Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to change two-witness rule because ‘that’s our stand’

[Guest Nicole]

CHILD sexual assault is a secret crime carried out by men and women who do everything they can to avoid detection.

Which is why one passage in the Bible is a Get Out of Jail Free card for offenders, particularly when adhered to so strictly by those within religious organisations.

Timothy 5:19: demands followers “do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses”.

It’s a message echoed in Matthew 18:16: that reads, among other things, “ ... at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established”.

The two passages became the focus this week of a royal commission into institutional child sexual abuse within the Jehovah’s Witness church in Australia, of which there are 65,000 followers.

Having adopted a number of recommendations in the name of greater transparency, there was only one thing the church refused to change: a 2000-year-old protocol requiring two witnesses before a child sexual assault allegation be investigated.

Before the commission, Jehovah’s Witness spokesman Terrence O’Brien said the church “considered the implications of the finding” that the two-witness rule should be scrapped.

“And your response is that the two-witness rule is required by the scriptures and can’t be changed or avoided?” he was asked.

“That’s correct. That’s our stand.”

But it’s a stand Dr Cathy Kezelman, who deals daily with victims of child sexual abuse, labelled “ludicrous”.

The president of the Blue Knot Foundation told news.com.au the rule is problematic because abuse of children is so rarely carried out in front of a witness.

Angus Stewart SC questioned Jehovah’s Witnesses at the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse in Sydney this month. Picture: Jeremy Piper/AAPSource:AAP

“The idea that you need a witness is a ludicrous one,” she said. “Obviously sexual abuse is a secret crime. It tends to be a private crime, which by virtually every definition has no witnesses.

“That’s one of the reasons sexual abuse against children has been able to flourish.”

She said children “rarely” make up stories about being abused and most don’t have the language to describe what happened to them. She said the trauma she sees is long-lasting.

“What we know about sexual abuse is that it is often extreme, it often goes on over a long period of time and during a child’s developmental years. It’s an abuse of power and a betrayal of trust. Within religious institutions we see the betrayal is compounded when the child tries to disclose what they’ve been through.”

Dr Kezelman said it was disappointing Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to change the rule but other churches were making positive steps.

On Sunday, the Uniting Church in Australia apologised to children sexually abused in its congregations.

The president of the church’s general assembly, Stuart McMillan, said he was “deeply sorry”.

“We are, and I am, deeply sorry that we didn’t protect and care in accordance with our Christian values for those children.

“I want to acknowledge the impact that it’s had in the lives of those young people and to say I’m truly sorry.”

The investigation into decades of sexual abuse within the Australian arm of the church is making news around the world.

The Washington Post reported that victims were often forced to confront their abusers in person and that all complaints — which averaged 12 each year for 65 years — were meticulously recorded and sealed.

When there were less than two witnesses, the complaints went nowhere. All because the church invested so heavily and read so literally into Matthew 18:16 and Timothy 5:19.

rohan.smith1@news.com.au | @ro_smith

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/jehovahs-witnesses-refuse-to-change-twowitness-rule-because-thats-our-stand/news-story/ee1f5bdd2561d99f6d1f608f039ee200

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Just as a person has the natural right to bear arms to defend himself or his family ... there are those that will pervert this into the right of a Bear to HAVE arms, defend the position for short sleeve shirts, and use references to support bare arms, or other irrational goofiness.

When irrational goofyness reaches a certain level it transforms into unadulterated EVIL.

Did you ever see the classic "must see" movie "Deliverance"?  Bodies and evidence disappear, or is never found or linked ....  all the time. 

There are infinite variety scenarios to everything ... including making, in the game of Golf, a "hole in one" that would NEVER have happened if not for a squirrel that dropped an acorn out of its mouth a hundred years ago, it grew into an oak tree, and now in the present day, the golf ball bounced off of the tree ... rolled across the green, and plopped into the little cup.

Add time element to "WOW! What are the chances of THAT ( ... pick anything the mind can imagine ..) happening ?".

It helps to think about such things after three beers, while sitting in a darkened room, in a comfortable chair.

This would be an "Infinite Variety" scenario.

Let's say I murdered "Bro. Jack" .....  "Bro. Bobby" saw me do it, and I took the body several states away and buried it in a corn field ... and denied I had ever been with Bro. Jack and Bro. Bobby that day ... that I had been, say, walking in the woods taking photos somewhere in the other direction.

To everybody else but Bro. Bobby .... Jack just disappeared.

According to the "two witness rule", the elders COULD NOT EVEN REPORT ME TO THE POLICE for investigation.

Why?

Only one Witness.

