what does it mean with the April 2017 study edition of the wt? Are all who were/are baptized still bound to this vow?

[Witness]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Anyone who knows all the things the Watchtower has been accused of has “always” been in, public display. Contrary to JWinsider’s popular belief, the Watchtower doesn’t hide anything, that is known to them.

They certainly hid their membership as an NGO of the UN from me and thousands more.

[JW Insider]

Allen,

You did it again! You opposed something, but then provided evidence that you were wrong and that you were opposing the truth again.

I have often kind of "marveled" at how you often take an oppositional position to certain facts and ideas and then when you present the information to try to denigrate these facts and ideas, you end up providing evidence that you were wrong and the person you were opposing was right!

Here's how you did it this time:

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That speculation started with such people as, WALLACE D. FARD that utilized any publication he could to promote his hatred for whites, but to also agree with certain biblical teaching. . . .

Then you quoted, and even highlighted a portion of the evidence that agrees with the statement I made, and would indicate that you were wrong:

12 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Finally, Fard used stories from the Bible, the Koran, books on Freemasonry, the teachings of Joseph F. “Judge” Rutherford, leader of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other sources.

I would give the same two pieces of evidence you just gave, as evidence in support of the same fact that you are opposing. You offered these bits of evidence about "Fard" as if you didn't realize that he was one of the founders of the "Nation of Islam." Therefore, if you indicate that Fard used stories from the teachings of Joseph F. "Judge" Rutherford, then you are merely providing evidence that: "Rutherford's doctrines have even been traced as a factor in the growth of the Black Muslim [Nation of Islam] movement in the United States."

As a reminder to those who may not be aware, here is the opening Wikipedia entry for Fard:

Wallace D. Fard aka Wallace Fard Muhammad /fə.ˈrɑːd/ (born February 26, 1877^[3]) was a co-founder of the Nation of Islam. He arrived in Detroit in 1930 with an obscure background and several aliases, and taught a distinctive form of Islam to members of the city's African-American population. He disappeared in 1934.

[Shiwiii]

On 1/6/2017 at 6:55 PM, Anna said:

Of course it applies to child molesters

If you are going to make these statements then please back them up with evidence. How do you know known molesters are being treated the same way as they were before they were found out? How do you know nothing is done?

Indeed. If there is no proof of murder, drunkenness or fornication then not even the Law can do anything about it. The congregation leaves it in Jehovah's hands until there is evidence. You now the saying, "innocent until proven guilty".

How is that policing???

the proof is in the Australian Royal Commission for one, which under oath admitted by each member defending the wt had confirmed that they allowed known perpetrators to remain a member and serve within the organization. Also, it wasn't just lay people within the org, but Mr. Jackson a gb member. 

another is the Candice Conti case in California and another Gonzalo Campo in Linda Vista ca. there are plenty more, but this should suffice to answer your concern. 

[Shiwiii]

On 1/7/2017 at 2:11 PM, AllenSmith said:

The question therefore is, does a 3-month-old “baby” have that spiritual maturity to make such a symbolic promise to God?

nope, i wouldnt even do that.

 

On 1/7/2017 at 2:11 PM, AllenSmith said:

Since your kind of Christianity subjugates such doctrine. While other define that promise in 2 stages. Christening, then baptism.

you are assuming you know "my kind" and you dont.

[Shiwiii]

On 1/7/2017 at 9:46 PM, Anna said:

What makes you think one has to repeat those exact words as quoted in Matt 28:19,20?

isnt that Jesus' actual words and command? why wouldn't you want to follow Jesus and what He said? 

 

On 1/7/2017 at 9:46 PM, Anna said:

Would that mean also that we have to repeat the exact words at Matt 6:9-14?

why not? Does this limit our prayers to only this? No, but it does give us a starting point for those who are just learning. Again, why not, this was Jesus' words and command? 

[Shiwiii]

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But we do need to be careful not to be confused about our dedication and begin believing that we are dedicated to the organization or to the structure and activity or people within it. Our dedication is to God and Christ.

then why is it even mentioned and considered in the baptismal questions? Why must one "agree" to that particular question at all? 

[JW Insider]

21 hours ago, Anna said:

I never thought the WT endorsed or promoted anything like that, and neither did JWI I'm sure. This is why I never bothered asking about details as I gathered this was something opposers would have been promulgating, and frankly I am not interested as it is basically the same old, same old. It is still WT trivia though, not in the sense that it itself is trivial, but it really is not important, because as you say, it's just an outrageous fabrication.

Thanks. I have never heard about opposers promulgating this. I can't see how it would add anything or take away anything from our reputation. It's not something that we as Witnesses would promote as part of our history, but it shows why it's important to keep a legal distinction that defines membership. Several denominations handle baptism very similarly.

