Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?

[Shiwiii]

6 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

I didn't choose the label, the WT did. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Context: Members of Christ

 

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts,

 

The WTS is an organization just like any other church. Be it Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, etc. They all publish their own understanding. However, the WTS publishes its understanding directly from scripture.

 

I didn't apply the conditions of these people, the WT did. Luke 23:43English Standard Version (ESV)43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

 

I didn't say who would make it and who wouldn't, the WT did.  Revelation 2:7 English Standard Version (ESV)7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

 

So your anticlerical question. The WTS didn’t God’s Word did. Learn scripture.

 

What??? Didn't you just get through telling me that I was the one who applied these labels? 

 

52 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

You want to continue to put a label.

now you want to say it was God? 

Why don't you read what you wrote a few posts back and get back to me. You need to clarify where you are coming from if I am going to  continue a discussion. 

[JWTheologian]

32 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What??? Didn't you just get through telling me that I was the one who applied these labels? 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

now you want to say it was God? 

Why don't you read what you wrote a few posts back and get back to me. You need to clarify where you are coming from if I am going to  continue a discussion. 

Your claim is suggestive. Your presuming that the WTS is publishing articles without understanding scripture. Your presumption is flawed just like your label. The WTS publishes it’s spiritual understanding directly from scripture. Whose words are in scripture. Or are you implying now, that scripture is NOT the inspired word of God?

This reversal of yours is cliché!

[JWTheologian]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

I’m sorry if I don’t make myself clear.  My perception has not gone awry regarding salvation.  It is personal, between oneself, God and Christ.

Unfortunately, we cannot pick and choice what we will obey out of scripture, Either your obedient to the covenant or you’re not.

Mark 16:20 Context: The Ascension

20And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them, confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it.

Matthew Henry Commentary

16:19,20 After the Lord had spoken he went up into heaven. Sitting is a posture of rest, he had finished his work; and a posture of rule, he took possession of his kingdom. He sat at the right hand of God, which denotes his sovereign dignity and universal power. Whatever God does concerning us, gives to us, or accepts from us, it is by his Son. Now he is glorified with the glory he had before the world. The apostles went forth, and preached everywhere, far and near. Though the doctrine they preached was spiritual and heavenly, and directly contrary to the spirit and temper of the world; though it met with much opposition, and was wholly destitute of all worldly supports and advantages; yet in a few years the sound went forth unto the ends of the earth. Christ's ministers do not now need to work miracles to prove their message; the Scriptures are proved to be of Divine origin, and this renders those without excuse who reject or neglect them. The effects of the gospel, when faithfully preached, and truly believed, in changing the tempers and characters of mankind, form a constant proof, a miraculous proof, that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, of all who believe.

We would all love to worship God away from conflict. However, Jesus paved the way for humanity to receive spiritual food. If we don’t understand scripture, or base our own understanding of scripture. How will one know, if one has erred? So far in this website, understanding scripture is flawed.

Colossians 2:23 Context: Alive in Christ

23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Colossians 1:18 Context: The Supremacy of Christ

18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

[HollyW]

15 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

What??? Didn't you just get through telling me that I was the one who applied these labels? 

 

now you want to say it was God? 

Why don't you read what you wrote a few posts back and get back to me. You need to clarify where you are coming from if I am going to  continue a discussion. 

I'm still trying to figure out how "spike" got into it.

 

[Witness]

On 7/12/2016 at 4:12 PM, JWTheologian said:

Unfortunately, we cannot pick and choice what we will obey out of scripture, Either your obedient to the covenant or you’re not.

Preaching means nothing if it leads one to identify with an organization propounded to be salvation and with a history of false prophesy. 

As I said earlier, “To call an earthly organization full of corruption hidden under the surface as God’s promise of life, is blasphemy.  Luke 4:5-8 One cannot fill the eye with loyalty to God and Christ by serving an organization placed in Satan’s realm.  Matt 6:24”

Which covenant promise would set sights on the earthly, life or death?

 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.  But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.  This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. ¹⁶ For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. ¹⁷ But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.  James 3:13-17

The organization cannot boast that it is pure when examining its history of confusion in teachings and false prophesy; thus it does not impart good fruits. It is far from peaceable, when disfellowshiping exists that breaks up families. It shows no mercy to God’s chosen ones for choose to serve their Master, Christ outside of an organization.  Its doctrines are not willing to yield to the victims harmed through pedophilia, disfellowshiping, trampling, and oppression.

