Is the Governing body still "spirit directed"?

[Jack Ryan]

The feb 2017 Watchtower says the Governing Body is not inspired nor infallible.

yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directed organization?".

[Evacuated]

 

6 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

 

The feb 2017 Watchtower says the Governing Body is not inspired nor infallible.

yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directed organization?".

 

Can't see a relationship between the statement and the question.

[Shiwiii]

That is a very interesting thought. I mean, how can an organization claim to be "spirit directed" and the leaders not be inspired?

Maybe the term "spirit directed" only means that the organization tries to do what they think is right and nothing more, based on their ideas and interpretation of the Bible. Not claiming any divine direction, but rather allowing their thoughts on certain topics in the Bible guide them. I'm pretty sure most JW's would agree with this statement, but there is a problem with that though. It no longer makes the wt or JWs any different than any other religion. Isn't that what most religions claim? Do others not claim to follow the Bible/God to their best ability and interpretation? Of course they do, but the real trouble comes in when any group claims to be the sole source of understanding, or the only organization with "the truth". A group cannot claim this superiority if they are not any different that any other religion in their belief of being "spirit directed". 

On the other hand, I do believe that the wt thinks of itself as truly guided by God's spirit and not like the scenario above. There is a problem though and this is why the statement of not being inspired was created. This was done to brush off the failed predictions, to excuse the fact that many people have died needlessly over the whole blood/fractions of blood and the mishandling of child sexual abuse to name a few. By stating that they are not inspired they now get that "get out of jail free" card and at the same time still create absurd rules and requirements that are biblically unfounded. They hold onto their power over the jw's and at the same time try and cover themselves legally. I think this might have worked if it was the understanding from the beginning, but I'm afraid now it only looks like a cover up. It will work only to those who want to believe contradictory speech or ones too far invested to reverse (family/friends, etc.).   

[Jack Ryan]

@Eoin Joyce I believe this is their quote about themselves you are referring to:

[Evacuated]

8 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

I believe this is their quote about themselves you are referring to

Yes that's it. It's not so much the quote, it's your question. I can't see a contradiction between being terming the Gov Body as spirit-directed, whilst they are not "inspired" (in the sense of 2Tim 3:16).

I mean if a traffic cop directs a vehicle, the driver may (or may not) follow those directions. He may not be aware of them, might misunderstand, or might even ignore them. Or he can follow them exactly. Whatever, the driver makes the choice and the outcome will confirm he made the right choice. 

I believe the Gov Body are spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels. Their continuing good results in this indicates that they are indeed following the direction of Jehovah by means of his spirit. That seems to be the thinking behind the Feb 2017 WT quote above.

Now, if the traffic cop got into the vehicle and drove it himself, then that would be a different story. The vehicle would go the way he directs because he wiould be driving it. That illustrates being "inspired". The Gov Body are not like Bible writers who got it right even when they didn't understand what they were writing.

So for me, the wording of the baptism question remains valid.

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

The Gov Body are not like Bible writers who got it right even when they didn't understand what they were writing.

I would like to add that inspired Bible writers revealed new things that had not before been mentioned. The spirit-directed Gov Body only explain or apply that which has already been wiritten. 

[Shiwiii]

9 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

I believe the Gov Body are spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

Couldn't this be said of any religious group? If in fact that is their intention? 

I believe the Catholic Church is spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

I believe the Jewish Rabbi's are spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

I believe the Hindu's are spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

I believe the Islamic Cleric's are spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

 

Etc...

[Shiwiii]

I want to add something here that is found in the July 15,2014 Watchtower:

"The Roman Catholic teaching of apostolic succession claims that there is an unbroken succession of popes in a line extending all the way back to the apostle Peter. (The church misinterprets  Jesus’ words that are quoted at Matthew 16:18, 19.) Catholicism also claims that the pope is infallible in matters of doctrine when he speaks ex cathedra, or in an official capacity. I believed this and thought that if the pope, whom Catholics call Holy Father, is infallible in doctrinal matters and has proclaimed the Trinity to be true, then it must be true. But if he is not infallible, then the doctrine may be false. No wonder that for many Catholics the teaching of apostolic succession is the most important teaching, since the correctness or incorrectness of other Catholic teachings hinges on it! "

 

Basically bg member Gerrit Lösch states here that:

 "I believed this and thought that if the pope, whom Catholics call Holy Father, is infallible in doctrinal matters and has proclaimed the Trinity to be true, then it must be true. But if he is not infallible, then the doctrine may be false."

