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3 hours ago, Anna said:

That is a shame.  A "people for God" or "ark of salvation" does have scriptural backing though.

True. By the way, this will be a very "nuanced" point, and I'm afraid a lot of us will find good reason to disagree. Some might even think this part of the discussion is dangerous. But surely it is just as dangerous to toy with blasphemy and idolatry which might be done in the way that some think of the organization and the need to "put faith in [the] organization."

*** w18 January p. 13 par. 5 Pleasant Unity and the Memorial ***

  • By ‘testing whether we are in the faith.’ To do that, we do well to ask ourselves: ‘Do I really believe that I am part of the only organization that Jehovah has approved to accomplish his will?

*** w79 3/1 p. 18 par. 21 Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization ***

  • But, steadfastly, devoted Witnesses have kept their faith in Jehovah’s organization. They know which one of all organizations on earth the Almighty God has used . . . . Is there any cause for us to lose faith in Jehovah’s visible organization . . ?

*** w54 11/1 p. 667 par. 19 Walking in Good Behavior ***

  • Do we have strong faith in Jehovah’s organization? Then loyally and actively support it. Your regular attendance . . .

I know that "Gone Away" responded to the same point by comparing how one might have faith in their spouse, for example. But, of course, it would still be wrong for a spouse to eclipse our relationship with Jehovah, or if we were to attribute salvation to our spouse.

And while there is scriptural backing for a "people for God" or "ark of salvation" perhaps it is only our own materialism --leaning on our own understanding-- that keeps us from seeing that Jehovah and Jesus might not see these man-made denominational boundaries the way we ourselves do. It's true that the material, physical nation of Israel represented a picture of what would be true of Christianity. But I'm pretty sure we need to look more closely at how those pictures were only shadows of the things to come. Israel was organized as a physical nation, and the Law was physically written in stone, but in Christianity there would be a new covenant written in hearts. (Jeremiah 33 and Romans 2:29):

  • (Romans 2:29) 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people.
  • (2 Corinthians 3:3) . . .inscribed not with ink but with the spirit of a living God, not on stone tablets but on fleshly tablets, on hearts.

  • (Jeremiah 31:33, 34) 33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.” 34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”

  • (Jeremiah 4:4)  4 Circumcise yourselves to Jehovah, And remove the foreskins of your hearts,. . .

 

I find it instructive that the Bible's contains admonition against inadvertently "worshipping" the sun or the moon, and it is not about bowing down to them formally and following some specific rituals common to sun worshipers. Instead it is about how one might be secretly seduced by their beauty and magnificence. I also think it's instructive that basic religion as described here in Job also includes exactly the primary points that Jesus said were worth more than the Mosaic Law.

  • (Job 31:14-34) 14 What can I do when God confronts me? What can I answer him when he calls for an accounting? . . . 16 If I refused to give the poor what they desired Or saddened the eyes of the widow; 17 If I ate my portion of food alone Without sharing it with the orphans; . . . 19 If I saw anyone perishing for lack of clothing Or a poor man with nothing to cover himself; . . .  21 If I shook my fist against the orphan When he needed my assistance in the city gate; . . . 24 If I put my confidence in gold Or said to fine gold, ‘You are my security!’ . . .  26 If I saw the sun shining Or the moon moving in its splendor; 27 And my heart was secretly enticed, And my mouth kissed my hand in worship of them; 28 Then. . . I would have denied the true God above. 29 Have I ever rejoiced over the destruction of my enemy Or gloated because evil befell him? . . . 32 No stranger had to spend the night outside; I opened my doors to the traveler. 33 Have I ever tried to cover over my transgressions, like other men, By hiding my error in the pocket of my garment? 34 Have I been in fear of the reaction of the multitude, Or have I been terrified by the contempt of other families,. . .

It's about hospitality, loving one's enemies, loving justice, kindness, looking after orphans and widows, and looking after the hungry, thirsty, and even the homeless in their tribulation. When persons are without clothing we give them something to wear. These are all things that mirror Jesus' words and the book of James about what motivates true Christian religion and on what basis we will be judged. (I included 33 and 34 only because they show that in "true religion" when thinking of our own accounting before Jehovah, we do not hide our errors, but humbly admit them, even as an organization involved in an important teaching ministry.)

I mention this in advance because I also think it is sacrilege to claim, out of context, that giving a glass of water to one of Christ's brothers means treating the 'faithful and discreet slave' with proper respect. In its Biblical context, it was part of the discussion that we should all be motivated to do good for everyone, and that even those non-followers of Jesus who just happen, therefore, out of kindness to treat Christ's followers kindly, will be counted as Christ's followers. This is another example that might bear on the original question. We can claim that something in 33 C.E. changed all that, so that everyone had to join the Christian congregation from that point on, and start giving "glasses of water" to the anointed, but this is far from the point Jesus was making. It seems he was really saying that Christianity could be imputed even to those who didn't know they were Christian:

  • (Matthew 25:37-40) 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

In our current WTS view, we avoid the idea that just any Christian might actually find Christ's brothers hungry and feed them, because this contradicts our current view of the "faithful and discreet slave." This must be why we ignore quote and focus on the "drink of water" instead.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

these people are not scattered among various denominations as wheat

We had no problem imagining them scattered among various denominations as wheat from the year 200 until the late 1800's. You must have the idea that there was a point in time when this changed. We like to think it must have been around 1919 when the "slave" was to have been appointed. A true Christian might have begun to notice the religion that began teaching no hellfire, and no Trinity at that time, but it wasn't the largest non-Trinitarian denomination (although I think it was quickly to become the largest non-Hellfire denomination). But remember that these teachings, although I think they were most important, were not the primary focus in 1919. The primary focus was a false prophecy about 1925, and that false prophecy remained the primary focus from 1919 right up into the beginning of the year 1925. And it was still heavily infected with the "cult of Russellites" even according to the admissions of our own publications. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty to agree with, and there were plenty of beautiful expositions of Scripture to be found in the Watchtower, the Seven Volumes, the Harp of God, and various booklets. Most of the beautiful things were not unique to the Bible Students, though. MOST of the focus at the time was on maggots and worms as "Gone Away" has referred to some of these teachings.

I'm not saying that Jehovah didn't bless the work of those brothers who continued looking for gems within the Bible Student movement. We have to consider whether any true Christian would (or should) have even considered joining the Bible Students between 1919 and 1925.

So at what point did Jehovah stop finding wheat scattered among various denominations. At what point did Jehovah start declaring that all wheat must now be found within the confines of a physically defined denomination?

Again, I must explain that I think we are better off and safer as Christians associating with the brotherhood that allows us to practice Christianity in the best way we know how. We can have "faith" that the best place for us is among Jehovah's Witnesses. But as you said:

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Surely they know that in the end each will render an account for themselves to God, individually?

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There have been several statements in the publications for those concerned about children, mentally incapacitated, and those alive at Armageddon who have never had an opportunity to learn of Jehovah's goodness. We once taught that all honest-hearted persons have an opportunity because the angels could create the opportunity for them, even in countries like China, Saudi Arabia, India, etc. Yet, the gains that Witnesses have made in various countries around the world are almost always in proportio

That "succinct" answer is a perfect example of the "skirting" I referred to earlier: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?     No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world,

Perhaps it is one of the best ways to find the proper meaning of the following verses, among several others:   (Matthew 5:18) 18 Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place. (Matthew 5:34, 35) . . .neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by earth, for it is the footstool of his feet;. . . (Matthew 6:10) . . .Let your will take place,

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I'm afraid a lot of us will find good reason to disagree. Some might even think this part of the discussion is dangerous. But surely it is just as dangerous to toy with blasphemy and idolatry which might be done in the way that some think of the organization and the need to "put faith in [the] organization."

