Jump to content
The World News Media

Why won't they announce the reason for disfellowshipping or disassociation?


Recommended Posts

  • Member
4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I can tell you right there the majority is Universal Unitarianism and they are not the type to agree with the rest of the tribe (other Unitarians).

 

Okay. What little I know of Unitarians is confined to UU, and I know little about them.

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

But yeah, not all of us Unitarians are the same.

Okay again. I am a little sorry that I posted my "next" book title. It is no more than the sort of good-natured ribbing that I would do to my closest friends, and I hope it is not percieved as any sort  "one-uppence." I also hope it doesn't overshadow the valuable perspective you're offered for the subject at hand, if it is really the subject at hand, since as you said it did hijack another thread.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 8k
  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης, I do not know any specifics of your particular situation or the situation in your congregation. No matter what the case, Jehovah knows your heart, and no humans or organizat

I looked at several of your posts and some of them appear to take outdated issues, or overblown issues, and treat them as if they are currently having a direct effect on people. I think Melinda Mills

It is not possible to support these statements with fact. Yes to both. However, with regard to following scripture, in the spirit of Apollos. Acts 18:24-28. Where is the scriptural proof

Posted Images

  • Member

Having said that, what is the internet term for this:

22 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I have a few alternate personas and I bring them in every now and then, mostly for comic relief, that I'm not sure anyone appreciates other than me.

 

Or this?

On 3/23/2018 at 10:05 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

I certainly mess with people's minds enough when I determine they are up to no good.

 

Or even this:

22 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If I actually thought I was patiently reasoning wiht "apostates" - [which by no stretch of the imagination do I include SM]  as though thinking that the elders struck out but I know how to convince them - well - no way. That would be hugely presumptuous and not too obedient. But if I can make my own world, I can get around it. And I get to hone my writing abiltiy, which these days, is my sole gig.

 

:)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 3/24/2018 at 7:45 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

I have a few alternate personas and I bring them in every now and then, mostly for comic relief, that I'm not sure anyone appreciates other than me.

 

I take it back. I do know a certain @Nana Fofana who probably appreciates it and veers down that same nebulous path herself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
8 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Every Christian denomination honestly believes there in the right path. It “all” boils down to interpretation.

 

The ONLY true path is exact understanding of scripture. There you will find the true context and intent of Gods words, especially the ones enabled by Christ. Theology has come a long way from the early personal acclaim of fear and no hope for the wicked.

 

Unfortunately, you have many here that REFUSE to understand the OPERATIONAL structure that Christ laid out for his servants to follow. THAT INCLUDES LEADERS AMONG THE FOE!

 

However, the ONLY father that should be chosen, close is, our heavenly father. That includes obedience to those he has entrusted to lead in an earthly capacity. The anointed are an extension of the apostles.

 

And yet, some make outlandish comparisons to gather public Input for research to sell their books. On other forums, I call them enablers and hypocrites. A good bible researcher works to honor and glory, God, NOT themselves. That’s why I haven't found a GOOD historical researcher of the Watchtower that doesn’t end up putting their own delusional spin on their works. Hopefully, someday, a true historical account about the Watchtower will emerge.

 

Agreed, you'd be surprised on how some Unitarians are not a fan of other Unitarians who stick to scripture, as well as an onslaught from Trinity believers, KJV-onlyist, mainstream and dishonest Christians, New Agers, people who believe they follow Christ but truly do not, etc. The other day I had to deal with a guy who claims to be Christian who stated that Jesus Christ is not the promised seed and or prophet, and the funny thing is he can't nor has he ever used scripture, even when I gave him proof from the bible, this guy was ready to go nuts and trying to claim I was wrong - but yeah, there are Christians who claim to be, but will incite infighting, falsehood and use conspiracy and or believe in conspiracy and all that jazz.

That being said, those who are in the right by understanding and applying scripture are True Christians, as well as following Jesus' examples no matter what, in addition to having to quell those who pushing out a false doctrine. But as of late, mainstream Christians are on a massive decline, especially in the UK and the EU, ironically, they do know what they are doing wrong - the answer is quite evident, and more and more people are now knowing how false fake or blind Christians are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

@AllenSmith Every Christian denomination honestly believes there in the right path. It “all” boils down to interpretation.

I think that is complete rubbish. How in WW2 could Catholics and others of other so called christian faiths believe it was right to go to war against each other and to kill each other ? How could they believe it is right to get deeply involved with politics, when Jesus cleary said 'My kingdom is no part of this world ? How can they pretend that people, or people's souls go to heaven or hell when God's word clearly states that 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ? How can they teach a trinity when Jesus said 'My father is greater than I am' 

No, all the false christian faiths know they are false, but it's just big business, power and control.....

