Christians look forward to the rapture

[HollyW]

The scriptures Christians base their belief in the rapture on are the following:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

1 Corinthians 15:20-23, “But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming.”

1 Cor. 15:51-52, “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.”

Does the WTS still say this event is an ongoing one since 1918 involving just a small segment of Jehovah's Witnesses as "the dead in Christ" ?

[JaniceM]

 

I personally would not be an expert in the subject or the exact year in time, but Jehovah Witnesses believe that after Jesus was enthroned in the kingdom, the beginning of those that would rule with Christ were resurrected.  Those resurrected throughout the centuries would have begun with the apostles and many of the early disciples.  If any remain on earth at the time of Christ's arrival, my understanding is that they would have to die or be baptized into the death of Christ and then instantly resurrected to join Christ and the angels in the war of Armageddon.

[HollyW]

On 9/26/2016 at 3:34 PM, JaniceM said:

 

I personally would not be an expert in the subject or the exact year in time, but Jehovah Witnesses believe that after Jesus was enthroned in the kingdom, the beginning of those that would rule with Christ were resurrected.  Those resurrected throughout the centuries would have begun with the apostles and many of the early disciples.  If any remain on earth at the time of Christ's arrival, my understanding is that they would have to die or be baptized into the death of Christ and then instantly resurrected to join Christ and the angels in the war of Armageddon.

Thanks, Janice.

I'll see if I can put some dates the WTS applies to the first passage I quoted:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. The WTS says this event took place some time in 1918.  Jehovah created spirit bodies and in them reactivated the life patterns of the apostles, the early Christians, and those Christians who died faithful in the years between the first century A.D. and 1918

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.” The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.  In heaven Jehovah then creates a spirit body to house what he remembers about their character and personality.

 Do you know if this is still their teaching or if they've changed the timing of this resurrection again?

Also, does it seem like Paul is writing about two separate events, one that takes place immediately and the next that takes place over many decades?

[JaniceM]

 

Hi Holly,

I think probably the last information regarding 1919 is the same, although I'm not good at keeping up with what happened when.  Insider, might be a better person to research that particular aspect if he has time.  Right off hand, I did locate perhaps that latest on that topic below: 

 

*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.

 

 

Do you have the exact quote for what you mentioned:

"The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.  In heaven Jehovah then creates a spirit body to house what he remembers about their character and personality. ."

 

It would be sufficient for me to say the scriptures state persons resurrected to the heavens will be given a spiritual and/or incorruptible body.  I assume they they would more than likely have the same new personality they acquired once they dedicated themselves to following in Christ footsteps. 

[HollyW]

6 hours ago, JaniceM said:

 

Hi Holly,

I think probably the last information regarding 1919 is the same, although I'm not good at keeping up with what happened when.  Insider, might be a better person to research that particular aspect if he has time.  Right off hand, I did locate perhaps that latest on that topic below: 

 

*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.

Do you have the exact quote for what you mentioned:

"The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.  In heaven Jehovah then creates a spirit body to house what he remembers about their character and personality. ."

It would be sufficient for me to say the scriptures state persons resurrected to the heavens will be given a spiritual and/or incorruptible body.  I assume they they would more than likely have the same new personality they acquired once they dedicated themselves to following in Christ footsteps. 

Hi Janice, and thank you.  Yes, the quote from the 2007 WT is what brings up the question about the timing of the first resurrection because it seems to cast some doubt on the WTS's earlier teachings about 1918 being the date the resurrection began.  The importance of this teaching should cause all JWs to research this because their religious leaders say that teaching wrongly about it is what the Bible brands as apostasy. (see 4/1/1986 wt p.31)

For the exact quotes you've asked for, let's start with the WTS definition of resurrection:

[rs p.333] Resurrection involves a reactivating of the life pattern of the individual, which life pattern God has retained in his memory. According to God’s will for the individual, the person is restored in either a human or a spirit body and yet retains his personal identity, having the same personality and memories as when he died.

Notice that it is not a spiritual body but a spirit body that the anointed JWs are to have their life patterns reactivated in.  A spiritual body is described in 1 Corinthians 15 as a physical body that comes back to life and is clothed with immortality and incorruption.

The following quote shows that as each anointed JW dies, he/she is 'resurrected' as a spirit and goes to heaven (some publications say this resurrection takes place in heaven):

[w93 1/15 p. 6] Upon dying in faithfulness during Christ’s presence, each one of the remnant of spiritual Israel instantaneously receives his heavenly reward. “In the twinkling of an eye,” he is resurrected as a spirit creature and “caught away” to meet Jesus and to serve as a coruler in the Kingdom of the heavens.

I think the Revelation Climax book is still the current WTS commentary on Revelation and it has this on pages 103-104:

[re p.103-104 par.14] Those of Jesus’ anointed brothers who survive to Jesus’ presence, that is, who are still alive on earth during his presence, are preceded into heaven by those who have already died. Such ones, dead in union with Christ, rise first. Jesus descends, that is, turns his attention to them, and resurrects them to spirit life, giving them “a white robe.” Afterward, those who are still alive as humans finish their earthly course, many of them dying violently at the hands of opposers. They do not, however, sleep in death as their predecessors did. Rather, when they die, they are instantly changed—“in the twinkling of an eye”—caught away to the heavens to be with Jesus and fellow members of the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:50-52

Hope this helps.