So then by a member of the gb of jw's, who now call themselves neither inspired nor infallible, he states that the gb's message may be false? Why then are jws forced to believe the statements/doctrines made or face disfellowshipping? 

[JW Insider]

On 12/12/2016 at 0:44 PM, Shiwiii said:

Couldn't this be said of any religious group? If in fact that is their intention? 

I believe the Catholic Church is spirit-directed in that they allow their deliberations to be guided by Jehovah's inspired word, look to Jehovah to guide their thinking where understanding needs clarification, and follow the spirit-inspired direction to preach the good news world-wide thus co working with Jehovahs angels.

I believe the Jewish Rabbi's . . .

I believe the Hindu's . . .

I believe the Islamic Cleric's . . .

I understand why you might include the Catholic Church, Jewish Rabbis and Islamic Clerics in your list, but not Hindus. Hindus do not believe in the same God, nor his angels, as far as I know.

At least Muslims believe Allah is the same God of Abraham that Jews and Catholics believe. (The Jewish/Christian Bible even refers to Jehovah as "Allah*" in the sense that the Aramaic portions of Scripture refer to God as "ilah/elah" such as in Daniel and even in Matthew where Jesus calls out to his father calling him "Eli" or "my God.") 

אֱלָהּ ʼĕlâhh, el-aw'; (Aramaic) corresponding to H433; God:—God, god.

*The AL in front of an Arabic word is the word "THE" which is added to the usual Arabic word for God and gods in general which is "ilah." Therefore "Al-ilah" contracted as "Al'lah" becomes "Allah" [and "Elahh" used 90+ times in Ezra 4-7 and Daniel 2-3 can be translated "THE God" when referring to Jehovah.  (Similar relationship between names of God like the Greek Zeus, being pronounced zdeus and therefore related to a word for God in many European/Romance languages: Deus/Dios.)

But Hindu religion doesn't seem related to the idea of the God of Abraham, the God of Daniel, or the God of Jesus.

[Shiwiii]

56 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I understand why you might include the Catholic Church, Jewish Rabbis and Islamic Clerics in your list, but not Hindus. Hindus do not believe in the same God, nor his angels, as far as I know.

At least Muslims believe Allah is the same God of Abraham that Jews and Catholics believe. (The Jewish/Christian Bible even refers to Jehovah as "Allah*" in the sense that the Aramaic portions of Scripture refer to God as "ilah/elah" such as in Daniel and even in Matthew where Jesus calls out to his father calling him "Eli" or "my God.") 

אֱלָהּ ʼĕlâhh, el-aw'; (Aramaic) corresponding to H433; God:—God, god.

*The AL in front of an Arabic word is the word "THE" which is added to the usual Arabic word for God and gods in general which is "ilah." Therefore "Al-ilah" contracted as "Al'lah" becomes "Allah" [and "Elahh" used 90+ times in Ezra 4-7 and Daniel 2-3 can be translated "THE God" when referring to Jehovah.  (Similar relationship between names of God like the Greek Zeus, being pronounced zdeus and therefore related to a word for God in many European/Romance languages: Deus/Dios.)

But Hindu religion doesn't seem related to the idea of the God of Abraham, the God of Daniel, or the God of Jesus.

point taken and you are correct. I was just making the blanket argument that most can claim the same direction as the post I replied to does. 

[Evacuated]

23 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Why then are jws forced to believe the statements/doctrines made or face disfellowshipping?

No one is disfellowshipped for their beliefs.....as far as I know.

[Shiwiii]

9 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

No one is disfellowshipped for their beliefs.....as far as I know.

Is one not reproved and told to step back in line with a sheparding call? And if they do not, is this not grounds for a meeting with the elders? Then if they still do not adhere to the teachings of the wt/gb then face possible disfellowship? 

I think you might have missed the whole point though. You are told certain things are wrong by the gb/wt and you are to "keep up with Jehovah's chariot" but these things change and you are expected to change as well. While not claiming to be inspired any longer, by their own words, why must you toe the company line? Why must you keep up with their chariot when they do not claim any more guidance than the Catholic Pope?