And just as a child seeks his parents’ protection when a storm rages, we seek protection in Jehovah’s organization when, like a thunderstorm, the problems of this world strike us. w11 4/15 pp. 3-5 -

 As the above WT quote should show you, it is partial to itself; hypocritical toward God who alone is our protective fortress. 

I love you, God— you make me strong.
God is bedrock under my feet, the castle in which I live,
    my rescuing knight. My God—the high crag
    where I run for dear life, hiding behind the boulders,
    safe in the granite hideout.   Ps 18:2

Do you see the hypocrisy?  Do you see the idolatry?

"To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike?  Isa 46:5

“Jehovah’s organization” is viewed equal to God! 

Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me  Isa 46:9

Yet my people have forgotten me;
    they burn incense to worthless idols,
which made them stumble in their ways,
    in the ancient paths.
They made them walk in byways,
    on roads not built up.  Jer 18:1

The burning of incense has the connotation of giving praise, prayers and adoration to something, be it God or an idol.  “Seeking protection” in an earthly basic principle of the world is worthless.  The result is spiritual stumbling and confusion in teachings; the forgetting of the laws written on the hearts of anointed ones who have ultimately severed themselves from the vine of Christ, for their own self-seeking existence.   When one stumbles thousands on doctrine, be it minor or major, this shows the absence of good fruit.  Christ doesn’t mislead thousands for the good of any cause whatsoever.

I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.  John 15:5,6

Their work brings praise to Jehovah and his organization. kr chap. 20 pp. 209-219

Again, the two entities are one in the same, but God has said, ‘there is none like me”.  Why would he make an exception now – the God who is unchanging?  Mal 3:6; James 1:17

If you read around your scripture in Col 2, notice:

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—  “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,”  which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?  These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

The neglect of the “body” is practiced by your Governing Body, who silences their own in the Body of Christ, when each member is to be viewed equal, with no partiality. Eph 5:29 Who is enforcing doctrines of men if it isn’t the organization?  I remember reading an Awake article on how to clean my car, of all things; as if one cannot think for themselves.  If one is dedicated to Christ alone, no one needs to remind you how to please him.  Holy Spirit direct us individually in all aspects of life, and no man tells me if I am doing it well (do not touch, do not taste, do not handle).  The organization prides itself on the basic principles of the world, appearing wise, humble, all under false pretenses and missing the value of Christ’s nourishment that comes from the vine of Christ.

The true preaching work of the good news is one of coming out to repentance and allowing Christ to directly nourish us in truth at the "marriage feast" of the lamb. Matt.22:2,8,9; Luke14:15; Rev.19:7,9,10; 22:6; 1:1; 5:2,5,7; 6:1; 3:20; John 10:9; Matt 7:7,8  (Rev 18:4-8) 

http://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com/

 

 

[JWTheologian]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Preaching means nothing if it leads one to identify with an organization propounded to be salvation and with a history of false prophesy. 

 

As I said earlier, “To call an earthly organization full of corruption hidden under the surface as God’s promise of life, is blasphemy.  Luke 4:5-8 One cannot fill the eye with loyalty to God and Christ by serving an organization placed in Satan’s realm.  Matt 6:24”

 

Which covenant promise would set sights on the earthly, life or death?

That’s strictly your opinion. Now think of the same for yourself. Christ spoke of unity for a reason. The hypothetical evil slave then falls within your own convoluted opinion.

[Witness]

9 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

That’s strictly your opinion. Now think of the same for yourself. Christ spoke of unity for a reason. The hypothetical evil slave then falls within your own convoluted opinion.

I give you scripture upon scripture, hoping you will open your eyes.  Yes, Christ demands unity of the Body as source of teaching and building up of one another. In prophesy, we are told that those who are “sighing and groaning” over all these detestable things is being done in the midst of “Jerusalem”.  Ezek 9:4   The anointed are God’s Temple, New Jerusalem and the location of the detestable things being committed.  1 Pet 2:5,9 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 21, 20; Ps 118:22

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. W 16/1 p 20-26

“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’  And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”  Matt 24:44-46

Learn about the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:1-31   Read your scriptures and put man’s opinion aside.

