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ALLAH – the Moon God

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Guest Kurt

The Archaeology of the Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

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The reader must know that Islam, Judaism, and organized Christianity (so-called) all worship a trinity of gods 

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-God. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites." 

In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon-god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3; II Kings 21:3, 5; 23:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13; Zephaniah 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stele of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period. 

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the Moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest. The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms." 

During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god. 

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god. 

This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists. 

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names. 

The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being." 

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god. 

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god. 

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be. . . a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?


Origin of the Name Allah

The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god", i.e. the god. We see immediately that (a) this is not a proper name but a generic name rather like the Hebrew El (which as we have seen was used of any deity; and (b) that Allah is not a foreign word (as it would have been if it had been borrowed from the Hebrew Bible) but a purely Arabic one. It would also be wrong to compare "Allah" with the Hebrew or Greek for God (El and Theos, respectively), because "Allah" is purely an Arabic term used exclusively in reference to an Arabic deity. 

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name . . . corresponding to the Babylonian Bel" (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326). 

I know that Muslims will find this hard to believe so I am now going to make many citations and present the archaeological evidence to prove conclusively that is true. Though this data will be painful for many of our readers, it is necessary to face the truth. Facts are facts, and unless you are willing to desert all logic, reason and common sense, and the evidence of your eyes, they must be faced. 


"Allah is found . . . in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah"  (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302) 

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406) 

"Ilah . . . appears in pre-Islamic poetry . . . By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1971, III:1093) 

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammed" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, "The Facts on File", ed. Anthony Mercatante, New York, 1983, I:41) 

The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1908, I:326) 

Scholar Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University stated: 

"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, the Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p.102) 

Dr. Kenneth Cragg, former editor of the prestigious scholarly journal Muslim World and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works were generally published by Oxford University, comments: 

The name Allah is also evident in archaeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia" (The Call of the Minaret, New York: OUP, 1956, p. 31). 

Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic Studies at College de France, Georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes: 

"In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god". In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" (Mohammad's Mecca, p.vii. See also his article, "Belief in a High God in pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Scientific Semitic Studies, vol.16, 1971, pp.35-40) 

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying: 

"There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" (Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York: Barrons, 1987, p.28) 

According to Middle East scholar E.M.Wherry, whose translation of the Koran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Baal, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabrück: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p. 36). 

"In ancient Arabia, the sun-god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars as Alfred Guilluame, the Moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah (op.cit., Islam, p. 7) 

"The name Allah was used as the personal name of the Moon god, in addition to the other titles that could be given to him. 

"Allah, the Moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called 'the daughters of Allah'. These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. 

"The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities" (Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion, Eugene, Oregon, Harvest House Publishers, 1977, pp.50-51). 

The Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend records: 

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Allah" (op.cit., I:61). 

It is a well known fact archaeologically speaking that the cresent moon was the symbol of worship of the Moon god both in Arabia and throughout the Middle East in pre-Islamic times. Archaeologists have excavated numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on the top of the head of the deity to symbolise the worship of the moon-god. Interestingly, whilst the moon was generally worshipped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity. 

In Mesopotamia the Sumerian god Nanna, named Sin by the Akkadians, was worshipped in particular in Ur, where he was the chief god of the city, and also in the city of Harran in Syria, which had close religious links with Ur. The Ugaritic texts have shown that there a moon deity was worshipped under the name yrh. On the monuments the god is represented by the symbol of the crescent moon. At Hazor in Palestine a small Canaanite shrine of the late Bronze Age was discovered which contained a basalt stele depicting two hands lifted as if in prayer to a crescent moon, indicating that the shrine was dedicated to the Moon god. 

The worship of stellar deities, instead of Yahweh, was always a temptation faced by the Israelites (Dt.4:19; Jer.7:18; Am.5:26; Ac.7:43). But Yahweh is at the zenith of the heavens (Job 22:12). 

"The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the Moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah. 

"The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant rôle in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah. 

"The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the Moon god" (op.cit., Morey, p.51). 

History proves conclusively that before Islam came into existence, the Sabbeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god Allah who was married to the sun-goddess. We have also seen that it was a matter of common practice to use the name of the moon-god in personal names in Muhammad's tribe. That Allah was a pagan deity in pre-Islamic times is incontestable. And so we must ask ourselves the question: why was Muhammad's God named after a pagan deity in his own tribe? 

It is an undeniable fact that an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols of the time. The pagans prayed towards Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed. It made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and pray since that is where he was. Since the idol of their Moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed towards Mecca. 

As we have seen, and as is acknowledged amongst all scholars of Middle Eastern religious history, the worship of the moon-god extended far beyond Allah-worship in Arabia. The entire fertile crescent was involved in moon-worship. The data falls neatly in place and we are able therefore to understand, in part, the early success Islam had amongst Arab groups that had traditionally worshipped Allak, the moon-god. We can also understand that the use of the crescent moon as the symbol of Islam, and which appears on dozens of flags of Islamic nations in Asia and Africa, and surmounts minerets and mosque roofs, is a throwback to the days when Allah was worshipped as the moon-god in Mecca. 

Educated Muslims understand these facts only too well—better, in fact, than most Christians. Robert Morey recalls a conversation he once had: 

"During one trip to Washington DC I got involved in a conversation with a Muslim tax driver from Iran. When I asked him, 'Where did Islam obtain its symbol of the crescent moon?' he responded that it was an ancient pagan symbol used throughout the Middle East and that adopting this symbol had helped Muslims to convert people throughout the Middle East. When I pointed out that the word Allah itself was used by the moon-god cult in pre-Islamic Arabia, he agreed that this was the case. I then pointed out that the religion and the Quran of Muhammad could be explained in terms of pre-Islamic culture, customs, and religious ideas. He agreed with this! He went on to explain that he was a university-educated Muslim who, at this point in his life, was attempting to understand Islam from a scholarly viewpoint. As a result, he had lost his faith in Islam. The significance of the pre-Islamic source of the name Allah cannot be overestimated" (op.cit., pp.52-53). 

What is particularly interesting to me personally is seeing the parallels between the evolution of Islam and the Roman Catholic Church, both of which absorbed pagan ideas in order to make converts. Muhammad was not alone in his plagiarisation of other religions. Bogus "Christian" churches have done it too. Those naming the Name of Christ must accept responsibility for similar things. And it is for this reason that this author has renounced all counterfeit forms of Christianity and returned to the original teachings of the Bible and to the true God, Yahweh-Elohim. 

If there is one thing that has been abundantly clear in my study of comparative religions it is this: all the major religions have different concepts of deity. Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu and Buddha are absolutely not the same. In other words, all religions do not worship the same God, only under different names. That is why the use of the word "God" in describing deity is so inadequate and why we must return to the names of these deities to discover what they actually mean in terms of personality and attributes. Ignoring the essential differences which divide world religions is an insult to the uniqueness of world religions. Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is not Allah the god of the Koran, is not Vishnu the god of the Vedas, is not the god of the Buddhists, etc.. As we shall see in a later article, there are fundamental differences between Yahweh and Allah in terms of personal attributes, theology, morals, ethics, soteriology, eschatology, theocracy, and in almost every other respect. They represent two different spiritual worlds. And when we discover even more of the nature of Yahweh through the revelation of Yah'shua (Jesus) we see that the gap between the Bible and the Koran is even wider. 

I shall conclude this article with more evidence concerning the true origin of the deity which has been incorporated into Islam as Allah.


Archaeology of the Moon-God

Muslims worship a deity called Allah and claim that the Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God, Yahweh, of the patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. 

Ahmed Deedat, well-known Muslim apologist, argues that Allah is a biblical name for God on the basis of "Allelujah" which he convolutes into "Allah-lujah" (What is His Name?, Durban, SA: IPCI, 1990, p.37). This only reveals that he does not understand Hebrew, for haleluyah is the contracted form of Yahweh, YAH, preceded by the verb "to praise" (literally, Praise Yah(weh)!). His other "biblical" arguments are equally absurd. he also claims that the word "Allah" was never corrupted by paganism. "Allah is a unique word for the only God . . . you cannot make a feminine of Allah", says Deedat. But what he does not tell his readers is that one of Allah's daughters was named "Al-Lat", which is the feminine form of "Allah"! 

The issue here is therefore seen to be one of CONTINUITY for the Muslim's claim of continuity (from Judaism to Christianity to Islam) is essential in their attempt to convert Jews and Christians. If "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. 

Religious claims often come to grief as a result of solid scientific, archaeological evidence. Sp, instead of endlessly speculating about the past, we can look to science to see what the evidence reveals. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the moon-god who was married to the sun-goddess and the stars were his daughters. 

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most widespread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the moon-god. It was even the religion of the patriarch Abraham before Yahweh revealed Himself and commanded him to leave his home in Ur of the Chaldees and migrate to Canaan. 

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the moon-god throughout the Middle East (see the artistic reconstruction above based on museum artifacts, wall paintings found in ruined cities, etc. in ancient Mesopotamia). From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most widespread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the moon-god. Note the boxed pre-Islamic Crescent-and-Star glyph of the Anatolian mural from Karum below.  

