WT Feb 17

[Shiwiii]

¹² The Governing Body is neither inspired nor perfect. It can make mistakes when explaining the Bible or directing the organization. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-simplified-february-2017/who-is-leading-gods-people-today/

 

If this is the case then why must a JW adhere to the doctrines they say? Why is it that a JW cannot believe differently from what the gb says without the fear of being disfellowshipped or shunned? 

We know they either were wrong or are wrong on the topic/doctrine of blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it separate blood into fractions, but yet the gb says that this part is ok and this part is not. At one time blood transfusions were fine, but now it is only a part of blood that is fine.......hmmmm Either they were wrong then or wrong now, which is it? Or are they wrong in both time frames?  They just published that they could have been mistaken when directing all JW's, but if you knew in your heart they were wrong and went against what they teach/taught you would be cast out. Is that the loving way Jesus demonstrated for us to treat each other?

Why is it that you must obey them? 

[Shiwiii]

This clearly tells us that God is not directing this organization, but instead the gb is. 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

 

This clearly tells us that God is not directing this organization, but instead the gb is. 

 

Can you show Scripturally that whenever direction is provided for God's people it always comes directly from God?

[Shiwiii]

15 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Can you show Scripturally that whenever direction is provided for God's people it always comes directly from God?

How can you adhere to men who admit they err in the direction they take the org, and still in the same breath say they are God's channel here on earth? 

 

God uses crooked sticks to draw a straight path. There are plenty of scriptures that state why we should test and not follow men, but rather follow God. Deut 18:22 for example. 

[Shiwiii]

15 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

t’s always interesting how you think Shiwiii. That would mean that every Christian Sect, including yourself, has faults one way or another. Good point. I believe GOD calls that imperfection.

But when it comes to attempting to understand Watchtower Literature without putting your own personal spin on it, it becomes at best, frivolous.

Perhaps you should have read a little further to understand that unlike Christ, WE are all imperfect, and here’s the point Shiwiii, stay with me, “IF” the Governing Body was NOT guided by God’s Holy Spirit, then, of course, they would be subject to constant errors and the WTS would be no better than any other Christian Sect. The good thing, the Governing Body has been given the opportunity to be commissioned, and guided by God, thus supported by God’s Holy Spirit.

Your point suggests people should become heretics? Nice recommendation from a prophesied Christian.

The main difference between the WT and , as you put it, "every Christian sect" is that there is no demand to adhere to the teaching of men but instead the teaching of God. A perfect example of this is the blood doctrine, where in the Bible does it split blood into fractions? Men did, not God. If one is to read the Bible closely, about this blood and regulations of it, we can see that it is in Acts that there is the command to abstain from blood (Acts 15 and 21). It is also stated in Acts that "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy". However, reading further and after the writings of Acts, we also see where God told Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 that we could eat anything without asking questions for conscience sake. Whatever we eat and whatever we drink to do it to the glory of God.

One must seriously take a good look at this, because if a person is to believe that we are to abstain from blood fully, then no amount of men should change that. There is no fractions, no part this or part that, or even the recirculating of one's own blood. Abstinence is abstinence. For men to change this into anything other than abstinence is wrong, if that is what you believe the bible says of blood. 

You see, in "every Christian sect" other than the WT, no one is excommunicated for things that are not clear in the Bible. No one is cast out for their own interpretation of blood. It is only in high control groups that you have this "you either do as we say or your out" mentality. I know this is going to spark some denial from some of you, but in reality you already know that you have given your self control away to men. 

[Shiwiii]

11 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

You do realize you're contradicting yourself with this comment. When you decide which stance your, going to take? Then discuss it.

 

 

There is no contradiction. 

 

Also, where in the Bible does it say that one must align themselves with an organization for salvation? It doesn't, that is a man made idea to keep you under control. 

[Shiwiii]

38 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

You do realize you're contradicting yourself with this comment. When you decide which stance your, going to take? Then discuss it.

There is by contrast, a nice contradiction I can provide: 

November 15th 2013 Watchtower (Study Edition), page 20 pp 17

¹⁷ Elders who are reading this article can draw some useful conclusions from the account we have just considered: (1) The most practical step that we can take to prepare for the coming attack of “the Assyrian” is that of strengthening our faith in God and helping our brothers to do the same. (2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us. (3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. 

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131115/seven-shepherds-eight-dukes/

 

Compare this with the Feb 17th Watchtower

¹² The Governing Body is neither inspired nor perfect. It can make mistakes when explaining the Bible or directing the organization. 