And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.  And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.  So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. 2 Cor 11:12-15

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). it-1 pp. 1167-1172

We also love the organization that Jehovah uses to teach us wonderful truths. ws11 7/15 pp. 10-16

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.  For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 2 Cor 11:3,4

 

[JWTheologian]

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

I give you scripture upon scripture, hoping you will open your eyes.  Yes, Christ demands unity of the Body as source of teaching and building up of one another. In prophesy, we are told that those who are “sighing and groaning” over all these detestable things is being done in the midst of “Jerusalem”.  Ezek 9:4   The anointed are God’s Temple, New Jerusalem and the location of the detestable things being committed.  1 Pet 2:5,9 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 21, 20; Ps 118:22

we cannot find common ground, when you have blind obedience. To yourself, or a group as yourself. You cannot call your body a temple if you have disobedience in your heart. Christ left a structured command, and you only recognize a portion of it. By that means, you are NOT fulfilling God’s purpose in human life. You are only looking at the messenger, rather than fulfilling the message. There is a chain of command per say to fulfilling all of our godly devotion. There will always be someone to take the responsibility to bring a flock to sanctifying God, and our lord and savior, the correct way. By people GOD has approved to receive his Holy Spirit. Those that Follow scripture with a true understanding.

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

I have been through many discussions with Born again Christians, and Judeo Christians that fail to apply bible knowledge in its proper context. So how can one be of one body and one mind, if one does not build upon the structure with obedience.

 

1 Peter 2:20-21 Context: Christ's Example of Suffering NT

Luke 20:17 Context: The Parable of the Wicked Tenants NT

2 Corinthians 6:16 Context: Do Not Be Unequally Yoked NT

Romans 6:16 Context: The Wages of Sin NT

Hebrews 3:6 Context: Jesus Our Apostle and High Priest NT

 

Acts 2:32-42 Context: Peter Preaches to the Crowd NT

Matthew Henry Commentary

2:22-36 From this gift of the Holy Ghost, Peter preaches unto them Jesus: and here is the history of Christ. Here is an account of his death and sufferings, which they witnessed but a few weeks before. His death is considered as God's act; and of wonderful grace and wisdom. Thus Divine justice must be satisfied, God and man brought together again, and Christ himself glorified, according to an eternal counsel, which could not be altered. And as the people's act; in them it was an act of awful sin and folly. Christ's resurrection did away the reproach of his death; Peter speaks largely upon this. Christ was God's Holy One, sanctified and set apart to his service in the work of redemption. His death and sufferings should be, not to him only, but to all his, the entrance to a blessed life for evermore. This event had taken place as foretold, and the apostles were witnesses. Nor did the resurrection rest upon this alone; Christ had poured upon his disciples the miraculous gifts and Divine influences, of which they witnessed the effects. Through the Saviour, the ways of life are made known; and we are encouraged to expect God's presence, and his favour for evermore. All this springs from assured belief that Jesus is the Lord, and the anointed Saviour.

What was Paul’s instructions to Timothy?

 

1 Timothy 4:12-14 Context: A Good Minister of Jesus Christ

12Let no one despise your youth, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, and to teaching. 14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given you through the prophecy spoken over you at the laying on of the hands of the elders.…

2 Timothy 4:1-3 Context: Preach the Word

1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.…

2 Timothy 2:15 Context: The Lord's Approved Workman

14Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words; this is in no way profitable, and leads its listeners to ruin. 15Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent and empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness,…

These instructions were given for the purpose of not deviating away from the message. For us to get it straight, so that our teaching would be sound when teaching others.

So then, your perception is flawed when you state the following:

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

This would therefore apply to you and your misleading application of scripture. To this understanding, the Apostles would form the same headship as the governing body, or the pope, or any elder, priest, pastor, etc. that take the responsibility to act accordingly as Paul instructed Timothy to be. Because Paul would have been the instructor. Paul was an imperfect man. So, then…with your perception, you would have to call Paul an evil slave. Does this make sense to you? Paul was given instruction and commissioned by Christ. Those instructions were passed down in a form of obedience to direction by God’s inspired word.

1 John 4:2 Context: Testing the Spirits

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time.…

Understanding Scripture: an overview of the Bible’s origin, reliability, and meaning 2012

Good preaching requires prayerfully interpreting the text in its context. This involves using the established rules of interpretation; understanding the text’s application both in its historical setting and in the whole of Scripture; discerning how it is a revelation of Jesus Christ and making the appropriate biblical connections; taking the trip from Jerusalem to one’s own town and coming to see its present relevance; articulating the theme of the text; using stories and illustrations that truly illuminate the text; and employing language that actually communicates in today’s culture.[p.108]

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

Learn about the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:1-31   Read your scriptures and put man’s opinion aside.