The Sumerians, in the first literate civilization, left thousands of clay tablets describing their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjöberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a moon-god who was called by many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen, and Asimbabbar (Mark Hall, A Study of the Sumerian Moon-god, Sin, PhD., 1985, University of Pennsylvania). His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favourite name for this deity (Austin Potts, The Hymns and Prayers to the Moon-god, Sin, PhD., 1971, Dropsie College, p.2). As Professor Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites" (op.cit., p.4).    

Karum2
This pre-Islamic crescent moon and star is from the same location.

Pre-Islamic and Islamic Crescent-and-Star Glyphs
Anatolian (left), Islamic (centre), Ancient Persian Moon-goddess (right).
In ancient Syria and Canna, the moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times, the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasise all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Ishtar was the daughter of Sin (Ibid., p.7). 

Egyptian moonRas Shamra moonSacrifices to the moon-god are described in N. Syria's Ras Shamra stele (right). In the Ugaritic texts, the moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia (above right), as in Egypt (left), the moon-god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statutes. He was the judge of men and gods.

Throughout the ancient world the symbol of the crescent moon is found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, and so on. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with crescent moon on its forehead, the is the idol worshipped by the children of Israel in the Wilderness of Sin. While Moses was on top of the mountain receiving the Ten Commandments from Yahweh they sank into idolatrous worship of the moon-god, Sin! Such an idol has been found with the body of a calf and a man's head whose forehead bears a crescent inlaid with shells. In Ur, the Ur-Nammu Stele has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon god was the head of gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the moon-god (Ibid, pp.14-21).

    
Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period. A temple of the moon-god was excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon-worship that are now displayed in the British Museum. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the moon-god. An example of the Babylonian moon-god is shown to the right. Note the presence of the crescent. 

In the 1950's a major temple to the moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. Two idols of the moon-god were found. Each was a statue of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved into his chest (below left). The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the moon-god (below right). The worship tablet found at the same sight (left) shows arms outstretched towards the Moon-god here represented by the full moon within the crescent moon. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the daughters of the moon-god. These are illustrated in the collection of photographs (below right).

Hazor2
What about Arabia? As pointed out by Professor Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loathe to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms" (Carleton S. Coon, Southern Arabia, Washington DC, Smithsonian, 1944, p.398). 

During the 19th century, Arnaud, Halevy, and Glaser went to southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qarabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, archaeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F.Albright, Richard Bower, and others excavated sites Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). 

Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them (North Arabian archaeological finds concerning Al-Lat are discussed in: Isaac Rabinowitz, Aramaic Inscriptions of the Fifth Century, JNES, XV, 1956, pp.1-9; Another Aramaic Record of the North Arabian goddess Han'Llat, JNES, XVIII, 1959, pp.154-55; Edward Linski, The Goddess Atirat in Ancient Arabia, in Babylon and in Ugarit: Her Relation to the Moon-god and the Sun-goddess, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, 3:101-9; H.J.Drivers, Iconography and Character of the Arab Goddess Allat, found in Études Preliminaries Aux Religions Orientales Dans L'Empire Roman, ed. Maarten J. Verseren, Leiden, Brill, 1978, pp.331-51). 

The archaeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion in Arabia was the cult of the moon-god. The Old Testament consistently rebuked the worship of the moon-god (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3; II KIngs 21:3,5; 23:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13; Zephaniah 1:5). When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually to the cult of the moon-god. In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last King of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia, as a centre of moon-god worship. Segall stated: "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p. 77). Many scholars have also noticed that the moon-god's name, Sin, is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai", the "wilderness of Sin", and so forth. 

When the popularity of the moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the moon-god. This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. 

Arabian Moon godWilliam BranhamIn 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidah, that she had uncovered a temple of the moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than 21 inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple (see above left). An idol which is probably the moon-god himself was also discovered (see above right). This was later confirmed by other well-known archaeologists (See Richard Le Baron Bower Jr. and Frank P. Albright, Archaeological Discoveries in South Arabia, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1958, p.78ff; Ray Cleveland, An Ancient South Arabian Necropolis, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1965; Nelson Gleuck, Deities and Dolphins, New York, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 1965). 

The find reveals that the temple of the moon-god was active in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. 

According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The God Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon-God" (Coon, Southern Arabia, p.399). 

The moon-god was called al-ilah, the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle has Allah as part of their names. The fact that they were given such names by their parents proves that Allah was the title for the moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Professor Coon says, "Similarly, under Muhammad's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, of Allah, the Supreme Being" (Ibid.). 

This fact answers the questions: "Why is Allah never defined in the Quran?" and "Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" 

Muhammad was raised in the religion of the moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah the moon-god was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in the pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only God. 

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is accept the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." 

This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest"—he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the greatest except in a polytheistic (many gods) context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. 

That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. Thus "Allah" was the moon-god according to the archaeological evidence. 

Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians he said that Allah was their God, too. But both the Jews and the Christians, who worshipped Yahweh, knew better and they rejected his god Allah as a false god. 

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manat (Three Early Christian-Muslim Debates, ed. by N.A.Newman, Hatfield, PA, IBRI, 1994, pp.357, 413, 426). 

Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be . . . a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry" (Ibid., p.719). Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded, "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and the Jews" (Caesar Farah, Islam: Beliefs and Observances, New York, Barrons, 1987, p.28). 

The Arabs worshipped the moon-god as a supreme deity. But that was not biblical monotheism. While the moon-god was greater than all the other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. 

Is it any wonder that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

Conclusion

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc. 

There are four interesting parallels with Islam here: (a) Akhenaton made the male sun-god the one and only god of Egypt, while (b) Muhammad made the male moon-god the one and only god of the Arabs. Neither god remotely resembled the God of the Bible, both being pagan deities borrowed from polytheistic religions. And there is a third parallel: (c) Though technically monotheistic, in practice Akhenaton remained a god himself. Though never calling himself a "god", Muhammad certainly accrued many of the attributes of godly power as we shall see in subsequent articles. Finally, (d) Akhenaton used as a symbol for his god the Ankh Cross consisting of a solar disk atop a Tau cross, whilst Muhammad retained for Islam the pagan crescent moon symbol of the moon-god Allah. 

Is this all a fanciful, far-fetched conclusion? Is all the vast array of scholarly information available on Allah simply a conspiracy by evil Westerners to discredit Islam? Or might what you have read be the truth? Are you honest enough to continue researching the origins of Islam further? And most importantly, are you honest enough to admit that you might be wrong and that the truth about God lies elsewhere? 

My purpose in this article has been simply to examine Islam's roots and to see if the "official version" is believable. May Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the biblical prophets, whose compound redemptive Name is Lord Jesus Christ, bless and you guide you in the way of truth. Amen.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. 

The religion of ancient Israel was based on revelation; the Old Testament says that God appeared in diverse places and spoke to the Patriarchs; there they raised altars of undressed stones, called Beth-el—or House of God. Man's sensual imagination soon led him "to collect his gods in the dust and fashion them as he pleased," imagining that God resided in these Stones. Thus it became Beth-aven or House of Vanity. Beth-el abounded in Chaldea, Asia, Egypt, Africa, Greece, in remote parts of Europe, among the Druids, Gauls, and Celto-Scythians, and in North and South America. 

In the Hebrew language, stones fallen from the sky are called Bethel (Heb. "House of God"). After dreaming of a ladder reaching to heaven, Jacob called his stone pillow a Bethel-stone (Genesis 28:10-22). 

"The Pagans imitated the Beth-el of Jacob and consecrated them with oil and blood, making them gods, calling them Betyles (betylus, baetyl, betyles). In classical antiquity a stone, either natural or artificially shaped, venerated as of divine origin, or as a symbol of divinity. There were a number of these sacred stones in Greece, the most famous being on the omphalos at Delphi. Likewise there were the so-called animated or oracular stones. "Strabo, Pliny, Helancius (Hellanicus) or Beth-al-Jupiter, Cybele, Venus, Mithras). The greater part of the natural Betyles were the black meteorites or fire-balls fallen from the heavens and regarded by the Sabeists as heavenly divinities. These meteorites were the Cabiri, and the Pelasgi—whose most noted worshippers were wandering or dispersed men" (The Trail of the Serpent, by Inquire Within, Boswell Publishing Co., Limited, London (1936) p. 10). 

Meteorites-cults are common in Greco-Roman civilizations. According to the religious historian Mircea Eliade, the Temple of Artemis (Diana) at Ephesus contained a squat statue of the mother-goddess, carved from a meteorite that fell from Jupiter (Acts 19:26-35). The Palladium of Troy and the conic black stone or (Baetyl) of Elagabal in Emesa, Syria, are believed to be of meteoric origin. Likewise, the Phrygian mother goddess Cybele worshipped in Pessinus (later Rome) was a stone; doubtless a meteorite. A further example is the meteorite of Pessinunt in Phrygia, which was worshipped as "the needle of Cybele," brought to Rome in a powerful procession after the Punic war on advice from the Delphic oracle; there the meteorite was worshipped as a fertility goddess for further 500 years. 

