Our problem with the humility

[ComfortMyPeople]

Our problem with the humility

Humility is not a problem, obviously, is the lack of this quality that I’m referring as a problem. And when I mention “our”, I mean “our” in all our levels. And, let me be direct. I see -in general- more humility in sisters than in brothers, more in publishers than in elders, more in elders than in elders with “special responsibilities.” I’m talking in general, I know real fine examples of humility in brothers with big responsibilities in our organization.

Ask for forgiveness

This is a basic lesson parents teach to their children: “ask for forgiveness” always you’re wrong. And, as Christians we’ve received a lot of fine instruction to follow the path of humility, expressed specially when we apologize for our errors. Then…

Should the GB ask for forgiveness when erring?

Do you think the same rule all Christians try to follow also apply to GB? Naturally. And, do you usually see the GB asking for forgiveness? Before you answer, one example.

Will resurrect the unborn babies? Until 2009 we ‘officially’ thought that not. After reading the article w09 4/15 one sister told me that years ago she lost a baby in her womb. She recognizes that our teaching about the lack of hope for these creatures really hurt her. Even the quoted article recognized the possibility of these emotional wounds when mentioned:

• ·        “For those who have never suffered the loss of an unborn baby in this way, it may be difficult to imagine the feelings of those who have. Some parents grieve such losses intensely. One mother lost five children before they were born. In time, she felt blessed to raise two healthy sons. Yet, she remembered each loss. To the end of her days, she knew just how old her stillborn and miscarried babies would have been had they survived.”

What was the reason we thought in a way that caused ADDED emotional wounds to these sisters? In the same article, the GB, the “slave”, IMPLICITLY answer:

• ·        *** w09 4/15 p. 13 Questions From Readers *** Does all of this mean, then, that the Bible teaches that children who perish before birth will be resurrected? We must emphasize that the Bible does not directly answer that question, so there is no basis for humans to be dogmatic on the matter.

Do you saw? When we in the past were teaching plainly “no resurrection” WE WERE BEING DOGMATIC. This was the IMPLICIT reason. Then, if the writers of the article would have shown more humility, this paragraph, EXPLICITLY apologizing would had been perfect:

• ·        “We sincerely apologize because our previous understanding lead to these sisters to an added emotional damage… We, the brothers with the responsibility, were dogmatic. Signed: The Governing Body”

Would have been bad if the GB would have included this kind of commentary in the article? If not, why we have never found this kind of expressions? One moment! The “slave” is humble, the brothers recognize they commit errors and aren’t unerring.

“I am a sinner”

I use to give a talk about the pray. At some point ask to the auditorium what they think about my pray this night if I mention to Jehovah “Oh God, forgive me please, I am a sinner.” Now, stop for a while and observe from the platform the brothers nodding. At this point ask them “what if I modify my pray tonight in this way: ‘Oh God, forgive me please, today I’ve envied brother James a lot when he showed me his new car’…etc.”. Now the brothers nodded with more emphasis.

What I mean is that a humble person should be specific when ask for forgiveness. Sadly, I haven’t found this humility with the errors the branch in my country has made over the years, nor the errors the GB has made when publishing some information causing damages –Later I’ll try to justify them.

Perhaps someone thinks this is to be hard or lack of appreciation with the teaching and work of these brothers of the GB. Believe me, I pray for them. Whether I like it or not they are, under Christ, guiding the ship, and all of us are in the same boat –Later I’ll try to justify them.

If someone thinks this matters don’t cause wounds…

The 1975 repentance

Between many other references, I quote this, because is easily found in the WT Library (CD edition).

• ·        *** km 7/70 p. 3 Announcements *** A new circuit assembly program is scheduled to begin in September. We believe you will find it most informative and upbuilding. The public talk will be “Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970’s?

I attended this assembly. This and other declarations make us to feel very excited. After this came the disillusion but, in general, God’s people, as we serve God for love, have continued worship Him until now.