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-simplified-february-2017/who-is-leading-gods-people-today/

 

Why would anyone want to follow a group of men who demand this loyalty in 2013 and then claim they really don't know what they are doing in 2017? 

[Shiwiii]

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Nope! You’re still misrepresenting the WTS literature. Either that or you just don’t understand scripture in what we can learn from applying the past to our present.

you are applying the WT literature as scripture?!?!?!? wow, just wow. 

 

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

What part of God commissions or appoints individuals worthy of those appointments to lead his people don’t you understand? Individuals didn’t all of a sudden get on the same page to comply with God’s commandment's for instance if Moses hadn’t received his calling and the ten commandments? Was Moses alone in his quest? Didn’t he need help from others to get organized? What about Aaron or Joshua?

Where is it written in the Bible that God appointed the gb of anything? It doesn't exist!

What proof do you have that the wt is selected? None! 

Moses spoke directly to God, the wt? nope, the gb? nope. 

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

How about Jesus. Didn’t he appoint 12 apostles? Didn’t one of those appointments betray him just like Raymond Franz betrayed the WTS? Were the apostles the only ones Jesus appointed to extend his ministry?

now you equate the wt with Jesus? seriously? There is only one truth, Jesus! Not some group of people in NY or any paper passed out or studied. 

 

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

JWs adhere to God’s instructions through his appointed ones.

There is no proof of this appointing and self appointment doesn't count. 

[Shiwiii]

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Well,  that's the difference, Wow!

This sums it up completely. You attribute the wt as scripture. I get that now, I just didn't really think jws thought that way. 

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Now you're just playing with semantics. Where in the bible does it state God appointed the POPE? or any other organized religion that call, themselves Christians? Please!

Exactly my point and I agree with you on this. 1 Thess 5:21 "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to what is good."

We are to diligently inspect that which we think is correct from all sources, not just the sources we are told are ok to use.

Colossians 2:8 " See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."

 

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

You might want to reread my statement. How rage can become blind!

your statement  assimilates the wt with Jesus and Judas with Ray Franz. There is no misunderstanding. What you wrote is plain for all to see. Maybe you meant something different, but it is your analogy. 

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Hmm! as opposed to who, since your soo sure of yourself, prove they aren't. Kinda like you have appointed yourself the town crier. By whose commission do you profess to sit in judgment.

The onus is not on me, but rather on those who make the claim. 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

To JWs, all sources happen's to be scripture. Thus far, the WTS has not shown signs of going off script.

so fractions of blood is where in scripture? 

 

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Wrong again, your the one manipulating the WTS literature,

I only quoted it as it was written. If you take that as manipulation it is in your head. 

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

it all comes from scripture, and the GB are responsible that everything is in harmony with the inspired word of GOD.

again, where is fractions of blood mentioned in scripture?

[Shiwiii]

3 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Wrong again. I’m not refuting the content. I’m refuting your interpretation of the content. I mentioned that to you in other threads.

I think it's time to stick to one subject, and stop bouncing around your rhetoric to win.

If memory serves, you are one of many opposers along with ex-witnesses that criticize the WTS for not allowing JWs to use blood products. This has been going on for about 70 years.

Now you're doing an 180 to attack the WTS on blood fractions. Where have you read, aside from the WTS leaving it to the conscience of the individual, where they agree or support the actual use of blood products and blood fraction by Jw's?

you can bury your head in the sand all you like, but the "conscience matter" is a blind. It is a loophole to make it seem not as dogmatic as it actually is. Did you happen to notice the young woman who died in Canada recently? It was all over the news about how there were several "elders" pressing the refusal of a transfusion, even though her uterus burst and she was bleeding out. There is now an investigation on the matter because of the undue influence upon the young woman. 

[Witness]

On 11/7/2016 at 3:13 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Can you show Scripturally that whenever direction is provided for God's people it always comes directly from God?

“ Moses said to the Lord, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.”

 So the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord?  Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.” Exod 4:10-12

 “Surely I have taught you statutes and judgments, just as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should act according to them in the land which you go to possess.  Therefore be careful to observe them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes, and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’  Deut 4:5,6

“Then Moses and the priests, the Levites, spoke to all Israel, saying, “Take heed and listen, O Israel: This day you have become the people of the Lord your God. Therefore you shall obey the voice of the Lord your God, and observe His commandments and His statutes which I command you today.”  Deut 27:9,10

A true prophet speaks God’s words, and there are many examples of true prophets in the bible.  Whether a leader chose to follow God's words, is another story.  These were sent to lead God’s people in ways of righteousness, as well as to declare their iniquities... 

“And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:3

 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” ¹² And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”¹³ Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.”¹⁴ So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.” Zech 4:11-14