BRO. BOBBY, however,  could report me to the police, as any responsible man with a conscience would and should, and would HAVE to do to avoid MORAL complicity in a CRIMINAL activity, and and deny JUSTICE to Bro. Jack.

If we as claimants to God's special favor, and carry his Name,  deny basic, elemental, natural human MORALITY, that even most atheists are born with, and continually pervert Justice ... it is WRONG .. and a great slander and reproach on our God, Jehovah, and his reputation.

... and, it makes the administrators of those policies ..... EVIL.

... and a million published words, spoken and written a thousand times, will not make that go away.

When irrational goofyness reaches a certain level it transforms into unadulterated EVIL.

.

 

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

According to the "two witness rule", the elders COULD NOT EVEN REPORT ME TO THE POLICE for investigation.

Do you need two witnesses to report a missing person in your neck of the woods (or swamp)?

Better example please!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Do you need two witnesses to report a missing person in your neck of the woods (or swamp)?

Better example please!

A better example is not necessary ... you have confused two different issues.

Anybody can report a missing person .... even "Bro. Bobby", who in this example SAW me kill "Bro. Jack".

But if he talks to the Elders first .. he most likely won't go to the Police ... they will talk him out of it so as to not "sully Jehovah's name".

Keep it hidden, keep it quiet ... that is why as of this date March, 18, 2017 ... the website JW.Org's World News has mentioned nothing, Nothing, NOTHING, NOTHING!, about the Australian Royal commissions investigations  ... NEWS .... Real news.

Zero, zip, nada, goose eggs ....

Bro. Bobby is completely free to call the Police and have THEM investigate ANY crime, but because of the Pharisaic APPLICATION of rules that existed thousands of years ago, in a completely different structured civilization and culture, where trials were held in the city gates for all those inside the city and outside the city to be able to see with their own eyes how Justice was administered... we have institutionalized craven cowardice in the REAL application of Justice.

Justice has become a billion words ... but has also BECOME an extreme rarity in real life, because doing what is RIGHT is never, ever considered .... only what one is FORCED to do. (...PLEASE make us do what is right - GB Geoffery Jackson ....).

This is not new.

The Bible records three three Elders that counseled Job in his misery for three days ... but had NOTHING worth recording to say.

Words, word, and more words ... and Justice is aborted.

A child molester in the Congregation today with only ONE witness is, and denies it, can retain his congregational standing ... and because the accusations cannot be acted upon, he or she cannot be reported to the police ... by the Elders.

The instructions are to "Leave it in Jehovah's hands ...".

This is a CRIMINAL activity ... but in 50 years in over 5,000 cases involving 1,006 alleged perpetrators ... in one country alone, at the "bottom of the world",  the solution was to keep the details hidden in envelopes  in congregational and branch files, and mail copies in special blue envelopes to Bethel in New York.

Like Nixon's Watergate ... the cover-up is what became global news.

In the old Soviet Union, the major newspaper was named "PRAVDA" which means "TRUTH".

All news extolled the wisdom and competence of the Communist leadership, and allegiance and respect for  the good job they were doing.

Then their administration collapsed of it's own arrogance, and incompetence.

[JayDubya]

We all can agree that child abuse IS wrong.  Jehovah NEVER would allow it.  What human would for that matter!

I think ( and I'm nobody)  the problem comes in when we 'report' these horrendous acts to the older men instead of the 'proper authorities'.  Molesting a child forces them to deal with adult feelings, situations and matters they are ill equipped to handle.

 Perhaps that's why the  baptism of babies and very young children should not take place, because it's a conscious decision that should be made by a consenting, mature person.  

No doubt we are all sickened by anyone who would dare to abuse a child! And then lie about it!! 

But the question I believe 'we' struggle with- those of 'us' who would keep quiet or not report to proper authorities - HOW MUCH OF THE BLAME BELONGS TO 'US'?

Read any article- peer reviewed journal- you'll see that children who experience abuse need more than prayer.   I'm not taking away its power- but do you really think silence will make the trauma go away?  And god forbid they all remain in the same congregation!  What are 'we' teaching the child about trust? 

And god forbid AGAIN- that this child grows up and is promiscuous and df'd or worse yet- reoffend.  (Maybe that should be flipped)

Who's to blame- Satan? 

Today- and I do say today- if it happened to my child, I'd pray not to go off, I'd call the police (while still praying) comfort and support my child and do all I can to get him/her the proper assistance. I'd let him/her know that Jehovah does NOT approve of it - no one does and it is wrong and I will do everything in my power to make sure that brother/sister pay for what they've done.  

Having said that- if it were NOT my child... well, when does the right thing to do become wrong?  

We are talking about crimes committed against children! 

