Is it the original anointed person or their clone who will be in heaven?

[Jack Ryan]

The WT teaches that there's no part of a human being that survives the death of the body. If the anointed do not have an immortal soul/ some immaterial part of them that survives death, then whoever will be in heaven won't be the original anointed person but their CLONE since once a person dies, according to WT theology, they cease to exist; so God will have to create a spirit body FROM NOTHING for that person and that created body by definition will therefore NOT be the original person but their CLONE.

So it will be a person's CLONE that will get to live forever in heaven and rule with Christ, and NOT the original person.............one can now see why other religions teach the doctrine of the immortality of the soul.

- deegee

[Evacuated]

Hello Dolly(s).................

Novel idea. S'pose you think this applies to Jesus as well??

1 hour ago, Jay Witness said:

God will have to create a spirit body FROM NOTHING

Doesn't this statement contradict the definition of the word CLONE?

There's nothing new about folks having difficulty with the Bilble's teaching on the resurrection.  And nothing new about certain of those folks holding that teaching up to ridicule as a result. 

Jesus summed up their problem better than anyone could do today when he said:

“You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God."  Matt.22:29
 

[Shiwiii]

On 10/15/2016 at 11:58 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Hello Dolly(s).................

Novel idea. S'pose you think this applies to Jesus as well??

 

You should be asking your elders, or GB about this, it is their teaching.

If nothing about a human survives death, then who exactly is in heaven? Are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob there? Or is it just a copy of who they were? Maybe the true definition of clone doesn't work, but copy I would think matches what the WT teaches. 

[Witness]

On 10/15/2016 at 10:04 PM, Jay Witness said:

The WT teaches that there's no part of a human being that survives the death of the body. If the anointed do not have an immortal soul/ some immaterial part of them that survives death, then whoever will be in heaven won't be the original anointed person but their CLONE since once a person dies, according to WT theology, they cease to exist; so God will have to create a spirit body FROM NOTHING for that person and that created body by definition will therefore NOT be the original person but their CLONE.

We know that when Jesus appeared to the disciples on the road and after his resurrection, they didn’t recognize him at first, until he opened their eyes showing them who he was.  We can see by his appearance in flesh after receiving a spirit form that this is the essence of the “new creation” of both spirit and flesh.  I believe with our open eyes we will recognize who these ones of the Bride are also, at Christ’s return. 

And He said to them, “What kind of conversation is this that you have with one another as you walk and are sad?” Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, “Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?”  And He said to them, “What things?”

Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He indicated that He would have gone farther.  But they constrained Him, saying, “Abide with us, for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.” And He went in to stay with them.  Luke 24:17-19

 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them.  Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight. Luke 24:28-31

In human appearance did he look any different than before his death?  It sounds like that is the case, as he is a “new creation”.  If these disciples were only viewing the man in human terms, human wisdom, it took Christ to open their spiritual eyes of discernment to recognize Jesus in the spirit, and then assigning that understanding to the flesh. 

Nathanael was cognizant of who Christ was by looking beyond the human flesh – only possible with the blessing of Holy Spirit given through his faith in the coming Messiah. 

Paul said something interesting in 1 Cor 3:1-3: 

“But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.  I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?” 

He also said spiritual wisdom,

“is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.  But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory.  None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
    nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”  1 Cor 2:6-9

The faithful chosen priests of Christ are also a “new creation” of the mother New Covenant, that will manifest this characteristic of the ascended Christ in the same way.  1 Pet 1:23; Gal 4:26

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.  2 Cor 5:17

These messenger priests (Mal 2:7) (angels are messengers) will “ascend” and descend” upon the Christ in God’s Kingdom. John 1:49-51; John 3:5; 1 Cor 15:44; Heb 8:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Ezek 41:18,19 

As Jesus has the capability of both human form and spirit, so too, will these.  Those blessed among mankind to be in the Kingdom will, with the spiritual eye of wisdom, discern who the “144,000” are. 

No, they are not stuck in “heaven” and neither is Jesus as scriptures have already proven.  This is the whole reason for a “new creation”, and Zion “coming down from heaven”.  Rev 21:1-4;22-27  Jesus inherited the earth first as Abraham’s promised seed, sharing this inheritance with the “firstfruits”, then with all of subsequent faithful seed of Abraham. Rev 2:26; Luke 22:29; Rom 15:8; Gal 3:28,29;  Heb 6:12; Ps 37:29; Gen 22:17,18; 28:13,14

 And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”  John 1:51

So, the faithful priests are not clones, but a new creation and one that will enable us to know who each of them are, in both human flesh and spirit.  If the demons now can appear as a lost loved one, how much more so can God’s spirit fully assure our recognizing just who Christ’s Bride members are, when they are revealed.

Jesus said,  

“But who do you say that I am?”  Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.” Matt 16:16,17

So, whatever fleshly form Jesus took when appearing to the disciples on the road, it didn’t matter; accordingly, in whatever form the “new creation” of faithful, serving priests appear in both heaven and on earth, all of God’s children will know who they are, since their spiritual eyes will be opened. 

Jacob's Ladder

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, tromboneck said:

clone: A copy or imitation of something already existing

(1 Corinthians 15:33-50) . . .Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits. 34 Come to your senses in a righteous way and do not practice sin, for some have no knowledge of God. I am speaking to move you to shame. 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, there is another flesh of cattle, another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50 But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
 

I do not know who you are and I do not want to know. But you obviously have not read the Bible with any thoughtful consideration. Or else, you just think you are cute. In which case your question is improper.

If you continue in 1 Corinthinas 15, it goes on to say:

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is not speaking of being given a new body, but rather adding to the existing one. The putting on of incorruption and immorality is almost like that of a coat or covering.