Personally I am not comfortable with some of the comments the GB have made regarding faith in the organization, apparently putting it on the same level as faith in God. I do have a problem with that. On the other hand, if this reasoning is made in good faith, and has the effect of unifying the brothers, then as mentioned previously, that is the opposite of fragmenting, and fragmenting has been blamed as the cause of disunity and an excuse for Christendom.

A few broadcasts ago, (March?) one of the GB members in his talk, implored the friends to "trust the Governing Body". I thought to myself, well why not? You've got to trust someone right?  Of course, first and foremost we trust God, but because we trust God, we also trust that as long as we, as individuals, stick to Bible principles, he (Jehovah) will make sure we will be OK spiritually. On top of that, surely the GB know that trust has to be earned. You cannot trust someone if they have given you a reason not to in the past. I have not had such an experience to date. There are things I do not agree with, but they are not fundamental. I would like to see more transparency, but at least I have seen glimpses of improvement on that front. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

We had no problem imagining them scattered among various denominations as wheat from the year 200 until the late 1800's.

No we didn't, but as I explained, there was nowhere for them to gather. They were on their own. Stuck in their denomination, but usually they either fought against it, disagreed with it, or left it. By that, we judge they must have been the wheat.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

So at what point did Jehovah stop finding wheat scattered among various denominations. At what point did Jehovah start declaring that all wheat must now be found within the confines of a physically defined denomination?

Who is to say that Jehovah ever stopped finding wheat among the denominations and gathering them together with the other wheat within the confines of a physically defined denomination? I would assume that once true worship was restored, (or maybe at some point during the restoration) that was the point at which the wheat started to be gathered together into a group ..

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

 in the end each will render an account for themselves to God, individually

and the Governing Body know that too.

I will address your other point about the glass of water later....

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52 minutes ago, Anna said:

that was the point at which the wheat started to be gathered together into a group ..

You might be putting the cart before the horse. The "harvest" is when the wheat is pulled at the end of the system when the wheat is gathered into wheat bundles and the weeds are gathered into weed bundles:

  • (Matthew 13:28-30) . . .The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”
  • (Matthew 13:37-43) . . .“The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.

 

Officially, we start the harvest closer to 1914, but it seems more scriptural here to apply it to the time when the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father, the time when the angels collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and pitch them into final destruction. The wheat and weeds grow together until the harvest, until the angels bundle them. Therefore, if there are still any seeds being planted, and if there are any more Christians growing, then we cannot be in the harvest yet. Growing occurs UNTIL the harvest. (And the corollary: if the harvest began in 1914, then there has been no planting, watering, and growing since 1914.)

While we wish we could apply more of these in Matthew 13 to 1914 and 1919, and we once did, notice how much trouble we now have trying to fit it all to 1914/1919:

 

*** ws13 7/15 pp. 13-14 pars. 13-17 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***

  • Third, weeping and gnashing. After the angels bundle the weeds, what happens? Speaking about the condition of “the weeds,” Jesus says: “There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.” (Matthew 13:42) Is that happening right now? No. Christendom is part of the harlot described in Revelation chapter 18. Even today, Christendom says about herself: “I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.” (Revelation 18:7) She still feels she is in control and even tries to be “a queen” with power over political leaders. So false Christians represented by the weeds are still boasting today. They have not started to weep. . . .
  • 15 Fourth, pitched into the furnace. What will happen to the bundles of weeds? The angels “will pitch them into the fiery furnace.” (Matthew 13:42) This means that they will be completely destroyed. So the ones who belonged to those organizations teaching false religion will be destroyed during the final part of the great tribulation, Armageddon.—Malachi 4:1.
  • 16 Fifth, shining brightly. Jesus ends his prophecy by saying: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” (Matthew 13:43) When and where will they shine brightly? This part of the prophecy will be fulfilled in the future. And it will be fulfilled in heaven, not on earth. (See endnote.) We will now discuss two reasons for understanding the prophecy this way.
  • 17 First, when will this happen? Jesus said: “At that time the righteous ones will shine.” Evidently, the expression “at that time” is connected to the event Jesus had just described, that is, the time when the weeds are ‘pitched into the fiery furnace.’ That happens during the final part of the great tribulation. So the anointed must “shine as brightly as the sun” at that future time as well. Second, where will this happen? Jesus said that the righteous ones will shine “in the kingdom.”

In the official view, the harvest began over 100 years ago, and yet we are still planting and watching the field grow.

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

In the official view, the harvest began over 100 years ago, and yet we are still planting and watching the field grow.

 

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The wheat and weeds grow together until the harvest, until the angels bundle them. Therefore, if there are still any seeds being planted, and if there are any more Christians growing,

That's my fault. I should have clarified that the wheatlike Christians are supposed to only be the anointed.

Could this whole parable perhaps refer to two groups (weeds and wheat) rather than individual people? And to an event or situation? The first event or situation being that throughout centuries wheatlike Christians were intermingled with weeds (the growing together). Then in the last days, the second event or situation began (the harvest) where there was a separation of those groups who were wheatlike and those who were weeds. In other words the true church was identified and the false church was identified and they were separated from each other (harvested therefor  no longer growing together and intermingled). Then the third event or situation in the future (Armageddon) where the weeds, that have  been harvested (for a 100 years already) will be bundled and burned, and the wheat (that has been separate from the weeds for a 100 years already) will be taken into the storehouse (heaven).

This scenario only works if we assume the wheatike Christians are the anointed, and are counted as a group, rather than individuals.

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

I should have clarified that the wheatlike Christians are supposed to only be the anointed.

I have a letter from the WTS dated in 1922 which answers a question sent in by a Bible Student about the possibility of more persons becoming a part of the "anointed class." The answer simply clarifies that the "door was closed" to new persons of that class in 1881, and that the only persons who might have still been chosen were only chosen in the rare event that someone who had already been chosen in 1881 had proven unfaithful after 1881 but before their final sealing.

This must have already been producing a "generation" problem even as early as 1922 which was 40 years after 1881. (The proofs for the 1881 date were confirmed by quoting some points from Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures.") That same claim about the door closing in 1881 was later used for 1935, along with the same claim of only unfaithful anointed being replaced after 1935. This is no longer stated this way, although there is still a clear level of discouragement associated with new ones who feel they might be of the anointed class.

But, yes, the harvest is primarily the anointed.

*** w13 7/15 p. 10 par. 4 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***

  • Speaking about the wheat and the weeds, Jesus said: “Let both grow together until the harvest.” This command reveals that from the first century until today, there have always been some anointed wheatlike Christians on earth. That conclusion is confirmed by what Jesus later told his disciples: “I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 28:20) So anointed Christians would be protected by Jesus all the days leading up to the time of the end. However, since they were overgrown by weedlike Christians, we do not know for certain who belonged to the wheat class during that long period of time. However, some decades before the start of the harvest season, the wheat class became discernible.

Those "some decades before the start of the harvest season" were then called the "harvest season," a 40 year period from 1874 to 1914, then quickly changed by Rutherford to mean a 40-year period from 1878 to 1918 (a doctrine that lasted through most of Knorr's leadership, too.) It was much more recently that we readjusted the harvest season to a much longer period starting in 1914, sometimes adding "and especially since 1919." Obviously, most of the anointed counted among us have come into the fold after 1919. So we still have a harvest season that has been simultaneous with the growing season.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Could this whole parable perhaps refer to two groups (weeds and wheat) rather than individual people? And to an event or situation? The first event or situation being that throughout centuries wheatlike Christians were intermingled with weeds (the growing together). Then in the last days, the second event or situation began (the harvest) where there was a separation of those groups who were wheatlike and those who were weeds.

I think something like that is possible. After all, there is at least one flaw in my presentation that tries to use the idea that "synteleia" in Greek more often refers to a "final destructive end" not a drawn-out ending or "conclusion." The flaw is that Jesus spoke in another illustration of begging the master of the harvest to send out more harvest workers. Therefore even if the event itself is a singular final end, the harvest work (preparation for harvest) could mean sending people into the field for a longer, extended period of time. This is in the same sense that someone might be involved in election work for months or years before the actual election.