Had damage with this unscriptural emphasis to one date? These are, rounded, the average of publishers in those years:

• ·        1975: 2,062,000
• ·        1976: 2,136,000
• ·        1977: 2,117,000
• ·        1978: 2,086,000
• ·        1979: 2,087,000
• ·        1980: 2,175,000

As we can see, it had a slowdown in several years just after 1975. Was it the fault, at some degree, the GB teaching about 1975? All of we, serving in the congregations around the world, know the answer. In my personal case, as I’m alone in the truth and I was a teenager in those years, all my family laughed about my new religion and my beliefs. Weight was added to their arguments about we were a group of fanatics.

Well, what is the supposed behavior of a humble person when errs so seriously? Yes, ask for forgiveness. Some brother now is crying: “but the brothers recognized his error!” Yes, I’m witness of this. It began in the 1979 district convention. I still remember the talk and the brother assigned to the speech. Follows quotations about this talk.

·        *** yb80 pp. 30-31 1980 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses *** The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, which acknowledged the Society’s responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975.

And, the talk was partially recorded in this Watchtower article:

·        *** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 pars. 5-6 Choosing the Best Way of Life *** In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated. In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date

 Before someone says “this proves the humility of GB”, let me say this illustration.

Imagine a tourist guide in a journey by the jungle is leading a group of tourists. He lost the way and, as a result, some of the persons under his responsibility lost their life. Now, years later all finishes, he says to the group he took by the wrong way: “I wasn’t the only one wrong, all of you were also lost.”

Do you think the guide was humble? Do you think our GB showed humility? –Later I’ll try to justify them.

An Apostate Fails

This is the subtitle containing the next quote, six years after the above statements regarding the 1975 “error”:

·        *** w86 12/15 p. 20 pars. 20-21 *** “Is there a modern-day parallel to Achan’s sin? Yes, there is. […] For a recent example, during the mid-1970’s some prominent elders became disgruntled. It was below their “dignity” to witness from house to house, proclaiming the Kingdom message after the pattern of Jesus’ apostles. (Acts 5:42; 20:20, 21, 29, 30) It looked good to them to go back to Babylonish teachings. Slyly they tried to raise doubts about “the last days” and to slow down the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (2 Peter 3:3, 4) Finally, they had to be disfellowshipped.—[…]  Loyal Witnesses moved forward vigorously into the 1980’s! Likely the presence of a small number of apostates had contributed to the slowing down of Jehovah’s work during the last half of the 1970’s—when the average yearly increase in the active ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses fell to less than 1 percent. However, the annual increase in the last five years has averaged more than 6 percent. Kingdom publishers reached a worldwide peak of 3,024,131 in 1985, compared with 2,179,256 in 1975”

I remember those days. In my country almost no one could perceive any bad influence from these ex-brothers. I have no doubt those days were hard but, each reader of the above Watchtower article got the idea that the slowdown of those years was due for these apostates. Really? The 1975 disillusion hadn’t nothing to do with this?  Following with my illustration about the guide in the jungle, what if he says: “the blame wasn’t mine, this other people also contributed to the error!” Is it humility?

I think it is time to justify this behavior of our brothers in his VERY DIFFICULT assignment.

The patriarch Job and the “two witnesses”

As all we well know Job was under attack, not only by the Devil, but unconsciously also his friends cause him to develop an attitude of self-defense. This pressure forced this man to deny any error on his part. (Job 34:5) “For Job has said, ‘I am in the right” resumes his attitude. Also this quote from WT reflects well the idea.

·        *** w09 4/15 pp. 10-11 par. 14 Job maintained his integrity even though he was imperfect. Sometimes, under extreme pressure, he had the wrong perspective. For instance, he said to Jehovah: “I cry to you for help, but you do not answer me . . . With the full might of your hand you harbor animosity toward me.” Moreover, Job attached undue importance to justifying himself when he said: “I am not in the wrong” and “there is no violence upon my palms, and my prayer is pure.” (Job 10:7; 16:17; 30:20, 21)

And it isn’t true the GB is continuously under scrutiny, attack, looking them with a magnifying glass? In the old good days of the types-antitypes we would say this should be a model. But even without types, the GB is continuously criticized (this forum is a very soft example, I dislike many others places because those persons only want to spit on our faces). As one strong proof the GB is under scrutiny, let’s read about the two witnesses in Revelation, which foreshadow God’s people in our days, mainly the brothers leading the work:

·        (Revelation 11:7-12) “the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them […] And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. […] And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them.

