Generation

[John Houston]

No, you wouldn't have to speculate. Thinking like Jehovah the way scripture speaks of him and how Jesus is such an image and mirrors him, would the Father have yet told him? Why? Jesus is the King, scripture states he would lead the force which would bring to the end all wickedness on earth. When would the Son need to know? When Jehovah has said , 'it is time' , no earlier. Jesus yet does not know the day nor the hour. Yes he has been given much more glory than he had before coming here to live as a human. And fulfilling his purpose as he was purposed to do, he received much, but some knowledge is still outside his grasp. Such is the relationship of a Father and Son. 

[Guest Allen Smith]

And there is where the image and puppetry lies. With Recreants NOT researcher feeble attempt to confuse the outlook on generations.

Some people speculate that Jesus earned the right to know the end times. The point would be, why Jesus would go against his father’s wishes (Matthew 24:36) of only the father knowing the end time, since Jah is GOD (Isaiah 46:9) and there is NO other BEFORE him. That statement also included Christ. Jesus became the Messiah, the Redeemer, NOT a GOD, even though ignorance precedes the WORD. (1 Corinthians 1:29-31)

JW’s are NOT born again Christians, but are born again to the truth and knowledge that is required to manifest true salvation. (John 3:1-21)-( 1 John 3:1-24)

The biggest opposers illustrated on the internet are non-witnesses pretending to be witnesses, and ex-bethelites (Titus 1:15) pretending to know the conscience and minds of the Governing Body. It just makes their effort of reasoning seem worthless. (John 8:31-59)

Just like the faithless members of a generation equated to the 40 year wilderness ancient Israel endured due to rebellion. It seems to me the flaw lies within themselves, since that typical generation would be the one being experienced right now, the generation of the big “A”. That’s something that has been known since 2001. So the Org doesn’t have it WRONG, once again, ignorance does. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

[Shiwiii]

On 3/14/2016 at 5:36 AM, gfnslave said:

Thank you for your input. I appreciate your use of Scripture to interpret Scripture. It seems a generation is not as long as some think.

What part of Ann's comment was scripture?  

[JW Insider]

On 3/14/2016 at 1:25 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

What would be the length of a generation as mentioned in Gen 15:16?

The Chronology article in Insight should be helpful here in mapping the 4 generations to the 400 years mentioned n verse 14:

*** it-1 pp. 460-461 Chronology ***
The period from Abraham’s move to Canaan until Jacob’s going down into Egypt was 215 years. This figure is derived from the following facts: Twenty-five years passed from Abraham’s departure from Haran to the birth of Isaac (Ge 12:4; 21:5); from then to the birth of Jacob was 60 years (Ge 25:26); and Jacob was 130 at the time of his entry into Egypt (Ge 47:9); thus giving a total of 215 years (from 1943 to 1728 B.C.E.). This means that an equal period of 215 years was thereafter spent by the Israelites in Egypt (from 1728 to 1513 B.C.E.). . . . “You may know for sure that your seed will become an alien resident in a land not theirs, and they will have to serve them, and these will certainly afflict them for four hundred years.” (Ge 15:13; see also Ac 7:6, 7.) This was stated prior to the birth of the promised heir or “seed,” Isaac. In 1932 B.C.E. Ishmael was born to Abram by the Egyptian servant girl Hagar, and in 1918 B.C.E. Isaac was born. (Ge 16:16; 21:5) Counting back 400 years from the Exodus, which marked the end of the ‘afflicting’ (Ge 15:14), would bring us to 1913 B.C.E., and at that time Isaac was about five years old. . . .  The very fact that this incident was recorded in detail in the divine record also points to its marking the commencement of the prophesied 400-year period of affliction that would not end until the Exodus.—Ga 4:29.

So these 4 generations could be understood to take the full 400 years. Of course there is also a good possibility that the 4 generations refers only to the portion of those 400 years that begins after Abraham is promised a peaceful death in old age (1843 BCE), or just as likely, the portion of time that four generations of offspring will be foreigners n Egypt..

(Genesis 15:13-16) 13 Then He said to Aʹbram: “Know for certain that your offspring will be foreigners in a land not theirs and that the people there will enslave them and afflict them for 400 years. . . . 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 But they will return here in the fourth generation, . . .