So, that event or situation, if that were the solution, would likely be identified with the time of cleansing of the organization, which has variously been identified prior to 1914, then 1914, sometimes 1918, 1919 (most often), and further hints of "cleansing" have been identified with 1926 (when the elder arrangement was abolished), 1971 (when it was re-instated), etc. etc. One could go back to 1931 or 1935 again, or Splane's famous 1992 date for the end of 1914 generation prior to the overlapping extension.

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19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have a letter from the WTS dated in 1922 which answers a question sent in by a Bible Student about the possibility of more persons becoming a part of the "anointed class." The answer simply clarifies that the "door was closed" to new persons of that class in 1881, and that the only persons who might have still been chosen were only chosen in the rare event that someone who had already been chosen in 1881 had proven unfaithful after 1881 but before their final sealing.

This must have already been producing a "generation" problem even as early as 1922 which was 40 years after 1881. (The proofs for the 1881 date were confirmed by quoting some points from Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures.") That same claim about the door closing in 1881 was later used for 1935, along with the same claim of only unfaithful anointed being replaced after 1935. This is no longer stated this way, although there is still a clear level of discouragement associated with new ones who feel they might be of the anointed class.

But, yes, the harvest is primarily the anointed.

Every time I hear of this "closing the door" from the WT it reminds me of Matthew 23:13

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.

 

 

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@Shiwiii The doors will eventually close, to not realize what is to come very soon only shows that people are sleeping on this matter as if it is water under the bridge. The very reason why there is time for people, for such is indeed Life or Death, this has not changed, and it is known that God has not changed on what his purpose and will entails for the righteous and meek, and what is to come for those who do not adhere to what he requires, what his Word says or his Laws.

The very reason those who are aware are vigilant, enduring, sacrificing, and the list goes on.

Simply being good, is not going to cut it, for there is a lot that is required in building and maintain faith, just as a bodybuilder takes care of his or her body, to maintain muscle and the like by means of exercise, rest and nourishment, the same applies for faith and adhering to what the bible says.

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@tromboneck Unfortunately, people of mainstream Christendom do not take the bible seriously. They think all this adding Levite Laws, these celebrations that have nothing to do with God, man made traditions into the church, etc, further proves the seriousness is not there, for simply being good is not enough, and it most certainly will not help if we have the mainstream turning churches into circuses and molding things of the world into said churches.

 

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Shiwiii The doors will eventually close, to not realize what is to come very soon only shows that people are sleeping on this matter as if it is water under the bridge. The very reason why there is time for people, for such is indeed Life or Death, this has not changed, and it is known that God has not changed on what his purpose and will entails for the righteous and meek, and what is to come for those who do not adhere to what he requires, what his Word says or his Laws.

The very reason those who are aware are vigilant, enduring, sacrificing, and the list goes on.

Simply being good, is not going to cut it, for there is a lot that is required in building and maintain faith, just as a bodybuilder takes care of his or her body, to maintain muscle and the like by means of exercise, rest and nourishment, the same applies for faith and adhering to what the bible says.

I agree with your statement here, but it is NOT the decision of any religious organization or any man as to when and who it shuts on. This is the part that stuck out in my mind and why it reminded me of that scripture. 

Think about the actual context of Chapter 23 of Matthew. Who was this chapter written about? Do we have "scribes" and "Pharisees" today? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

I agree with your statement here, but it is NOT the decision of any religious organization or any man as to when and who it shuts on. This is the part that stuck out in my mind and why it reminded me of that scripture. 

Think about the actual context of Chapter 23 of Matthew. Who was this chapter written about? Do we have "scribes" and "Pharisees" today? 

Last I recall, the Watchtower only have stated that time is indeed short and the end is very near, but even outside of the Watchtower, people are aware that end time and tribulations is and will be upon us and just as in the days of Noah, the doors will be shut and at that time, it will be too late. You yourself have to realize that, for that is pretty much the common conclusion to which people who adhere to scripture will recognize and be aware of. Speaking about Noah, when the door to the Ark have been shut, it was shut by God himself (Genesis 7:16, 17) and clearly when the people who were doing what they do (Luke 17:27) became suspect, it was already too late. The same can be said for Sodom and Gomorah whereas as to their counterpart, Nineveh, wised up when God sent Jonah.

Indeed, there are false ones out there, some far worse than others, who derive people away from what the Bible says, this is also said in Luke 11:42. Among them would be pastors, teachers, even church goers themselves who push something that is not of the Bible, those who not only follow God's Laws, but such ones who preach and attempt to convince others not to follow God's Laws, in addition, that of which Jesus had entrusted the church to do. We have such ones who apply Traditions of Men into the church, for if I last recall, I will take an example of a pastor you brought up before, 

    Hello guest!
, known as the Hipster Pastor by some, also known as a voice actor for one of
    Hello guest!
. The current churches of our day teach that Jesus Christ is God, when the bible says otherwise, they practice things that are not biblical yet call themselves Christians, the list goes on and on when it comes to false prophets, but out of the fold, there are those who strive to do what is true and seek what is true and for that reason true Christians do not mess around with such ones, but should any falsehood be made against the latter, a correction is to be made.

At the same time, one has to be have to be very mindful of those who actually attempt to seek what the truth is or attempt to follow it because any misstep can put you before God's throne for judgement, the very reason by my stance is pretty much neutral and not being gullible to misconceptions.

Furthermore, false ones are deemed hypocrites or make claims of 100% inspiration when they do something other than what the bible says, or that of the first church of the early Christians.

For there is  big line between those who stray away from actually attempting to seek what is true and on the other side there are those who do their best to follow what the bible says while seeking truth, just as there is no middle ground here, it is in the same regard for both life and death.

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12 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You yourself have to realize that,

You YOURSELF have to realize the context of what I wrote concerning the "letter" that JW Insider has a copy of. 

What does that letter state? Here is a quote from JW Insider 

23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have a letter from the WTS dated in 1922 which answers a question sent in by a Bible Student about the possibility of more persons becoming a part of the "anointed class." The answer simply clarifies that the "door was closed" to new persons of that class in 1881, and that the only persons who might have still been chosen were only chosen in the rare event that someone who had already been chosen in 1881 had proven unfaithful after 1881 but before their final sealing.

 

23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

That same claim about the door closing in 1881 was later used for 1935,

Who closed that door? Oh yeah, the wt, as stated in the letter. 

 

17 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Indeed, there are false ones out there, some far worse than others, who derive people away from what the Bible says, this is also said in Luke 11:42. Among them would be pastors, teachers, even church goers themselves who push something that is not of the Bible, those who not only follow God's Laws, but such ones who preach and attempt to convince others not to follow God's Laws, in addition, that of which Jesus had entrusted the church to do.

I quite agree.

 

18 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I will take an example of a pastor you brought up before, 

    Hello guest!
,

please refresh my memory, when did I quote/refer to this Jeff Durbin? I'm not saying I didn't, just want to make sure we are on the same page. 

 

 

How can you write so much but yet not address what I mentioned? If you are going to respond to my post,  respond!  

 I think, like another has posted, that you try and write so much that the real topic bets buried under your ramblings about nothing relevant to the topic discussion. 

