Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Reminds me of these

Lol!

I just don't want ot end up like this guy from xkcd

;-)

[JW Insider]

On 9/21/2016 at 2:40 PM, Anna said:

When one does a bit of mathematics (not my forte) and calculates the percentage of current Jehovah's Witnesses in comparison to the World's population we arrive at 0.1%

There have been several statements in the publications for those concerned about children, mentally incapacitated, and those alive at Armageddon who have never had an opportunity to learn of Jehovah's goodness. We once taught that all honest-hearted persons have an opportunity because the angels could create the opportunity for them, even in countries like China, Saudi Arabia, India, etc. Yet, the gains that Witnesses have made in various countries around the world are almost always in proportion to the number of missionaries from Christendom who were allowed to work in these areas in the 17th through the 19th centuries. If Christendom paved the way, then we will do relatively well. If Christendom had been allowed very few concessions or none, then this is also the predictor of how well we have done (so far).

I thought that the related statement below (from 2002) not only says it clearly, but also reminds us to think about our own attitudes. Armageddon, Jehovah's impending judgment, should be a "motivation" for us to show whether we look at our fellow inhabitants with love. Do we see "each" and every individual [in the entire world] as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah? Love makes us want to share the good things we have. If we love our neighbor, we want to share our experiences with them. If they are uncomfortable, or suffering, we want to share what we can with them to make them more comfortable, and ease their suffering. Religion is generally designed to bring comfort, but often leaves people less comfortable. Religion seems not to address the terrible prospects for the planet brought about by the greed of man. Yet, our message is a very comforting one for those sighing and crying, desperate, and  broken-hearted -- including especially, those who have a love for life on this planet.

The 0.1% number that you mentioned has been repeated in the same context with the message that literally billions will die. (99.9%) But, the publications no longer try to put a number or a percent on the deaths at Armageddon. I like the way it was worded here:

*** w02 8/15 pp. 18-19 par. 13 “Follow Me Continually” ***
How may we imitate him in this regard? Never should we develop a callous attitude toward the people around us. Granted, “the war of the great day of God the Almighty” is looming ever nearer, and many among mankind’s billions will be destroyed. (Revelation 16:14; Jeremiah 25:33) Yet, we do not know who will live and who will die. That judgment lies in the future and belongs to the one Jehovah has appointed, Jesus Christ. Until the judgment is passed, we view each individual as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah.—Matthew 19:24-26; 25:31-33; Acts 17:31.

To me, this is one of the most significant improvements to our teachings because it does not open us up to the charge of being haughty and presumptuous about who will survive and who won't.

For me, this is one of many improvements the current Governing Body have promoted. When I was first going out in service, and even well after I was baptized, the attitude was quite different, and I remembered being bothered by it, especially when I had to defend that attitude to householders.

*** w55 11/1 p. 648 Using Wisely the Reduced Time Left ***

Time spent in trying to accumulate wealth, fame or power or in trying to perpetuate this old system of things is wasted, and that is what more than 99.9 per cent of this earth’s population are doing.

*** w58 10/15 pp. 614-615 What Will Armageddon Mean for You? ***
On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent, even as we read: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions. Even the professedly Christian organizations? Yes, because all such that are friends of the world are making themselves enemies of God. . . . God’s Word likens Armageddon to the Flood, to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and to the battle at Gibeon, where God rained down great blocks of ice upon his enemies. Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man. It will be marked by . . . tremendous upheavals of earth, . . . rain of corrosive liquid fire and terror in the air, on land and in the sea.  No wonder that “the slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the face of the ground.”—Jer. 25:33, AS.

There was also an idea that children should be baptized as fast as possible, or the children might not survive even if the parents did. The expression "get into the Ark before the door closes" was even a part of the baptism talk at the assembly in 1967.

