How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

[Anna]

12 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Don't understand this. I think @Anna raised the topic?

Not me 😞

[Anna]

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).

It has been, and is my understanding that God doesn't "need" anything. However, in his love he had the desire to give other creatures the gift of existence, (or life), so that other beings could experience to some degree what he had (life), which included the joy of being alive. I think that the love you say God needs from intelligent creatures is actually for their benefit, not for his. He created them with a spiritual side, which only gets fulfilled with knowing and loving Him. Like a child who knows and loves his father, is in a better/happier position than a child who does not know who their father is. (Children with adoptive parents always want to know, or want to search, for their real parents once they come of age).

[JOHN BUTLER]

 @Anna (Children with adoptive parents always want to know, or want to search, for their real parents once they come of age).

Oh yes and what problems that has caused my wife and I. I'm stepfather to 4 girls. :( 

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, Outta Here said:

I have to say that sadly, I just do not follow your reasoning at all. You seem to have what appears to be something driving a rant against what you term as "WTJWORG", and then a mini dissertation on what you understand regarding the words expressed in the books of Deuteronomy and Matthew regarding the definition of the "nature" (sorry if that is a negative buzzword for you) of the human expression of love for God. You have lost me Srecko.

Rant? Ohh, i like bigger font to see it better, Not to produce noise and loud talking :)))

WTJWORG? That is my amalgam for naming two dominant things, components of your Organization, one is Corporation and another is Religion 

Nature? The type or main characteristic of something

Did i lost you? :)))) 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Srecko Sostar Sometimes you make me laugh loudly. I must not this morning as my wife is still in bed (at 10am) .  Have a good day my friend. 

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Not me 😞

??

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Did i lost you?

Long ago...

[Noble Berean]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:02 AM, Anna said:

100% true.  Somehow though I think that the idea of unquestioned obedience to a group of uninspired men exists in the minds of some Witnesses, but not all. I had a conversation along similar lines with Witnesses on another website, and when I pointed out that Br. Jackson of the GB himself indicated that we should not have unquestioning obedience to them, and I even quoted Br. Jackson to support what I said, I got thrown out of the forum. I paraphrase Br. Jackson here as I am on another computer and do not have access to the transcript where he made that quote. Basically, the gist of what he said was that "if the GB said something that was out of line with the scriptures, then all other JWs who have the Bible, would see that it was wrong direction". In other words, if others recognized from the Bible that certain direction was wrong, they would not follow it, no matter who it came from.

So really, that kind of solves the problem. Someone has to take the lead, and if we use the Bible as a measuring stick, and see that that person, or body of persons are going against the scriptures, then it would be wrong of us to obey them in that particular instance as we must obey God as ruler, rather than men.

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literature. Here are some notable examples:

• Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? (w09 2/15 pp. 24-28)
• "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." (w11 7/15 p.24 Simplified English Edition)
• "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14)

I am not sure how much clearer they can be about their attitude. They expect complete trust and obedience in their direction. For Br. Jackson to suggest that JWs would see wrong direction and not follow it is disingenuous. The truth is that adherents have continued to obey the GB throughout its self-admitted history of erring direction.

JWs are literally told that their personal views are valueless next to the direction of the organization: "He [a mature Christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding." (Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14) So, under what circumstances would JWs suddenly become aware that their personal ideas on the Bible have weight? Members are primed to put loyalty to leadership and the group ahead of their personal faith.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literature. Here are some notable examples:

@Anna  In my opinion, based on fact that no where in WTJWORG print or digital way, GJ appearance  before ARC was NOT possible to see (to read about) on JWTV Broadcasting, to empowered your reasoning, claim  before JW people on that other website. 

By that they consider you sort of "apostate" or at least person who spread false gossip. But this was good experience for you.

You, as JW are not "inspired". Bro GJ as GB of JW's is not "inspired" too. So, how than, that his words have more value than Your's ?! :)) 

[Noble Berean]

On 6/24/2019 at 2:22 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

@Anna  In my opinion, based on fact that no where in WTJWORG print or digital way, GJ appearance  before ARC was NOT possible to see (to read about) on JWTV Broadcasting, to empowered your reasoning, claim  before JW people on that other website. 

That is a good point Srecko. The audience at the ARC wasn't JWs (and any indoctrinated JW would've probably avoided viewing the ARC recording). That is why Geoffrey Jackson is able to make disingenuous comments like the one Anna brought up. They weren't meant for JW ears. Another that comes to mind is his remark that the GB claiming sole spokesperson status would be "presumptuous." He wouldn't dare say something like that to active members, because it would confuse and disturb them. No, the comments were meant for outsiders that are less familiar with the organization and less likely to question him.

The ARC is not the only time representatives for the organization have taken advantage of the general public's ignorance of JW doctrine and culture. They bend the truth to make the organization seem more open and tolerant than it really is. Another example was when a JW Bethelite stated under oath in a Canadian court that disfellowshipping does not alter normal family relations. We know that to be a false statement, but the organization has no qualms with using shady legal language to muddy the waters. There is basically a public voice and a private voice. Very alarming when the organization promotes that it has "the truth," because there aren't different versions of the truth.

[Matthew9969]

On 6/23/2019 at 11:06 PM, Noble Berean said:

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literature. Here are some notable examples:

• Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? (w09 2/15 pp. 24-28)
• "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." (w11 7/15 p.24 Simplified English Edition)
• "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14)

I am not sure how much clearer they can be about their attitude. They expect complete trust and obedience in their direction. For Br. Jackson to suggest that JWs would see wrong direction and not follow it is disingenuous. The truth is that adherents have continued to obey the GB throughout its self-admitted history of erring direction.

JWs are literally told that their personal views are valueless next to the direction of the organization: "He [a mature Christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding." (Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14) So, under what circumstances would JWs suddenly become aware that their personal ideas on the Bible have weight? Members are primed to put loyalty to leadership and the group ahead of their personal faith.

These statements does strongly imply that the governing body are idols to the rank and file.

[Jesus.defender]

True. How can we trust the current "light" they have if it is going to "get brighter" or get replaced by "new light" maybe tomorrow?

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
 

"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62

"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127

"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327