Quote :  That includes obedience to those he has entrusted to lead in an earthly capacity. The anointed are an extension of the apostles.

Are now here we have a different story...... Firstly we need to be sure of whom he has 'entrusted to lead in an earthly capacity'.

Secondly, we need to know who the anointed are.

Thirdly, we need to know who has given authority to the Governing Body to say that only they, 8 men, out of hundreds anointed, are the special chosen ones to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave'.  

It's no good being one sided about it all. Yes we all know there has to be an Earthly organisation, but for you to just say that 'The anointed are an extension of the apostles', does not prove who the anointed are. So it's back to square one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Every Christian denomination honestly believes there in the right path. It “all” boils down to interpretation.

I think that is complete rubbish. How in WW2 could Catholics and others of other so called christian faiths believe it was right to go to war against each other and to kill each other ? How could they believe it is right to get deeply involved with politics, when Jesus cleary said 'My kingdom is no part of this world ? How can they pretend that people, or people's souls go to heaven or hell when God's word clearly states that 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ? How can they teach a trinity when Jesus said 'My father is greater than I am' 

It isn't rubbish. If you've been around the block a few times as some may have, in my case the numerous debates I have seen as well as in person ones will say the same thing, hence better to be close to what is true than far from it.

As for the war, I agree with you, for in the past (now even) Catholics, Christians and Muslims have been going at it back in ancient times, mainly Christians and Muslims, with the Christians being front and center alongside the Catholics. Some have no other choice but to fight, others were pretty much persuaded to fight as they were being threaten.

As for today, there is a large amount of Christians who are for politics and war while another group is against it and will not partake, some Christians however, feel that it is their duty to defend for it is the only choice - then comes the question: would a Christian take a life of another Christian, who is also pushed to or persuaded to defend his or her country from outside forces, who also have Christians on their side?

An example would be the Seventh Day Adventist, for they are more likely the type of Christians, like some of the mainstream ones, to go at it with others.

All in all, we are not to be the type of people to take part in these things, I have already read in depth about what happen to the Christians in Syria and Christians who were for that madness, as with other things, should be very ashamed of themselves.

This is an example of what Christian Nationalist who are in support of also taking lives via cold blooded murder thinking it is worth it and for the greater good.

 

On the other side of the spectrum, there are Christians who are against such things and like always, they are attacked, ridiculed and bashed for it. We are not suppose to take arms, go overseas to kill others, especially if it is innocence getting in the way of gunfire.In addition, because of the action of allies, some Christians, mainly in the Middle East, were forced, having no other choice, to break their faith in order to defend themselves because of the damage their so called allies have caused in the country.

All in all, it is a tough world for a real Christian, you will be branded as a man or a woman not for his or her country for not going to war or helping out in it, you will be called a fanatic for believing in God, you will be called a false prophet and a cultist for not believing in the Trinity, if you are a race other than white you will be told that the bible is not for you because you are not the same color and or race as them, you will be prey to politics and government, all things of that nature.

Another thing is Christians who are for war and politics do not know the damage they have caused and or they are unaware of what following such things contribute to, Libya, Syria, Jerusalem, they are fools to think what was done there was a just thing to do.

In the end, Christians who live by scripture will always be targeted, and it will get progressively worse as the days go by for there is something big in the works that should not be ignored and should make one very vigilant of what is taking place and what is to take place.

It is times like this we need to be very careful and watchful of things.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

No, all the false christian faiths know they are false, but it's just big business, power and control.....

Quote :  That includes obedience to those he has entrusted to lead in an earthly capacity. The anointed are an extension of the apostles.

Are now here we have a different story...... Firstly we need to be sure of whom he has 'entrusted to lead in an earthly capacity'.

Secondly, we need to know who the anointed are.

Thirdly, we need to know who has given authority to the Governing Body to say that only they, 8 men, out of hundreds anointed, are the special chosen ones to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave'.  

It's no good being one sided about it all. Yes we all know there has to be an Earthly organisation, but for you to just say that 'The anointed are an extension of the apostles', does not prove who the anointed are. So it's back to square one. 

True, for the blind tends to lead the blind and have monetary gain that does not contribute to anything regarding God, the Great Commission, etc. As for obedience, those entrusted to lead tend to be Shepherd, and only those who are true to their role are to guide people by means of scripture - and who is chosen and who these people are is between God and them, for God is capable of anointing and putting those in place to be as guides while others assume God has place them to lead when they in turn teach a false doctrine.

Perhaps because they are among the 8 out of the hundreds who are still out there for such persons of such a position is between them and God, so the who part is already obvious - for the chosen one and or anointed can be seen by their faith and works, despite being imperfect human beings.

