There's nothing here yet
By Patiently waiting for Truth
I am wondering if anyone would have a suggestion of a good / different Bible translation please ?
I use the New World Translation and also the old King James in paper format and I'm wondering if there is any other that is straight forward and reasonable in it's correctness.
I don't like reading the Bible online although it is convenient. It just doesn't feel right to me.
I do think it is good to compare translations though. Any thoughts ?
By Patiently waiting for Truth
ACTS 2 V 16 , 17 & 18.
On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel: 17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 18 and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy
Jerusalem had the end of it's 'last days' in 70 C. E. But prior to that a 'miracle' happened. Acts 2 v 1 through 11.
Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.5 At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. 6 So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? 9 Parʹthi·ans, Medes,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, 10 Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 11 Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.
We are again in 'the last days', so why would you be surprised if God should pour out some of HIS SPIRIT on a true Anointed group of humans.
Where is your faith ? Do you no longer believe in God's power ? Do you no longer believe that God can do 'miracles' ?
Your GB have admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT.
Yet here we have in scripture, God's promise that HE WILL POUR OUT SOME OF HIS SPIRIT in the 'last days'.
Are we in those LAST DAYS or not ? Do you expect God to act or not ? Or are you just physical men ?
Have you lost your 'spiritual eyes' ? Did you in fact even have 'spiritual eyes' ? Are you relying on men and not on God through Christ ?
By Patiently waiting for Truth
What should we believe and what should we question ? What should we just accept and what should we research ?
How deep should we dig in order to find truth ?
How do we really know what TRUTH is ?
Yes I'm asking serious questions and trying to dig very deeply
THE BIBLE CANON.
Now here is a lovely place to start digging. And here is a lovely place to ask ourselves, Should we just accept the Bible Canon as it is ?
“Canon” is a Greek word meaning “rule” or “measuring stick.” So the Bible canon is the 'accepted' 66 writings that the Bible holds.
Should we accept this canon or question it ? Do you know that many 'Bible scholars' did not and do not agree on the Bible canon ?
140 C. E. Marcion rejected the Old Testament, along with any writings that might reinforce views other than his own. He developed a list of books he considered acceptable: portions of the Gospel of Luke, ten of Paul’s letters, plus a letter purportedly from Paul to the Alexandrians. This list is known as the Marcion Canon. After Marcion and Montanus, lists of New Testament books begin to appear. One of the first was The Muratorian Fragment. It was discovered among the Vatican’s sacred documents by historian Ludovico Antonio Muratori in 1740 and dates to about A.D. 190. The fragment is damaged. The portion we possess begins with “the third book of the Gospel is that according to Luke.” We assume the first and second Gospels to be Matthew and Mark. The fragment lists John, Acts, all of Paul’s letters, James, 1-2 John, Jude and the Revelation of John. It also includes the Revelation of Peter, the Wisdom of Solomon and (“to be used in private, but not public worship”) the Shepherd of Hermas. In 367, Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, wrote an Easter letter that contained all twenty-seven books of our present New Testament. In 393 the Synod of Hippo affirmed our current New Testament, and in 397 the Council of Carthage published the same list. But :- In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas. The Council of Carthage established the orthodox New Testament canon in 397 AD; it was upheld at the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. in 1545. By the way, Protestants and Catholics are in agreement with their use of the same New Testament. However, were any of those men true servants of God through Christ ? Were they guided by God / Holy Spirit ? The scriptures talk about men entering into the 'congregation' / organisation that would mislead many and not act is a truthful way. A small point but of interest, is in Paul's Letter to the Colossians Ch 4 v 16 "And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa. " Here we read that Paul mentions his letter to the congregation of Laodicea, and a little bit of research will find this letter. To the Laodiceans 1 Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, to the brethren who are of Laodicea. 2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 20 And cause [this letter] to be read to the Colossians and that of the Colossians to you. There is not much in the letter to Laodicea but, if the translation I've found is correct then it is one of Paul's letters. And it was important enough to Paul to mention in both letters Colossians and Laodiceans to read both to both congregations. So, why is it not in the Bible canon ? At this point i must thank @JW Insider for his work and for his giving me much information concerning other writings of 'Scripture' and history of Bible times. Thank you. I was not aware, A, that so many other 'writings of scripture' had been written, B, that so many still exist and are available to read online. But this poses a question. If we believe that God, through Holy Spirit, has kept 'His written word' 'alive' and available for all to read, then who has kept all those other 'writings of scripture' available for all to read ? and why ? How much should we investigate and how much should we just accept ? The Bible Canon is just a starting point. We could follow up with, Do we accept the translation we have or should we try to compare it to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures ? How close to the original Hebrew and Greek can we get ? What does God and Christ expect of us ? Do they expect us to dig deeper than just reading the translation of the Bible that we have ?