Hadschar al Aswad"The most famous of all of the stone fetishes of Arabia was, of course, the black stone in the sanctuary of Mecca. The Kabah was, and still is, a rectangular stone structure. Built into its Eastern corner is the black stone which had been an object of worship for many centuries before Mohammed appropriated the Kabah for his new religion, and made the pilgrimage to this holy place one of the pillars of Islam" (Mohammed: The man and his faith, Tor Andrae, 1936, Translated by Theophil Menzel, 1960, p. 13-30; Britannica, Arabian Religions, p. 1059, 1979). The "Hadschar al Aswad" in the Kabah is the most well known example of meteorite worship in newer times. Despite the prohibition of portraying God and adoration of objects, pilgrims to Mecca kiss this "Hadschar al Aswad" (black stone) which, according to the prophet is "Yamin Allah" (the right hand of God), supposedly a divine meteorite or Bethel-stone predating creation that fell at the feet of Adam and Eve. It is presently embedded in the southeastern corner of the Kabah. Muslims touch and kiss the black stone during Hajj. moongod.htm 

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Interesting quote above:

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name . . . corresponding to the Babylonian Bel" (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326). 

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:/ I'd take what 'Dr' Robert A. Morey says about Islam and its origins with a large pinch of salt. For a start, the picture of a statue of the moon god isn't established to be anything of the sort. The picture is what set off my BS meter and prompted me to check him out. Those that have analyzed his 'scholarship' have found that he seems to make stuff up or cobble together a variety of mined (mis)quotes that don't actually support his claims.

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Reply To Robert Morey's Moon-God Allah Myth: A Look At The Archaeological Evidence

 

Quote

 

Conclusions

Morey claims to have conducted groundbreaking research on the pre-Islamic origins of Islam. However, on the basis of his poorly edited popular level book, there is a substantial lack of evidence to support this assertion. In fact, there is a considerable amount of evidence to conclude quite the opposite.

Morey claimed that "Allah" of the Qur'an was in fact a pagan Arab "Moon-god" of pre-Islamic times. To support his viewpoint, he presented elaborate evidences from an archaeological site in Hazor, Palestine, and the Arabian "Moon temple" at Hureidha in Hadhramaut, Yemen. An examination of these two evidences confirms that none of them support the view that Allah was the "Moon-god" of pre-Islamic times. The evidence from Hazor suggests that the interpretation of the statue of a man with an inverted crescent suspended from his necklace and holding a cup-like object in his right hand, which Morey labelled as "Moon-god", is disputed among the scholars. This statue could be of a deity, king or priest. None of the scholars, however, say that the statue represents a "Moon-god", let alone the statue representing Allah!

As for the "Moon temple" at Hureidha in Hadhramaut, it was a claim of G. Caton Thompson which Morey dutifully repeated. The name of the Hadramitic patron deity according to the epigraphic evidence is sin.gif and it is transcribed as SYN, which Thompson transcribed as Sin. Modern scholarship rejects this view on the basis of South Arabian orthography and the testimony of the Natural History of Pliny which points to a vocalization Sayīn. Furthermore, the numismatic evidence from Hadramaut shows that Sayīn appears as an eagle, a solar animal, and this clearly points to him as being the Sun god. Coupled to this is the fact that none of the inscriptions say that Sayin was a Moon-god. Morey also claimed that G. Caton Thompson discovered an "idol which may be the Moon-god himself" and that this "was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists". We have shown that Thompson did nothing of the sort; as to how "well-known archeologists" can confirm something that Thompson never claimed is a mystery to everyone. Rather Morey concocted the evidence to fit his pre-conceived notion that Allah was a "Moon-god".

Morey's deception is also clearly highlighted by the numerous misquotes. An examination of the actual quotes suggests that none of them say what Morey is claiming they say. Certainly, none of them say that Allah was a "Moon-god". In conclusion, Morey set us up with a case which we could not lose. Instead, he has cast his own credibility into doubt by penning a shoddy piece of pseudo-scholarship. Recently, however, there are signs that some Christian missionaries, especially those tentmakers involved in field work in Muslim dominated areas have discovered that this form of untruthful argumentation is hampering their presence and is operating as a counter-balance against their missionizing efforts. Such was the seriousness of the situation, members of the missionary communities were compelled to write articles to disprove such speculative and fallacious theories, attempting to consolidate and strengthen the strategies already in place for evangelizing Muslims.

Morey's book will be remembered as one of the worst examples of published Christian missionary polemics and will join those category of books attempting to disparage Islam at the expense of objective cogent scholarship. In general, it will be observed that on numerous occasions Morey has resorted to forgery, deception, suppression of evidence and deliberate misquotation. When these fatal academic flaws are combined with his established inability to consistently cite references in an accurate manner, Morey's argument is left in tatters. Such are the extent of the factual inaccuracies in his book that one would be flabbergasted if it had been read by anyone else prior to publication.

[...]


 

 

 

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On 7/29/2016 at 6:01 PM, admin said:

 

Interesting quote above:

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name . . . corresponding to the Babylonian Bel" (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326). 

 

I can't find that quote in this encyclopedia. Can you?

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Anyway, Bel just means 'Lord' or 'Master.' Allah is related to El which means 'god' or 'deity.'

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I have read so many books by the earliest and some of the modern archeologists (I had a massive collection of books and had to leave a few behind when I moved to Sweden) about the connection of moon worship to ancient Sumer and the entire middle east - even in Canaan.  I later read the Qur'an, Hadith and Siri  and studied Islam because all the original evidence pointed to this moon worship when I read about Ur and Harran and Tema in Arabia. This is how I started studying the Arabic language and I now preach in the Arabic field - mostly to muslim refugees.

I speak the truth when I say that I absolutely love Arabic speaking people but I also promote TRUTH and I therefore have a desire to free as many people as possible from one of the most oppressive and unjust ideologies/religions around today - which had its origins in pagan and moon worship.

I am sorry to say that in the academic world it has become fashion to bend the research to deny that Allah is in fact the moon god. In fact, most of the middle east departments of most universities in Europe and USA has been taken over by Islamo-philiacs who turn out  fake studies that deny the core beliefs of islam as set out in the Qur'an and Hadith.

In fact, one is not allowed to say anything about Allah and Islam any more because Resolution 18-20 of the UN forbids it! Hence the popularity of the word: Islamophobia.  I watch all the news about developments in this field because Islam is part of Babylon the Great and will soon be destroyed.  30,000 terror attacks that has taken place all over the world since 9/11 and many have not been reported as Islam-inspired attacks in the media because left-politicians want their vote!.  It is the world's largest religion and is riding the beast (just as other religions are controlling the political systems).  Soon the political system will tire of religion and turn against all of them..... because the "security" of the world is being threatened by the radicalized version of most religions - which  is spreading. Far right Christians, who love their guns, voted for Trump!

UNESCO (UN heritage council) has gone so far that they have officially said that Jews and Christians have NO historical connection to Jerusalem! at all!  The historical records that exist to prove this -  are no longer valid!  Look it up on internet and this is definitely not false news!

This is how nutty and crazy the world has become.  But I do not need archeology to prove the connection of the Arabs with Moon worship, here is the biblical proof:  The Bible talks of Ishmael. The mother of Ishmael was Egyptian and Ishmael married an Egyptian woman according to the bible.  Midian and Ishmael were both offspring of Abraham and they sold Joseph to Potiphar in Egypt. They were merchants that moved in caravans. 

Midianites and the Ishmaelite's are mentioned in the Bible as being very close (read Ishmaelite in the insight book)  The 6 sons that Keturah had also intermarried with these tribes and eventually became the Arab peoples.  Keturah was the concubine of Abraham after Sarah died.  She had 6 sons. (Gen 25)  Abraham sent them away with gifts and his son Isaac (by his legitimate wife Sarah) inherited the right to bring forth the messiah from his line of decent.... which would be the true prophet/ messenger of Allah  -  because Jesus  has a genealogy of 4025 years.

Mohammad, who claimed to come from Ishmael, has NO historical genealogy to speak of except the short one given in the bible. So he is THE messenger of god only by his own word.  Mohammad claimed to come from Ishmael to try to legitimize his decent from Abraham and link himself as the last prophet from God - especially when he lived with 3 Jewish tribes in Jathrib (Medina) and wanted them to accept his as a prophet.  He killed between 600-900 of them (as spies) after they rejected his prophet hood.  Muslims today try to claim the Bible has been altered and that Jehovah is ALLAH. (This I can easily refute by the history of islam, the history of the city of Mecca as well as the Bible itself.)

What is interesting is the jewelry worn by the Ishmaelites and Midianites.... and many scriptures in the bible indicate that these peoples were viewed as one tribe because these two names are interchanged often. Judges 8: 22 & 26 speaks of the gold nose rings and the "crescent-shaped" ornaments which seemed to be numerous.  These crescent -shaped ornaments are mentioned in 3 different places in the bible and are two of them specifically associated with Midian and Ishmael. The other scriptures proves how prevalent this worship was in the middle east as Jehovah shows how he hates it.