*** w58 6/1 p. 330 Why Dedicate Ourselves to God? ***
And yet that is the very course that more than 99.9 percent of earth’s population take and it accounts for the fact that the earth is filled with confusion, misery and wickedness. . . . Dedication is therefore the course of wisdom, for “the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life.” . . . Nor may we vacillate or delay. We are living in the days comparable to those in which Noah lived and time is running out! If we procrastinate we may not survive the foretold cataclysmic end of this old world at Armageddon.

*** w51 11/15 p. 682 par. 23 Baptism for Salvation and Fire Baptism ***
So the Scriptural conclusion is that what brought salvation from the deluge was for the survivors to be baptized or immersed into Noah the ark-builder. . . . The seven who went into the ark with Noah had to have confidence in him as Jehovah’s prophet. They had to be unbreakably attached to him . . . . They had to be incorporated into a system of things not of that world, a theocratic arrangement in which Noah was the chief builder, the chief consultant and shipmaster or pilot. So they had to submit to him as the head who took the lead and directed the body of fellow workers. Doing all this, they were in effect baptized into Noah. This being baptized into a chosen servant of Jehovah was duplicated in the case of Moses. As he was the mediator between God and the Israelites, they had no approach into relationship with God except through him. They had to accept Jehovah’s laws through him. Outside of the theocratic organization under Moses’ visible headship and outside of this “state of Israel” there was no hope and a person was “without God in the world”.

Since 99.9% of the world population was going to die at Armageddon, some began saying that they could die but would surely be resurrected. My mother asked about this when hosting the circuit overseer for the week, and the circuit overseer's wife mentioned that her husband had given a talk where he said that they might die during the great tribulation when it was not "Jehovah's final judgment" at Armageddon. My mother was happy. (Her mother, my grandmother, worked almost all her life with mentally handicapped, "idiot savants," etc. Persons full of a lot of love but supposedly without prospects to survive Armageddon.)

Don't know whether the circuit overseer was told to say this or just speculating personally, but this was quite different from previous teachings. For example, both issues: the issue of "children" and the issue of the "uninformed" were dealt with in this question:

*** w51 5/1 pp. 287-288 Questions From Readers ***
Some maintain that at Armageddon there will be three classes: sheep that survive, goats that are eternally destroyed, and uninformed or unresponsible ones who will die but will be resurrected, and that in this latter class will be young children. Is this correct?-L. P., Montana.
We know of no Scriptural backing for such a view. The parable of the sheep and goats shows the nations being separated into two classes, not three. The goats headed for everlasting cutting-off are not just those who persecuted Christ’s brothers. The parable upbraids the goats, not for what they did, but for what they failed to do, for their indifference toward and lack of interest in his brothers.—Matt. 25:45.
Many who never come in touch with the anointed remnant nevertheless subscribe to what others do in persecuting or fail to do in the way of giving help. The Bible shows a communal responsibility, where a community upholds rulers who persecute Jehovah’s people. Did not the Egyptians suffer the plagues because of Pharaoh’s hardheartedness? Did not the Amalekites suffer for generations afterward because of Amalek’s opposition to Israel in the wilderness? Were not the entire households, including little children, of Korah and Dathan and Abiram swallowed up in destruction because of the rebellion of the household heads? Did not Achan by his greed bring death not only to himself but to his sons and daughters as well? Even King David brought death upon his people by his own transgressions. (Ex. 5:1, 2; 9:13-16; 17:8, 14, 16; 20:5, 6; Num. 16:23-33; Josh. 7:24, 25; 2 Sam. 24:10-17) Now, who will be rash and commit the folly of posing as more just than God by saying He was wrong in such procedures?—Deut. 32:4.
In harmony with the parable of the sheep and goats, Ezekiel chapter 9 shows but two classes, those marked for preservation and the unmarked ones appointed to destruction. And in this latter class note that little children were included, to be slain without pity. This is a prophetic picture of the destruction at Armageddon. At a time of judgment Jesus said: “If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” That means not only clergy and laity but also parent and child. If a parent chooses to sin against the holy spirit despite the eternal interests of his offspring, that then becomes the responsibility of the parent. In that same time of judgment Paul and Barnabas said to the Jews: “It was necessary for the word of God to be spoken first to you. Since you are thrusting it away from you and do not judge yourselves worthy of everlasting life, look! we turn to the nations.” (Acts 13:46, NW) Those Jews became responsible for the fate of their offspring, not Paul and Barnabas.
Parents devoted to their children will in the interests of their offspring shun wrong ways, taking instead right paths so as to put their children in the way of preservation. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and that also means little children at Armageddon whose parents belong to Jehovah and who try to rear them according to God’s Word. (Deut. 6:6, 7; Eph. 6:4; 2 Tim. 2:19, NW) To Christian parents of young children the promise is: “Otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.”—1 Cor. 7:14, NW.

