Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community

[Anna]

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

YOU HAVE A CHOICE .... Remain ignorant, and by extension deliberately choose to be a fool .... or find out what is REALLY going on around you.

It’s always easy to see what should have been done after the fact. It’s not always the case when you’ve been thrown head first into a situation, one perhaps you have never encountered.  Reminded me of the  movie Sully (about the pilot who landed his plane in the Hudson) where he is being accused by the transport safety board of a bad decision;  for not having taken the plane to LaGuardia, as all the flight simulations showed he could have landed the plane there quite safely. Instead, he opted for the risky landing on the Hudson. In the hearing, Sully reminds the Board that the flight simulations, although using live pilots, are devoid of the human factor. The pilots in the simulation already knew what they were going to do, they knew that immediately after the bird strike they would turn the plane around and head straight for the airport. They had practiced this 17 times! However, in real life, this would have never happen of course. A pilot confronted with this situation would need time to decide what his best options were and he would only have one shot at it. To take this into account, the Board gives Sully 35 seconds to allow for this human factor. Needless to say, in the revised simulations, the plane never makes it, and crashes. Also, the preliminary investigation of the engines showed that one engine was still functioning. This was later found to be false, both engines were rendered useless by the bird strike.  Sully got away with being a hero, and rightly so. However, had the Board not been generous in admitting the human factor, and had the second engine not been found, his eventuality may have been quite different. He could have been charged with pilot error, and of needlessly putting the lives of 150 people at risk. Had some lives been lost, he would have been held responsible.

Child sexual abuse is much more complex than people would like to believe. One can never be sure of exactly what happened and the situation surrounding it. There is no black box or flight recordings.  Many of these cases are brought to light many years later.  There may be all kinds of evidence, but there is no guarantee that this evidence is wholly true or is fool proof. Many times elders involved in these cases have encountered them for the first time and due to human factor have not reacted perfectly or according to the book. On top of that, secular attitudes and laws keep changing.  What doesn’t help in the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that most of the abuse occurs in the home, and many times in dysfunctional families.  The world hasn’t got it right either. Hence the institutional investigations. These will hopefully improve the way child sexual abuse is handled across the board in all institutions, and thus will help to safeguard as many children as possible.....

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This March the Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse #29 will have a week long follow up, Case #54, or #57, if memory serves.   THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS ALL ABOUT THIS, as Intrepid Traveler's links show.

The whole world does not know about this at all. It's not as important to many people as you think. (And I mean non JW people). Besides commissions set up to investigate this problem, the people it interests most are journalists, Lawyers, opposers, ex-JWs and JWs who know about it.

 

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and if Justice interferes with the cash flow ... Justice is the FIRST thing that is abandoned."

Don't put JWs in the same basket. You should know better than that JTR

 

 

 

[Witness]

The attached youtube video is of Archbiship Mark, giving his message to ALL, Catholics as well as the general public.  After listening to his message of promise, can any JW imagine the GB making a similar public announcement prior to the Watchtower's meeting with the ARC?  I certainly cannot.  Instead, the only way Jehovah’s Witnesses will know of the WT's own ARC hearing is by contact elsewhere on the internet, or through word of mouth – not through jw.o r g.

It appears that the organizational image and its website cannot be tainted by such negative news; news that would shatter the image of a “spiritual paradise”.  Matt 23:25; 1 Thess 5:3  It is more likely that JWs will hear from their leaders that the press and the internet can’t be trusted.

Peace and Security - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/08/whats-wrong-with-peace-and-security.html

 

[TrueTomHarley]

The backdrop of all pedophilia stories is that authorities are frothing over their inability to make a dent in child abuse. We all know it. You can't throw a stone in any direction without hitting ten pedophiles. The authorities drop 95% of what is thrown to them. We all know that, too. Constantly we hear of crimes against children by people who were already on the sex offender registry, which is so watered down with 'innocuous' offenders that it is worthless as a tool to law enforcement. The young man who had sex with his underage girlfriend whom he later married does not belong on the sex offender list. The Economist Magazine in 2009 (easily searchable) ran a series on just how chaotic and useless such lists are.  Today such lists are mostly a tool of public shaming or even revenge - they do little to protect children. The authorities who must monitor internet child porn in order to do their jobs liken it to Medusa - one look and you turn to stone. The battle is not being won. It is being lost, and authorities are pulling their hair out over it.