Moses also wrote in Job 31: 26-28 that it was an act of idolatry to kiss the hand to the moon because this practice was prevalent already in the time of Moses/Job  amongst moon worshipers. Job lived in the land of Uz (Arabia).

 

Another proof about moon worship is the Qur'an itself: I forgot to add information about the fatwah (order to kill) against indian writer: Salman Rushdie.  He wrote in his book about he Satanic verses which refer to Allat, Uzza and Manat:

(Excerpt from Wikipedia for your information:) "[V]ehement protest against Rushdie's book" began with the title itself. The title refers to a legend of the Prophet

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, when a few verses were supposedly spoken by him as part of the
    Hello guest!
, and then withdrawn on the grounds that
    Hello guest!
had sent them to deceive Mohammad into thinking they came from
    Hello guest!
. These "
    Hello guest!
" are found in verses eighteen to twenty-two in suraht An-Najim of the Qur'an,
    Hello guest!
and by accounts from Tabari, but is seldom mentioned in the first biography of Mohammad by
    Hello guest!
. The verses also appear in other accounts of the prophet's life. They permitted prayer to three pre-Islamic
    Hello guest!
goddesses:
    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
, and
    Hello guest!
—a violation of
    Hello guest!
.
    Hello guest!

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22 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am sorry to say that in the academic world it has become fashion to bend the research to deny that Allah is in fact the moon god.

The 'research' that allegedly says Allah is the moon god is apparently bogus, as indicated above. Or do you know of an archaeological 'smoking gun' that directly links them? I only saw in your post hops, skips and wide jumps to tenuous connections between crescent shaped trinkets which were the fashion among some ancient Semitic civilizations and to some modern-day, controversial, work of fiction. 

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If archbishops haven't even read the Qur'an and study the Hadith they will have interfaith religious meetings that we have been in the news lately. They do not have a clue what they are dealing with!   But we will see in the time of the end what religions are approved by Jehovah and which are not.

These Christian leaders do have their own agenda's and it is mostly political...... It is not in vogue at present to criticize this religion as it is deemed "hate speech" and I bet you will not get money for research if you are not part of the establishment at middle-eastern departments of universities - as I said before.  One is naive if you think that universities are all science and no agenda.  It has been proven too many times in the last few years - on most scientific fronts.

.It is not smart to reject a large body of work done by many scholars over more than a hundred and forty years for the researcher that you quoted above -  who tells you what you want to hear.  It is your choice.

What about the connected history if Ishmael (who Mohammad connected himself to)  with half moon crescents!  ... in the bible... You call it 'trinkets' ...  but most archeology scientists first look in the trash of civilizations to find the "trinkets" or pottery shards with pictures or symbols on, to try to understand the culture?  This is a major part of archeology!

Why the moon and stars on their flags and the moon on their minarets?  And what about the verse (which is left out of modern qur'ans) which refer to Allah and his three daughters?  If ever there is a smoking gun it is in their own writings ... apart from all the other ideas which Mohammad picked up from other religions as a merchant traveler selling slaves.. 

The reason why they leave this out is because is proves where the religion originated- it is permitted deceit - if you know what this is in Islam.

They believe all Christians are idolaters because they believe in the Trinity and kiss statues like Mary and Jesus and have a cross on their churches but yet they kiss the black stone when they do the Hajj,  their entire religion was an adaption of a pagan religion (even the rituals are) and they have crescent on their mosques and flags etc.

As the brother above demonstrated in the research he quoted - the names of their God was quoted in Mohammad's father's name and most of his friends.... just like Belshazzar and Nebuchadnezzar had the name of their god quoted in their name.

So what kind of a scientist are you quoting?

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On 2/8/2017 at 6:04 PM, Arauna said:

These "

    Hello guest!
" are found in verses eighteen to twenty-two in suraht An-Najim of the Qur'an,
    Hello guest!
and by accounts from Tabari, but is seldom mentioned in the first biography of Mohammad by
    Hello guest!
. The verses also appear in other accounts of the prophet's life. They permitted prayer to three pre-Islamic
    Hello guest!
goddesses:
    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
, and
    Hello guest!
—a violation of
    Hello guest!
.

I assume a lot of other people already knew this, but I didn't. Thanks for sharing it. I even have a copy of Satanic Verses on a bookshelf, but never cracked it open.

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11 hours ago, Arauna said:

.It is not smart to reject a large body of work done by many scholars over more than a hundred and forty years for the researcher that you quoted above -  who tells you what you want to hear.  It is your choice.

The researcher was debunking a work because of his shoddy research. You make it out like there is a consensus of scholarship that takes the view that Muslims worship a moon god called Allah. There isn't. It's a smear campaign against Islam propagated by some fundamentalist, evangelical groups.

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

What about the connected history if Ishmael (who Mohammad connected himself to)  with half moon crescents! 

What about it? It doesn't mean Allah was considered a moon god.

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

 ... in the bible... You call it 'trinkets' ...  but most archeology scientists first look in the trash of civilizations to find the "trinkets" or pottery shards with pictures or symbols on, to try to understand the culture?  This is a major part of archeology!

OK. So where is the archaeological evidence for Allah being identified as the moon god?

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

Why the moon and stars on their flags and the moon on their minarets? 

It was inherited and taken over from the Ottoman empire in the middle ages. How do the symbols on a flag prove that Muslims worship the moon god?

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

And what about the verse (which is left out of modern qur'ans) which refer to Allah and his three daughters

What about it? How is this relevant?

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

If ever there is a smoking gun it is in their own writings ...

The smoking gun from their own writings is that Allah cannot be a moon god and that Muslims are not permitted to worship the moon.

"And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to Allah, who created them, if it should be Him that you worship." -

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You said: " There isn't. It's a smear campaign against Islam propagated by some fundamentalist, evangelical groups. "

This sentence informs me you know very little about Islam...... evangelical groups were not around when the first archeologists did research in the middle east - again I refer to great body of work done over 140 years.   Today you will have a hard time to go and do research in Arabia for obvious reasons.......

 

You said in response to the "trinkets" - 

"OK. So where is the archaeological evidence for Allah being identified as the moon god? "  

This sentence above tells me that you do not have much  knowledge about archeology."    

Ancient peoples were very superstitious and carried their "trinkets" with them to ward off evil.  If they carried their trinkets made of "gold"  with them - the logical deduction would be - it had significant meaning. And in ancient times when one had the power to take away another persons symbols of his "gods" - it meant your god was stronger than theirs.

"The smoking gun from their own writings is that Allah cannot be a moon god and that Muslims are not permitted to worship the moon"

If you read the Qur'an you will find that the inconsistencies in the Qur'an is the greatest frustration for someone who is used to the Western way of thinking.  Mohammad wrote as he went along and as things cropped up in his life.  This is why one has to read the Qur'an together with his life history to understand what he was talking about.   Mohammad himself broke 360 idols that were in the Kabbah.  He was trying to get his people away from idol worship (most tribes had many gods and adhered to one of these as their own chief deity - most also worshiped the moon god and his three daughters) but he wanted them to accept the chief God of his tribe as the "only god" and do away with all the "symbols and idols".  This is why he changed the name of his god to
"The Allah" AL- iLAH. which carried the meaning of the 'highest god.'   ... But somehow the symbol of the moon and the stars could not be removed from the collective memory of the tribes - completely.....

The Qur'an was  put together 22 years after Mohammad's death (he could not read and write) and so we have scholars who will prove to you that the Qur'an was a fabrication of his followers... (I personally believe that they definitely tampered with the Qur'an but the main body of sayings came from Mohammad) - but that is another subject.

Also read up about "abrogation".   Certain versus abrogate others.... which is a way of explaining away the inconsistencies.

 

The family of Mohammad originally came from Yemen and brought the black stone with them at about 150 AD.  (This information was not given by the brother above).   They built the Kabbah and it became an important center of worship and trade.  In Yemen his family had lived close to Jewish tribes - so the idea of 'one god' was not alien to his family and some of the 'Sharia laws' are extreme adaptions of the extreme Jewish laws (the Jewish laws which Jesus called  "teachings of men" ).  As a slave trader Mohammad had contact with Catholicism and the Jews and adopted some of their "sayings"   The Zoroastrian belief in the 'Jinn' was already a prevalent belief  - but Mohammad said that Satan was a 'Jinn'.   The idea of prophet hood was not a new idea in his family either...

 

 

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

This sentence informs me you know very little about Islam...... evangelical groups were not around when the first archeologists did research in the middle east - again I refer to great body of work done over 140 years.   Today you will have a hard time to go and do research in Arabia for obvious reasons.......

Vaguely waving your finger around at 140 years' worth of archaeology and saying I'm uniformed tells me nothing. Which archaeological findings directly indicate Allah was considered a moon god by Muslims? Are you able to cite any credible research?

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Ancient peoples were very superstitious and carried their "trinkets" with them to ward off evil.  If they carried their trinkets made of "gold"  with them - the logical deduction would be - it had significant meaning. And in ancient times when one had the power to take away another persons symbols of his "gods" - it meant your god was stronger than theirs.

