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Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?


JW Insider

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8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Me, too.

 

I wasn't suggesting that it was haughtiness or self-serving just to use the slogan. (Although that could be true, too.) I was thinking that it could be an indication of haughtiness in several ways:

It's fine to try to fill in the blanks, but why is it necessary to call your current solution and claim that it is the one that is proven to be correct by all the facts and evidence. In the case of the MILLIONS campaign, we made "sure" predictions for 1925 with "incontrovertible proofs." They were claimed to be  even more sure than 1914. Now, it's fine and appropriate to share this knowledge and explain why we believe it is Biblically supported. But it seems quite different (and haughty) to claim that our explanation is the explanation, and that others need to believe it, too. This seems especially odd if we had just failed at 100% of the verifiable predictions for 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1915, and 1918. If the "need to finally get one right" influenced the predictions for 1925 then that is also a form of haughtiness.

There is a humble way to explain prophecy and interpretation and a haughty way. There seems to be only one reason that someone says something will happen instead of being discreet and saying that if our understanding is correct, such-and-such may happen. (You might remember that this change from "may" to "will" was exactly what happened with the Millions campaign slogan.)

But there is another way that haughtiness can enter the picture. What if we, personally, kept telling people about our résumé  but always hid or shifted away from anything embarrassing. That's wrong, but probably normal, and there is no reason to shame ourselves. But what if we also made incorrect claims about our history, admitting some things as they happened but making other things sound better than they really were? No matter what the purpose, this is dishonest, but if we keep repeating the history over and over, and focusing on the exaggerated or untrue portions, then it is likely because we want to boost our own ego. (There are about a dozen times, for example, when we have published a "false" claim about what we had predicted for the year 1914, and at least another dozen times, when we published a misleading claim.)

 

 

Haughtiness? . . . I'm not sure.  Maybe, a bad attempt at saving face?  It could be that you're right.  A resume might involve some puffing up in details or credentials.  There's nothing wrong with having confidence or pride in your work record or abilities, except if your history and abilities become overstated or based on fallacy.

 

Oh, and I didn't really mean dates and times literally. (smile) 

 

You mentioned earlier the prophets surrounding King Ahab were guilty of false prophecy except Micaiah.  However, if I remember correctly, the prophet Micaiah also uttered a falsehood as God's representative.  I hate to say lied but it was most definitely false testimony, or what most would call a bold-face lie!

 

" . . . At once he replied: “Go up and you will be successful; Jehovah will give it into the king’s hand.” (1 Kings 22:15)

 

King Ahab knew he was lying and called him on it: 

"At that the king said to him: “How many times must I put you under oath not to speak to me anything but the truth in the name of Jehovah?” (1 Kings 22:15)

 

Only then did Micaiah cough up the truth adding a somewhat elusive dream about seeing Jehovah on his throne questioning which angel wanted to fool the prophets.

 

What if the King did not question Micaiah any further and just accepted what he wanted to hear as from the other prophets?  Was Micaiah afraid to tell him the truth?  If so, he had a right to be afraid.  As a consequence, he ended up being struck and in chains.

 

What about Adam when God asked him if he had eaten of the fruit.  There is no admission of guilt, and he dodged answering directly by giving God the glorious credit of giving him a woman to feed him.  (lol) 

 

I can certainly see where it is can be difficult at best to admit when we have made mistakes, said or done wrong, whether out of fear or consequence.  I am though beginning to see how ego, haughtiness and arrogance might be applied if insisting that others must agree with revelations of God's appointed faithful and discreet slave even though such preconceived notions can be erroneous and not a basis or necessary for salvation.   Therein lies the problem which can cause others to be labeled apostates if they don't agree.  How have we come to see so clearly the falseness of others, without recognizing the rafters obstructing our vision?  It does take much humility to admit being wrong. 

