Do You Go to the Garage Content with Vice Grips, Duct Tape, and WD40?

[TrueTomHarley]

From Tom Irregardless and Me:

“the official website of Jehovah’s Witnesses, is the most widely translated website on earth today. This should not be surprising. If you are serious about proclaiming ‘this good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth,’ (Matthew 24:14) then naturally, you will have such a site. I’m critical of those who don’t; when your car needs repair, do you take it to the shop that has equipped itself with every modern tool? Or do you go to the shop content to operate with hammer, vice grips, WD-40, and duct tape? The extent of jw.org’s translating is amazing - it includes more than 800 languages.”

I’m dumbfounded when I see brothers unduly concerned over topics like ‘spirit directed’ or ‘Jehovah’s modern-day prophet.’  If they harp on it, I question their motive. The now-880 or so languages means nothing? How many does the next religious organization have – maybe 12? Isn’t it like comparing the modern auto shop with the one that relies on duct tape? Shouldn’t anyone serious about carrying out Christ’s commission to preach be so well-equipped? Aren’t they inept at best and frauds at worst if they have not equipped themselves in such a way?

Why would anyone want to be a fly on the wall in the inner rooms of Bethel? Who cares? It’s their business and they apparently have a lot to show for the work they do. It is Western media that drives the destructive meme that there should be no confidential talk – that it’s our business to look over the shoulders of all in government – that persons should ‘take responsibility’ or be ‘held accountable’ every time they fart.

I’ll focus on the 880 languages and the one organization that has so obviously succeeded in carrying out Christ’s words.

*****************

Tom Irregardless and Me     

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Inasmuch as honestly translating the Bible from one language to another requires specialized training, a high degree of education and written and verbal proficiency in BOTH languages, and being an advanced art as much as an applied science, especially when translating nuances interlinked with historical context and idiomatic expressions, and combinations ......

Where did they get the thousands of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

" I’m critical of those who don’t; when your car needs repair, do you take it to the shop that has equipped itself with every modern tool? Or do you go to the shop content to operate with hammer, vice grips, WD-40, and duct tape? "

Good tools are critically important ... but the MOST important tool is a highly qualified, trained, experienced, intelligent, and creative highly motivated, extremely competent "Renaissance Man" type mechanic who has the analytical skills of a Sherlock Holmes

Where did they get the Thousands of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

  Rodney Dangerfield in one of his movies was a multi-millionaire who went back to college, and hired students to do all his thesis papers, and homework for him.  A student handed him a stack of papers about three inches high, and he, weighing it in his hands, said something like " You call this a term paper?  Add about two pounds!"

.Where did they get the THOUSANDS of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

In 50 years of observation from Norway, to Peru, and the Congo, and all over the United States ... I have only POSSIBLY met three, among the Brotherhood, and I am NOT one of them.

 

.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

The thousands of highly specialized and talented people you keep referring to are all outside, where their combined efforts don't amount to squat because they don't know how to cooperate.

Cooperation, love, humility, coupled with reasonable intelligence, will trump your qualities every time. Remember: the organization has 8,000,000 people to draw on. Just because they don't strut around and boast of their talent and highly specialized knowledge doesn't mean they don't exist. When the organization needs someone with truly stellar ability, they just reach into the ranks and get one. Or train one. Our people are generous with their knowledge. They don't hoard it.

Peruse JWBroadcasting and you will learn of schools to circumvent the translation problems you speak of. You will find it if you search. Frankly, given the JW track record and accomplishments, outside translators should come to us for pointers, not the reverse.

 

Where did they get the THOUSANDS of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I agree with the tone, and I remember when the New World Translation came out circa 1962 after literally DECADES of work, and for a year or so in the Ministry School we studied WHY it was better than then available translations ... however, in the intervening half century, education and critical analysis has been unremittingly discouraged at the level that would produce a new generation of scholars and people such as Freddy Franz.

I disagree with your statement

  "The thousands of highly specialized and talented people you keep referring to are all outside, where their combined efforts don't amount to squat because they don't know how to cooperate."

... and submit as evidence that July 20, 1969 after 8 years of groundbreaking work by hundreds of thousands of scientists, administrators, politicians, technicians, construction workers, machinists, and countless other types .... mankind crossed 240.000 miles of hard vacuum and landed on our Moon, and returned home safely. 

Examples of cooperation at this scale are endless, and legion.

Several years ago I had the piping reworked and replaced around my heart, and they cut me open, made the repairs and put me back together with no blood ... but " ...Cooperation, love, humility, coupled with reasonable intelligence, will trump your qualities every time. " would have killed me. Manny the heart surgeon and used car salesman had those qualities, and it scared the HELL out of me, and I went to a hospital in an ambulance with 6 very busy people trying to keep me alive to someone I have never met, even now, who COULD do a precision job without blood.

There is a "saying" among Engineers ... "..if it cannot be expressed in numbers, it is NOT fact, it is opinion ... and even carefully considered and thoughtful opinions .... mine ... yours .... and everybody elses', we are certainly entitled to ... and (to paraphrase...), " ... opinions are like bodily orifices ... everyone is entitled to at least five.".