This also tells me nothing. Where are the links between crescent-shaped trinkets that ancient, pre-Islamic polytheists wore on the one hand, and Allah and moon worship in monotheistic Islam on the other? There is a huge evidential and logical chasm you need to fill here.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you read the Qur'an you will find that the inconsistencies in the Qur'an is the greatest frustration for someone who is used to the Western way of thinking.

So show me the verse in the Quran that is inconsistent with the thoughts in

    Hello guest!
 (also cf.
    Hello guest!
 and 
    Hello guest!
). Does the Quran suggest anywhere that moon worship is OK and that Allah is a moon god?

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Mohammad himself broke 360 idols that were in the Kabbah.  He was trying to get his people away from idol worship (most tribes had many gods and adhered to one of these as their own chief deity - most also worshiped the moon god and his three daughters) but he wanted them to accept the chief God of his tribe as the "only god" and do away with all the "symbols and idols". 

This isn't consistent with your claim about Allah = moon god. If Mohammad was trying to get his people away from idol worship, why make the moon an idol, and why distinguish between the two?

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is why he changed the name of his god to
"The Allah" AL- iLAH. which carried the meaning of the 'highest god.'  

He didn't change god's name. As was mentioned before, Allah is etymologically related to the Semitic El - a generic designation for 'god' or 'deity.' See 

    Hello guest!
. So Al-ilah literally just means 'the God.'

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

But somehow the symbol of the moon and the stars could not be removed from the collective memory of the tribes - completely.....

Of course not. The moon and stars are part of humanity's collective memory. They are constants in the night sky. And the Arabs, incidentally, were phenomenally good astronomers who contributed to our scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Anyway, so far, I've found your arguments for an Allah-moon god identity to be based on little more than thin air, I'm afraid.shrug_zps3532c6bf.gif

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Your opinion is not important to me.... and neither would I waste my time to research items to paste here to debate with you.

Jesus did not answer opposers... he only answered them when it could edify anyone else who was listening.

 

Similarly - I mentioned Ishmael's connection to the "gold' moon crescents (because someone else may see the connection who reads the posts above and has deep respect for the Bible).  Mohammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael to give legitimacy to his prophet hood - so the connection is there  - the connection to the crescent moon. If you do not accept it , it is your prerogative. Halaal food (which Muslims eat) - Halaal refers to the crescent moon too!   The religion has too many links to the moon to be coincidence!

The figurine with the half moon mentioned in the research above - there were many of these found in Arabia!  Not just this one item.   And many of the figurines used in worship had symbols of the deity they represented on them!

I also mentioned that "Al"- means "the" in arabic so the translation is THE god.  Knowing the language helps a lot ..... but one can get a renegade person anywhere who desperately needs to have a published study and he will come up with some far- fetched etymology of "el"  (which is Hebrew) to try to refute it.  This is the level of research these days -  I'm afraid to say!

And there are always people who will go to Wikipedia and look for some obscure researcher who refutes what took someone else years to research!  It is easier to break down that to offer anything new!  

 

 

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Likewise, I do not post on this for your benefit; I post because it's an aid for any interested readers to navigate through fact and fiction, or at least see another perspective. They can form their own conclusions.

On 2/16/2017 at 1:01 PM, Arauna said:

 Halaal food (which Muslims eat) - Halaal refers to the crescent moon too!  

smiley_emoticons_skeptisch_zps00a03aab.g Maybe on your planet. Here on Earth, Halaal just means 'lawful' or 'permissible.'

On 2/16/2017 at 1:01 PM, Arauna said:

I also mentioned that "Al"- means "the" in arabic

You didwelshbikers_scratch_zps485864b2.gif I thought that was the OP and me. I must have missed it.

On 2/16/2017 at 1:01 PM, Arauna said:

... but one can get a renegade person anywhere who desperately needs to have a published study and he will come up with some far- fetched etymology of "el"  (which is Hebrew) to try to refute it.

Who in their right mind would try to claim the Hebrew noun 'el' means 'the'? shakehead_zps888fbc9b.gif

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is not coincidence that the word means permissible and also refers to the moon crescent!

From everything I've seen on this so far, on scholarly sites, well-referenced sites, and pro-Islamic sites, it appears that this idea is merely based on a linguistic confusion from non-Muslims. I found this as the first item that came up in Google when I searched on "crescent moon Islam":

    Hello guest!

The hilal (Star and Crescent moon) does not, in fact represent Islam. It pre-dates Islam by about 2000 years. It appears, for instance, on the seals and decorations of the Moabites, of Israel, at about 1500BC.

In the past, it was most notably used on the flag of the Ottoman Empire - especially its navy:

 

 
main-qimg-57beca6a356556e86e689547bb3079



So, it became emblematic of Islamic power, throughout Europe and beyond, in this period. It remains the symbol on the national flag of Turkey, for this reason.

From this, many other, largely Islamic, countries (especially many of the ones set up in the dissolution of the USSR) included the hilal in their national flags - in the same way that many European nations include the cross. It's sort-of-cultural, but not very significant. Some suggest it represents the lunar month, the period of fasting observed during Ramadan, but if does, the fact that its existence was common place throughout Arabia and across Moghul India, long before Islam, indicates that is an adoption, rather than central to that faith.

Since the 1960s, various Islamist movements have also adopted the hilal (probably because of its Ottoman connotations), and so it is often assumed to be an inherently Islamic symbol.

It is possible that there is confusion over the way its name sounds similar to 'Halal' (lawful), that many Westerners think it is in some way bound up in Islam itself.

 

This is agreed upon by

    Hello guest!
that purport to represent the Islamic faith:

  • On the Ottoman flag was the crescent moon – a symbol the Turks adopted from the city of Constantinople after conquering it. Because the crescent moon was the symbol for the Ottomans, it also became the symbol for Muslims in general for many in the West.
  • It has since been adopted by some Muslim nations – finding its way onto the flags of countries as diverse as Malaysia, Pakistan and Algeria. Although some in the Muslim community reject the crescent moon because it can be seen as a pagan symbol.

 

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This is a good read!  

    Hello guest!

I attach a link to an an article about the connection between the moon god and Allah... and it proves that Allah is NOT Jehovah but the moon god.

Muslims teach that the bible has been changed and that Abraham started the city Mecca and Allah worship on his way to Egypt.... which is ludicrous... because Mecca only came into being AFTER 150 AD and the bible clearly shows that Abraham built an altar to JHWH before going to Egypt and he offered up on the same altar when he came back from Egypt.  Of course, Allah was around 2000 years before Christ but not as a singular deity.  Mohammad tried to distance Allah from his daughters (as indicated in the clip above) and establish The God - Al-ilia as the supreme being because it was the chief deity of his tribe.

This article quotes so many of the old respected archeologists from the 19th and 20th century (ie.Leonard Woolley) - and discusses so many of the archeological finds.....temples to the moon in Arabia!  The reasoning is sound... that Mohammad was not preaching a new god to them... they already knew this god!... However, he wanted them to leave the previous 'connections' of the moon god and all the other deities they were serving.

Islam has tried very hard to hide its connections to moon worship but one of my elderly bible students (if they are older Muslims) know of this. Modern apologists of course also try to hide this fact.  Many of the rituals etc. come from pagan worship.

Since islam originated from fertility worship of the moon it is not therefore surprising that there are many disgusting sexual practices in Islam:  They view Mohammad as the "perfect man" the "perfect example."  Here is just one of them practiced in Shiia Islam.  (

 

 

It is a well-known fact that Mohammad wore female clothes when he received some of his revelations - this was also in line with pagan worship.... it was not viewed as immoral.  There was an incident where his other wives claimed that they were not receiving their "due" and Mohammad chastised them and said that he receives his "revelations" when he is with Aisha, dressed in female clothes.  This is according to Hadith.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Islam has tried very hard to hide its connections to moon worship but one of my elderly bible students (if they are older Muslims) know of this. Modern apologists of course also try to hide this fact.  Many of the rituals etc. come from pagan worship.

15 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

So, all evidence that man claims, is inconsequential with what is written in scripture.

It's pretty obvious, as Allen has indicated, that we have to be very careful with what we call "established fact" when it's about evidence that one group claims in order to claim superiority over another group.

15 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

In analyzing the beliefs of the Harranians as reported in the literature, we must be careful to distinguish the nature of these sources. Muslim material on Harran is wildly contradictory,

I'm reminded that there are hundreds of nearly identical examples in scholarly religious discussion about the Hebrew God, Jehovah/YHWH and much of it based on artifacts and linguistic evidence. Furthermore, much of the scholarship on these sources of Biblical/Jewish/Hebrew religion is not from antagonistic sources, but the majority from Jewish and Christian sources.

The name Jehovah itself has been linked to many pagan sources. This doesn't mean it's true. There were also false gods and fables that spread throughout the Near East and apparently gave the Hebrews many of their words for things that other nations worshipped. There are connections between the festival for Esther and the moon. The Hebrew word for the Sun matches the Babylonian Sun-God. The same goes for many other words. This continues in the Greek Scriptures with words from the Greeks like Hades and Tartarus.