About 10 years after I was baptized, at the same time I started pioneering full-time, a more comforting answer became available (and has been repeated since):

*** w76 6/1 p. 347 pars. 16-17 Look Forward with Confidence in God’s Righteousness and Justice ***
16 Observe, however, that Jesus did not leave it up to humans to determine who are the “sheep” and who are the “goats.” How fine that is! For, if we humans were responsible to judge, how could we properly evaluate factors such as: How much of an opportunity did a person have to hear and accept the good news? Did his genetic, family or religious background affect his response? What is his heart condition—does he love righteousness? If he is a child or was born mentally retarded, how much bearing should family or community responsibility have on the matter?—1 Cor. 7:14; Deut. 30:19.
17 Unquestionably, not one of us is qualified to weigh these, and perhaps many other, vital factors and principles. We could not reach judgments that are ‘perfect, righteous and upright.’ (Deut. 32:4) Hence, why should any of us become needlessly involved with trying to decide who will survive and who will not?

 

 

[Evacuated]

Our concern for who will be saved is best transformed into action on two counts.

1. 2Tim.4:2:  

"Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times"

2. 2Pet.3:14

"Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace"

Paul reinforces this second point:

Phil.2:12 "keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
 

[HollyW]

On 9/21/2016 at 11:40 AM, Anna said:

or, Jehovah will judge their hearts and allow nearly HALF of the people, (agnostics or believers in false Gods) entry into the new world without them even needing to know him.

WTS says No.  Their viewpoint from Revelation Climax p. 126:

How do individuals of the great crowd qualify for survival? The elder tells John that they have “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” In other words, they have exercised faith in Jesus as their Ransomer, have made a dedication to Jehovah, have symbolized their dedication by water baptism, and “hold a good conscience” by their upright conduct. (1 Peter 3:16, 21; Matthew 20:28) Thus, they are clean and righteous in Jehovah’s eyes. And they keep themselves “without spot from the world.”—James 1:27.

25 Further, they have become zealous Witnesses of Jehovah—“rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple.”

[Anna]

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There have been several statements in the publications for those concerned about children, mentally incapacitated, and those alive at Armageddon who have never had an opportunity to learn of Jehovah's goodness. We once taught that all honest-hearted persons have an opportunity because the angels could create the opportunity for them, even in countries like China, Saudi Arabia, India, etc. Yet, the gains that Witnesses have made in various countries around the world are almost always in proportion to the number of missionaries from Christendom who were allowed to work in these areas in the 17th through the 19th centuries. If Christendom paved the way, then we will do relatively well. If Christendom had been allowed very few concessions or none, then this is also the predictor of how well we have done (so far).

I thought that the related statement below (from 2002) not only says it clearly, but also reminds us to think about our own attitudes. Armageddon, Jehovah's impending judgment, should be a "motivation" for us to show whether we look at our fellow inhabitants with love. Do we see "each" and every individual [in the entire world] as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah? Love makes us want to share the good things we have. If we love our neighbor, we want to share our experiences with them. If they are uncomfortable, or suffering, we want to share what we can with them to make them more comfortable, and ease their suffering. Religion is generally designed to bring comfort, but often leaves people less comfortable. Religion seems not to address the terrible prospects for the planet brought about by the greed of man. Yet, our message is a very comforting one for those sighing and crying, desperate, and  broken-hearted -- including especially, those who have a love for life on this planet.