So in a sense, this is exactly what you are NOT doing.

 

Spiritual Guidance, is something that is learned by the interaction of others. When Jesus commissioned the Apostles? It was to give them an exact knowledge of his Father’s Truth. That’s was Christ Teachings.

We cannot be dismissive just because we don’t agree in the manner the message is being presented. The only way that would be a factor, is with teaching FALSE doctrine. Your implication the WTS is doing this because of the governing body(Men) is such an objective. Well, who commissioned you with exact knowledge through Holy Spirit to make such a claim. Christ was a perfect son of man. The GB pray to receive that exact knowledge so to dispense it. The Pope, believes he receives that divine revelation by speaking directly to God at 4:00 A.M. in a darkroom in a tiny room up on Vatican City. However, how can one receive this Holy Spirit, if one’s personal spirit is questionable. Then we go back to Paul’s instruction to Timothy, Right?

Conversely, your teachings by misinterpretation should be viewed as this FALSE doctrine teaching, thus being the hypothetical evil slave. Remember the good old biblical saying:

Luke 6:42 Context: Do Not Judge NT

42How can you say, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while you yourself fail to see the beam in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

You might say, well I’m being judgmental. Not exactly, I’m correcting the manner in which scripture is being portrayed to mislead those that lack deep understanding.

So in ESSENCE, I am telling true followers of Jehovah to stay away from sites such as this one that is riddled with APOSTASY. Why? So they may keep their temple you invigorate so much, clean from corruption, as instructed by Christ. Is this my saying? NO! it comes from the inspired word of GOD, not MAN. And that’s your biggest fallacy. So I am doing Christ teaching a service, rather than a disservice for thinking one body one mind, that serves NO purpose in UNITY.

Philippians 2:3-4 Context: One in Christ NT

3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.…

1 Peter 2:12-25 Context: Submission to Authorities NT

12Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us. 13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to the king as the supreme authority,

Matthew 28:18-20 Context: The Great Commission NT

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 13:16-18 Context: Sacrifice, Obedience, and Prayer NT

16And do not neglect to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they watch over your souls as those who must give an account. To this end, allow them to lead with joy and not with grief, for that would be of no advantage to you. 18Pray for us; we are convinced that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way.…

 

[Witness]

On 7/16/2016 at 0:50 PM, JWTheologian said:

Christ left a structured command, and you only recognize a portion of it.

This is his only structure, built on love, of which I brought out above:

“Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”  They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” ²¹ But the temple he had spoken of was his body. John 2:19,20

1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 22,20; Ps 118:22; 1 Cor 12:27,18,28; 1 Cor 11:28,28,31; Rev 20:6; James 1:18, Rev 14:4

You still haven’t shown me any other arrangement.  The early temple arrangement was a shadow of this new Temple in Christ.

They serve in a sanctuary that is a copy, a shadow of the heavenly one. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tent: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”  Heb 8:5

These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.  Col 2:17

Heb 10:1; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10

We know that on the hearts of these anointed ones are God’s laws written by the holy spirit, which causes them to “bear witness” through their works when in harmony with these laws. 2 Cor 3:3; Rom 2:12-16

“So how can one be of one body and one mind, if one does not build upon the structure with obedience.”

Obedience to whom?  To man?  And what structure can man build as equal to what God has created?  The structure built upon, is Christ and the anointed Body, to the benefit of all.  Our obedience is not to men (obey God as ruler rather than men), but to the Father and Christ.  Acts 5:29; Rom 6:16 

You say,  “Those instructions were passed down in a form of obedience to direction by God’s inspired word.”

Are you implying this obedience must come through men, when we are to obey the gospel, God and Christ?  Gal 3:1; 5:7; 2 Thess 1:8

"Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching (from God). My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them." John 14:23

Paul said, “And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.”  2 Thess 3:14   This says nothing about obeying men and their uninspired writings (which they agree are not inspired); but the gospel which is inspired.

If we obey what Jesus taught, we are obeying God.  John 12:49  Now, if you throw in Heb 13:17 which says…

 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Look at the word for, “who rule over you”, G2233, which means basically, to “lead, to go before, to be a leader”.  In the Body of Christ, there are leaders to lead one to Christ and obey his teachings through fine fruits of the holy spirit. (Mal 2:7-9)  Jesus was a leader who washed his disciple's feet.  This is leading by example in servitude and humility. Paul was one of those leaders, who would teach as you say….