The sun-moon-stars motif is also found in the Bible, if Israel, and :

  • (Genesis 37:9, 10) . . .“I have had another dream. This time the sun and the moon and 11 stars were bowing down to me.” Then he related it to his father as well as his brothers, and his father rebuked him and said to him: “What is the meaning of this dream of yours? Am I as well as your mother and your brothers really going to come and bow down to the earth to you?”

That doesn't mean that the Jews were steeped in Moon worship. Yet, some people think that this motif (where the sun, moon and stars represented Israel) is reflected in Jesus prophecy about the destruction of the Jewish system of things, when Jerusalem was to be destroyed in 70 C.E., and again when Revelation speaks of Jesus as having been born out of the nation of Israel as heir to Messianic kingship:

  • (Matthew 24:29) . . ., the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven. . .
  • (Revelation 6:12, 13) . . .and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. [the fig tree was a symbol Jesus had used for Israel]
  • (Revelation 12:1, 2) . . .A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars, and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth. [compare the Genesis quote above about 11 stars instead of 12]

And while there are suppositions about how the sources of Muslim culture and practice are related to fertility, Jehovah is depicted in our own Bible as demanding one of the most significant fertility rites of all. Jehovah was the one who said that the rite of circumcision was directly related to fertility and nothing else. (Genesis 17:1-9)

Also, we have to be careful about assigning the same value to various hadith and oral traditions to the entire Muslim faith. Some of the Muslim fundamentalist cults (like the entire country of Saudi Arabia) select certain of these traditions and give these portions the same weight of the Koran. Most Muslim scholars reject this practice, even if the hadith supposedly says something true about Muhammad himself.

Remember that we also reject much of the "Bible" writings that Catholicism accepts. We call it apocryphal and don't include it in the Bible. The Jews have a huge body of oral traditions, too. And it's embarrassing to read these Jewish writings and find highly respected rabbis discussing whether whether the Bible indicates that it's OK to have sex with a child at age 3, or whether they should wait until age 8 or 9.

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is a good read!  

    Hello guest!

I attach a link to an an article about the connection between the moon god and Allah... and it proves that Allah is NOT Jehovah but the moon god.

Umm ... this is what Kurt opened this thread with. We've just been discussing some of its claims! banghead_zps1504bfd1.gif

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Islam has tried very hard to hide its connections to moon worship

To hide a connection, you first have to establish a connection. A connection between Allah-worship and moon-god-worship has not been established. Therefore, there is no connection to hide.

 

As an aside, Allen mentioned Dagan and an alleged identification as a fish-god. A reputable academic summary on Dagan is at 

    Hello guest!
. Please note: "A 4th century AD tradition which places Dagan as a fish deity is erroneous (
    Hello guest!
: 56)."

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    Hello guest!
  - Sumerian moon god that spread through the entire middle east.

This is from the time of Nimrod - BEFORE Abraham and before Israel became a nation.  Hence the name 'Sin'ai (in Arabia -when Israel came out of Egypt as a nation).   1500 years later we see Nabonidus  (Nebuchadnezzar's grandson) building a temple to the moon god in Arabia - so moon worship was still as strong and insidious as ever!  As I said before - the body of archeology from the Sumerian and Babylonian time is huge and cannot be denied -  the worship dispersed as far as Greece. Each area developed their own version of the same god.

I read your contributions above and you guys carry on like you are scholars arguing back and forth (cherry picking the ideas you like) and not giving any clarity to anyone! ... the reason being is that you are keeping the Bible out of it and just debating for sake of debating..

As I said before in this forum - when Nimrod and his family turned away from Jehovah they had to fill the void and started a system of spiritism which turned to predictions and superstition inspired by Satan.  There were seven planets in out Solar system clearly visible to them (moon & sun) and the billions of stars.  Ancient Babylon mathematics became so advanced because they originated the Zodiac and the gods developed from the worship of moon, sun, planets and the zodiac - stars.  Moon, sun and star worship was everywhere and they did all their predictions on the movement of the planets.  Hence we find that most temples/ placement of stones/ high places etc.  in ancient Egypt and (over the world) were designed to favor the stars at certain times of the year /equinoxes etc-  read up about the pyramids all over the world!

This is what the high religious class did all the time - watch the 'heavens' and they wanted to be close to the "heavens' with their high buildings to predict when the king could go to war and when he could blow his nose.  This made for a very superstitious society and 'spells' and all kinds of nasty things related to spiritism.

I come from Africa - I know what spiritism looks like - it is nasty and one can be 'educated' but the practice of this keeps one hooked onto needless 'rituals and fears' - as all these religions were.  Many of these western scholars  make me laugh when they come up with their silly ideas sometimes.  They live in secluded little worlds and become big frogs in small ponds (academics) but have not seen the real thing!  Especially when they start going into denial of what their eyes see because they want it to be different and make a name for themselves.

Study ancient Sumerian culture (the predecessor to Babylonian, Assyrian, Arabian, Indian and even Egyptian belief systems) most of the worlds religions originated there!  Each scholar studies their little pocket of history and do not see the big picture.

Most of all - study the Bible!   I studied the Bible from the aspect of "intrinsic logic" and a whole new world opened up to me!   The name of Jehovah -  a name he chose for himself - was for a specific reason!   All other gods were given their name by humans but Jehovah chose his name himself because it had a specific meaning - it is not just a name!

"I am what I am"  - this translation is a travesty!  Because in all Semitic languages it is already accepted  that you exist. One does not get the word "is" in present tense in these languages!     So when the word "is" is used, it is usually in past tense "was" or in future it is "causative".    So the verb related to his name shows that "he shall prove to be" - by his causative actions! 

Some brilliant person just by chance stumbled on this name? or by chance it developed by a group of people from  a few letters someone started to use?  ... and other people said .... he has a good idea ... let ALL of us start using these letters too?  .... Really?  You believe this "research?" 

Well real life is not like that.  After Israel had been through so many miracles  (saved by Jehovah in Egypt) their uncircumcised hearts were stupidly going back to what they knew before - and we have proof in the Bible that Jehovah had to chastise them harshly, on several occasions, even by death (when they kept on going back to their own gods or rebelled) to get them to obey him to be forged into a single nation and only serving only HIM.  (Those who died are in sheol - so they probably will get a resurrection).  

At the time Jehovah intervened in mankind's affairs to bring forth part of his purpose - to create a nation, clean and dedicated to him for his son to be born in future and provide a genealogy of 4025 years (from Adam to Jesus) - so He had to deal with the constant rebellion of the Israelites - and not tolerate rebellion when it went past a certain level.  This is how they became a nation dedicated to him and his name.   It took a lot of effort from Jehovah to guide and chastise them to take this name as the only god - even after they had seen the fire cloud by night and many miracles!

So I take exception to those saying that Jehovah's name came from "evolution " of letters or other names!

 

 

 

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On 2/25/2017 at 2:13 AM, Arauna said:

Many of these western scholars  make me laugh when they come up with their silly ideas sometimes.  They live in secluded little worlds and become big frogs in small ponds (academics) but have not seen the real thing!  Especially when they start going into denial of what their eyes see because they want it to be different and make a name for themselves.

This sounds like an excellent description of the "scholarship" of Alexander Hislop, and a lot of other sloppy scholars who rely on him and people like him. Recently I quoted a person who had based his books on Hislop's "scholarship" and was making money off of it (The Two Babylons). After years of additional research, he realized it was "fake news" and rejected it, even though it meant a loss of money and fame for himself. He received all kinds of accusations, almost the equivalent of death threats just because he could no longer use fake scholarship in good conscience.

The Watch Tower also stopped using his fake scholarship many years ago, but it is still popular on the Internet because it fits what a lot of people want to believe.

On 2/25/2017 at 2:13 AM, Arauna said:

You believe this "research?"

All I am saying is that we need to be very careful before accepting so-called research just because it fits preconceived ideas or appears to be partly true. If you are referring to research that Allen quoted, you should know that in the past he has quoted much research that he later claimed he did not believe in or which turned out not to be supportive of the idea he apparently thought it was defending. 

 

On 2/24/2017 at 9:47 PM, AllenSmith said:

Yahweh is given the titles ’ēl or ba‘al, or is called “the Sun,” or is attributed their features. The word addition may also be applied to the incorporation of distinctly different attributes within Yahweh. Both solar and storm language are attributed to Yahweh in different passages and even within the same units. Similarly, Yahweh embodies both male and female, both El and Asherah.

I don't think that Allen is really saying he believes that Yahweh as a name is associated with the Sun (Shemesh is sun in Hebrew and Shamash is the name of the Mesopotamian/Babylonian Sun god.) Nor is the name itself applied in order to embody both male and female traits, as Allen quoted above. Perhaps Allen was quoting this portion for additional context. But either way, it shows what I was saying before: that we need to be very careful in our acceptance of scholarship and research.