The 0.1% number that you mentioned has been repeated in the same context with the message that literally billions will die. (99.9%) But, the publications no longer try to put a number or a percent on the deaths at Armageddon. I like the way it was worded here:

*** w02 8/15 pp. 18-19 par. 13 “Follow Me Continually” ***
How may we imitate him in this regard? Never should we develop a callous attitude toward the people around us. Granted, “the war of the great day of God the Almighty” is looming ever nearer, and many among mankind’s billions will be destroyed. (Revelation 16:14; Jeremiah 25:33) Yet, we do not know who will live and who will die. —Matthew 19:24-26; 25:31-33; Acts 17:31.That judgment lies in the future and belongs to the one Jehovah has appointed, Jesus Christ. Until the judgment is passed, we view each individual as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah.

To me, this is one of the most significant improvements to our teachings because it does not open us up to the charge of being haughty and presumptuous about who will survive and who won't.

For me, this is one of many improvements the current Governing Body have promoted. When I was first going out in service, and even well after I was baptized, the attitude was quite different, and I remembered being bothered by it, especially when I had to defend that attitude to householders.

*** w55 11/1 p. 648 Using Wisely the Reduced Time Left ***

Time spent in trying to accumulate wealth, fame or power or in trying to perpetuate this old system of things is wasted, and that is what more than 99.9 per cent of this earth’s population are doing.

*** w58 10/15 pp. 614-615 What Will Armageddon Mean for You? ***
On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent, even as we read: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions. Even the professedly Christian organizations? Yes, because all such that are friends of the world are making themselves enemies of God. . . . God’s Word likens Armageddon to the Flood, to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and to the battle at Gibeon, where God rained down great blocks of ice upon his enemies. Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man. It will be marked by . . . tremendous upheavals of earth, . . . rain of corrosive liquid fire and terror in the air, on land and in the sea.  No wonder that “the slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the face of the ground.”—Jer. 25:33, AS.

There was also an idea that children should be baptized as fast as possible, or the children might not survive even if the parents did. The expression "get into the Ark before the door closes" was even a part of the baptism talk at the assembly in 1967.

*** w58 6/1 p. 330 Why Dedicate Ourselves to God? ***
And yet that is the very course that more than 99.9 percent of earth’s population take and it accounts for the fact that the earth is filled with confusion, misery and wickedness. . . . Dedication is therefore the course of wisdom, for “the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life.” . . . Nor may we vacillate or delay. We are living in the days comparable to those in which Noah lived and time is running out! If we procrastinate we may not survive the foretold cataclysmic end of this old world at Armageddon.

*** w51 11/15 p. 682 par. 23 Baptism for Salvation and Fire Baptism ***
So the Scriptural conclusion is that what brought salvation from the deluge was for the survivors to be baptized or immersed into Noah the ark-builder. . . . The seven who went into the ark with Noah had to have confidence in him as Jehovah’s prophet. They had to be unbreakably attached to him . . . . They had to be incorporated into a system of things not of that world, a theocratic arrangement in which Noah was the chief builder, the chief consultant and shipmaster or pilot. So they had to submit to him as the head who took the lead and directed the body of fellow workers. Doing all this, they were in effect baptized into Noah. This being baptized into a chosen servant of Jehovah was duplicated in the case of Moses. As he was the mediator between God and the Israelites, they had no approach into relationship with God except through him. They had to accept Jehovah’s laws through him. Outside of the theocratic organization under Moses’ visible headship and outside of this “state of Israel” there was no hope and a person was “without God in the world”.

Since 99.9% of the world population was going to die at Armageddon, some began saying that they could die but would surely be resurrected. My mother asked about this when hosting the circuit overseer for the week, and the circuit overseer's wife mentioned that her husband had given a talk where he said that they might die during the great tribulation when it was not "Jehovah's final judgment" at Armageddon. My mother was happy. (Her mother, my grandmother, worked almost all her life with mentally handicapped, "idiot savants," etc. Persons full of a lot of love but supposedly without prospects to survive Armageddon.)