I think is crystal clear from the scriptures these brothers would have enemies and they would be persecuted. And the hate upon them would get to the point to celebrate their killing and enjoying with the sight of their corpses.

Well, for me it justifies the attitude of the GB. I mean, I understand it, not I share it.

The difficult role of Elihu

Which side are you on? Perhaps Job thought this when heard this words from the young: (Job 33:12) “But you are not right in saying this.” And this is the situation of some of us. Our brothers overseeing the worldwide brotherhood are, scripturally under scrutiny, continuously. If we thought that some errors or injustices are made from these brothers, if we point these mistakes, it appears that we are in the side of opponents. It is a difficult role. What did Elihu? Disqualified entirely Job, as his ‘friends’? Look these exact words: “you are not right in saying this.” I hope nobody would think he was an apostate to say this.

And for some of us I think there is a quite similar situation. We respect the GB. We think these brothers are being used for God to oversee His house, as we, the elders in one specific congregation are being used for God to oversee this congregation. But sometimes, we can't deny ourselves and our intelligence, when we point out, as Elihu “you are not right in saying this.”

[JW Insider]

10 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.”

It was quite interesting that this actually is referring to the understanding of our circuit overseer, our district overseer, our elders, myself and most of my relatives, the Gilead couple who had just returned back to our congregation, and EVERY person in the congregation who was considered spiritually mature. It is saying that this understanding was based on wrong premises. Therefore, the wrong premise was taking to heart the spiritual food that came from the Watchtower publications without questioning it. The right premise therefore would have been to appreciate this idea that was being forwarded as "truth" but recognizing that it had to be questioned and tested against the Bible first. This is the right premise for all the teaching and instruction we get. If we have the right kind of appreciation for spiritual truth, then we will question and test everything presented to us as spiritual truth. If we were to accept a statement from the governing body without questioning it, we would treating it as if it is inspired. But even if it was inspired, we are still to respect it enough to test it:

• (1 John 4:1) . . .Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, . . .
• (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

Also, the entire 1976 article is informative in the way that it tried to not only blame the victim, but then said that even though you shouldn't change your life for a date, it could have been a good thing after all if you changed your life for a date:

*** w76 7/15 p. 441 pars. 15-16 A Solid Basis for Confidence ***
15 But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the “day” comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.
16 However, say that you are one who counted heavily on a date, and, commendably, set your attention more strictly on the urgency of the times and the need of the people to hear. And say you now, temporarily, feel somewhat disappointed; are you really the loser? Are you really hurt? We believe you can say that you have gained and profited by taking this conscientious course. Also, you have been enabled to get a really mature, more reasonable viewpoint.—Eph. 5:1-17.

 

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It was quite interesting that this actually is referring to the understanding of our circuit overseer, our district overseer, our elders, myself and most of my relatives, the Gilead couple who had just returned back to our congregation, and EVERY person in the congregation who was considered spiritually mature.

I find this experience regarding the 1975 furore quite intriguing. Although I did pick up on excitement about the end of 6000 years earlier, (probably 1972 was my first encounter with a brother who had cancelled his life insurance on that basis), this kind of thinking I found to be the exception rather than the rule in my (possibly) narrow field of experience.

Of course there were those who expressed their conviction centred on that date. In fact, there was one prominent brother, know affectionately as "Armageddon Ernie", who had made very strong statements about the proximity of the end for years, earning that nick-name. But these type of views were seen rather as eccentricities than doctorine in my circle.