“These instructions were given for the purpose of not deviating away from the message. For us to get it straight, so that our teaching would be sound when teaching others.”

That’s the key, isn’t it, sound teaching in Christ; which the Wt doesn’t display through their historic failed prophesies and their present infamous words showing otherwise:

At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.  w13 11/15 pp. 16-20 –

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers 2 Tim 4:3

This is the exact scripture you pointed out to me.  A true leader in Christ would say, “Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.”  2 Tim 1:13

“There is a chain of command per say to fulfilling all of our godly devotion.”

One of the WT lawyers actually did compare the organization the Catholic Church and its hierarchy. 

 Calvin Rouse -  “We are a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church.  And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest”

Once upon a time, it was said:

“Who, then, is doing the discipling work today? There can be no doubt of this. It is the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. The revival of the work of making disciples is to be found in that organization in these last days. They have freed themselves from the constricting creeds and contaminating false doctrines of the nominal churches. They have freed themselves from the hierarchical, congregational and all other forms of church rule that are unscriptural and they are governed by theocratic rule.” (w66 4/1 p205)

There is no superiority within the body of Christ! Paul continually built up the body in love, while the GB has torn it down in lack of love due to an atmosphere of superiority. 

Paul’s words:

Rom 12:13 - 3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.  If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 1 Cor 12:24-26

 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave.  Matt.20:26,27

The GB teaches obedience to them; thus, this is your "chain of command". If they were truly a servant as Paul, not only to the whole Body of Christ but to all; they would “slave” as such a servant in humility, but instead prefer the best seat with a title only Jesus Christ will give to any servant who proves faithful. 

Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. 1 PET 4:10

 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.  Matt 20:16

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, (for instance, “defrocking a priest and kicking him out”) you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.  Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.  So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?  Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Rom 2:1-4

Does this last scripture allow for any judgment on the part of GB to wield against one’s own brother through disfellowshiping or to submit to obedience...to mere men?  This is the difference between Christ’s total arrangement and the centralized authoritative arrangement by men, where love cannot exist.

 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28

Take these scriptures and align them with the WT comment that obedience is necessary even if doctrine is not “sound”. 

"It is extremely important for us to obey the elders.  Why?  Think of how Jehovah gave instructions to his people so that they could survive difficult times in the past."  WT 11/2013

This is not the guidance Paul gave, in fact to those who were lording it over others he said,

“ For who makes you differ from another? 1 Cor 4:7

The genuine anointed GB has chosen for themselves the title “faithful slave” over all other anointed in Christ.  This desire for prominence is not new:

 For who makes you superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?  You already have all you want! (a self-assumed title of a faithful and discreet slave) You have already become rich! You have become kings without us! I wish you really were kings so that we could be kings with you! ⁹ For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display in last place, like men condemned to death. We have become a spectacle for the world, for angels, and for people to stare at. 

It is the “wicked brothers” considered “spiritually dead” that become the spectacle; all for serving Christ and the Father and knowing obedience to men is unscriptural.

We are fools for the Messiah’s sake, but you are wise in the Messiah. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.¹ We are hungry, thirsty, dressed in rags, brutally treated, and homeless, right up to the present.  We wear ourselves out from working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless. When persecuted, we endure.  When slandered, we answer with kind words. Even now we have become the filth of the world, the scum of the universe.1 Cor 4:7-13

Those that stand up to the GB and elder body, by saying their salvation is in God and Christ alone,  follow the example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego

“Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up?

 (Do you not accept or identify that the organizational image is sanctioned by God?)

But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?”  Dan 3:15

Disfellowshiping ensues with the mark of a “spiritual death”  Rev 11:9

If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.”

“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”  

 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.  Rev 11:11

Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, who sent His Angel and delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and they have frustrated the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they should not serve nor worship any god except their own God!  Dan 3:28

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.  Rev 20:4

There is no comparing Paul’s encouraging guidance to lead ones to Christ, against the GB’s assumed authority passed on to “gentile” elders who require full obedience to them.  Rom 4:4;Luke 16:10

Now concerning food offered to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.  If anyone thinks he really knows something, he has not yet learned it as he ought to know it.  But anyone who loves God is known by him.  1 Cor 8:1-3

One last thought, when the organization was instituting a governing body in the ‘70’s, Fred Franz gave a revealing talk to the Gilead Graduating class of September ’75, proving there was no governing body in the first century.  I hope you consider hearing it.  

http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/minimoog-898174-gilead-grad-talk-59th-class/

 

Foolish Virgins    http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/04/foolish-virgins.html

 

 

 

[JWTheologian]

On 7/19/2016 at 10:18 AM, Witness said:

You still haven’t shown me any other arrangement.  The early temple arrangement was a shadow of this new Temple in Christ.