By James Thomas Rook Jr.
Perhaps the KIT could be the Society's next translation project !
.... Years ago, on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, below the fold, on the right hand side (if memory serves), was a 2"x2" or so picture of Star Trek - The Next Generation's Security Officer Worf, and the article announcing the publication the KLV Klingon Language Bible.
I have forgotten many of the details if I ever knew them, as I was crying from laughter so much it was hard to see.
I do remember from the article that there were particular difficulties in doing a good job of translating, as the Klingon language is very abrupt, and there is no word for the concept of "mercy"..
I understand that the KLV Translation is somewhat like our "Silver Sword", in that it is simplified and is more like a commentary, but I think I will wait until someone puts out a Klingon Interlinear Translation of the Bible (KIT).
I guarantee NOBODY will fall asleep at the Klingon speaking Kingdom Halls, as the speakers are VERY loud, and they have a tendency to yell and spit at the same time.
You may want to sit at least three rows back.
By Srecko Sostar
You have often come across terms, God's holy spirit and God's love.
You have also often prayed for the favor of God, among other things asking that God's holy spirit help you, guide you, to have a spirit. Some Bible passages say that God gives something to people.
We find expressions that say how God gives:
- his spirit without measure - John 3:34.
- a certain measure of faith - Rom 12: 3
- a measure of grace - Eph. 4: 7
- measure of authority - 2 Cor. 10:13
- a double measure of blessing - Isaiah 61: 7
- double measure of inheritance - Deut 21:17
- double measure for bad deeds - Rev. 18: 6
Also how a man seeks or receives from another man:
- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9
- double honor - 1 Tim. 5:17
There are also allegations relating to love. How love is given or received and under what circumstances:
And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. ”- John 14:21
For God loved the world, - John 3:16
I love those who love me - Prov 8:17
Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens - Psalm 36: 5 -7
I have loved you with everlasting love; - Jer 31: 3
From these statements we can see that love also works under certain circumstances. Sometimes it's eternal, going to heaven. Sometimes it is conditioned because he says: I will love you if you love me", "if you obey, listen me".
Based on the paragraphs that speak of giving / receiving a spirit, I could conclude that God gives the holy spirit to those who seek it, and those whose hearts are pure receive that spirit from God. When GB claims that they make mistakes in word and deed because they are not perfect and because they are not "spirit-inspired," then that is just an excuse. When they claim that they are not "inspired by the spirit of God," that would mean that God does not give his spirit to anyone, not even to them. So, if they, as "God's elected," "anointed," cannot be "inspired," then they are actually sending the message that no one else can be "inspired." And then such a claim has the consequence, meaning, that God and his spirit are not able to be active. God works through his spirit, doesn't he? Well, he created the universe with his spirit ?! He wrote the Bible with his spirit ?! He uttered prophecies with his spirit ?! And today the spirit is unable to act on the few people sitting in Warwick?
Does God lie when he says, "... for God gives the Spirit without limit. - John. 3:34
Is the problem in the spirit of God? Or is it a problem in humans? :))
By Patiently waiting for Truth
I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses.
My point being, when were those basic foundations started ? Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ?
We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?
Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead', those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ?
It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know.
So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?
What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ? BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ?
So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ?
By Patiently waiting for Truth
Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town" As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc).
Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ? Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed.
Point 2. The 'Truth' / JW Org.
As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept' / Legal Dept' et al, have deliberately told many lies.
The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government.
Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning.
And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
Why am i writing all this ? Well I am proving two points.
1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one.
2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help.
By Srecko Sostar
GB claims how they are not "inspired". They also claim that the Organization is "spirit-guided". There is also an idea that God has always had his organization on Earth, the first being the Old Nation of Israel, and then First Assembly at the time of the Apostles, and after long centuries of darkness organization appeared again in 1879 as WT Society. So, we have three organizations in three time periods.
Who has guided, led these organizations? We see that organizations were guided by people. The first was Moses, then the Judges and Prophets, the Kings, and then the Apostles and today is The GB. According to the present claims of this modern organization of God, it is logical to conclude that both of the previous two organizations had been guided by God by the same principles too, meaning, that no inspirational/uninspired people were at the forefront of a spirit-guided organization.
Which tools are used to run today's organization? Thousands and thousands of pages of written text and public and private talks. All of these published texts and speeches were/are not "inspired", in fact, they presented many erroneous teachings and instructions, in the face of claims, that the organization is/was spiritually driven at the same time. So we have a God's spirit-guided organization that teaches the wrong things.