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    • By BroRando
      The Great Tribulation, not what you think.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. /applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"> The Great Tribulation is a 'timed event'. As in past Patterns of Prophecy, "Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Jehovah's servants where given insight to a Prophecy regarding the sudden arrival of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  in the Book of Daniel. In 29 CE the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This timed event {prophecy} was thus fulfilled in its entirety from 29 CE to 36 CE. 
      If there is one thing you take away from this article, gain the understanding that Prophecies have a beginning and an end. With this understanding, you can SEE our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ coming with the clouds. The sacred secret of understanding prophecy is the slow revealing of it called the manifestation. Therefore, in response the Jews said to him: “What sign can you show us, since you are doing these things?”  Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   How long is a day? "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) According to (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) the winds of the Great Tribulation are held back until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads. If a day is a thousand years, we can glean the meaning of when the prophecy to be fulfilled. The sealing event began with the outpouring of Holy Spirit on Pentecost 33 CE and would be completed by 2033 CE, the second day. This sealing event would pave the way for the Great Tribulation to take place. It would also pave the way for the Preaching Work to be brought to its End. In fulfillment of Prophecy, Jesus stated that a work would need to be done. "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Another Prophecy that points to the year 2034 for the Salvation of Jehovah's Servants goes on to say. "He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain, Like a spring rain that saturates the earth.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) After two days, on the third day he will raise us up. The third day of Christ is upon us in 2034. However, the Great Tribulation is not what you think. Did you notice how this Day unfolds? We will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain, Like a spring rain that saturates the earth. Are you gaining Spiritual Insight?   So what Scripture is the trigger for the Great Tribulation? "Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) The Great Tribulation is an outbreak of “Peace and security!” It's Spiritual. This scripture is actually an inspired expression from the demons to persuade the masses into destruction. "And I saw three unclean inspired expressions that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Since the false prophet has a part in deceiving the people in a false proclamation of prosperity, false religion will be brought to her end by the means of the wild beast that are the earthly political kings. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  Through the demonic expression of “Peace and security!” notice how the destruction is to be instantly on them. "They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )     "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Those who choose to alienate themselves from Jehovah God and continue to reject Christ Presence will be destroyed by dying the second death, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, they will by no means escape. Not only is the Great Tribulation Spiritual, so is Armageddon, the war of the great day of God the Almighty. Sometime after 2034, the wicked will witness our brothers and sisters living pass the 70 or 80 years. "All the peoples of the earth will have to see that Jehovah’s Name has been called upon you, and they will be Afraid of you." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   After the wicked witness our brothers and sisters surviving beyond the 70 or 80 years, Gog of Magog, that is Satan's entire Political Systems will come to bring harm to Jehovah's Witnesses. "And I will send fire against Maʹgog and against those who are inhabiting the islands in security, and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.  I will make my holy name known among my people Israel, and I will not allow My Holy Name to be profaned any longer; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel. Yes, this is coming, and it will be done,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘This is the day I have spoken about." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By BroRando
      "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal,  having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness,  betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,  having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (pangs of distress) do not last for an exhaustive period of time but do have an ending to them. It's an allotment period of time of 120 years, like the Days of Noah. This allotment is a Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Better times lay ahead of us as the pangs of distress come to their end, but not for everyone. “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Notice that harm to the earth, sea, or trees are being withheld until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads. Once the total number of the 144,000 are sealed, then a colossal of other prophecies begin to become fulfilled. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  and turning back will no longer be a recourse once the 144,000 are sealed, which will bring the end of ungodly people as they begin dying a permanant death with No Ressurection. (The Second Death)   The question about this prophecy is when. Will it be revealed in the future, or are we living it now? In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the “time of trouble” on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly.   Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such neglect the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.”   International Bible Students Association: "Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands."   What does Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  represent? The Epiphany of Christ's Presence. The Epiphany was spoken of in the same article “END OF WORLD IN 1914?" It represents that Ah-ah moment of the realization of an undergoing prophecy. Jehovah's people will start to notice their health is generally getting better a little at a time and start sharing these revelations with one another. Notice how the wicked and lawless will be destroyed? "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and Bring to Nothing by the Manifestation of his Presence." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   This is where it is critical to gain the understanding of what the Great Tribulation is. The Great Tribulation is marked by an outbreak of "Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "  During this time of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  among the nations, the Bible reveals, "Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing?  The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   The Presence of the Son of of Man began in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.  All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   "For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the Presence of the Son of man will be." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Are you gaining the understanding that these things are fulfilled in a Spiritual Manner? Ever since Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , right-hearted ones have been witnessing the Presence of the Son of man. AfterHello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , the wicked will also start to gain the understanding that they are really dying and lament all the way to everlasting destruction.   As the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  come to their conclusion and the seperating work is completed, even the wicked will SEE but after it is too late! Yes, the Revealing of the Son of Man will soon begin for the 'ungodly' as we head into Christ Millennial Reign.   What is the 'sudden destruction' that comes upon those, once the pangs of distress comes to their end? The Bible reveals it in this manner: "And this is the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples who wage war against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot away while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot away in their sockets, and their tongues will rot away in their mouths." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Those who are figuratively hurled into Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , die 'the second death' which symbolizes everlasting destruction.    Once 'the wicked' witness Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. that's our brothers and sisters (the sheep) living beyond the 70 or 80 years. Gog of Magog will come to destroy God's Name People. At the time, the goats within our 144,000 Congregations will have been separated to join all Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . "In that day confusion from Jehovah will be widespread among them; and each one will grab hold of the hand of his companion, and his hand will come against the hand of his companion." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) So it is written, so it shall come to pass! IF you love Justice, and hate Injustice, why not take a stand today by asking for a Free Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  or take an Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ?   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By BroRando
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The Bible describes the events that will occur before and after the identification of Gog of Magog. Most have not yet gained the understanding that Armageddon begins as a Spiritual Event and then Ends as a Literal One. The Last Days are cut short in the sense that Gog of Magog's Attack on God's Named People are stifled and held in check, and 'they will not cause any harm or any ruin in all my holy mountain'. (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This EVENT could very well last 1,000 years while Satan and his demons are put in a deathlike state of inactivity.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  is the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign. The Great Crowd enters “the times of restoration of all things” that expands to include physical blessings for faithful humans on earth. These one's keep on living as they come out of the Last Days as Survivors. The wicked continue getting sick, growing old, and continue dying. But their death is a permanent one called the second death of an everlasting destruction. With that said, is it over? No. Jehovah will keep providing protection for the earth by means of his Heavenly Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the 144,000. Notice what occurs at the end of the 1,000 years. "Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison,  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      The Climax of Armageddon ends with the destruction of Satan and anyone else who rejects Jehovah's Sovereignty after the 1,000 years have passed. Handing the Kingdom back to his God and Father, Jesus will have brought mankind to the same perfect condition that Adam and Eve had prior to sinning. It is possible that the Great Crowd that Survives both the Great tribulation and Satan's final rebellion may be blessed with immortality. I'm not prophesizing this will occur, but all things are possible with Jehovah.