To help avoid too much off-topic discussion here, I've added a new question on this subject of Rutherford's influence:

 

[Witness]

On 1/8/2017 at 10:43 AM, Anna said:

Just a wordier version of this: "On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?" 

 

"Just?"

 You may have answered in haste.  Look at this pitiful statement again, remembering that the person dedicating his life will never make such a decision ever again.

 What do you see wrong with this question?

I see two things,

one that the Holy Spirit is not even mentioned;

two, our dedication to Christ is barely visible in these words. 

Notice what the "wordier" versions asks:

And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?

On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain? 

The question above is a shameful mockery made to God, Christ and his Holy Spirit.

 

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Learn! Not to be ignorant.

 

So, we should take the hypocrisy of the Watchtower leaders with a grain of salt!  If it was such a well known knowledge, pray tell, why were so many articles on it written in the newspaper as a hidden fact finally exposed?  You must be savvy toward all of the Watchtower's underhanded ploys, but the majority of the sheep are just doing what they are told - obeying tricky leaders.  

"No, the UN is not a blessing, even though the religious clergy of Christendom and the rabbis of Jewry pray heaven’s blessing upon that organization. It is really “the image of the wild beast,” the visible political, commercial organization of “the god of this system of things,” Satan the Devil. So the UN will soon be destroyed along with that beastly organization." Watchtower 1984 Sep 15 p.15

Matt 12:26

You, sir, show no care for God’s people any more than the major leaders of the organization.

What a crooked road the Watchtower has placed before God’s anointed ones and all sheep.  Hab 1:4; Luke 3:4

Satan’s Throne - http://pearl-satansthrone.blogspot.com/

I have nothing more to say to you.  

 

 

[Shiwiii]

Allensmith:

G1781

ἐντέλλομαι

entellomai

en-tel'-lom-ahee

From G1722 and the base of G5056 ; to enjoin: - (give) {charge} (give) {command(-ments}) injoin.

 

you are presenting a strawman argument with your added commentary of what your perceived emphasis  should be. 

 

Also, this statement from you makes absolutely no sense: 

20 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

So, regardless if you approve of our doctrine in how we follow in Christ Footsteps, and God’s commands through the instructions afforded us through Christ, then your argument is meaningless.

 

Conditional Sentences

Conditional sentences are statements discussing known factors or hypothetical situations and their consequences. These sentences use conditional construction and verb forms, which is called the conditional mood. Complete conditional sentences contain a conditional clause and the consequence. As a refresher, a clause is a group of words with their own subject and verb. Consider the following sentence:

“If a certain condition is true, then a particular result happens.”

“I would travel around the world if I won the lottery.”

“When water reaches 100 degrees, it boils.”

The tricky part about constructing a conditional sentence is it involves many factors both in its form and meaning. Since there are various factors involved when writing conditional sentences, the rules can be explained in different ways. The properties of the entire conditional sentences are determined by the condition’s tense and degree of realness.

[Shiwiii]

17 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

 

It’s good you see your own ignorant perception of what you lack in bible understanding.

Perhaps you should heed your own words! On what makes no sense! Of course, you do understand there is updated understandings of the Greek words. But, in hindsight, it’s basically the same.

 

This will be my last comment to you.

Do you not see that people are getting tired of your dribble, the constant put downs and negativity?

You bring NOTHING to the conversations you impose upon, only angst and hateful speech. You derail topics to puff yourself up, but it fails to do so, especially when your own support evidence destroy's your own position as referenced above. 

You can dismiss me and my comment however you wish, I just hope that you actually do take the time to reflect on your communication skills.

You have dragged me into your world, where I too retaliate in kind, for the last time. 

Good day

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

.

Remember in the Musical "The Sound of Music", with Julie Andrews .  Her Screen Husband had WILLINGLY served in the Armed forces of Germany during World War I, but 20 or so years later, when the Germany he loved was taken over by evil beyond description, he refused to serve in The German Navy as a submarine commander, and he and his musical family escaped by foot over the Swiss Alps into Switzerland.

I was baptized in 1964 in Richmond Virgina at an assembly in the name of "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" ...ONLY !

In 1985 The Society changed the baptism oath which alludes to the holy spirit with a DIRECT oath of allegiance to "God's Spirit Directed Organization ... BECAUSE ... if that change was not made ... the Society had NO LEGAL RIGHT to disfellowship you, any more than they would have had the right to disfellowship ANY Jehovah's Witness before we adopted the name. ... as was demonstrated by their treasury being harpooned by many lawsuits.

Today's Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is totally controlled by the Governing Body Helpers, the Accountants, and most importantly the Society's Lawyers, who fight a never ending and increasing battle against crushing lawsuits for EVERY sort of reason.

If you have been baptized since 1985, YOU ARE STUCK!

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