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3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

once again, an utter! false statement. Jehovah's Witness didn't make sure of anything to do with the1925 prediction. There's no "WE" in the subject matter when it comes to the role the Bible Students played with the WTS. It was just a publishing house for them, nothing more. So, under their own understanding, the Peoples Pulpit was not a command and control center.

Allen,

As I've said before, and I really mean it, I really enjoy discussing bits of history about the Bible Students and early history of Jehovah's Witnesses. And I appreciate it when you have added interesting and useful information. I am happy to learn from your posts, too. Several times when this has happened I have so stated, and even clicked on the green up arrow on some of your posts to indicate that I liked it.

But I must admit that I cannot understand why you insist on the points you have made in these posts. I find your points to be specious, especially when you consider that the Watchtower writers disagree with you. For example:

*** w09 3/15 p. 16 par. 4 “Be Vigilant” ***
Since 1925, Jehovah’s Witnesses have recognized that World War I and the events that followed amount to sure evidence that Christ’s presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914.

Don't worry about why I use this king of terminology, unless you can first tell me why it was either right or wrong for the Watchtower to use the same meaning in their own terminology. If you remember from the other post, this was only one of many such examples. By the way, it would be easy to show that the Watch Tower Society was much more than just a publishing house in their eyes. The WTS was also identified as God's sole channel of communication and the Society was even someimes described as the "faithful and discreet slave" ("faithful and wise servant").

 

In your prior post, you said:

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

I think I made it pretty clear you have zero understanding in the bible student movement in the other post.

To be honest, I might have missed what you thought was clear. To me, it looked like you you disagreed with what I said, but then you quoted some sources that indicated that what I said had been correct all along. Again, I would LOVE to be corrected on these matters, because I am a stickler for accuracy. When I put something on a forum like this, it is a great opportunity to attract other such "sticklers" who might be very happy to correct me when I say something that isn't accurate. This is very valuable to me. If the entire point was to show that we can't use the same terminology as the Watchtower, then I understand, but respectfully disagree.

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30 minutes ago, JaniceM said:

" . . . At once he replied: “Go up and you will be successful; Jehovah will give it into the king’s hand.” (1 Kings 22:15)

 

Exactly true! I used Jonah as an example of a prophet who got off-track for a while, and Micaiah was even a better example in some ways. He was off track here, and yet he was still a prophet of Jehovah, and was even given a revelation.

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54 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

 

Exactly true! I used Jonah as an example of a prophet who got off-track for a while, and Micaiah was even a better example in some ways. He was off track here, and yet he was still a prophet of Jehovah, and was even given a revelation.

 

After thought . . . What if Jonah thought he would be labeled a false prophet if the city was not destroyed and he had prophesied so long that it would?  Wanting to save face, he became haughty and arrogant failing to show humility or humbleness.

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22 hours ago, ThePraeceptor said:

Of course the answer will be that elder's opinion on the matter.

Why we keep discussing the symbolic meaning of the generation is beyond me. I get that it's fun to do it and even helpful, if done among brothers who try to encourage and fortify in the faith one another. Discussing such subjects in a place where a number of opposers are lurking and will not hesitate to use anything we write to slander WTS and the brotherhood is not something we should do.

I totaly agree with the statements made in the w13 1/1 p8

HAVE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES GIVEN INCORRECT DATES FOR THE END?

Jehovah’s Witnesses have had wrong expectations about when the end would come. Like Jesus’ first-century disciples, we have sometimes looked forward to the fulfillment of prophecy ahead of God’s timetable. (Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) We agree with the sentiment of longtime Witness A. H. Macmillan, who said: “I learned that we should admit our mistakes and continue searching God’s Word for more enlightenment.”

Why, then, do we continue to highlight the nearness of the end? Because we take seriously Jesus’ words: “Keep looking, keep awake.” The alternative, to be found “sleeping” by Jesus, would prevent us from gaining his favor. (Mark 13:33, 36) Why?

Consider this example: A lookout in a fire tower might see what he thinks is a wisp of smoke on the horizon and sound what proves to be a false alarm. Later, though, his alertness could save lives.