Almost every bit of "research" that has been claimed of Muslim religion has a similar scholarly corollary in the way research shows us that Hebrew religion was practiced. Monotheism was a difficult thing for ancient peoples. Egypt tried it for a while too, and reverted. Jehovah blessed Israel as a holy nation to the extent that they maintained monotheism in his name.

Linguistically, there appears to be more evidence that the Arabic "allah" is from "al-ilah" (the God) -- also see, Aramaic "ʼĔlāhā", and Hebrew "Eloah" (70 times in the Bible). "Eloah" is used the same as the same as Aramaic "Elah." And "ilah" (Arabic for god or God) is traceable, therefore, to the same word for God found in the Aramaic portions of Daniel. When Hebrew puts the word "the" in front of it, it implies "the only true God." (Psalm 18:32, for example) This is exactly the purpose of Arabic putting the word "the" in front of it so that "al-ilah" means the only true God. The contracting of "Al-ilah" to "Allah" is a very common form of contraction that happens with other similar words. Words, over time, are contracted very similarly in Hebrew and English, too, of course.

Christian Arabs today have no other word for God but Allah. What word does the Arabic Watchtower use for God? Before Islam even existed, Arab-speaking Christians used the word "Allah" as the word for God -- for 500 years before Muhammad was born.

 

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I say " ilah" when I speak about god but it has become common among Christian Arabs to use Al Lah - which actually means "
the god" and has become so common everywhere.    It is almost as though it has become a higher form when speaking about god.  The reason why Arab Christians use Allah is because they deny the name of Jehovah - which is sad.  Sometimes it is harder to speak to them than to Muslims because they love their idol worship and will tell you directly that they want nothing to do with you because JWs do not worship Mary.  They see Mary as interceding for women and Jesus as interceding for men..  I was flabbergasted when I had a long discussion with a very religious Greek orthodox man and I gave him a good chance to explain to me where Mary fits in in his church!

I try to avoid Muslims greetings and stick to marxaba / aHlan was Sahlan instead of Salaam Alaykum and should consciously only stick to Jehwah Ilah (Jehovah God).  I also do not use the word Isa for Jesus but use Jeshua because Isa is a character who will come back and bow to Mohammad after he has fought the one-eyed jew - the antichrist (Dajjal) and his Jewish followers in battle.    

 

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15 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Sometimes it is harder to speak to them than to Muslims because they love their idol worship and will tell you directly that they want nothing to do with you because JWs do not worship Mary.  They see Mary as interceding for women and Jesus as interceding for men..  I was flabbergasted when I had a long discussion with a very religious Greek orthodox man and I gave him a good chance to explain to me where Mary fits in in his church!

That's interesting. I read recently that a lot of Muslims are confused about the Christian God because they think he that he is supposed to be a Trinity of the "Father, Son and Mary" and that this has made Muslims think of "Allah" as a kind of name for God that distinguishes Allah from the Christian God. Therefore, on the Muslim side of this equation, several of them have this exact same argument, some saying that Allah just means "the true God" therefore the same as the Abrahamic "God" of the Jews, and others insisting that it must be a different, or even higher name for God. Some have even shown concern for the plural "elohim" in Hebrew, and of course, all of them reject the plural "Trinity" in nominal Christianity.

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I say " ilah" when I speak about god but it has become common among Christian Arabs to use Al Lah - which actually means "
the god" and has become so common everywhere.    It is almost as though it has become a higher form when speaking about god.  The reason why Arab Christians use Allah is because they deny the name of Jehovah - which is sad.  Sometimes it is harder to speak to them than to Muslims because they love their idol worship and will tell you directly that they want nothing to do with you because JWs do not worship Mary.  They see Mary as interceding for women and Jesus as interceding for men..  I was flabbergasted when I had a long discussion with a very religious Greek orthodox man and I gave him a good chance to explain to me where Mary fits in in his church!

I try to avoid Muslims greetings and stick to marxaba / aHlan was Sahlan instead of Salaam Alaykum and should consciously only stick to Jehwah Ilah (Jehovah God).  I also do not use the word Isa for Jesus but use Jeshua because Isa is a character who will come back and bow to Mohammad after he has fought the one-eyed jew - the antichrist (Dajjal) and his Jewish followers in battle.    

 

Interesting.

I had an uncle who was a Christian Arab, but I never knew what he believed as I was only little at time.

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I sometimes watch how Imams preach (online in various countries).  They often preach politically against the West.  They say all Christians are vile -  highly immoral (rampant adultery, fornication,  etc) because anything is allowed and women are free without wearing the hijab.  They believe all Christians are idol worshippers because of the use of images and icons in the church and the kissing of statues etc. And believe that the cross is a pagan symbol (Isa will destroy it in the end of time) and also the trinity is a gross misrepresentation of god because God is almighty and only one!   So Christians are the worst of idolaters, except for the polytheists (India) - they are worse.  Jesus was not the son of god because god did not have sex to bring forth a son and the death of Jesus is a lie!

So when I meet them I tell them that we do not participate in pagan traditions, no statues, idolatry of any kind.  We believe that God is ONE and Jesus is not God.  I also say that we are witnesses of Jehovah and totally different to other Christian religions.  We read the bible daily and therefore obey the bible completely and I add that the above false doctrines do not come from the bible but are pagan doctrines.  I demonstrate how all false religions have a history of violence and war and that Satan was very "smart when he created all the "false " religions which love violence and war - to confuse people. We are pure and clean and do not allow any form of idolatry.  Sometimes I mention that we do not celebrate Xmas, Easter, birthdays etc... and sexually clean!

Next I talk about the government of Jehovah - they also believe in a government and extreme muslims do NOT vote.  So I talk about the way which the government of Jehovah under Jesus as king will come rule and hint at the way that Muslims expect it to come to pass with the "sword."  I then give evidence of the violence in the history of Christians as well as Islam religion and mention that God will bring his government at the time when it is ready for HIM... and not when humans decide to bring the government by fighting (Muslim prophesy).  I also show that Jesus is already ruling invisible in heaven - he is not coming back in the flesh to fight with the sword -  Rev 12: 7- 12 and that his ruler ship began when he threw satan out of heaven and that is why there is such an escalation of violence now - time of the end... This is the sign that the time is short - we need a sign that he is ruling.   I demonstrate that God can read hearts and humans (who cannot read hearts) are not supposed to be judging each as heretics and then execute them (like ISIS) who judge others- even other muslims.  They do not have the right to do God's job for him... they are misled because God is strong enough to do his own job very quickly when the time is right for HIM.   I also show the difference between Sharia Law (which requires blind obedience, one does not have to think much) and the "principals of Jesus...(if one looks at a woman too much you have committed adultery, hate is the same as killing and show that one needs to have self control when one follows the law of self-sacrificing love...inspection of self.  I also show the principles of love in 1Cor 13 - because they only understand love as sexual love and are surprised when one can apply this principled love to ALL relationships.  I read many scriptures so they can see the difference between the Qur'an and the Bible.  They get tears when I read the scriptures on how we should treat each other with tender loving care .... so these are a few of the first things I discuss...  Usually I have a good response... I also have a way to demonstrate that Jesus is a son of god because god has heavenly sons and earthly sons because the word "father means life-giver"  and God is the creator of Jesus and heavenly sons and Adam - earthly son.  He created them (sex did not bring them forth). In this way they are "sons". I like to show the "logic of the bible because the Qur'an is such a mess.

I love this field because it is a challenge but very satisfying because these people think in such a different way than we do... I can go on and on about the differences and how I deal with them....

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1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

JWinsider: If you are referring to research that Allen quoted, you should know that in the past he has quoted much research that he later claimed he did not believe in or which turned out not to be supportive of the idea he apparently thought it was defending.

Once again, a mischaracterization of my intentions. When will you learn? Perhaps you should start blaming your failures of misapplication on scholarly work on yourself instead of trying to push it off on someone else. When I apply; certain works, it’s to show the same line of thought ignorance has embraced.

No mischaracterization at all. I merely stated a fact. And it's a fact that several people on this forum have noticed. It might have been helpful for Aruana to understand that, because right after you posted a lot of research, she asked: "You believe this research?" I assumed you would explain yourself because it was not clear why you posted some of it, and I was pretty sure it was not all research that you believed in yourself. Or as I also said, you may have been using some of it and added some additional research "for context." But at any rate, you certainly haven't made clear what portions of it you believe in and what portions you do not.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Regardless If it's agreeable or not, would be inconsequential since any researcher will read and accept what they want to accept.

If that were the case then they were not really a researcher (if they only read and accept what they want to accept). If a person really is a researcher they will be finding themselves constantly questioning things they have previously accepted. I have finally had to accept many things I didn't want to, but only if there was sufficient evidence against the ideas I had held, and for the idea that came to replace it. And it never means that any of my current ideas are absolutely defined either. Research is a continually humbling experience, because new evidence must always be weighed carefully apart from our preconceived notions. Pride makes us give to much weight to preconceived notions and traditions. But traditions can make the word of God invalid, as Jesus said.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

AllenSmith: Some scholars believe the inert name “Pagan” was derived by the word “Dagan” Fish symbol.