[INTREPID TRAVELLER]

The issue at the heart of Pedophilia within the WTBTS is about THE LACK OF RESPONSE on the part of the LEADERSHIP . Not about how many pedos's there are / were !

Its about the lack of action

Its about the lack of protection and help afforded the victims.

Pedos will abound and so too dsysfunctional families

What is the WTBTS going to do to remedy ITS policies on the matter ?

The links I posted are merely attempting to emphasize this - WTBTS has not done anything worthwhile to address the issue - that's the disgusting part about this ! Those links are not my sole possession - they are in the public domain. The ARC is not attempting to Publicize it world-wide. However the WTBTS WILL NOT make it Public now will they? Why not ?

[TrueTomHarley]

The general rule is that where the law requires the names of even suspected abusers to be handed over to secular authorities, the JW organization will do it. That's further than most go. Two thirds of those required by law to report persons they suspect of pedophilia, such as medical people, do not do it.

[Witness]

28 minutes ago, TrueTom said:

The general rule is that where the law requires the names of even suspected abusers to be handed over to secular authorities, the JW organization will do it.

"...where the law requires..."

In all cases?  No, which we see revealed by the many lawsuits.   And why is it that a law is necessary to twist the arm?  Love would compel the elders to act in the best interests of the victim.  Love would motivate the GB to make sure council is given in righteousness.   

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.  The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.  No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.  

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” 1 John 3:7-10

 "Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:28

 

[TrueTomHarley]

39 minutes ago, Witness said:

"...where the law requires..."

In all cases?  No, which we see revealed by the many lawsuits.   And why is it that a law is necessary to twist the arm?  Love would compel the elders to act in the best interests of the victim.  Love would motivate the GB to make sure council is given in righteousness.   

 

 

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.  The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.  No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.  

 

 

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” 1 John 3:7-10

 

 "Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:28

 

 

 

 

"And why is it that a law is necessary to twist the arm?"

What a stupid question! It is required to go beyond the law? Then why doesn't that become the new law? Isn't that the purpose of laws? One would think no law would be easier to write, for pedophilia is everywhere condemned. Please don't tell me that legislative bodies today don't know how to write laws.

So write a more demanding law if that is such a valuable thing. Why do authorities not do it? I don't really know. Perhaps they do not want to legalize hearsay. Perhaps they are discouraged that existing laws go unheeded. But in the meantime, it is necessary only to comply with current laws regarding pedophilia. 

In fact, you may get in trouble if you 'go beyond the law.' If I was a pedophile, and my church handed over data on me when they didn't have to, and normally should not due to clergy-penitent confidentiality, which is the same as lawyer-client confidentiality and doctor-patient confidentiality, I would sue the pants off them.

On the New York State Thruway, the law is 65 MPH. Do you drive 55, so that you can go beyond the law. Make the law 55 if that is the proper course to take

[Ann O'Maly]

1 hour ago, TrueTom said:

The general rule is that where the law requires the names of even suspected abusers to be handed over to secular authorities, the JW organization will do it. That's further than most go. Two thirds of those required by law to report persons they suspect of pedophilia, such as medical people, do not do it.

Actually, the ARC found that wasn't so - not one alleged abuser was reported to the authorities, even though some states required it. E.g. I remember the consternation on Br. Spinks' face (Service Department) when it was put to him that they hadn't complied with NSW law about reporting if one has knowledge or a belief that a crime had been committed.

The Fessler case brought it to light that the Org did not comply with PA law by reporting the abuse. Not only that, but even when Watchtower has been court-ordered to produce documentation, it has done everything it can to wiggle out of or obstruct the production of documents, like with the Campos cases.

So it's fair to say that the general practice in the Org has been NOT to report suspected abuse to the secular authorities.

Where did you get the 'two-thirds' statistic from, by the way?

12 hours ago, Anna said:

Child sexual abuse is much more complex than people would like to believe. One can never be sure of exactly what happened and the situation surrounding it.