Don't know whether the circuit overseer was told to say this or just speculating personally, but this was quite different from previous teachings. For example, both issues: the issue of "children" and the issue of the "uninformed" were dealt with in this question:

*** w51 5/1 pp. 287-288 Questions From Readers ***
Some maintain that at Armageddon there will be three classes: sheep that survive, goats that are eternally destroyed, and uninformed or unresponsible ones who will die but will be resurrected, and that in this latter class will be young children. Is this correct?-L. P., Montana.
We know of no Scriptural backing for such a view. The parable of the sheep and goats shows the nations being separated into two classes, not three. The goats headed for everlasting cutting-off are not just those who persecuted Christ’s brothers. The parable upbraids the goats, not for what they did, but for what they failed to do, for their indifference toward and lack of interest in his brothers.—Matt. 25:45.
Many who never come in touch with the anointed remnant nevertheless subscribe to what others do in persecuting or fail to do in the way of giving help. The Bible shows a communal responsibility, where a community upholds rulers who persecute Jehovah’s people. Did not the Egyptians suffer the plagues because of Pharaoh’s hardheartedness? Did not the Amalekites suffer for generations afterward because of Amalek’s opposition to Israel in the wilderness? Were not the entire households, including little children, of Korah and Dathan and Abiram swallowed up in destruction because of the rebellion of the household heads? Did not Achan by his greed bring death not only to himself but to his sons and daughters as well? Even King David brought death upon his people by his own transgressions. (Ex. 5:1, 2; 9:13-16; 17:8, 14, 16; 20:5, 6; Num. 16:23-33; Josh. 7:24, 25; 2 Sam. 24:10-17) Now, who will be rash and commit the folly of posing as more just than God by saying He was wrong in such procedures?—Deut. 32:4.
In harmony with the parable of the sheep and goats, Ezekiel chapter 9 shows but two classes, those marked for preservation and the unmarked ones appointed to destruction. And in this latter class note that little children were included, to be slain without pity. This is a prophetic picture of the destruction at Armageddon. At a time of judgment Jesus said: “If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” That means not only clergy and laity but also parent and child. If a parent chooses to sin against the holy spirit despite the eternal interests of his offspring, that then becomes the responsibility of the parent. In that same time of judgment Paul and Barnabas said to the Jews: “It was necessary for the word of God to be spoken first to you. Since you are thrusting it away from you and do not judge yourselves worthy of everlasting life, look! we turn to the nations.” (Acts 13:46, NW) Those Jews became responsible for the fate of their offspring, not Paul and Barnabas.
Parents devoted to their children will in the interests of their offspring shun wrong ways, taking instead right paths so as to put their children in the way of preservation. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and that also means little children at Armageddon whose parents belong to Jehovah and who try to rear them according to God’s Word. (Deut. 6:6, 7; Eph. 6:4; 2 Tim. 2:19, NW) To Christian parents of young children the promise is: “Otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.”—1 Cor. 7:14, NW.

About 10 years after I was baptized, at the same time I started pioneering full-time, a more comforting answer became available (and has been repeated since):

*** w76 6/1 p. 347 pars. 16-17 Look Forward with Confidence in God’s Righteousness and Justice ***
16 Observe, however, that Jesus did not leave it up to humans to determine who are the “sheep” and who are the “goats.” How fine that is! For, if we humans were responsible to judge, how could we properly evaluate factors such as: How much of an opportunity did a person have to hear and accept the good news? Did his genetic, family or religious background affect his response? What is his heart condition—does he love righteousness? If he is a child or was born mentally retarded, how much bearing should family or community responsibility have on the matter?—1 Cor. 7:14; Deut. 30:19.
17 Unquestionably, not one of us is qualified to weigh these, and perhaps many other, vital factors and principles. We could not reach judgments that are ‘perfect, righteous and upright.’ (Deut. 32:4) Hence, why should any of us become needlessly involved with trying to decide who will survive and who will not?