We know this by reading, Romans 8:13-17, John. 1:9-13, James. 1:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:17, etc. verses that cross-reference to the ones mention

For those who are chosen is only known by their works and faith and by Holy Spirit upon them, of how they are chosen, it is between them and God the Father.

That being said, what should raise question is how many are alive still, and how many have deceased and been rewarded position of priesthood - but the majority of concern for many Christians who are not blind, is how many are alive for even in the end time tribulations only few of the chosen ones are to remain, and 144,000 isn't a big number, so anything goes between now and however among of days, months, years, etc left.

As I was told at a younger age, end times and tribulation will happen suddenly, I use to have dreams of what it would be like, what would take place, how the people would react, how violent people can get when things start to break and fall apart as if the world shut down, for at the time I thought of it taking place when I was still a boy, and then Harmageddon where everything concludes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, tromboneck said:

I meant no harm

Not to worry. No offense taken.

5 hours ago, tromboneck said:

I realize you are a writer hence your large amountof time spent on this forum.

About half of the upcoming book on Russian persecution was originally written on this forum. Since few reasons for opposition were presented at any court hearings, and the m.o. was mostly to provide quick legal cover for decisions already made, I have given the reasons, and their defence, in the second portion of the book. These include such things as cult accusations, brainwashing, shunning, and the white-hot topic (which did not figure in to Russian action) of pedophilia accusations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

@AllenSmith So why didn't the Governing Body obey the law of the land, and hand over the documents asked for in the USA ?

It seems that the Org handed over similar documents in Australia and in the UK. So it seems there is a division in the Org's thinking and actions here. 

Surely handing over the documents would not have gone against Jehovah God's laws and principles. 

The next point being, and i don't know why we are dragging all this up again as we will not agree on it, but, are you saying that all those victims Earthwide are lying when they say they were told by the elders not to report it to the Police ? And when they say they were made to face the abusers ? And when they say they were disfellowshipped and shunned / abandoned if they continued to complain when nothing was done about it ?  

And your misuse of the two Matthew scriptures is sickening. People hating the Org because it is pure and clean would be wonderful wouldn't it ? BUT, people are now hating the Org for it's disgusting deeds. There is such a big difference, and the terrible misuse of scripture makes it worse. 

Quote ;  'Before 2008, The Courts generally cited with the Watchtower in many things, including child abuse'.... Is that a clever way of saying they did deals behind closed doors so that people outside didn't know how bad the situation was. I'd call that a cover up. 

And in your last paragraph you are playing that same old record. Please get it into your head, the JW Org is supposed to be NO PART OF THIS WORLD. It does not matter what any one else is doing. And those courts are there because Jehovah God wants them to be there at this time. AND Jehovah wants his people to obey those courts unless they go against God's laws and principles. 

But of course,  I mustn't forget, the Governing Body and the Elders are allowed to tell lies, they call it spiritual warfare.  But if a member of the congregation tells lies that is called Sin.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/25/jehovahs-witnesses-accused-of-silencing-victims-of-child-abuse-uk

So is all this lies ? Yes we know the media likes hype and yes it pays their wages, but that is not the point. Is all this lies ? That what matters. 

Because if even half of this is true, then i can understand why people would not trust the Org. It would give people the right to hate in fact. Hating something wicked is not a bad thing and pedophilia is wicked. When people are emotionally upset they tend to generalise and will include all Witnesses in their hate.  

More to the point, and I've said this many times before, I'm concerned for the Brothers and Sisters on the ministry, as it may be dangerous out there.  They may expect persecution for preaching righteous things about God, but if they don't know about this 'problem' and I can assure you many of them do not know, then they will not be ready to face the situation. I honestly think all congregations should include something in it's Thursday evening meeting, just one talk to prepare people for the coming trouble. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

@AllenSmith So you are saying that the court was fining the Org $4,000 per day for not giving something they did not have. 

So you then are saying the court were deliberately fining them $4,000 for nothing, just to get their money. 

Um, yet I thought it was common knowledge that the GB had been compiling Child Abuse accusation documents since 1997. True or false ?  

As for it affecting other religions, that's not important. Obeying Jehovah is what is important. Confessional privilege = dishonesty. To withhold information is going against Jehovah, but then back to what I've already said. The GB say it's ok for them to tell lies or withhold info' as they call it 'spiritual warfare'. 

You seem to be doing what the GB are doing, hiding behind laws which are not in line with Jehovah's instructions through Jesus Christ.

So to be a good JW it seems you need to be a liar and be deceitful. But you proved that with your misuse of the Matthew scriptures.

Do you see what is happening to what is supposed to be the TRUTH ? God is being so insulted here. The scriptures are being misused regularly. OH dear, Jesus' words, I want mercy not sacrifice. But the Org shows no mercy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,669
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Miracle Pete
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.