[Witness]

Zech. 7:8-14, NWT: 

The word of Jehovah again came to Zech·a·riʹah, saying: 

“This is what Jehovah of armies says,

‘Judge with true justice

and deal with one another in loyal love and mercy.

Do not defraud the widow or the fatherless child,

the foreigner or the poor;

and do not scheme evil against one another in your hearts.’

But they kept refusing to pay attention, and they stubbornly turned their backs, and they stopped up their ears so as not to hear.

They made their heart like a diamond and would not obey the law and the words that Jehovah of armies sent by his spirit through the former prophets.

So there came great indignation from Jehovah of armies.”

“‘Just as they did not listen when I called, so I would not listen when they called,’ says Jehovah of armies.

‘And I scattered them with a storm wind throughout all the nations that they had not known, and the land was left desolate behind them, with no one passing through or returning; for they turned the desirable land into an object of horror.’”

Jer 51:6; Rev 18:4-8
 

[HollyW]

There are ALWAYS two witnesses to every case of child abuse: the victim and the abuser.  

And while JWs require more witnesses than that in order to do anything to the abuser, the law does not.

In the USA, most states and a number of territories require people in certain professions to report child abuse to the proper authorities. 

In some states and in Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report it to law enforcement.  

You may want to go to the elders so they can punish the abuser and protect the congregation, but they and you may be required to report it to the proper legal authorities (not WTS Branch office or lawyers) regardless of who witnessed the abuse besides the victim and the abuser.

[bruceq]

  Human standards and practices are always inferior to Jehovah's standards. God's Word endures forever the countries laws that you may follow do not. Jesus said to eat his flesh and blood, but the LAW said that was wrong. Would you obey Jesus and be submissive even if you do not understand the reason for it?

"All Scripture is inspired of God+and beneficial for teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,+ ¹⁷  so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16.

Be OBEDIENT to those who are taking the lead among you and be SUBMISSIVE" Heb 13:17. 

[HollyW]

 

3 hours ago, bruceq said:

  Human standards and practices are always inferior to Jehovah's standards. God's Word endures forever the countries laws that you may follow do not. Jesus said to eat his flesh and blood, but the LAW said that was wrong. Would you obey Jesus and be submissive even if you do not understand the reason for it?

"All Scripture is inspired of God+and beneficial for teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,+ ¹⁷  so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16.

Be OBEDIENT to those who are taking the lead among you and be SUBMISSIVE" Heb 13:17. 

I can hardly believe a JW would say this about child abuse, not to mention using as an example partaking of Jesus' body and blood, a command the majority of JWs disobey anyway: "Take eat, this is my body.  Drink...this is my blood of the covenant."

Your point being that a law requiring child abuse be reported to law enforcement goes against Jehovah's standards that there has to be two witnesses (other than the victim and the abuser).  Talk about straining at a gnat.

[bruceq]

    OBEY the Word of God: { WE MUST OBEY GOD AS RULER RATHER THAN MEN}. But some apostates would rather follow men or themselves who are governed by fleshly veiwpoints.

   "I know that after my going away OPPRESSIVE wolves will enter in among you+ and will not TREAT the flock with tenderness, ³⁰  and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak TWISTED  things to draw away the disciples AFTER THEMSELVES". Acts 20:29,30

   "ALL Scripture is inspired of God+and beneficial for teaching,+ for reproving, for SETTING THINGS STRAIGHT,* for disciplining in righteousness,+ ¹⁷  so that the man of God may be fully competent, COMPLETELY EQUIPPED for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16.

   Be OBEDIENT to those who are taking the lead among you and be SUBMISSIVE" Heb 13:17. 

 " Do EVERYTHING without COMPLAINING and ARGUING", Phil 2:14 

[Shiwiii]

On 6/12/2017 at 5:38 PM, bruceq said:

But some apostates would rather follow men or themselves who are governed by fleshly veiwpoints.

are you calling those who followed the wt legal team by not reporting the abuse, apostates? I agree. 

 

Also, on a side note........why you up vote your own posts? 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 3/18/2017 at 14:36, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

where trials were held in the city gates for all those inside the city and outside the city to be able to see with their own eyes how Justice was administered.

James has highlighted very important text that GB not obey. If they using "two witness" rule from old and new testament as "principle" for congregational judicial procedure, than that must be in front all congregation. They "pick", what they wish, from bible reports and then doing as they like it.

Completely another is about  Matthew 18:15-17. Here is not about a witness of sin, crime who will support allegation. Here is about witness that you bring to another person with whom you have problem, and this one or two witness will be witness/ess of your words and approach to bro or sis, witness/ess of your conversation about something. NOT a witness on words or deeds of the accused, the suspect that make you endangered, offended, upset, BUT witness/ess of YOUR response to something that made you worry.