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    • By BroRando
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. /applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"> Prophecies point to the 'timing' of the coming days as a Day of Vindication of Jehovah's Name. There are two years within Jehovah's Organization that can give us insight to the timing of the coming Vindication. Knowing these dates do not give anyone divine protection or superpowers. Matter of fact, knowing such dates and understanding them can make one more accountable to Jehovah. Serving Jehovah with a Full Heart no matter what date comes and goes should be our Priority.   If you followed and read articles I have written in the past, you well know about the years 1914 and 2034. But those are not the two years I am speaking about. The two dates I am speaking about are the ones that certain events occurred within God's organization here on the earth. (1919 and 1935) Those on the outside will result in (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) as the 'Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ' come to their end.   In Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , shortly after the Last Days began in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Jesus Christ would direct the angels to bundle up the weeds in order to be pitched into the fire to be burned up. The weeds are Apostate Christians whom stopped associating with Christ's Brothers. Today, those who have followed the steps of Judas Iscariot are referred to as the man of lawlessness who make the false claim they are part of the 'Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. '. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) These ones are being collected on an individual basis in the time of the end for undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. In the same manner that the tree of life was protected by angels and a flaming sword, these impostors also known as the sons of disobedience restlessly attack the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  that is still earthly. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This attack will soon be cut short as the remnant are suddenly summoned to Heaven. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  is also a year that has significance. That was the time when an earthly hope was revealed in the Book of Revelation as to having Survivors of the Great Tribulation. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Just before the sudden departure of the remnant, the King begins Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  with good health and life in a gradual manner. Those who are marked, simply keep on living from the Conclusion of the Last Days into Christ's Millennial Reign. It's Spiritual. In a few short years, the wicked will begin to noticed that God's Named People are no longer getting sick. Why aren't they dying? With mouths of foam and fraught and delusion, they slowly slide away into the Second Death. Those who join the forces of Gog of Magog will be met with angels and the flaming sword on a massive scale to protect those who have washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb.   When Jehovah approached Noah at the age of 480 by the means of an angel, Noah didn't know of the time allotted to build the ark. It's not likely he even had a family at this point. We only learn of the 'allotted time limit' when Moses wrote about it in (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Jesus Christ kept reminding his disciples, 'just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man:' (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This gives us strong indication that those who are cut off have no idea of what is going on. But notice this next scripture, "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   As these time periods come and go, the wicked who have No Understanding will become more vile but the scripture promises,  'they will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain'. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )  This scripture proves that there will come a point in time that Jehovah will not allow 'the wicked' to do harm or cause ruin in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  nor allow his Holy Name to be profaned.    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By Pudgy
      Questions From Readers
      ● Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. says: “Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.” What does this text mean? Are not the physical heavens and earth a permanent part of God’s creation?—U.S.A.
      In determining the significance of the apostle Peter’s statement, we must remember that the terms “heavens” and “earth” often do not designate the physical heavens and earth, which are an abiding part of God’s creation. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) A notable example of this are the words of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. regarding the day of Jehovah’s triumph over Babylon: “I shall cause heaven itself to become agitated, and the earth will rock out of its place at the fury of Jehovah of armies and at the day of his burning anger.”
      Obviously the fall of ancient Babylon resulted in no agitation of the physical heavens—sun, moon, stars and planets—nor was the literal earth rocked out of its place. But, figuratively speaking, the heavens and the earth were affected. How so? Well, we might recall that the Babylonians worshiped the sun and moon as well as the stars and planets as gods or goddesses. So when these deities proved unable to help Babylon in her greatest time of need, her “heavens” became agitated. Also the “earth” of the Babylonian Empire rocked out of its place. Babylon lost control of this vast portion of the earth upon being defeated and becoming a mere province of the Persian Empire.
      The case of Babylon illustrates that the heavenly bodies have been viewed as representing powers higher than men, powers that have exercised controlling influence over mankind. The worship that has been given to these heavenly bodies has actually gone to invisible spirit forces higher than men, namely, to Satan the Devil and his demons. This is evident from the apostle Paul’s declaration: “The things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      Yes, God’s Word clearly shows that Satan and his demons constitute a “heaven” over the human society alienated from Jehovah God. The apostle Paul, for example, referred to “wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places,” with their governments, authorities and world rulers. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) And Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. tells us: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”
      So it must be the heavens composed of Satan and his demons that “will pass away with a hissing noise.” A fierce, devouring flame of great magnitude makes a loud hissing sound, as, for example, in the burning of a house or a forest. Of course, literal fire would be ineffective in bringing an end to Satan and his demons. But the wicked heavens will not escape the expression of God’s rage, spoken of in Scripture as burning like a fire. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) That the Satanic and demonic heavens will pass away is confirmed in the book of Revelation. After having seen a vision of the complete defeat of Satan’s forces and the casting of Satan into the abyss, the apostle John noted that the “former heaven and the former earth had passed away.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      The “former heaven” not being literal, the “former earth” likewise is not literal. According to Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , not the physical earth, but the kings of the earth and their armies are the ones in line for destruction. Thus the “former earth” designates the wicked human society under the control of Satan and his demons. This identification of the “earth” is in agreement with the fact that, in Biblical usage, the term “earth” can denote earth’s inhabitants.—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      Accordingly, no “elements” (or constituent parts) of the symbolic heavens and earth will be able to withstand the intense heat of God’s burning anger. They will be completely “dissolved.” The words of Peter somewhat parallel the thought expressed at Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. : “‘The day is coming that is burning like the furnace, and all the presumptuous ones and all those doing wickedness must become as stubble. And the day that is coming will certainly devour them,’ Jehovah of armies has said, ‘so that it will not leave to them either root or bough.’”
      The earth, the ungodly human society, and its works will be “discovered” (the Greek word for “discovered” appears in the two oldest and most reliable Bible manuscripts available, the Vatican 1209 and the Sinaitic). This means that the wicked human society and its works will be seared bare of all disguise, exposed as being against Jehovah God and his kingdom by Christ and therefore worthy of destruction. By means of his Son, Christ Jesus, and multitudes of faithful angels, Jehovah God will see to it that none of the wicked works will go undiscovered and unpunished. A comparable idea is conveyed at Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. : “Jehovah is coming forth from his place to call to account the error of the inhabitant of the land against him, and the land will certainly expose her bloodshed and will no longer cover over her killed ones.”
      If we desire to withstand the consuming heat that will blaze against the old heavens and earth, we must make it our determination to know and to follow the course approved by Jehovah God. As Peter encouraged fellow Christians: “Do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. . . . be on your guard that you may not be led away with [the untaught and unsteady] by the error of the law-defying people and fall from your own steadfastness. No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ."
      END OF WATCHTOWER ARTICLE
      The previous explanation to me is complex, impossible for any rational person to understand, and is built on a web of improbabilities.
      The first time I read this Scripture, so many years ago, it seemed crystal clear that what was being described as Global Thermonuclear War.  It made perfect sense to me then, and it makes perfect sense to me now ... and it fits the progression of world events, and just plain makes the only sense one can make of that Scripture.
      The Society's explanation seems like another "Question fro Readers" question that has been bumping around the Internet since about 1995, "Are Cats For True Christians", which many here have read many times.
    • By BroRando
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

      "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) The Bible does point to conditions and a timetable to expect when such prophecies will be fulfilled. Therefore, a certain amount of time would be needed to pass in order for the end to be brought forth. Notice the following verses as it pertains to time.

      "He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain, Like a spring rain that saturates the earth." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) We see the timetable is two days. "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )

      This Bible Principle is the Key to gain the understanding of where we are according to the time of the end. "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )

      One can reason on the timing of the end by applying the Bible Principle found at (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) to other scriptures. For instance, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) When did this sealing event begin? On Pentecost 33 CE with the outpouring of Holy Spirit. We can expect this sealing process to be completed by the second day of 2033 CE. This would suggest that the preaching work and the partaking of the emblems would soon come to their end since the sealing is 'a timed event'. This sets us up for Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. to begin, does it not?

      Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” As shown at Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Jesus was using figurative speech; he was comparing his anticipated death and resurrection to the demolition and reconstruction of the temple. Although Jesus said: “I will raise it up,” the Scriptures clearly show that it was God who resurrected him. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) So what body was Jesus speaking about? "But he was talking about the temple of his body." Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )

      The temple of his body is the 'Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ' which is a composite body that is made up of 144,000 body members who rule as kings and priests. "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
        "Now you are Christ’s body, and each of you individually is a member." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) "Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
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    • By BroRando
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. /applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"> What to expect? You can expect a ton of persons to become immediately interested in the Bible, once we stop offering New Bible Studies. The time to think about it a little longer will have come to its end. "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Jesus in private told his disciples, "For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Notice Jesus compared the days of Noah to his Presence, they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away. Therefore, we can conclude that both Prophecies are 'timed events'. Time and again Jesus kept reminding his disciples just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. How long were the days of Noah? Then Jehovah said: “My spirit will not tolerate man indefinitely, because he is only flesh. Accordingly, his days will amount to 120 years.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   We can be certain to expect a plethora of events to unfold in a timely manner at the end of Christ's Presence, sweeping the ungodly away, but not in the manner you think...   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Proclamation of “Peace and security!” Nations attack and destroy “Babylon the Great” Attack on Jehovah’s people War of Armageddon Satan and his demons are abyssed   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By BroRando
      The 40 year refinement period is a Biblical Pattern that has been used over and over again. This 'period of testing' is a purity test to bring out impurities or help build up faith. It can also be used in referring judgement in a positive or negative outcome. In some cases, the period can be days rather than years. Moses, Elijah, and Jesus all fasted for 40 days. However, a 40 year refinement period in triplicate intensifies the seriousness of the judgment coming for those unable or unwilling to be refined. For example, the intensity of the 'woes' to come to those dwelling on earth is forecast by the triple repetition of the declaration “woe.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Can each "woe" represent a 40 year period of refinement? If it does, can we expect the 'woes' to come to their end? Brother Russell referred to the end of the Gentiles in 1914 to be followed by 'a time of trouble'. So wouldn't the time of trouble have a beginning and an end to them? (1914 + 120 = 2034) When 'the time of trouble' ends, then what?  Ever since 1914, Satan has been building his organization on earth 'to go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.' (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This organization was first called the League of Nations, then was revived by Satan as the United Nations today. So how are the kings of the entire inhabited earth being gathered? By Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .   17 Goals to Transform Our World, the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development. The Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. are a call for action by all countries – poor, rich and middle-income – to promote prosperity while protecting the planet. They recognize that ending poverty must go hand-in-hand with strategies that build economic growth and address a range of social needs including education, health, social protection, and job opportunities, while tackling climate change and environmental protection." Therefore the prophecy, "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name" at (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) will have come in Full Force. A door to door enforcement if need be.   Soon, the 'woes' will come to their end and the demons will shout with glee! The Great Tribulation begins with propaganda of an outbreak of “Peace and security!” Satan's earthly kings will be astounded and take credit for this false hope as they enter into everlasting destruction, like that of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. At this point in time, invisible to the human eye, Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, extending his Father's Life Force to the sheep Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The faithful keep on living from Satan's System into Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. the wicked die off in the same manner as Adam and Eve with a shortened life span. "All the peoples of the earth will have to See that Jehovah’s name has been called upon you, and they will be afraid of you." (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Those looking back can lament all they want, but unknown to themselves, are dying the second death of everlasting destruction, having no Recourse and will finally come to know it!   2034 is not an end all date either, the separation work and the summoning of the anointed remnant will cover a little time as our brothers and sisters become survivors of the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  The Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. have reach their end. There is a point in time coming that a Survivor may even Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  on a Paradise earth? More study is required as such ones are not given life within themselves but rather everlasting life in view. In time we will know. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
    • By Srecko Sostar
      How were Jehovah's Witnesses taught in 1941 about Armageddon? And marriage/children? Does that remind you of 1975? Or of some periods of time in JW teachings before and after these years? Don’t be bored and find it difficult to review the statements written in the main magazine The Watchtower, the 1941 edition. 
      And the newly published book of the same year by the President of the Society, Judge Rutherford. The book is called Children. The author dedicated this book, as well as many others, to the Creator. Today, after such a long time lag, we may ask, could all these doctrines and teachings have been accepted by the Creator to whom they were dedicated? And we may ask many more!
      So, do you ready? Put on your seat belt!  
       
       
      WT magazines quotes about Armageddon in the year 1941
       
      All the physical facts now indicate the battle of Armageddon is quite near, when the real fighting takes place and the enemy will be destroyed. January 1 Page 10
      They see the evidence corroborating scriptures that Armageddon is very near, when God will avenge the wrongs of his people. January 1 Page 11
      THAT THE RELIEF and blessings of the peoples of earth can come only by and through Jehovah's kingdom under Christ, which has now begun; January 15 Page 2
      It therefore appears to be certain that Armageddon, that great battle of God Almighty, is near at hand. January 15 Page 19
       
      When will Jehovah put an end to wickedness in the earth' The Scriptures answer that at the time 'when the wicked spring up like grass and the lawless flourish'. That is now, because never was there so much wickedness on earth; and that means that Armageddon is very near. (Ps. 92: 7,8 ) February 1 Page 44
       
      This Testimony Period, covering the month of April, will be world-wide, and brings to a climax the three-month campaign With The Watchtower. Those looking for the early appearance of "the sign" for Armageddon to begin will not slack the hand in this final month of the campaign, but rather intensify their efforts, and unquestionably more Theocratic publishers will enter the field. March 15 Page 2
       
      The prophetic song therefore foretold the "strange work" of Jehovah now in progress and which takes place just preceding the battle of Armageddon, and that battle is now quickly to follow. April 1 Page 99
      Particularly since 1931 the worldly rulers have been served with notice of warning, and now the remnant of Jehovah's witnesses and their companions will do what they can for the people of good-Will that they may hear the message and take their stand. While darkness covers the world, Jehovah continues to turn his light upon his faithful ones, giving them a more wonderful vision of his Word than they ever expected to have while on the earth. This strongly suggests that the battle of Armageddon is near. April 1 Page 109
      Jehovah's witnesses are now thoroughly hated by all such opposers, and they would find some apparently legal excuse to destroy Jehovah's Witnesses. There is still some witness work to be done amongst the people, and preparation is now being made for the final plague to be visited upon Satan's organization at Armageddon. April 15 Page 122
      Jehovah told Moses that the death of the firstborn would take place at midnight, this to mean, in the modern-day fulfillment, at a time of the world's blackness or darkest period. The blackness of darkness is now upon the world, and must continue until Armageddon April 15 Page 123
       
      The time is short now till the universal war of Armageddon, and the privileges are great beyond the description of human words.  May 15 Page 159
       
      Now, before Armageddon, which is near, they have the opportunity of wholly devoting themselves to the Lord and entering upon the "highway", and, continuing faithful, may ''be hid in the day of the Lord's anger" at Armageddon and thus be of the "great multitude" of Armageddon survivors.  June 15 Page 189
       
      , and that all who have learned of Jehovah and his kingdom and have then forgotten God and turned away to the "beggarly elements" of the world, and also all who fail and refuse to hear and obey God and his King, shall go down at Armageddon, which is near. July 1 Page 202
      The fact that in all the nations Jehovah's witnesses are now hated and persecuted is strong circumstantial evidence that the witness work is about completed and that Armageddon is very near. July 1 Page 202
      The evildoers are headed for destruction. The lot of the evil or wicked is most undesirable and is shunned by all persons who desire righteousness. The end of the wicked is near. Their time is short. The day of Armageddon is near, and at that time all who remain on Satan's side shall suffer destruction. The lot of those who have fled to the THEOCRATIC ORGANIZATION is the blessed one. July 15 Page 218
       
      The righteous Ruler is Christ Jesus, and his work first performed as King is to cause a witness to be given in the earth of and concerning the kingdom of righteousness, and then to completely oust the wicked from rule, and this he will do at Armageddon; and all the facts and the Scriptures show that that great event is near at hand. August 1 Page 229
      At Armageddon, which is near, Christ Jesus, the great King now present, will destroy the wicked, clear them off the earth, and make the way for righteousness and righteous rule to ever thereafter follow. August 1 Page 235
      ..because already his power had been exhibited in another manner at the Flood, which was prophetic of the battle of Armageddon now at hand. August 1 Page 239
       