 

 

Thank you for the pertinent quotes and observations. Very helpful

"Yet, the gains that Witnesses have made in various countries around the world are almost always in proportion to the number of missionaries from Christendom who were allowed to work in these areas in the 17th through the 19th centuries. If Christendom paved the way, then we will do relatively well. If Christendom had been allowed very few concessions or none, then this is also the predictor of how well we have done (so far) - True.

"...think about our own attitudes. Armageddon, Jehovah's impending judgment, should be a "motivation" for us to show whether we look at our fellow inhabitants with love. Do we see "each" and every individual [in the entire world] as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah? Love makes us want to share the good things we have. If we love our neighbor, we want to share our experiences with them. If they are uncomfortable, or suffering, we want to share what we can with them to make them more comfortable, and ease their suffering. ". - YES. For a while some had the attitude that “We are God’s elite and the rest are Amharetz” . I remember you wrote  in one of your posts about how one of the members of the GB got upset when Bethel wasn’t ranked number 1 as the cleanest offices one year,  or something like that. It is understandable because as God’s organization, we should want to be the best we can be in everything, however if the attitude isn’t coupled with humility then it can bring in an air of superiority, which can rub off on others. I remember (and I am sure some of us had that experience at one point) when out in field service some would “joke” about how they would get that “goats” house after Armageddon. I am glad our overall attitude has changed and it is more like you described. I have not heard anyone say anything similar for many, many years now. On the contrary, there is a lot more kindness and compassion for the householders.  Interestingly, those who made such pompous, judgemental  remarks are no longer in the truth....

"Unquestionably, not one of us is qualified to weigh these, and perhaps many other, vital factors and principles. We could not reach judgments that are ‘perfect, righteous and upright.’ (Deut. 32:4) Hence, why should any of us become needlessly involved with trying to decide who will survive and who will not?" - Yes, very true. Of course we can't decide. In that case, it still begs the question though what will happen to aprox. 7 million people who have no chance of getting to know Jehovah because of the time factor.

"That judgment lies in the future and belongs to the one Jehovah has appointed, Jesus Christ. Until the judgment is passed, we view each individual as having the potential to become a servant of Jehovah". - This is probably the most satisfying answer, (to me anyway) because if we can view someone as "having the potential", then Jehovah can actually KNOW the potential. This is perhaps the answer to what will happen to those without knowledge, they will be judged according to their potential....It is interesting also to consider Matthew 25:41- 43  “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink."....etc. It is obviously talking about those who SHOULD have known him and his representatives on earth, but chose not to. Those who are ignorant of Jesus and Jehovah, not through choice, surely cannot fall into this category.....imo. This would also of course apply to those who are intellectually limited. As for children...that's a difficult one since they are the responsibility of their parent, nevertheless they are innocent, for the time being anyway, but Jehovah can project what they would be like once they grew up I am sure.... My very good friend, when she first started to study, had a problem with this question regarding children, she didn't really get a satisfying answer (to her) at the time. It bothered her as she had a much younger brother, who was just a toddler. But she persevered and became a loyal sister nevertheless. Forward 30 years later:This little "toddler" is now a practicing homosexual, drug addict and a useless member of society choosing to lead a debauched life and criminal life. This is of course not to say he could not change, but the point is, children grow up, and choose a way of life according to their wishes, for the most part, so Jehovah surely would be able to see what kind of persons they would become......

"Religion is generally designed to bring comfort, but often leaves people less comfortable. Religion seems not to address the terrible prospects for the planet brought about by the greed of man. Yet, our message is a very comforting one for those sighing and crying, desperate, and  broken-hearted -- including especially, those who have a love for life on this planet". - Nice statement

[Anna]

5 hours ago, HollyW said:

WTS says No.  Their viewpoint from Revelation Climax p. 126:

How do individuals of the great crowd qualify for survival? The elder tells John that they have “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” In other words, they have exercised faith in Jesus as their Ransomer, have made a dedication to Jehovah, have symbolized their dedication by water baptism, and “hold a good conscience” by their upright conduct. (1 Peter 3:16, 21; Matthew 20:28) Thus, they are clean and righteous in Jehovah’s eyes. And they keep themselves “without spot from the world.”—James 1:27.