I was aware of the statements that are now collected as lists by those who still harp on about the Society making false prophecies about 1975. My first encounter with that date was the chart in the ‘Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God,’  book which, apparently, when released by Bro. Knorr at an assembly in Toronto caused discussion of 1975 to overshadow just about everything else. Bro Franz views about the same time were published in the WT: 

*** w66 10/15 p. 631 Rejoicing over “God’s Sons of Liberty” Spiritual Feast ***
‘What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?’ asked Brother Franz. ‘Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that. 

Later though, there was this comment:

*** w68 5/1 pp. 272-273 par. 8 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
Does this mean that the year 1975 will bring the battle of Armageddon? No one can say with certainty what any particular year will bring. Jesus said: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows.” 

James put it plainly in his letter when he said at 3:8 that "no human can tame the tongue". And Pro.10:19 states the simple truth that "When words are many, transgression cannot be avoided". And it cannot be successfully argued that Jehovah's Witnesses are short on words  in any respect, official or otherwise! So there are bound to be mistakes, over-emphasis, etc. Add to that the tendency of humans  to hear what they want to hear, and to seek "official" confrimation for "pet" theories!

So it seems to me there are those who became unecessarily frothed up over the prospect of a date for the end of the system, and there are those who did not. And all sorts of in-betweens. And that on the basis of the same information. 

We are all feeding at the same spiritual table, and that includes the WT writers and GB members. And are we not all agreed that, despite adjustments and changes and developments related to the spiritual food served at that table, it still constitutes: "a banquet of rich dishes, a banquet of fine wine, of rich dishes filled with marrow, of fine, filtered wine." Is 25:6.

But regardless of clever argument, fascinating detail etc.,  it is only the word of God that is alive and exerting power in all that spiritual food. (Heb 4:12). Concentrating on anything else would be like eating the icing and ignoring the cake, drinking the gravy and leaving the meat, lapping up the dressing and leaving the salad! Bit like children (compare Heb 5:14). 

 

 

[ComfortMyPeople]

1 hour ago, Eoin Joyce said:

But regardless of clever argument, fascinating detail etc.,  it is only the word of God that is alive and exerting power in all that spiritual food. (Heb 4:12). Concentrating on anything else would be like eating the icing and ignoring the cake, drinking the gravy and leaving the meat, lapping up the dressing and leaving the salad! Bit like children (compare Heb 5:14). 

 

Dear Eoin Joyce, I fully agree with your words, when you mention that we’re all enjoying of a spiritual banquet. For example, the last regional convention with its videos, our new Life and Ministry Meeting, the Broadcasting… and many others. And I also think you’re completely right when you think about some of us as a little bit children if we concentrate on the icing, the dressing and so. Ten points my brother -you make me smile while reading your words-

And, in agreeing more with your statements, if we focus in the cake, the meat, the salad in our spiritual table, any other things pale. And what you probably mean with the “meat of our banquet” well, I feel myself privileged, as we all JW should feel. The teachings of the “slave” class in the last century and more, have had an enormous influence in our lives. Positive influence. And I’m not only talking about the Bible and God’s help (obviously the main factors), but also the help of the brothers on charge of the worldwide work. I would be ungrateful, very unfair if I did not acknowledge that.

Now, let me point out one example, following your argument, with which I agree. Take us the example of the resurrection. I think we, the JW, should be grateful to the teaching of brothers, from Russell epoch until now, because in spite the Bible is the universal book any Christian church read, all these churches believe in life after dead, hell fire, soul immortality and many other false teachings that invalidate the basic, wonderful truth about the resurrection. Truth that, therefore, I thank first to Jehovah, but also to his servants responsible to discover these truths and teach them to the brotherhood. Do we agree?

Perfect. This is the meat. Now, here they come these individuals (perhaps myself, or JWI) with our worries, perhaps, what I’ve mention in my post regarding the adjustment about the resurrection of unborn babies. My complaint in this post is the lack of humility I found in the brothers with responsibilities in producing the information. Yes, of course, I am the main example of pride! How I dare to criticize! What I was trying to say is that if, for example, I offend you in my post, you correctly would expect I apologize, right? Then, my complain is, if some of our information, our teaching has produced some unnoticed damage, why not recognize it? Yes, perhaps is the icing.