[JaniceM]

 

Thank you Holly for your responses,

I have no problem with the position of the society in regards to those anointed being resurrected as spirits.  If I said spiritual as opposed to spirit, it was simply in contrast to a physical corruptible body.  My impression from the scriptures is those resurrected to heaven would become as angels or spirits.

 

(1 Peter 3:18) Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.

 

(1 Corinthians 15:45-47) 45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. 47 . . .

 

My question was not really in regards to spiritual vs spirit but the statement you made in regards to the Society below:

 

15 hours ago, HollyW said:

The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.

 

I underlined the direct portion of your statement.  If you could please provide a direct quote from a publication about this as well as the statement you made below:

 

5 hours ago, HollyW said:

The importance of this teaching should cause all JWs to research this because their religious leaders say that teaching wrongly about it is what the Bible brands as apostasy. (see 4/1/1986 wt p.31)

 

I checked the reference you quoted and failed to see exactly what you mentioned as branding ones apostates that wrongly teach about this or the year 1919(?), etc.  However, I will check it again.

 

*** w86 4/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers - ▪ Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

 

 

It's easier for me to comment on a direct quote from our publication and I can tell you if I agree or disagree with it.  However, if the quotes or from a website, they may not be listing the right publications.

 

Finally, before we go around in circles of predicted years in time, I've had to pick my battles.  That would include relatives, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, Catholics, Protestants or ones in this forum.  For example, the Bible says:

 

(Matthew 7:21-23) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

 

This verse would perhaps include the majority of Christian denominations prophesying in the name of the Lord.  I have researched and found many attempts to correctly predict the coming of Christ which may or may not be true, some every Sunday by ministers/preachers/priests, . . . etc.  Right now a year in time is not among my greatest concerns, but knowing that year will eventually come.

[JaniceM]

 

Correction to earlier post:

 

7 minutes ago, JaniceM said:

I checked the reference you quoted and failed to see exactly what you mentioned as branding ones apostates that wrongly teach about this or the year 1919(?), etc.  However, I will check it again.

 

*** w86 4/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers - ▪ Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

 

[HollyW]

6 hours ago, HollyW said:

Hi Janice, and thank you.  Yes, the quote from the 2007 WT is what brings up the question about the timing of the first resurrection because it seems to cast some doubt on the WTS's earlier teachings about 1918 being the date the resurrection began.  The importance of this teaching should cause all JWs to research this because their religious leaders say that teaching wrongly about it is what the Bible brands as apostasy. (see 4/1/1986 wt p.31)

 

44 minutes ago, JaniceM said:

I checked the reference you quoted and failed to see exactly what you mentioned as branding ones apostates that wrongly teach about this or the year 1919(?), etc.  However, I will check it again.

 

*** w86 4/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers - ▪ Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

Janice, let me preface this by saying all my quotes are from the WTS cd-library disc.

You say you didn't understand the connection between what the QFR article in the 4/1/1986 wt and that of preaching the wrong timing of the first resurrection as being apostasy.  I'll quote it from the article [bolding is mine]:

Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

What do such beliefs include?

That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position?

Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: “Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.)

There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.

[HollyW]

47 minutes ago, JaniceM said:

My question was not really in regards to spiritual vs spirit but the statement you made in regards to the Society below:

 

16 hours ago, HollyW said:

The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.

 

I underlined the direct portion of your statement.  If you could please provide a direct quote from a publication about this

I'm not sure why the two I've already provided (from the 1993 wt and the Revelation Climax book) don't answer your question about what I said.  The WTS says the first resurrection began in 1918 with the resurrection of the dead in Christ from the first century to the start of the resurrection in 1918.  But that was not all of the 144,000, they say.  There were still anointed JWs who had not died yet, but as each one dies during the time from 1918 to the present, he or she is immediately resurrected to heaven.

Are you thinking that some of these spirit-anointed JWs would not be ones who are in good standing with the WTS? 

 

[Evacuated]

Are there any Christians that do not look forward to the rapture?

[HollyW]

1 hour ago, JaniceM said:

My question was not really in regards to spiritual vs spirit but the statement you made in regards to the Society below:

 

16 hours ago, HollyW said:

The WTS says this has been taking place ever since as each spirit-anointed JW dies faithful to the teachings of the WTS.

 

I underlined the direct portion of your statement.  If you could please provide a direct quote from a publication about this

I'm not sure why the two I've already provided (from the 1993 wt and the Revelation Climax book) don't answer your question about what I said.  The WTS says the first resurrection began in 1918 with the resurrection of the dead in Christ from the first century to the start of the resurrection in 1918.  But that was not all of the 144,000, they say.  There were still anointed JWs who had not died yet, but as each one dies during the time from 1918 to the present, he or she is immediately resurrected to heaven.

Are you thinking that some of these spirit-anointed JWs would not be ones who are in good standing with the WTS? 

 

[HollyW]

2 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Are there any Christians that do not look forward to the rapture?

I think Christians with a preterist view may believe it's already happened, just not over a whole bunch of years the way the WTS teaches.