      "CHILDREN" Announced and released Sunday morning, August 10, at the Theocratic Assembly of Jehovah's witnesses m St. Louis, Mo., and at the conclusion of the climax speech on "Children of The King", the new book Children won instant acclaim from the thousands assembled. Written by Judge Rutherford, Children bids fair, as shown by Its mitial reception at St. Louis, to be his most popular book, and with good reason. It is written m narrative and conversational style, presenting interestingly and simply the latest Bible truths concerning the glorious hope early to be realized by the persons of good-will today living. Children is bound in sky-blue cloth, with an embossed, gold-stamped cover design that is unusual. The text within is adorned with frequent color illustrations, and is supplemented with an index of subjects. You will prize the author's edition as it contains the facsimile of a special letter in the author's own hand and addressed "To the Children of the King". You may obtain it on a contribution of 50c a copy, mailed prepaid to you. This edition is limited. September 1
      Now the nations of the earth are in the throes of death, and soon Armageddon, the battle of that great day of God Almighty, will be fought, and in which Christ shall be completely victorious, pushing out and destroying every wicked thing. September 1 Page 263
      Since Armageddon is near at hand it would seem wise for those who hope to be of the "great multitude", and therefore to fulfill the divine mandate, to wait upon the Lord and seek his direction and ask him to guide them and make selection of a companion. September 1 Page 264
      A Christian can now, before Armageddon, refuse to sympathize with or support in any way the Devil's organization which shall be completely destroyed at Armageddon. September 1 Page 271
      Cartons of Children that had been deposited in The Arena were now opened, and Judge Rutherford instructed the children how to come and each get a copy thereof, those in the rear half of The Arena marching in two columns out through a side exit, and those in the front half of The Arena marching up over the platform and out through a rear exit. As the march began, the orchestra (minus all its children instrumentalists) struck up and rendered songs, "Children of the Heavenly King," "The Sword of the Lord and of Gideon," and "Who Is on the Lord's Side'" while the vast audience sang. Never was there a more moving Sight in these "last days". Many, including strong men, wept at the demonstration. Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided Instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon. What a gift I and to so many! The manner of releasing the new book Children was an outnght surprise to all, but the almighty hand of the All-wise One, Jehovah, was in it, and the maneuver was most blessed indeed. Thereafter Children, the author's edition, was disposed of to adult conventioners, on a contribution.    September 15 Page 288
       
      The great battle of Armageddon is approaching ...... That will be done in the great time of trouble at Armageddon, which is impending. October 1 Page 302
      The declaration of the day of his vengeance is one part of the commission he gives to his anointed witnesses; therefore these anointed ones, in order to be faithful, must perform that commission now before Armageddon.-Isa. 61: 1, 2.   October 15 Page 318
      All the physical facts now indicate the battle of Armageddon is quite near, when the real fighting takes place and the enemy will be destroyed. Soon Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will fight against the enemy as he did In time~ of old, and will completely cut to pieces the enemy, and deliver all those who remain faithful and true to Theocracy.   October 15 Page 319
       
      Regardless of the incoming of willter then, December marks another month-long season of special united activity known as "Great Multitude" Testimony Period. Those persons of good-will who shall form part of the "great multitude" of Armageddon survivors are now quickly coming forth are the wintertime of Armageddon sets in on the world, and they will, in increasing numbers, take part with the remnant members in this united Testimony.  November 1
      While no man yet knows the day nor the hour that Armageddon will begin, "the signs of the times" show that Armageddon is very near; therefore Jehovah bids his faithful servants now on the earth to 'redeem the time' and to 'slack not the hand' in his "strange work", the witness work....... In the meantime, and from now till Armageddon, the Lord's four angels hold back the four winds until the work of Jehovah's "sealed" servants is finished.- Rev. 7: 1-4.  November 1 Page 325
      The entire movement of Satan's crowd is carried on to the end that the Hierarchy and their allies may soon be able to say, "Peace and safety"; then will follow Armageddon. November 1 Page 327
      All nations hate Jehovah's covenant people because that people declare the name and kingdom, The THEOCRATIC GOVERNMENT, of Almighty God. "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."-Matt. 24: 9. OT The crucial test, which must persist until Armageddon, is proof that now is the last time.   November 1 Page 330
      Because of the importance to the covenant people of God, individually and collectively, and because of the great opportunity to glorify God, now that the hour is approaching for the great and final visitation of Jehovah God upon the nations of the earth at Armageddon, every one of his devoted people is urged to put forth the greatest possible zeal and earnestness in the representation of his Theocratic Government.  November 1 Page 335
      God's visitation upon the nations will reach a climax in the great time of trouble, Armageddon, now near. November 15 Page 351
       
      Book CHILDREN, published in 1941
       
      All the facts show that the woes beginning in 1914 have continued to increase upon the earth, and at the present time the distress and woes are greater than ever before known, and this indicates that Armageddon is very near.-Revelation 16: 13-16. Page 151
       
      Since 1925 particularly Jehovah's witnesses have carried the kingdom message and placed it within the hearing of the people, which message tells of the day of vengeance of our God, and that it is very near. Page 208
       
      Armageddon, the battle of that great day of God Almighty, is drawing near. Page 253
       
      In the near future the wrath of Almighty God against all wickedness will be expressed at Armageddon in the most devastating tribulation the world will ever have known. Page 336
       
      Armageddon is surely near, and during that time the Lord will clean off the earth everything that offends and is disagreeable. Page 366
       
      Should men and women, both of whom are Jonadabs or "other sheep" of the Lord, now marry before Armageddon and bring forth children They may choose to do so, but the admonition or advice of the Scriptures appears to be against it. Being married before Armageddon and both continuing faithful and surviving Armageddon, their marital relationship shall continue and persist after Armageddon. They receive their right to life everlasting after Armageddon, and after receiving that right to life their children then born would be born in righteousness. Page 312
       
      That would appear to indicate it would be proper that those who will form the"great multitude" should wait until after Armageddon to bring children into the world. Page 313
      (similar advice was in the '80 too)
       
      It is only a few years from the time the "other sheep" are gathered to the Lord until Armageddon. That entire period is a time of much tribulation, concluding with the greatest tribulation the world will ever have known. Speaking of that very time, Jesus says: "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"-Matthew 24: 19, 21. Page 313
       
      PS  Apologize for some grammar errors cause of copy/paste from PDF. 
       
    • By Witness
      “For behold, in those days and at that time,
      When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
      I will also gather all nations,
      And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
      And I will enter into judgment with them there
      On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
      Whom they have scattered among the nations;
      They have also divided up My land.”  Joel 3:1,2
                                                               