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

I find this experience regarding the 1975 furore quite intriguing. Although I did pick up on excitement about the end of 6000 years earlier, (probably 1972 was my first encounter with a brother who had cancelled his life insurance on that basis), this kind of thinking I found to be the exception rather than the rule in my (possibly) narrow field of experience.

Of course there were those who expressed their conviction centred on that date. In fact, there was one prominent brother, know affectionately as "Armageddon Ernie", who had made very strong statements about the proximity of the end for years, earning that nick-name. But these type of views were seen rather as eccentricities than doctorine in my circle.

You made some very good points. I was not referring to the type of people who cancel a life insurance policy, or stop paying their loans back on time, sold their homes, or put off all dental appointments and elective surgery, etc. I did know about people who claimed they were putting off the dentist for the next couple of years, but this was often said in jest. I knew of only one person who took that a little too seriously (the Gilead missionary) and I remember it because my father had hired him to work in one of the engineering labs at the university. I often hung out in the electronics labs in the afternoons after pioneering, and this brother's enthusiasm for 1975 was a little too embarrassing for my father. He had to tell him to tone it down, and I then heard them get into a discussion that turned toward the idea of why everyone else had faith in the "1970's  date." But "many" according to the Awake! made significant life-altering decisions:

*** g74 11/8 p. 11 Is This the Time to Have Children? ***
The evidence is that Jesus’ prophecy will shortly have a major fulfillment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time. They have chosen to remain childless so that they would be less encumbered to carry out the instructions of Jesus Christ to preach the good news of God’s kingdom earth wide before the end of this system comes.
 

Even my own parents sold their house to move into a rental near the Kingdom Hall. They also talked my brother out of using a full scholarship to a nearby university (he was good at electronics) so that he ultimately opened up an office cleaning business instead. But this might have happened anyway, and I still never think of this as related to 1975.

For myself, I was to graduate in 1975 and was allowed to quit school if I passed the GED (high school equivalency) to start pioneering in May 1973. I know full well that my own experience was related directly to 1975, because I had a serious discussion about it with my parents who were split on whether I should finish high school or not. My mother was not a fanatic about it, but often said she believed it was more likely to come in 1974 since everyone would be looking for it in 1975 and after. My father, the congregation's presiding overseer at the time, spoke about living a reasonably ordinary life because we hoped the end would come as soon as possible, perhaps even tomorrow, but we can only know that it will come within this generation, which could last from 1914 to 1994 for all we knew.

My father had been given district assembly parts in the past, but had not even been assigned a circuit assembly talk ever since he was disciplined by a district overseer for toning down a pro-1975 talk at a 1970 or 1971 circuit assembly. (These assignments started up immediately again in 1976 or 1977.) I heard my father discuss that experience with my uncle who was a circuit overseer in another circuit at the time. I know that the discipline was based specifically on his addition of Matthew 24:36 to the talk, and he was reminded about the Watchtower's comments:

*** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end.
 

We were in Missouri at the time, but yearly we visited my uncle who was a circuit overseer in California, and he was of the opinion that 1975 should be promoted strongly (this was in 1973) because even if the end doesn't come in 1975, we still know that it will be here before the end of the 1970's (1979). I didn't get involved too much in the conversation, but I must have believed about the same thing, because I remember thinking that even if it didn't come by then, I would like to apply to Bethel, and could even be there from 1976 and beyond the four years I had originally intended.

Immediately after the 1976 Watchtower, however, ideas changed completely, and everyone's view seemed to suddenly normalize. My mother claimed to never have put any weight on 1975. My uncle said it was never really emphasized that much anyway. It was surreal to me, and by the time I got to Bethel, there was absolutely no talk of working the rest of our careers at Bethel, this side of Armageddon. Mentioning 1975 was a taboo, and the July 15 issue quoted was one of the very first issues we studied for the Bethel Watchtower study after I got there. The comments by the conductor were just as surreal about putting the blame on the brothers who read too much into the "Life Everlasting" book. 