Likewise, we have had some wrong expectations about the end. But we are more concerned with obeying Jesus and saving lives than with avoiding criticism. Jesus’ command to “give a thorough witness” compels us to warn others about the end.—Acts 10:42.

We believe that even more important than focusing on when the end will come, we must be confident that it will come, and we must act accordingly. We take seriously the words of Habakkuk 2:3, which says: “Even if [the end] should delay [compared to what you thought], keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.”

An Elder should not really give his opinion, especially as regards whether someone will have God's approval or not. My point in asking that question is to see whether it is something we as JWs are supposed to believe. Because I sure find it hard to believe, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that "why do we keep discussing it"? (on JW broadcasting as "masterfully" explained by Br. Splane, then later on broadcasting I forget by whom, and now we will be discussing it in the Cong. Bible study). It is not really important, as you pointed out, and so I cannot understand why it is so important to the Slave, important enough to construct a chart, and discuss it twice, a few months apart.

I totally with agree WT 13 1/1 p3. as well. The thing is who is "we"? As in "we" have had some wrong expectations. You and I have only had wrong expectations because the Slave has had wrong expectations first. If the slave hadn't had those expectations and if they hadn't written about them in our publications then I doubt any of us would have had those expectations in the first place. Highlighting the nearness of the end is one thing, but placing time limits on it is another. I do not want to criticize the Slave for this, I am merely trying to understand the reason for them insisting on trying to figure out the generation, after not a very good track record of getting that kind of thing right.....I hate to think this way, but what IF this overlapping generation runs out too? Not that I am bothered by that personally, because I believe we should all "keep in expectation of it and be "ready" regardless of any time limits and numbers", but how will this make the Slave look? So I am thinking they must be very confident that they are correct with this overlapping Generation theory......

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19 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

 

Let's get real here! I'm not going to worry about the colour of my shoelaces when I am out in the pouring rain!

Thanks for the prophecy .pdf by the way. Most interesting. :) 

I agree with everything that you and the Praeceptor have said.

That is my point: why is the Slave "worrying" about it?

And you are welcome :)

 

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59 minutes ago, Anna said:

My point in asking that question is to see whether it is something we as JWs are supposed to believe

Anna, an elder cannot tell you what you are supposed to believe. No man can or should. We grow our christian maturity by studying and trying to apply the scriptures in our life immitating Jesus' example. This is what makes Jehovah happy and this is what is gaining us His approval not the exact meaning of a word in a prophecy. I'm more than sure that you know all this better than me. If an understanding comes that we don't agree with or can't fully comprehend what should we do? Believe it blindly? Discard it? Oppose it? None of this! Expect Jehovah and He will clear out any doubts or incomprehensions. What did the first congregation do on the matter of circumcision or preaching to the gentiles? These things were not well received by everyone for years. ;-)

59 minutes ago, Anna said:

how will this make the Slave look?

Let them worry about that. Luke 12:42-48 is very clear. If the "steward" acts in ways not ascribed to him by his appointment, WILL answer for them to the Lord.

 

PS: Wow! I realy liked that prophecy.pdf! Great find and thanks for sharing!

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9 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That’s why it’s a false statement when you state: “JWinsider: The WTS was also identified as God's sole channel of communication and the Society was even sometimes described as the "faithful and discreet slave" ("faithful and wise servant").”

The association believed Pastor Russell to be the Wise Servant (The Channel), not the publishing house or the editing committee.

Allen,

I don't know if you can accept the Watchtower's answer:

*** Watchtower, March 1, 1923 p.68 *** "
"When asked who the faithful and wise servant was, Russell would reply, 'Some say I am while others say the Society is'; both are true, since Russell was in fact the Society.