Here's the thing. I’m not here to press upon you what I think scripture means. I’m basically here to convey to the people that come to this website, there are people that enjoy being deceptive by misleading people here, by showing WTS literature that doesn’t convey the sentiment of the WTS but their own convoluted opinion.

The WTS bases all it’s teaching from the Holy Bible. That’s the constitution of the WTS. The WTS for Jehovah’s Witnesses changed not necessarily in 1931 when it was announced, but 1934 when their literature reflected the name change. So, anyone Baptized under that name was a real Witness and not a reformed Bible Student like Rutherford that was baptized in 1906 under the banner of Bible Students, and anyone joining the Witnesses between 1934 and 1942, when Knorr became the FIRST true leader of Jehovah’s Witnesses under that banner, were Reformed Bible Students. A description that was never entered but should have been, RBS.

The idea that the Bible Students and the Jehovah’s Witnesses share the same ideology, is simply…distorting the FACTS.

Now your biggest problem with the WTS is HATE. You definitely don't understand scripture, but press upon using scripture to misrepresent the intended use. That’s fine. The only one your hurting is you.

Now you call yourself a Christian of good standing. FALSE! If you were in good standing, you would reflect in everything you write, and correct your views.

You pretend to ignore the FACT that God left, a structured scheme for man to follow after the fall of man. You continue to suggest that Jehovah himself has failed because he used people like, Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David, etc. and anyone he deemed fit to relay his wishes. God used MEN to achieve those goals. JESUS used MEN to achieve those goals.

So the perception is ludicrous no matter how you slice it. Not to mention, you would also have to cancel yourself for being part of the human race. (MEN) Therefore all the negativity you have for the WTS can also be APPLIED to YOU.

Now you stated elsewhere not to inject personal thoughts, and yet…the opinions you have about the WTS are your personal opinion. So, do yourself a favor and not rely on apostasy sites for your information, or wannabe JW’s that pretend to be Witnesses when they are NOT. Ann O’maly, and JWinsider are a perfect example of putting trust on a false prophet. But then, anyone evangelizing for deception in the eyes of God is a FALSE PROPHET, Right! Anyone who deliberately misleads the flock for their own personal gain. Why was King Saul removed!!!

Answer yourself that. The Governing Body if you really must know didn’t have its inception when it was first published that way. It began Before Rutherford. So WTS history, you definitely don't.

Now, the outlandish look in leaders, would pretty much includes ALL religions, since they are all governed by someone. For Witnesses, we believe in scripture as our constitution.

But try to justify ACTS 6:3 Context: The Choosing of the Seven

3Therefore, brothers, select from among you seven men confirmed to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will appoint this responsibility to them.

These are GODS WORDS and CHRIST INSTRUCTIONS, I dare you!!!!!!!!!!!, find fault with them both, for suggesting to find 7 reputable “MEN”, among “MEN”. Which is the makeup of the Governing Body right now.

So, you can recite the entire bible. It won’t make any difference until you learn the TRUE meaning of scripture. Don’t let hypocrisy be ones undoing. Because in essence, your going against bible principle.

[Witness]

On 7/21/2016 at 10:29 AM, JWTheologian said:

 

Here's the thing. I’m not here to press upon you what I think scripture means. I’m basically here to convey to the people that come to this website, there are people that enjoy being deceptive by misleading people here, by showing WTS literature that doesn’t convey the sentiment of the WTS but their own convoluted opinion.

 

 

You said two very disconnected thoughts (your words are in green):

Here's the thing. I’m not here to press upon you what I think scripture means.

So, you can recite the entire bible. It won’t make any difference until you learn the TRUE meaning of scripture. Don’t let hypocrisy be ones undoing. Because in essence, you’re going against bible principle.

Your second comment tells me that the meaning of scripture is indeed important to you, but your refuting my many points made with scripture go unheeded and labeled as “going against bible principle”.   If bible principle is that important, shouldn’t we bring up the scriptures to endorse it, which is what I’ve done continually?  What bible principle do you feel I am disregarding?

The idea that the Bible Students and the Jehovah’s Witnesses share the same ideology, is simply…distorting the FACTS.