But my point was that, if you were spiritually mature, you were expected to make changes in your life based on the idea that the 1970's would bring the end of the generation, and that this idea, along with the end of the 6,000 years, would make it the "appropriate time for God to act." If you had Bible students you were expected to give them an ultimatum about making up their mind within 6 months. If you didn't believe the end would be here by the end of the 1970's you were pretty much required to believe it would be here by the end of the century (1999/2000).  

Our family also knew Brother Toutjian in California and we laughed at the way his own experience was toned down from a "1975 rootin'-tootin' Toutjian" to the way he states his own experience in a 1984 Watchtower:

*** w84 2/15 p. 25 Always Ready for the End ***
Decades of expanded activity passed quickly, and the question now was, What will the 1970’s bring? My two sons, Duane and Jonathan, and my daughter, Carmel—a fourth generation—were grown and had families of their own. We were expecting that 6,000 years of man’s existence would be reached in 1975. Would this date bring us to the start of Christ’s Millennial Reign? That possibility intrigued us.
Now we can look back on that year and appreciate that the words of Jesus at Matthew 24:36 do not allow us to fix a date for the end. 

At the time, 1984, my father admitted to me that he laughed at that line about how "that possibility intrigued us." By then my mother, still pioneering, had forgotten all memories of 1975 fever, and was already claiming that the Society never said anything about 1975 even being a possibility, even though Brother Toutjian was probably still on tape somewhere (from a 15-year-old assembly talk) embarrassing himself. 

[ComfortMyPeople]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

At the time, 1984, my father admitted to me that he laughed at that line about how "that possibility intrigued us." By then my mother, still pioneering, had forgotten all memories of 1975 fever, and was already claiming that the Society never said anything about 1975 even being a possibility, even though Brother Toutjian was probably still on tape somewhere (from a 15-year-old assembly talk) embarrassing himself. 

I suppose that a sense of loyalty could explain this kind of oblivion.

Damnatio memoriae from Romans express well this behavior. I include the link: “to cancel every trace of the person from the life of Rome, as if he or she had never existed, in order to preserve the honour of the city”

[Evacuated]

@JWInsider

Don't misunderstand me either. My apparent escape from "1975-ism" does not mean I see it as a minority fad amongst more irrational eccentrics in the congregation. Not at all. Your description of your own experience shows how one could be "embedded" in a "world" governed by this particular attitude. In your case, it appears all-encompassing, with ancestry, family, peers and role models, religious environment, career and education path, all governed by this thinking on the end time. It also illustrates to me also the world of difference in experience between those who are born into the world of Jehovah's Witness and those, like myself, who have sought out the movement as an adult. Something like the difference between the man and the travelling merchant at Matt.13:44-45.

I am well aware of the tendency among many brothers to sensationalise endtime speculation. This is reflected in the rather clumsily constructed 1968 WT expression you quoted above "one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end." I can almost hear the accompanying table thump! Even lately I have encountered responsible brothers who press for my agreement with the view that we will be unlikely to have our next Regional Convention in this system of things. And this in the face of the fact that the Society is already arranging the bookings for those delegates attending the 2017 Special Coventions abroad!

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

"many" according to the Awake! made significant life-altering decisions

This 1974 article was not specific on a "1975"  reason for postponing child rearing and showed that many had made such a decision for secular reasons. However, there will of course be those who did let a date unduly factor in their life strategy and who may well have made sacrifices on the basis of a faulty criteria. But there are also those who made, and still make, similar sacrifices without undue influence from a distorted view of "times and seasons". There are still others who chose not to make such sacrifices but who continue to serve Jehovah acceptably.

Jepthah had not considered the full implications of his vow had he? And as for his daughter? (Judges 11:30-40).

