, who was standing above the waters of the river as he lifted his right and left hands to heaven and swore by the one who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and a half. When the shattering of the power of the holy people has occurred, all these things will conclude.”  Dan 12:7

You can thank the GB/organization for bringing the power of the holy ones to nothing through statements such as this below, as well as disfellowshiping and judging one as spiritually “dead”, and that for serving their Master, Christ.

 Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. W 16/1 p 20-26

If you perceive this situation, then we are told in Matt 24:16 to flee to the mountains,God’s blessings from heavenly Zion and where the eagles spiritually gather.  This takes faith and confidence that one can rely solely on Jesus and God for sustenance and guidance. God truly becomes our Rock.  Matt 16:25; 24:28; Ps 71:3

 

 

[Shiwiii]

3 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

 

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

 

You can also add false religion. Praying to BAAL, instead of JEHOVAH

Tell me this then, those who do not submit themselves to Christ at the end of the thousand year reign,  did they gain to perfection as those who did submit?

[Shiwiii]

JWT, 

It is true that the society believes that only JW's will survive Armageddon. So then only JW's will be there at the end of the 1000 year reign. If only JW's are there after 1000 years, then they HAVE to be the ones who, after being made perfect, would align themselves with Satan by not submitting to Christ. Thus be on the opposite side of God and aligned with Satan, and ready for war against the saints.  

[HollyW]

4 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

 

You seem to be conflicted with wording. Between the word WAR, rather than CHALLENGE. The one who is incorrect her would be you, and your assumptions. Instead of giving it literal connotations, lookup the commentaries if you fail to understand the reasoning behind scripture.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

 

20:7-10 While this world lasts, Satan's power in it will not be wholly destroyed, though it may be limited and lessened. No sooner is Satan let loose, than he again begins deceiving the nations, and stirring them up to make war with the saints and servants of God. It would be well if the servants and ministers of Christ were as active and persevering in doing good, as his enemies in doing mischief. God will fight this last and decisive battle for his people, that the victory may be complete, and the glory be to himself.

Meyer's NT Commentary

Revelation 20:7-10. After the completion of the one thousand years, Satan is let loose; then he leads the heathen nations, Gog and Magog, to an attack upon the saints. But fire from heaven consumes those nations, and Satan is cast eternally into the lake of fire.

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

That's what I thought---you don't know your own teaching, do you.  Don't feel too bad about it, you're not alone. I've come across quite a few JWs who weren't aware the WTS teaches that even when everyone on earth is a JW (and perfect, too), there will be JWs who will be persuaded to go to war against other JWs.  I've shown you the proof but you seem to have closed your eyes through the middle of my post so here it is again:

Revelation 20:7-9 “Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”

Your belief is that during the millennium everyone will live in peace and harmony, anyone out of harmony with (enemies of) Jehovah will either not be resurrected or will be summarily annihilated during that time, until by the end of the 1,000 years everyone on earth will have reached perfection and will have become perfectly sin-free, as Adam was before he sinned. Everyone on earth will have studied from the new WTS publications especially designed for them to come to know Jehovah and his requirements, and will have chosen to serve him as his Witnesses.  But then Satan is released and persuades a vast number of these perfected JWs to go to war against their fellow JWs.

I hope you read it this time and do some research into the WTS publications I quoted earlier, the 5/15/2006 wt p. 6-7 and the Revelation Climax book p.292.  You call yourself a JW theologian, but you don't seem to be very well-versed in JW theology.

[JWTheologian]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Tell me this then, those who do not submit themselves to Christ at the end of the thousand year reign,  did they gain to perfection as those who did submit?

During that time frame, everyone will have come to be in harmony with the teaching of Christ. Those that don’t adhere after due to temptation as in the Garden of Eden will be dealt with by God the Father, and Christ the King. They will NOT be afforded a second chance as did Adam and Eve.

Revelation 21:8 Context: A new heaven and new earth

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

[Shiwiii]

2 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

During that time frame, everyone will have come to be in harmony with the teaching of Christ. Those that don’t adhere after due to temptation as in the Garden of Eden will be dealt with by God the Father, and Christ the King. They will NOT be afforded a second chance as did Adam and Eve.

Revelation 21:8 Context: A new heaven and new earth

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

but the point is that they are JW's who have gained perfection, or so the society says. The Bible speaks of those who align with Satan after the 1000 year reign, and according to WT theology they have to be JW's and they have to be perfect. 

[JWTheologian]

29 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

It is true that the society believes that only JW's will survive Armageddon. So then only JW's will be there at the end of the 1000 year reign. If only JW's are there after 1000 years, then they HAVE to be the ones who, after being made perfect, would align themselves with Satan by not submitting to Christ. Thus be on the opposite side of God and aligned with Satan, and ready for war against the saints.  

incorrect, the WTS teaches JW's have been taking the lead to obey God's Laws. After the 1000 reign, they will be known as God's Children, a perfect creation finally.