I don’t recall making any support to Bible Students.

Now your biggest problem with the WTS is HATE. You definitely don't understand scripture, but press upon using scripture to misrepresent the intended use. That’s fine. The only one your hurting is you.

This is my commitment:

  And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”Mar 12:30,31

I can strive to do this by giving God whole souled worship and with guidance of the Holy Spirit I can love my neighbor as myself.  No man should stand in the way of telling us how to do this.  I wouldn’t be on here to hopefully open JWs eyes if it wasn’t love for those I have known and loved for over 30 years.  I hate the lies which affect the lives of thousands under this operation of error over many years – the strong delusion JWs reside in.  2 Thess 2:1-12   I fear for the very souls who persist in idolatry against the Almighty God.  Rev 9:20

You have two beasts on your hands; one, a false prophet/harlot who has left their covenant in Christ, the source of life, by choosing to teach lies. Rev 16:13; 17:15;Isa 28:15; 2 Cor 12-15 The other, an “image” that enforces its mark signifying one’s actions and commitment (identifying mark of baptism). Rev 13:14,15; 14:9-11 It has been given authority by the second beast to “kill” (disfellowship) those who refuse it and listen instead to Christ. Rev 20:4; Mark 10:42-45;29-31; 10:19

This is Revelation’s fulfillment sir, this is the end time destruction of Christ’s seed by Satan, the “fourth beast” of Daniel.  Gen 3:15; Dan 7:23; 8:25; Dan 12:7; Mark 20:14  You can look into the world for fulfillment as JWs always have, while residing in a proposed spiritual paradise, forgetting that Jesus comes as a thief in the night.  Matt 24:43; 1 Thess 5:2; Rev 3:3; 16:15; 1 Thess 5:3; Jer 14:13,14  Or, we can turn from the earthly, sensual desires and give our attention fully to Christ and the Father. 1 John 2:15-17; James 4:4; Acts 17:24; 2 Cor 1:12; Phil 3:19; James 3:14,15 

Col 3:1  , where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.seek the things that are aboveIf then you have been raised with Christ,

Stephen, one of the “seven good men” you mentioned, portrayed this to the hard-hearted Jews.

 “Our ancestors carried the Tabernacle with them through the wilderness. It was constructed according to the plan God had shown to Moses. Years later, when Joshua led our ancestors in battle against the nations that God drove out of this land, the Tabernacle was taken with them into their new territory. And it stayed there until the time of King David. David found favor with God and asked for the privilege of building a permanent Temple for the God of Jacob. But it was Solomon who actually built it. However, the Most High doesn’t live in temples made by human hands. As the prophet says, ‘Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Could you build Me a temple as good as that?’ asks the Lord. ‘Could you build Me such a resting place? Didn’t My hands make both heaven and earth?’ You stubborn people! You are heathen at heart and deaf to the truth. Must you forever resist the Holy Spirit? That’s what your ancestors did, and so do you!" (Acts 7:44-51).

Stephen was “full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people” (Acts 6:8), and he was hated for it, by certain Jews.  I believe it was fear and jealousy – fear of the threat against a tradition well loved, jealousy because Stephen’s words showed his wisdom and the blessing of Holy Spirit.  Interestingly, he was accused “secretly” by appointed men who said, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.”  Acts 6:11 

Can you tell me why he said, “must you forever resist the Holy Spirit?”  His whole focus was on Jesus Christ, the Father and the New Covenant.  The Temple was man’s idea to build, the tabernacle was God’s.  In that tabernacle were the stone tablets given to Moses, and signified the moveable presence of God amidst the people.  God allowed for the Jews’ desire to build their temples, but with the New Covenant in Christ, “he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."  Heb 8:13

The words that Stephen quoted from Isa 66:1,2 shows God cannot be contained to a building of any form, yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their stiff-necked ways continue to do it:

 As they do so, they encounter many individuals, both young and old, who have the potential for becoming “desirable things” that will glorify Jehovah’s house. W/00/1/15 p 14-19

There is also a children’s video, Lesson 18: Respect Jehovah’s House

Those anointed in Christ now carry the laws written on the heart - a “witness” ( Acts 7:44)– this is where God and Christ now reside. Gal 4:26; Col 2:17 This shows no need for a temple, a church, a kingdom hall, an organization.