*** it-1 p. 31 Abraham ***
Finally, at the good old age of 175, Abraham died, in 1843 B.C.E.

 

If it's the 215-year portion spent in a land not theirs (Egypt) then it's 215 divided by 4 which is nearly 54 years. If it's the full 400 years divided by 4 generations Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the "12" brothers, then that averages 100 years each. If it's 400 years that starts after Abraham's death.in 1843 BCE, then 1843 to 1513 BCE leaves an average generation of 82.5 years.

The most likely one that fits the other generation examples would have to be the four generations that spent time in Egypt, not only after Abraham died, but even after Joseph died.  In this case, that's about 54 years.

(Exodus 1:5-8) . . .. 5 And all those who were born to Jacob were 70 people, but Joseph was already in Egypt. 6 Joseph eventually died, and also all his brothers and all that generation. 7 And the Israelites became fruitful and began to increase greatly, and they kept on multiplying and growing mightier at an extraordinary rate, so that the land became filled with them. 8 In time there arose over Egypt a new king, one who did not know Joseph

*** it-1 p. 778 Exodus ***  ". . .there could have been more than three million persons."

*** it-2 pp. 110-111 Joseph *** Joseph survived his father by about 54 years, reaching the age of 110 years. It was his privilege to see even some of his great-grandsons. Before his death, Joseph, in faith, requested that his bones be taken to Canaan by the Israelites at the time of their Exodus.

So, it obviously required 4 generations to produce the millions who traveled with Moses. Notice the average, even during times when lifespans were recorded up to nearly 1,000 years of age,

*** it-1 p. 28 Abraham ***
Abraham was the tenth generation from Noah through Shem and was born 352 years after the Deluge, in 2018 B.C.E.

That's about 35.2 years when you divide 352 years by 10 generations.

We also already know that one of the meanings Jesus had in mind was about 33 to 36 years from 33 C.E. up until Jerusalem was surrounded in 66 C.E. up until it was destroyed in 70 C.E.

 

 

 

[Evacuated]

@JW Insider Thanks for the detail. Confirms my feeling on the flexible nature of what the term references.

[JW Insider]

On 4/9/2016 at 4:25 AM, Eoin Joyce said:

@JW Insider Thanks for the detail. Confirms my feeling on the flexible nature of what the term references.

True. You could have numbers ranging from 30 to 40 to 50-something. This 4 generations in 400 years seems like a maximum, but the Bible explicitly lists about 8 generations during that time (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Joseph's children, Joseph's grandchildren, the generation that died out in the wilderness so as not to see the promised land (a "40-year generation" as Allen pointed out), and also the youngest generation that did see the promised land. Those 8 generations could cut the average down to 50 years.

We studied this several times at Bethel back in the 1970's and 80's. And I know that others were given the same research task long before and long after. The most interesting thing I remember about that research is something that really surprised me when it hit me: Jesus said it would NOT be one generation. His point contrasted with 40 year generation that died out in the wilderness.

So Jesus point was NOT so that we could speculate that, for example, a generation can be up to 50 years and therefore 50 years from that point would be the Jewish "Armageddon" in 70 AD. His point was that most of them would live to see it. Jesus knew that it would be much less than 50 years. If it would be 50 years, then most of them would NOT see it, and there would be no reason for anyone to lift up their heads because their deliverance was getting near.

So evidently the expression "this generation will by no means pass away" was nearly the equivalent of saying:

(Luke 9:27) "But I tell you truly, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Kingdom of God.”

Of course, that particular verse can be tied the fore-glimpse of the Kingdom that some apostles received just days after Jesus said it. What happened in Jerusalem's great tribulation, was also only a glimpse of what would happen in the world's great tribulation. The Christian community received a powerful lesson that we can also learn from.

But if we start calculating the maximum length of a generation and use it to determine the farthest range of time for which God Kingdom "will be done on earth" then we have missed the point.

[Evacuated]

54 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But if we start calculating the maximum length of a generation and use it to determine the farthest range of time for which God Kingdom "will be done on earth" then we have missed the point.

As Peter counseled: "await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah" 2 Pet 3:12a