I never saw you or anyone else provide evidence for this. The most likely information I found on the derivation of "Pagan" matches what I see in the Oxford English Dictionary:

pagan, n. and a.

(ˈpeɪgən)

Forms: 4 paygane, 5 pagayne, 5–6 pagane, 5– pagan.

[ad. L. pāgān-us, orig. ‘villager, rustic; civilian, non-militant’, opposed to mīlēs ‘soldier, one of the army’, in Christian L. (Tertullian, Augustine) ‘heathen’ as opposed to Christian or Jewish. The Christians called themselves mīlitēs ‘enrolled soldiers’ of Christ, members of his militant church, and applied to non-Christians the term applied by soldiers to all who were ‘not enrolled in the army’. Cf. Tertullian De Corona Militis xi, ‘Apud hunc [Christum] tam miles est paganus fidelis quam paganus est miles infidelis’. See also Gibbon xxi. note.
Cf. payen.
   The explanation of L. pāgānus in the sense ‘non-Christian, heathen’, as arising out of that of ‘villager, rustic’, (supposedly indicating the fact that the ancient idolatry lingered on in the rural villages and hamlets after Christianity had been generally accepted in the towns and cities of the Roman Empire: see Trench Study of Words 102, and cf. Orosius i Præf. ‘Ex locorum agrestium compitis et pagis pagani vocantur’) has been shown to be chronologically and historically untenable, for this use of the word goes back to Tertullian c 202, when paganism was still the public and dominant religion, and even appears, according to Lanciani, in an epitaph of the 2nd cent.]

If you actually have information on this connection to Dagan by "some scholars" or any scholar, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. Do you have any?

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

So, what you are suggesting like O’Maly is, ONLY your research is worthwhile and acceptable. That’s the funniest thing you’ve said yet.

Actually, as you can see, I didn't say anything about whose research is acceptable, and I have NEVER indicated that only my research is worthwhile and acceptable. Research is usually a process, anyway, not an end in itself. It usually involved comparing evidence with the research of others, which means that by definition, no one in their right mind would ever think that ONLY their own research was valid.

I only indicated that one of the persons who was very well-known for making use of Hislop, and who spent a lot of time trying to validate Hislop ended up seeing his research as "fake" and he also saw first-hand how people went into denial no matter what they saw with their own eyes. This was exactly what Aruana was talking about. I noticed that you didn't requote the part about the Watch Tower dropping their use of Hislop for all the Babylon connections we once used his research to prove. So far, everything I've seen shows that the Watch Tower was correct to "drop" him. I've seen several bits of so-called research from Hislop that is so easy to prove false.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Paraphrasing, Just like an excellent description of the “scholarship” of Carl Olof Jonsson, and a lot of other sloppy scholars who rely on him and people like him.

This is another great example. I didn't accept any of Carl Olof Jonsson's research at first, and when I finally did see it I knew I had to check all the most relevant points for myself. So I ignored his points and conclusions and started on my own.  I spent many days at the NYPL requesting materials from the "stacks." I spent a lot of money in purchased books and photocopying at the library since most of these books were for reference only. I worked in NYC for 25 years, otherwise this would not have been possible. But after I did this for myself, only then could I respect the research he had done, even though, as I have always said, I am NOT a scholar in this area, and it certainly is NOT my specialty. (I only mention that, because I think I remember you claiming the opposite about me once.) 

 

 

 

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On 2/23/2017 at 6:22 PM, AllenSmith said:

Some scholars believe the inert name “Pagan” was derived by, the word “Dagan” Fish symbol.

@AllenSmith Do you have any evidence for this connection between the word "Pagan" and "Dagan"?

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

So nice of you to add this, since you believe the WTS to be in error with their conclusions that COJ refutes as “facts” If your own research concluded the same as COJ then you have made my point.

As you probably know, probably 99% of all Neo-Babylonian scholars who have ever researched the topic of the chronology surrounding the reign of Nebuchadnezzar agree entirely with COJ's research. So it's not specifically COJ's research that I find credible; it's the research of 99% of all Neo-Babylonian scholars. If you have found someone in the 1% whose research you find credible, then by all means present it. It's just that you've had this opportunity several times, and have always, so far, ended up presenting evidence that went against your own claims. After that, you have often tried throwing an "ad hominem" tantrum instead of showing any evidence. Then, I notice that you wait a few weeks or months and either forget what happened, or try to pretend it didn't happen. In spite of these tactics, I'm willing to see you try again. If you think you have evidence this time, please start a new topic.

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Tut... tut....

I tend to see the BIG picture in the study of ancient history.  No society lived in isolation but there was trade and social  interaction going on all the time.  Hence the different forms of Baal worship in areas that were geographically quite close in "moden" terms - if one drives a car. Influences spread fast and very wide!  Like the fashion industry.

Russell started his research just after society had broken away from the power of the church - and while others were shooting each other in the wild west and colonizing the east coast (USA).  They were preparing the way for those who would later become the discreet slave.

Although a great body of work had been done - no one had put it together just like A. Hyslop at that time.  So look at his contribution to society in the time frame it was written - do not look back at it with modern eyes.   Looking at history is like going back in a time capsule.... People who only focus on the small minute details always lose sight of this.

I have marveled at the 'timing' of his writings and wondered if Jehovah did have a hand in it. I think his book came out just at the right time: .....because it helped the future "slave" to clean up many of the pagan things that were accepted as 'Christian' in all of society at that time.  Most societies did not have a clue that some of the things they were practicing were at all from pagan origin. So - to me- it is logical that he lashed out at the Catholic church who had ruled the western world with an iron fist and the history of "her daughters" who broke away from the 'mother of all evils'. 

Many of the researchers in the middle east were German and French .... but here comes a 'pastor' writing in English and putting it in such a way that people started to re-evaluate the "churches" who had so much power in the past. And it is put in the hands of an organization that was determined to spread the "truth" as it became available at that time.

This is why I contend that Hyslop made a valuable contribution because he interpreted things that were out there and put them together in one book where it could be popularized.... and not everything he said can be thrown in the garbage.  

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/25/2017 at 7:13 AM, Arauna said:

I read your contributions above and you guys carry on like you are scholars arguing back and forth (cherry picking the ideas you like) and not giving any clarity to anyone! ... the reason being is that you are keeping the Bible out of it and just debating for sake of debating..

How does the Bible resolve the question of whether Allah is identified as a moon god?

On 2/25/2017 at 7:13 AM, Arauna said:

As I said before in this forum - when Nimrod and his family turned away from Jehovah they had to fill the void and started a system of spiritism which turned to predictions and superstition inspired by Satan. 

This about Nimrod and his family filling a void and starting a new religious system isn't in the Bible. Where did you get that idea from?

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Although a great body of work had been done - no one had put it together just like A. Hyslop at that time.  So look at his contribution to society in the time frame it was written - do not look back at it with modern eyes.  

Modern eyes or not, Hislop produced a work based on false premises, false history, false or tenuous associations, thereby resulting in false conclusions. I'll repost what Hislop's contemporaries thought about his book:

The Saturday Review, Sept. 17, 1859 (

    Hello guest!
):

"We should not have thought it worth while to notice Mr. Hislop's lucubrations if his book had not reached a second edition, and thus revealed the melancholy intellectual condition of a portion at least of the British public. For the sake of this class of readers, it may perhaps not be amiss to state gravely why we dissent from his line of argument.

"In the first place, his whole superstructure is raised upon nothing. Our earliest authority for the history of Semiramis wrote about the commencement of the Christian era, and the historian from whom he drew his information lived from fifteen hundred to two thousand years after the date which Mr. Hislop assigns to the great Assyrian Queen. The most lying legend which the Vatican has ever endorsed stands on better authority than the history which is now made the ground of a charge against it. 

"Secondly, the whole argument proceeds upon the assumption that all heathenism has a common origin. Accidental resemblances in mythological details are taken as evidence of this, and nothing is allowed for the natural working of the human mind.

"Thirdly, Mr. Hislop's reasoning would make anything of anything. By the aid of obscure passages in third-rate historians, groundless assumptions of identity, and etymological torturing of roots, all that we know, and all that we believe, may be converted, as if by the touch of Harlequin's wand, into something totally different. 

"Fourthly, Mr. Hislop's argument proves too much. He finds not only the corruptions of Popery, but the fundamental articles of the Christian Faith, in his hypothetical Babylonian system. ... 

"... But it is idle to speak seriously of a book which only claims attention by its matchless absurdity, and by the fact that it apparently finds readers. We take leave of Mr. Hislop and his work with the remark that we never before quite knew the folly of which ignorant or half-learned bigotry is capable." 

- p. 340 [paragraphs added for ease of reading]

This, in reality, is Hislop's "valuable contribution." 

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have marveled at the 'timing' of his writings and wondered if Jehovah did have a hand in it.

Are you suggesting that the 'God of Truth' (Ps. 31:5) had a hand in disseminating falsehood?

 

 

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

In spite of these tactics, I'm willing to see you try again. If you think you have evidence this time, please start a new topic.

Yes, go ahead, Allen. Make my day. 

cheeky-smile-smiley-emoticon_zpsaa87d742

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