25 Further, they have become zealous Witnesses of Jehovah—“rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple.”

 

 

 

I have given my opinion in my answer to JWInsider

[HollyW]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I have given my opinion in my answer to JWInsider

First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful and discreet slave.” By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided “at the proper time”—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we maintain “oneness” with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45. (Watchtower, August 1, 2001, p.14)

To survive the great tribulation and Armageddon, the WTS says the great crowd must be JWs in good standing----You don't agree with that?

Has the Revelation Climax commentary has been adjusted to say different.   

[Anna]

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful and discreet slave.” By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided “at the proper time”—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we maintain “oneness” with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45. (Watchtower, August 1, 2001, p.14)

To survive the great tribulation and Armageddon, the WTS says the great crowd must be JWs in good standing----You don't agree with that?

Has the Revelation Climax commentary has been adjusted to say different.   

It says a "mature Christian". We are all at different levels of Christian maturity, learning and adjusting out views and opinions. It also suggests there is nothing wrong with a personal opinion, it is the advocating or insisting on it. That is immature. As for harboring private ideas, well, no one can stop private ideas, and no one except Jehovah needs to know about them. Again to what extend and what KIND of private ideas one harbors does have a baring on the maturity of the Christian. The operative idea is NOT "harboring". This suggests that on the contrary, we should be able to talk about them. And if these private ideas foster doubt, then we should definitely talk to a mature Christian about them.

As regards "To survive the great tribulation and Armageddon, the WTS says the great crowd must be JWs in good standing" JWInsider has covered that.

[HollyW]

25 minutes ago, Anna said:

It says a "mature Christian". We are all at different levels of Christian maturity, learning and adjusting out views and opinions. It also suggests there is nothing wrong with a personal opinion, it is the advocating or insisting on it. That is immature. As for harboring private ideas, well, no one can stop private ideas, and no one except Jehovah needs to know about them. Again to what extend and what KIND of private ideas one harbors does have a baring on the maturity of the Christian. The operative idea is NOT "harboring". This suggests that on the contrary, we should be able to talk about them. And if these private ideas foster doubt, then we should definitely talk to a mature Christian about them.

As regards "To survive the great tribulation and Armageddon, the WTS says the great crowd must be JWs in good standing" JWInsider has covered that.

I'm all for you having your own opinions, Anna, but what I posted is from your own religious leaders and I'm not sure they want you quibbling and mouthing objections to what they've said, do you?  You seem to be coming up with all sorts of excuses not to accept what they've said.

Does JW Insider share the view of the men on the WTS Governing Body, the viewpoint I posted from the Revelation Climax commentary or is he voicing his own opinion? 

[Anna]

On 9/25/2016 at 0:25 AM, HollyW said:

I'm all for you having your own opinions, Anna, but what I posted is from your own religious leaders and I'm not sure they want you quibbling and mouthing objections to what they've said, do you?  You seem to be coming up with all sorts of excuses not to accept what they've said.

Does JW Insider share the view of the men on the WTS Governing Body, the viewpoint I posted from the Revelation Climax commentary or is he voicing his own opinion? 

You didn't read my answer properly.

[HollyW]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

You didn't read my answer properly.

Doncha hate it when that happens.  

So, in what way did I read your answer improperly?  Please explain.

 

[Anna]

3 hours ago, HollyW said:

Doncha hate it when that happens.  

So, in what way did I read your answer improperly?  Please explain.

 

" there is nothing wrong with a personal opinion, it is the advocating or insisting on it". I would never insist on my opinion with the friends. I will mention it once, have a discussion,  but I will not keep on going on about it.

I am talking about it here, as this is a controversial section, and people have the choice to either come here and read it or not. In this regard I am not pushing my opinion on a captive audience. In fact I don't think I am pushing my opinion at all (correct me if I am wrong) I am merely explaining how I feel and why.