      I wanted to get a physical picture in my mind of what the Bible’s “Valley of Jehoshaphat” really looked like.  That is easier said than done, since some historians believe that its true location could be in a valley called Barachah (“blessing”), located eleven miles or more from Jerusalem.  There it is believed that the Judean King Jehoshaphat sought God’s help to defeat the coalition of three enemy Gentile nations.  (2 Chron 20:1)  Then again, it is widely accepted that it refers to a valley within the Kidron Valley, which lies between the ancient Temple mount and the Mount of Olives.  That too, is considered the possible site where Judah was delivered from the enemy nations.
      Many today believe the Kidron Valley will be the focus of a literal judgment of all nations in the world, for their treatment of the physical nation of Israel.  Its location is the site of Jewish tombs on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, and an incredible number of burial sites of professed Christians and Muslims within the valley. I was surprised to learn that people desire to be buried there, where supposedly the resurrection will occur when Jesus is said to walk through the “golden gate” of the temple ruins (based on Zech 14:4
      Still, it is a correct belief by some scholars that Joel’s words refer solely to the time of final judgment, the decision making by God of the righteous and the unrighteous, during Armageddon. (Eccl 3:17; 1 Pet 3:12) “Jehoshaphat means “YHWH has judged”. 
      "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
      For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision."  Joel 3:14  
      (Some translations say, "Commotion, commotion"...)
      But, what happened to the three raiding nations that came against Judah during King Jehoshaphat’s reign?  God spoke to the king through the prophet Jahaziel, the son of Zechariah,
      “Listen, all Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem and King Jehoshaphat, thus says YHWH to you: ‘Do not be afraid and do not be dismayed before this great multitude, for the battle is not yours, but God’s.  17 There will be no need for you to fight in this battle. Take your stand! Stand and see the deliverance of YHWH among you, O Judah and Jerusalem! Do not fear and do not be dismayed. Tomorrow go out before them and YHWH will be with you.’” 2 Chron 20:15-17
      God put it in the hearts of the enemy to turn on each other, without Judah lifting one sword.  When the last nation stood alone, “each helped to destroy his comrade”.  2 Chron 20:22,23
      I know it’s hard to imagine for most of us, but we are in the middle of Armageddon.  Our own spiritual choices, affect God’s ultimate decision of our worthiness to receive eternal life, made in the symbolic “valley of decision”.  (Dan 7:9,10; Zeph 3:8; John 12:48; Heb 3:7-11; Rev 20:12) 
      But, before this final judgment is completed by God, a spiritual war is in progress, raging within and outside the organization’s borders.  (Rev 12:7; Eph 6:12; 5:11; 2 Cor 10:3-5; Rev 9:1-4;13:1,6,7;16:13-16; 20: 7-9)
      It is a necessary war between truth spoken by the faithful kings of Christ, and lies pouring out of the mouth of those kings who have fallen from God’s grace.  (Heb 3:12; 12:15; Acts 20:29-30; 1 Cor 11:19; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12; 16:13,14)
      They are the “false prophets” of spiritual “Israel” who war against their brothers using lies and deceit. (Matt 7:15; 24:4,5, 24,25; 1 John 3:10; 1 Tim 4:1)
      They have joined forces with a strong “Gentile” Wild Beast, beneficial for dominating, persecuting, and “killing” God’s holy people - the “prophets, sages and scribes” sent to them with the message of Christ’s truth.  (Isa 66:5; Matt 23:34-36; 24:9-12,49; John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 9:1; Dan 7:25; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,15; 11:3,7,8; 18:24)
      Eventually, this massive army will form an alliance with those of “Israel” who still adhere to the organization.  Single-mindedly, they will commit the very act already carried out upon others, the disfellowshipping/”killing” of both spiritual “Jews” and “Gentiles” who wake up to the organization’s lies and hypocrisy.    In this case, ‘each will help to destroy his comrade’. God will put into their hearts to terminate the rulership of the corrupt, deceitful governing “kings”/Harlot.  (Ezek 16:35-37; 38:21; Rev 17:12,13,15-17)
      "For the eyes of the LORD roam throughout the earth to show himself strong for those who are wholeheartedly devoted to him. You have been foolish in this matter. Therefore, you will have wars from now on." 2 Chron 16:9
      Proclaim this among the nations:
      “Prepare for war!
      Wake up the mighty men,
      Let all the men of war draw near,
      Let them come up.
      10 Beat your plowshares into swords
      And your pruning hooks into spears;
      Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ ”
      11 Assemble and come, all you nations,
      And gather together all around.
      Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O Lord.”
      “And when you hear about wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must happen, but the end is not yet.  For nation will rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places. There will be famines. These things are the beginning of birth pains.”     Mark 13:7,8
       
      Christ is not the Destroyer. Christ conducts spiritual warfare, with the "sword of his mouth" (Rev 19:15; 1:16; Heb 4:12; Eph 6:17).
      He is King of Truth, and the Battle is with the deceptions of death... the mouth of Satan (John 8:44; 2 Cor 4:4; Rev 12:15; 16:13,14; 20:7,8). 
       Those on the side of truth listen to Christ, and carry forward to completion, Christ's war against the darkness, along with their Lord (Rev 17:14; 119:11-14,8;6:9-11) (Luke 22:69; Matt 28:18; John 18:37; Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15:25).
      Satan's messengers resist, and work to subjugate Truth, and the work of Christ's Ambassadors (Rev 12:7; Eph 6:12; 5:11; 2 Cor 10:3-5).
      God's interest regarding war, is limited to spiritual warfare (Gen 3:15; Rev 12:17,10,11). The obscene and futile warfare of Satan's world, has no place in the purposes of God. That world was abandoned at the beginning, by its own will. That will, and the abandonment which results, will remain undeterred. For good reason, the name of its god, is Destroyer.
      Pearl Doxsey, “What Hope for Satan’s World”
       
      There is a point in this war, where God will say, enough is enough.  (Ezek 7:1-4)
      "Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
      For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
      Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
      Come, go down;
      For the winepress is full,
      The vats overflow—
      For their wickedness is great.”  Joel 3:12,13
      “’For look, on the city that is called by My name I am beginning to inflict harm, and you indeed, will you go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth,’ declares YHWH of hosts. And you yourself shall prophesy against them all these words, and you shall say to them:
      ‘YHWH will roar from on high,
          and from His holy dwelling place he will give His voice. (1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16,17,19; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21; Rev 11:1-3)
      He will roar mightily against His settlement,
          a jubilant shout like those who tread grapes,
      He will answer against all the inhabitants of the earth.” Jer 25:29,30
       
      “And another angel who had authority over the fire went out from the altar, and he called out with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Send out your sharp sickle and harvest the clusters of grapes from the vine of the earth, because its grapes are at their prime!” And the angel swung his sickle into the earth and harvested the vine of the earth, and threw the grapesinto the great winepress of the wrath of God.” Rev 14:18,19
      Those faithful servants of “Israel” who ride with Christ in this war, remain attached to the vine of truth, spiritually living on the sap of that vine.  (John 15:1,2,4-6,16;16:4,5; 1 Cor 6:17)  
      Yet, the Harlot’s weaponry used against the anointed and all in the organization is in the “wine” she offers, which results in spiritual drunkenness. (Jer 2:21; Deut 32:32,33; Matt 7:15,16; Rom 3:13)
      Her acts of deceit, are well tolerated by the inebriated, who repeatedly excuse and forget her lies, while drinking down another cup of her poisoned wine. (Jer 51:7; 1 Thess 5:6,7; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 14:8; 18:3,4)
       
      I want to share a comment that Pearl made a few years ago, that gives definition to “evil” grapes at their prime:
      The Bible portrays, that it is absorbed into their blood, so that their very soul (Lev 17:11) is the "venom of vipers" (Deut 32:32,33). 
      This is exactly why Christ treads the "winepress". It is to squeeze the falsehood from them. Those marked by “666” are false witnesses. The falsehood filling their souls (symbolized by their blood), will cause the lifeblood they have chosen, to kill them, because they will drown on their own blood. They drown on the lies within them, that Christ must crush at his return. This is such deep symbolism, but every detail of it, applies. Because their blood has become Satan's wine, they will lose their souls. God speaks of the Harlot who channels that "wine", when we read Isa.47:5-7 ...

      5 “O beautiful Babylon, sit now in darkness and silence.
          Never again will you be known as the queen of kingdoms.
      6 For I was angry with my chosen people
          and punished them by letting them fall into your hands.
      But you, Babylon, showed them no mercy.
          You oppressed even the elderly.
      7 You said, ‘I will reign forever as queen of the world!’
          You did not reflect on your actions
          or think about their consequences."

      We will see her fall.

      "30 A horrible and shocking thing
          has happened in this land—
      31 the prophets give false prophecies,
          and the priests rule with an iron hand.
      Worse yet, my people like it that way!
          But what will you do when the end comes?" (Jer.5:30-31)
       
      “And it will happen on that day;
      the mountains will drip new wine,
          and the hills will flow with milk,
          and all the channels of Judah will flow with water.
      A spring from the house of YHWH will come forth,
          and it will water the valley of Acacia Trees.
      19 Egypt will become a desolation,
          and Edom will become a desolate desert,
      because of the violence they did against the children of Judah,
          in whose land they have shed innocent blood.
      20 But Judah will be inhabited forever,
          and Jerusalem for all generations.
      21 I will cleanse their bloodguilt that I did not cleanse,
          for YHWH is dwelling in Zion.”  Joel 3:18-21
       
      Pearl Doxsey – Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Labor Pains
      A Hidden Famine, A Hidden Feast
      Spiritual Virginity vs. The Harlot’s Cup/Two Covenants
      666
      The Great Winepress

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