  For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.1 Cor 3:9 (10-17)

 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 2 Cor 3:2,3

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst? 1 Cor 3:16 (2 Cor 5:1; Eph 3:17; 1 John 3:24; Eph 4:11-15)

Is Stephen’s message any different than what I’ve been telling you?  For rejecting the organization, and accepting Christ Jesus and God only as salvation; “secretly” in a back room of kingdom hall brothers and sisters are accused of blasphemy just like Stephen.  They are not stoned to death but are considered as good as dead through the decision of disfellowshiping for not accepting an organization as one’s salvation. 

My message is not one of hate to brothers and sisters, but one of warning, to flee from an idolatrous situation.  This, on the other hand is hate:

"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against brothers only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill brothers, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such brothers under the same roof. Wt. ‘52/11/15 p 703

Now you stated elsewhere not to inject personal thoughts,

I don’t ever recall saying that.

and yet…the opinions you have about the WTS are your personal opinion. So, do yourself a favor and not rely on apostasy sites for your information, or wannabe JW’s that pretend to be Witnesses when they are NOT. Ann O’maly, and JWinsider are a perfect example of putting trust on a false prophet. But then, anyone evangelizing for deception in the eyes of God is a FALSE PROPHET, Right! Anyone who deliberately misleads the flock for their own personal gain. 

Should I list the failed prophetic dates of the WT and the lies to cover up their failures, or let you do the research?  Would you not agree that the flock of JWs has been misled many times over the years in anticipation of a new date for Armageddon?  The fourth beast:

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time  Dan 7:25 (Rev 13:10; Luke 22:31; Mal 3:2,3; Ezek 37:23; Rev 11:1-3)

Answer yourself that. The Governing Body if you really must know didn’t have its inception when it was first published that way. It began Before Rutherford. So WTS history, you definitely don't.

Before a theocratic Governing Body was appointed, there were presidents who were the primary go-to for theocratic decisions, along with a governing body that dealt not with theocratic matters, but matters of business.  The governing body then is not the Governing Body today.

Verification of this fact can be found in Geoffrey Jackson’s answers to Angus Stewart during the Australian Royal Commission on the 1006 hidden cases of child abuse:

“I would have to check on that, because personally that’s not my field.”

“I preface this in the fact that it is not my field that I work with every day…”

“Seeing it is not my field per se, I couldn’t give an inclusive answer with regard to that…”

And many more.

“Only as far as approving the basic scriptural principles. So is there a scriptural principle that you have in mind you want to ask me about, or are you talking about policies and implementation of policies? There is a difference there.” GJ  (see also W 2001/1/15 pp 28-31)

When looking at the 7 men that you spoke of in Acts 7, did you notice that all the apostles and disciples got together to consider the appointment?  Is this the case when choosing a member of the GB?  Are other anointed ones and members of the Body of Christ included in this?  From the Australian Royal Commission:

Lawyer Angus Stewart:  “And is it the case that the Governing Body then appoints new members of the Governing Body?  GB member Geoffrey Jackson:  “That is correct.”

Now you call yourself a Christian of good standing. FALSE! If you were in good standing, you would reflect in everything you write, and correct your views.

You know, I have never said I was in “good standing”.  Each one of us answers to our judge, Jesus Christ.  Each one of us is tested to our whole souled faith in, and commitment to God.  I certainly am a Christian who relies on Holy Spirit continually for direction, the remembrance of God’s laws, and remaining in his love.  We have a choice in the spiritual battle of truth over lies.  I chose truth in Jesus Christ, devoid of any manmade doctrine. Heb 13:9

 “But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.  But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,  keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.  And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.”  Jude 1:17-23

Yes, it as you say, we don’t want hypocrisy to be our undoing.  We search the scriptures for truth and refinement from lies. We do not expect God to change any wrongs or failed predictions the organization may commit, but we change ourselves, since each one of us will be held accountable for our acceptance of wayward teachings, or our listening to Christ.  These are the bible principles we are to follow, to continually test the “fruit” to see if it is good or bad.  If bad, we are to reject it, not tolerate it.  Matt 7:18; Rev 3:18; Matt 17:5; Jer 23:16; Isa 28:5-15

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.  John 14:23

The Last Harlot and Her Beast http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/12/here-is-earlier-post-with-updates.html  

 

 

 

[Witness]

12 hours ago, Witness said:

Col 3:1  , where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.seek the things that are aboveIf then you have been raised with Christ,

I noticed when pasting from word, things get twisted and this one escaped my noticed.

"If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God?"  Col 3:1