*** Watchtower, April 1, 1919 [Reprints, p. 6414] ***
"…Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?"

*** Watchtower, September 15, 1910, p. 298 ***
" . . . people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself . . . if he then lays them [Scripture Studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures,"

 

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16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 

Exactly true! I used Jonah as an example of a prophet who got off-track for a while, and Micaiah was even a better example in some ways. He was off track here, and yet he was still a prophet of Jehovah, and was even given a revelation.

What you would need to find in the Bible as an appropriate comparison for the WTS is a prophet who was wrong on 100% of his prophecies, not just occasionally, and was still a prophet of Jehovah.

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6 hours ago, ThePraeceptor said:

Anna, an elder cannot tell you what you are supposed to believe. No man can or should.

Anna is correct on this.

JWs are to believe and do whatever the men on the governing body of the WTS tell them to believe and do even if it seems strange and even if they don't agree with it........:
 

Watchtower, November 15, 2013, pg.20 Simplified Edition: At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives. 

Study Edition: At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.


......and even if it's WRONG! 
 

[wt 4/1/07 p.28, par.8-9] 8 We obey the elders not only because we are directed to do so in God’s Word but also because we are persuaded that they have Kingdom interests and our best interests at heart. We will certainly be happy if we willingly accept their leadership.

9 What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders’ direction is the best way of doing things? That is where submission comes into play. It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly submissive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided.

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2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Often when asked by others, who is that faithful and wise servant? -Brother Russell would reply: "Some say I am; while others say the Society is." Both statements were true; for Brother Russell was in fact the Society in a most absolute sense, in this, that he directed the policy and course of the Society without regard to any other person on earth.

Allen, You just did it again! You made a statement that I was wrong, and then provided evidence that I was right. The entire quote is much better at proving my point than the shorter version of the quote that I gave, but where I didn't include ellipses where words were left out.

I suppose you believe that without the words "by others" that he was merely asking himself and responding to himself?

And, of course, my original point was

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the Society was even sometimes described as the "faithful and discreet slave" ("faithful and wise servant").”

You highlighted the word "often" that I also left off the front of that quote. So instead of my point that Society was "sometimes" described as the "faithful and discreet slave" I could have said that it was "often" described that way. Thanks for adding evidence that the point was even more true than I initially claimed.

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41 minutes ago, HollyW said:

What you would need to find in the Bible as an appropriate comparison for the WTS is a prophet who was wrong on 100% of his prophecies, not just occasionally, and was still a prophet of Jehovah.

The WTS has only been wrong on 100% of their time-related prophecies, but as Eoin has pointed out, a prophet is much more than just someone who makes time-based predictions. A prophet is also a spokesperson for revealing the will of God, past, present or future. When the WTS was claiming that the "anointed" were a prophet, and that "Jehovah's witnesses" as an organization was a prophet, they understood that carrying a warning message or proclaiming the divine will was also the task of a prophet. The WTS publications have also declared Rutherford to be a prophet personally, but not because of predictions but because he was giving a general warning message to world leaders. In fact, he was once called a prophet in the same way that some other politician who wasn't related to the WTS could also be called a prophet. So the wider sense of the word was clearly understood. Early publications of the WTS also said it was appropriate to speak of the anointed members of the 144,000 (and/or remnant) as making up the composite "prophet greater than Moses." And we are all aware, I think, of the many times that specific prophets pictured, through a system of types and antitypes, the work of Russell (Elijah) and later the work of Rutherford (Elisha) which was later transferred to the time periods that more closely matched Rutherford (Elijah) and then Knorr (Elisha). Russell was, for many years, "the man with the writer's inkhorn" (Ezekiel).

I believe that the time-related predictions might have all failed (so far) although one might give some credit to Brother Knorr for predicting that the League of Nations would rise again during or after the WWII period. But as far as revealing the divine will of God, I believe that many other Biblical truths have been promoted by the WTS (BS/JW), many of which should have the effect of "waking up" Christendom and other religions that have been lulled into inactivity and apathy toward the key message of Christianity. I think that Jehovah has no reason, therefore, to reject the "general" prophetic work. 

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