This is exactly why trained professionals should handle all allegations, rather than untrained elders. Besides, when laypersons bumble in, trying to ascertain the truth of an allegation, they can (unintentionally) corrupt any evidence-gathering which, in turn, compromises the case, making it harder to successfully resolve.

[TrueTomHarley]

If they have ever failed to comply with law, then they have erred and there will likely be a price to pay. They will use lawyers to negotiate a settlement. Everyone else does - why should they not? The general rule is that they comply. Any investigative body looks only at cases where they, for whatever reason, have not. Maybe such cases accumulate - I don't know. Maybe our people have erred in handling some matters. Or maybe laws have been retroactively interpreted to skewer a people that some hate. I lean toward this latter view because I know our people, but once again, I don't really know. But the term 'loophole' would not exist if laws were straightforward.

The two-thirds quote comes from an article in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle and it was written in connection with the Penn State - Joe Paterno scandal:

“….it's a mistake to think that the failure of Penn State authorities to report the abuse is a rarity....Studies over the past two decades nationally have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals who are required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so....."I think that we fail miserably in mandated reporting," said Monroe County Assistant District Attorney Kristina Karle...”

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTom said:

What a stupid question! It is required to go beyond the law?

I am sure you are aware that the elders are not trained to handle the emotional trauma that results from child abuse. By your words, you also have lost sight of Christ’s love, its action and motivating power.  If it were your child who was abused, wouldn’t you do your utmost to find professional help, and also consider the large possibility of repeated abuses by the perpetrator to those not only inside the congregation, but outside the congregation?  Side point, how would you feel if your little girl was required to relate their abuse in front of two or three men - in detail?

 Does a law have to motivate you, or shouldn’t it be the concern and compassion not only for your own, but for others?

IF the perpetrator is disfellowshiped, does that bring an end to the threat? 

“If you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they?  And if you greet only your relatives, that’s no great thing you’re doing, is it? Even the unbelievers do the same, don’t they?  So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”  Matt 5:46-48

 

[TrueTomHarley]

Nobody is saying for a moment that victims cannot go to authorities. Nobody has any issue with that.

I will say, in passing, that I have not read any of the links that Intrepid Traveler has pleaded with me to read. He is not my friend. I know that if there are any culpable circumstances, they will be underlined and bolded. If there are any mitigating circumstances, they will be ignored

I almost count it as an act of loyalty to not read his links. I am not ashamed to side with the organization the facts convince me is being used by God today. Nobody else comes remotely close replicating the work they do in telling Kingdom good news. These people are my friends.

If I don't read Intrepid's links, I do not feel I am putting blinders on myself, for I am perfectly willing to concede they may, in essence, be true. Maybe our guys did screw up. If so, they'll adjust their ways. If it results in the payout of some 'dedicated funds,' there is no positive way to spin that. But even that can be put in perspective. The dedicated funds would be much greater anywhere else, where no one, like clergy, and especially like attorneys, work without receiving significant remuneration.

I am also genuinely concerned about damaging Intrepid Traveler's health. He is so clearly having an orgasm over this issue that if he learns I have responded to his pleadings it may be the last straw before his splitting a gut.

[Ann O'Maly]

3 hours ago, TrueTom said:

The two-thirds quote comes from an article in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle and it was written in connection with the Penn State - Joe Paterno scandal:

“….it's a mistake to think that the failure of Penn State authorities to report the abuse is a rarity....Studies over the past two decades nationally have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals who are required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so....."I think that we fail miserably in mandated reporting," said Monroe County Assistant District Attorney Kristina Karle...”

Thank you. 

Filling in the ellipses:

"But it's a mistake to think that the failure of Penn State authorities to report the abuse is a rarity, child abuse educators, prosecutors and investigators said. Studies over the past two decades nationally have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals who are required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so because they are uncertain of whether abuse occurred, are fearful of making false accusations, or are unsure of their obligation. "

The Spring Grove and Freeland Maryland elders were aware of a romantic and sexual relationship between the minor victim and the middle-aged abuser. A JC was formed and they reproved them both. There was no uncertainty that prevented the elders from reporting to the authorities. As for the Org's Legal Department, which is supposed to be consulted when instances of abuse come to light, its job is to be sure of the congregation's legal obligations.