That having been said, translating ANYTHING into 880 different languages can be done at a rudimentary level, or with high precision.

The difference between Pi being 3.14, and 3.14159... (expanded),  is the difference between getting to where you want to go, and ending up lost in space, or buried in a cornfield.

... and now, speaking about skills and coordination, and competency ... for something completely different ... depending on your level of perception ....

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

 

If all the highly specialized and wonderfully cooperative and phenomenally briliant people that you so admire and imagine you're one of succeeded in going to the moon, they should have stayed there. I notice you made no reference to the translation resources on JWBroadcasting that I pointed to that would have furthered any discussion. 

Since you plainly loathe everything JW, why are you here?

Tom

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

You have COMPLETELY, and TOTALLY  misunderstood everything I have said. and then asked me a question made on a FALSE premise, much like the classic "Do you STILL BEAT your wife?" example.

______________________

" If all the highly specialized and wonderfully cooperative and phenomenally briliant people that you so admire and imagine you're one of succeeded in going to the moon, they should have stayed there. I notice you made no reference to the translation resources on JWBroadcasting that I pointed to that would have furthered any discussion. 

Since you plainly loathe everything JW, why are you here?

Tom "

-----------------------------

There was a discussion ALREADY going on, between you and me, and rather than logically and reasonably SHOW HOW 880 languages can be accurately translated with the resources we have available, your reply was based on theories NOT in evidence .... and then the insult (paraphrased) "OH YEAH ... wellllll ... uh... they should go to the moon and STAY THERE!"

Of course, there is no way for you to recover from your false assertion that  Earth's general population cannot cooperate, given the SPECIFIC classic examples I gave, showing blatantly that you are WRONG!

I am a retired Engineer and I have worked on projects that used tens of thousands of people for over 20 years to accomplish things those not familiar with such things cannot even imagine, so it is clear we, you and I, see the Universe through COMPLETELY different colored glasses.... and have a reallllly good feel for how many people it takes to produce precision documents ... I personally spent over 50 YEARS ...  50 years doing exactly that.

Since you have declined to address my specific points with a rational rebuttal .. it appears that you are totally flummoxed in the same manner as  Tinkerbell attempting to use her magic wand to dust Peter Pan with Pixie dust, and finds out she forgot to refill it the night before, watching Peter and Wendy go out the window of her home, and  "SPLAT!" on the cobblestone streets of London below

.

 

 

 

... by the way Tom, your comment .....

" ... Since you plainly loathe everything JW, why are you here?

Tom "

.... is what is known as an "Ad Hominem" attack  ( Instead of addressing an issue, or issues, attention is diverted to attacking the man.) ... when one is losing an argument the classic attempt is to divert to disparaging the character of the other person, by accusing them of anything that  might induce an emotional, visceral reaction, to intimidate the other person, or an audience.

.

[TrueTomHarley]

That final sentence of mine was actually a question, not a - whatever you called it

Nonetheless, that was indeed a devastating put-down. I'm done.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Tom ...tom, oh Tom, oh Tommytomtom ....

Your ":question" ....

" ... Since you plainly loathe everything JW, why are you here?

Tom "

Yeah, it was a question. The reason I could tell is because it had a question mark at the end ... but what it was actually was a cleverly disguised FALSE PREMISE ACCUSATION ...

.

[TrueTomHarley]

Dr. Woo, from another post, has learned some very big words since he left his cult, and he imagines that he alone knows what they mean.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Woo Who?

[TrueTomHarley]

In the non-Witness world, there are brilliant people, smarter than us. When their efforts can accumulate, they go to the moon. They do open heart surgery.

But there are many inefficiencies. Every participant has accumulated tens of thousands of dollars of university debt (sometimes more) along the way. Even so, through circumstances or personal weaknesses, many have stumbled over the hurdles and are now working at MacDonalds to pay off their college debt.

The successors from the university system pass their knowledge along, but only for a significant fee. They thus price their knowledge out of the reach of most humans. It is not their fault. They are often fine persons. It is the fault of the selfish model where they make their home.

In contrast, one expert in Jehovah’s organization can do what fifty cannot in the outside world. Free from petty competitiveness and jealousy, they give their knowledge away. They are thus ‘bringing their gift to the altar.’ The GB generally has no specialized knowledge in anything, but they know where to find it when they need it and they coordinate it. They put the teachers in touch with those who will benefit from it.

It is in this way that such astounding feats as the 880 languages are accomplished. The educated world has long assumed that only they are capable of doing anything smart. They are dismayed to find persons they look down upon have outstripped them at some things. Those who are noble strive to get their heads around it and examine how it happened. The ones not noble stand on their favorite paradigm and ridicule the accomplishment that they did not produce.

[Anna]

On 2/15/2017 at 1:38 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Where did they get the THOUSANDS of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

Although this sounds like a rhetorical question, I am sure you want someone to answer it. First another question. What's your theory?