Notwithstanding the reasons any have for serving Jehovah to whatever extent they do, surely Solomon's words hold true, and this is how we should encourage our brothers: 

*** Ec 8:12-13 ***
I am aware that it will turn out well for those who fear the true God, because they fear him. 13 But it will not turn out well for the wicked one, nor will he prolong his days that are like a shadow, because he does not fear God.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

That possibility intrigued us

Hmm. "Incited" or "inflamed" more like.

Perhaps a new topic could be "What is the difference between zeal and fanaticism. Illustrate."

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Something like the difference between the man and the travelling merchant at Matt.13:44-45.

Yes. I understand, very insightful application of the "parallel" illustrations.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Even lately I have encountered responsible brothers who press for my agreement with the view that we will be unlikely to have our next Regional Convention in this system of things.

A little of that comes up every year. The 2014 Memorial was a bit over-hyped this same way:

*** km 3/14 p. 2 par. 4 Will You Seize the Opportunity? ***
Will this Memorial be our last? (1 Cor. 11:26) We do not know. 
 

Rutherford used to make statements like this in the closing comments of the annual conventions. It can turn out to be true one of these times, too, of course.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

This 1974 article was not specific on a "1975"  reason for postponing child rearing and showed that many had made such a decision for secular reasons.

True. And that is why I never indicated that it was about 1975, only that it was about the "imminent" end of this system. And you are right, the article also pointed out the possibility that your child might starve to death, or even "stab you in your belly."  

*** g74 11/8 p. 10 Is This the Time to Have Children? ***
Thus a mother in Sweden wanted . . . her thirteen-year-old daughter . . . to learn Bible principles. She asked her husband to assist . . .  She suddenly drew a knife, and screamed: “Stay out, or I’ll stab you in your belly!”   Almost daily similar experiences are heard of or read about. They even occur in so-called “good” homes, and in families where efforts are made to bring children up properly. Young couples who observe the deteriorating moral climate are not infrequently heard to remark: “I’m glad we don’t have to rear children in this wicked system.” They are determined to wait for better times to have their young ones.
,

"They" certainly weren't waiting until the problems of this system got a little better, were they? The 1974 Awake! was written at a time when there was an average 6-month lead time for Awake! articles from the time they were written until they were published, and a 4-week lead time for the Kingdom Ministry. Therefore this article about having children was likely written at almost exactly the same time as the following from the 1974 Kingdom Ministry:

*** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.
 

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

*** Ec 8:12-13 ***
I am aware that it will turn out well for those who fear the true God, because they fear him. 13 But it will not turn out well for the wicked one, nor will he prolong his days that are like a shadow, because he does not fear God.

I think of that a lot. It's true that I may have been involved with a congregation that made more out of 1975 than others, although I think that all 20 congregations in our circuit were all about the same. But even though I made decisions based on some of the articles above (and the assembly talks that went with them) I never thought it hurt me. And even if it had hurt me, it would still not have hurt me in the long run. 

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Perhaps a new topic could be "What is the difference between zeal and fanaticism. Illustrate."

Perhaps. I was surprised to discover several more things just in the last year that indicate that  Rutherford must have thought he had inherited a "cult." 

*** jv chap. 6 p. 65 A Time of Testing (1914-1918) ***
Others, on account of their deep respect for Brother Russell, seemed more concerned with trying to copy his qualities and develop a sort of cult around him.
 

I think the difference in zeal and fanaticism matters less than the motive or content driving that zeal, or even fanaticism. As Paul said: 

(Romans 10:2) . . .For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. 
 

[Evacuated]

 

15 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I think the difference in zeal and fanaticism matters less than the motive or content driving that zeal, or even fanaticism.

Well...we won't find fanaticism listed in Gal 5:22-24, although fanatics might say zeal is not there either.

[Melinda Mills]

On looking back, it looks as though everyone was given some kind of bait so that they could ramp up their zeal for the end of this system. But not exactly. They said they were "not saying".   See quote in previous comments.

