Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

If memory serves

It doesn’t.

27 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

The politically motivated one was a complete failure.

There was no politically motivated one. There were letters written by persons to persons, not ‘to whom it may concerns.’ If the heart is not reached, still a witness is given, not merely to them, but to anyone privy to the chain anywhere in the world, even the postmaster in Ghana or the media outlet there that comes to hear of it. 

27 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

The personal one to the imprisoned Brothers a complete success.

Do you think participation in this would have increased as a consequence of participating in the greater letter-writing program?

[Pudgy]

I think this is all a diversion from the REAL question originally asked, and never answered by the guy that resurrected it from 2017.

Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

the REAL question

Expressed sentiment is alway better than unexpressed sentiment. Why would you be so contemptuous of a project that so emphasized solidarity to our Russian brothers, with every Witness in the world weighing in?

[Pudgy]

Of course not, but that WOULD HAVE been an unintended consequence other than the clearly stated goal of the project, which was to influence the Russian Government to stop the persecution of the Brotherhood.

It’s sorta like renaming the goals and moving the goal posts AFTER the footballl game is lost to the other team, and declaring that your efforts were a success, because you sold a lo of hot dogs and beer. 

[Pudgy]

If you are piloting a sailboat to Australia from the United States, and you drown, the goal was to get to Australia, not serve as a shining example of the courage of man..

[TrueTomHarley]

19 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

If you are piloting a sailboat to Australia from the United States,

Do you think Ecclesiastes 11:6:

”Sow your seed in the morning and do not let your hand rest until the evening; for you do not know which will have success,”

should be changed to read ‘patiently sit on your hands until you do know?’

[Pudgy]

….. better to row towards shore.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

….. better to row towards shore.

“Now as he was traveling and getting near Moscow, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, illuminating 48 million letters, most of which he had already read but had not taken seriously. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: ‘Vladimir, Vladimir, why are you persecuting me?;”

No, it doesn’t seem very likely. But then, it didn’t seem likely with Paul either. You never know.

In the meantime, a massive worldwide witness is given, the brotherhood is galvanized anew into unity, and the Russian brothers in particular are fortified knowing that every Witness in the world gave testimony to the injustice they face.

“And you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.” (Matthew 10:18

The witness Jesus speaks of does not result in those Christians escaping persecution. Subsequent verses (21-22) pretty much guarantee they will not: 

“Further, brother will hand brother over to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved.”

It’s always worth a shot to try to avert injustice in any given place, but the Bible makes clear persecution of those representing God’s kingdom will be a given. The important thing, if it is to happen and the scriptures say it will, is that it be publicized far and wide, in order to reach hearts, so that Paul may say, “For a fact, the king to whom I am speaking so freely well knows about these things; I am convinced that not one of these things escapes his notice, for none of this has been done in a corner. Do you, King A·gripʹpa, believe the Prophets? I know that you believe.”  

“A·gripʹpa said to Paul: “In a short time you would persuade me to become a Christian.”

Paul himself in his answer acknowledges persecution as a given. It’s part of the package: “At this Paul said: “I wish to God that whether in a short time or in a long time, not only you but also all those who hear me today would become men such as I am, with the exception of these prison bonds.” (Acts 26:26-29)

Why are you so hostile to this work? A massive witness was given the world over. Christians in this system of things will never win the battle of might. It is the battle over hearts that is being waged, and the more publicity unjust persecution receives, the better.

 

[Pudgy]

I am not hostile to what was done, or any side effects that were incidental, correctly labeled.
 

I WOULD however, like to read the original un-edited Russian Court transcripts in English.…… something tangible.  I think it is INCREDIBLY important not to base one’s understanding of those events on third-hand agenda driven very abbreviated summaries.

As far as a massive witness given the world over about this ….. the legal and political battle was fought with “the army they had” …. and they lost, miserably.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I am not hostile to what was done, or any side effects that were incidental, correctly labeled.
 

I WOULD however, like to read the original un-edited Russian Court transcripts in English.…… something tangible.  I think it is INCREDIBLY important not to base one’s understanding of those events on third-hand agenda driven very abbreviated summaries.

It’s Russia. Are they even available? If it was the US, doubtless you could find a public record of it somewhere. But this is Russia.

21 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

Why don’t you write and ask them? I’ve never heard anyone but you express any desire to see them. The brothers are found guilty. I think to the person, they proclaim their innocence to the end. What more is there to know? Do you think they actually do terrorize like ISIS? Typical is this latest statement upon conviction of some as related by the Moscow Times:

“Jehovah's Witnesses are peaceful, politically neutral people,” said Valery Rogozin, 59, in his last words in court. “We learned from the Bible that only God can deal with all of humanity's problems.”

Other defendants echoed his statement, with Melnik, 49, saying “I have tried to do good, to show love and justice, to take care of people” and Peresunko, 43, noting “I am being judged because I learned the truth that is in the Bible and discussed it with my friends.”

“The whole world says that Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be extremists, that they are pacifists, that they do not take up arms and never speak against the state, they do not interfere in politics,” said Yegozarian, 56.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/09/24/russia-sentences-4-jehovahs-witnesses-to-long-jail-terms-a75133

If our organization didn’t publish the complete transcript, neither did the Moscow Times. I’m not sure why you think it so incredibly important to see the transcript. Do you think you will catch and shame the Russian prosecution in some lies? Do you think you will catch and shame the brothers in some lies? I really don’t know where you are coming from. But you could write and ask.

Meanwhile the closest you may be able to get to seeing a transcript might be in the book I Don’t Know Why We Persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses: Searching for the Why, written by (blush) me. Within are complete tweet summaries from Chivchalov at 5 minute intervals of the trial to ban the organization, the trial to ban the New World Translation, and the trial to confiscate the branch buildings.

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Pudgy said:

….. the legal and political battle was fought with “the army they had” …. and they lost, miserably.

I think what you’re looking for is a Rambo religion where members blow away all opposition with firearms until at the very end they are overpowered David Koresh style.

Instead you’re stuck in a religion where the pattern is pretty much the opposite. They take it on the chin and suffer persecution,  being hated by the world, until the Lord overturns all at the last day.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Pudgy said:

As far as a massive witness given the world over about this ….. the legal and political battle was fought with “the army they had” …. and they lost, miserably.

Perhaps the outcome of all this "persecution thing" depended on “God’s will,” and little or nothing at all on the efforts of JW lawyers, prayer, and letters. Or yet, nothing depended on “God’s will,” because he “allows” things to happen.

So, the real answer does not exist to, why JWs in Russia suffer, if they are not extremists. That is, all the answers to the question of "why", are correct. It depends on the position of the observer who comment.

On the other hand, the answer to, why there are no transcripts on the JWorg official site is not elusive. It’s not “spiritual food at the right time,” so why would it be on the “spiritual table” prepared by GB.