What does this have to do with past God's organizations? In the past, members of those two perished Organizations also wrote texts and held public and private speeches. Did those texts and the words been "inspired". If we judge according to today's GB teachings and the way how God, supposedly, leads a modern organization, we could rightly say that, how past leaders were not "inspired" when writing and gave speech. Because God has no need to "inspire" imperfect servants when He already has "spirit guided organization" :))
What is "inspired" in that, if someone had wrote what he has seen or heard during her life? Or if they write down their memories after a few years after the event? Most of the biblical text is precisely this - writing what someone saw and heard personally or that writing came through the oral tradition, something that other people have seen, heard, and spoken in some period of time. Only in exceptional cases, the authors of certain parts of the script, claimed that the instructions/revelations/prophecy were received through dreams, visions or God or angel directly addressed them. So, for a very small part of the text in the Bible, we can say that it is "inspired" by divine supernatural power. The vast majority of the text in the Bible is actually a retelling of the events that have been experienced - either from oneself or from other people. And for such, there is no need for extra "inspiration", but a good memory of those who recount the event and a good memory of the one who later writes it.
To bring claim that God, with his spirit, has led each of these three organizations, but that only the Israeli representatives (and writers) and representatives of the 1st Assembly (and the writers) had "inspired" directly with His spirit to make the written and spoken content, but how God changed his mind in the 19th century and gave up from doing the same way of managing his organization, it seems strange. Why would God be inconsistent with his principle of how to lead his earthly organizations? Why would God "inspire" Moses and the John (and all the rest between) to speak and write, but today he does not want to "inspire" his Anointed Representatives who sitting in GB? Was theirs time more difficult than today? Do not we live in the end time when all is much worst than before? :)))
If JW members considers that it is quite right and normal for God to lead his organization through "not inspired" texts of today's "servants of God" whose "research and knowledge was multiplied" and become far greater, clearer and safer because of more and more "Brighter Lights" that is far more advanced than before, of all what previous generations of God's servants knew and understand, then it is strange that today's texts and public speeches are so inaccurate and unsafe and need to be continually changed and corrected.
From this WTJWORG idea of how God has kept his earthly organization in continuity since Moses' time, it is not difficult to doubt the accuracy of the texts that people have collected and incorporated into a single book, the Bible. In fact, if today's WT Society (WT is equal to God's Organization) texts contain both, accurate and incorrect things, then we could assume that the old records, "publications" and "public and private talk" of Old Time Organizations, in their content were subject to the influence of the human factor too. The idea may seem strange and impossible (because "God with the spirit" leads his organizations) but that not give guaranties that such Organizations will not End Up in Some Form of Slavery (to inside and/or to outside Masters). Recall yourself how had ended previous 2 God's Organizations.
But what do you think that after 1 or 2 thousands of years from now, when we all become old dust and ashes, someone came up with the idea of choosing certain WT Society texts and create a modern "Bible" for JW?
By James Thomas Rook Jr.
I realize there are many reasons to go to an Assembly, or Convention, and when my children were living at home they would go to others' conventions for a variety of reasons, as well as their own.
I would always ask them when they returned home "What did you learn that was new?" . This was important to me as I had to work long hours to afford to finance their explorations and socialization, which I thought was important ... but I still expected them to learn something new ... and since I was paying for their travels, to tell me what was going on.
Generally, attendance to an out of town Convention nearby would cost about $200 a day, times three days, so that would be $600.
Now that I am retired, and my income has been cut by about 80%, it's even MORE important to me to want to get good value for the time and money I would be spending for my wife and I to spend three days, traveling out of town, to learn something of lasting value .... something worth at least three days of our time, which is painfully obviously shorter, and the what is now considerable effort and considerable expense.
In Engineering it's important that the "Law of diminishing returns" be observed so that you do not go physically, mentally or emotionally bankrupt.
Perhaps I am just asking for some encouragement that the effort is worth the cost and effort, and that the benefit is worth it, so if I may ask ......
WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?
By Srecko Sostar
Inspired ....spirit-driven.... spirit-guided.....motivated.....to have spirit of....lead up by spirit....to feel that spirit leads us ..... spirit impelled him .... he came in the spirit....sent out by the spirit....spirit did not permit them.....bound by the spirit...he was in the spirit....carried him away in the spirit... and many more other phrases in the Bible.
Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?
"Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions. The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?
JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.
Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about.
Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.
Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))
Voici la vidéo "Dieu accepte-t-il toutes les religions ?" en 10 langues.
Il faut utiliser VLC pour la visualiser et utiliser l'option Audio pour sélectionner la langue (Anglais, Arabe ……). Par défaut c'est le français qui est actif.
Bonne utilisation dans le service pour Jéhovah.
Toutes Religions Bonnes 3,55 min (10).mkv