People at that time including JWs were not so independent in their thinking; they were glad to have someone to follow - in this case a large worldwide organization. In fact, independent thinking is not encouraged up until now. So we can agree that it was wishful thinking - most people wanted to believe that a group of men could know when Jehovah would bring the end to this system - although Jesus had clearly said (and they had read it themselves)that "no one knows the day of the hour - neither the angels of the heavens or the Son but only the Father". And they wanted to see it in THEIR lifetime regardless of who were in danger!

(Despite everything we are still  hearing shouts of the last memorial and the last convention!)

Well, I was not deceived about 1975 but I used to deny that any kind of bait was given. I would tell people that all that was said in the chart on page 31 of the book, "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God" was that it said that 6000 years of man's existence will end in 1975. That's all!! But recently I saw some other quotes. Well I was young and interested and I read everything but I did not have the time to digest things as I do now.

JWInsider said his father used to laugh, but I remember a fairly heated discussion with my mother and my quoting the scripture at Matthew 24:36 to her. She agreed that the Bible said that, but went on to say that the Witnesses were right in 1914 (referring to the War and world change) and that they could be right again (about 1975 being the end). (I wonder how many Witnesses know that other Bible students arrived at that chronology leading to 1914 and not just the Bible students associated with Russell.) Well the best of us can be misled if we are not thinking clearly.

There is no point dwelling on that now, but we can press ahead and prepare for what Jesus actually said:

Matthew 24:42-44: "Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming".

But why would He allow us to be able to work out the year? It is simple, Jehovah does not want us to know. Respect that. But he gave some signs through his Son and told us to be ready. In other words serve him out of love every day. That is what we say we will be doing in the new system forever.

So it is clear that even his true followers will be surprised when it comes. So we cannot go back to sleep we need to improve every day and keep serving with right motives - not thinking of economics, convenience, etc., but simply being ready every day. Serving Jehovah out of love - like Comfort said a few days ago. If we are ready every day, we will be ready when He comes. That is not to say we are no longer interested in the end or that we don't care when it comes. It is like a worker at his workplace. If he really knows and enjoys his work and keeps his work area tidy he will not be embarrassed if the boss brings a high executive rom the Headquarters of the company to sit near his desk, or asks him to explain his function for the benefit of the visitor. Neither would he be a clock watcher. In other words we will have nothing to be ashamed of.

Meanwhile we continue to pursue excellence in every thing we do and continue to apply these two scriptures:

Revelation 3:2: Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your deeds fully performed before my God".

Yes, Jesus commended the congregations where they merited commendation and encouragement. But he said the above words which apply to all of us. Jehovah has lovingly allowed us the time to strengthen ourselves and others, to improve where we are weak so we will be workmen with nothing to be ashamed of. We need to have our deeds fully performed before Jehovah, Jesus' God.

The apostle Paul was also loving in his advice at Ephesians 4:23,24: (Ephesians 4:23, 24) "And you should CONTINUE to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, 24 and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty."

Yes, we have a lot of work to do on our personalities. We are a work in progress that Jehovah is molding. He is allowing time for this, because he said he is not slow concerning his promise but he is patient with us because he does not wish to destroy us but desires us to attain to repentance so he will find us finally spotless, without blemish and in peace. He also said to consider his patience as our salvation. (2 Peter 3:14,15)

So we need this time to help ourselves and others so we can be found approved by Him. Let's show by our actions that we appreciate his patience and that we love others who have not yet come to know him through no fault of their own. He is the Master of the Harvest and he knows when the harvest will be over. Agape.

[ComfortMyPeople]

5 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

It is like a worker at his workplace. If he really knows and enjoys his work and keeps his work area tidy he will not be embarrassed if the boss brings a high executive rom the Headquarters of the company to sit near his desk, or asks him to explain his function for the benefit of the visitor. Neither would he be a clock watcher. In other words we will have nothing to be ashamed of.

Melinda. I always enyoy your illustrations!

[Melinda Mills]

Quote

Glad you like them. A benefit of preaching over 50 years and being on the Theocratic Ministry School for the same period.