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Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?


James Thomas Rook Jr.
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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I certainly do NOT represent the "Organization"

Thank you for clarifying this fact.

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

So, you tell ME what part of that news is "Fake News"

I did not share that report.  There is only the assertion it contains: "The man, who was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses," that catches my eye.

I would look for some corroboration or clarity as to relevance of this statement. It seems to be as unconnected to the details of the report as the man's shoe or hat size as it stands.

However, as you have stated, this is a mis-posting of material so I will leave the discussion. Treat this response as a return of courtesy. :)

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I see we have a few feminists here.  If you investigate where feminism comes from you will not be so eager to promote this way of thinking!  Any case I am female and I am very happy in the congregation.  Sisters have a wonderful opportunity to spread LOVE, look after the sick, preach, look after their husbands and children in a godly way and use their wisdom to advise the young sisters and accomplish much good in the congregation!  One can support the young ministerial servants and jus

Sorry   I don't care to argue with apostates who use the same type of questioning that Satan used. The "Ministry of Justice is now being influenced by Dvorkin and other anti-cultist apostates and the trial clearly showed now for the world to see that they, all anti-cultist apostates, are all liars and have baseless claims. 

Thank you. That ought to put a muzzle on the crazed mutt once and for all. Alas, I doubt it will.

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Arauna:

Thank you for that fine and accurate analysis of the reporting and theocratic and secular responses, now and over the years..

I agree with each and every word, except the last sentence, which subject  I have covered elsewhere using the example of the man who stole a truck during last weeks Las Vegas massacre, who, if he had been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he would be convicted in ecclesiastical court as an unrepentant sinner, because he could never repent from having stolen that truck ... to take wounded and dying to the hospital, and his "extenuating circumstances" would not be considered. 

1.)   HE STOLE A TRUCK.   GUILTY BY HIS OWN CONFESSION.

2.)  HE WILL NEVER BE REPENTANT

I have seen this sort of reasoning used in actual practice .... where policy overcomes rational justice.

Like the young girl who, walking along a beach covered with stranded starfish,  threw a starfish back into the ocean ... in the grand scheme of things it matters little, but it does matter to that particular starfish.

To elaborate about Justice .... we both know that real Justice you only get from Jehovah God ... all else is just local due process which sometimes, perhaps even most of the time, approximates Justice.

The reason we have a trained conscience is to individually make those decisions.  Otherwise we do not need one at all ... institutional policy controls everything. 

I am sure you have read more than enough of my rants about that.

I agree with "Pastor Russell" that INSTITUTIONALLY, this is the wrong thing to do, as in actual practice it leads to witch hunts, punishment by personality, and destruction of family and extended family ties to punish one person. 

This is not Justice, this is cruel, unusual, and "theocratically" illegal ... and it has a great chilling effect, and turns families against each other unnecessarily. Adopting the methods of the old Soviet Union is not conducive to Justice, or reason, or mercy.

And... because we are dealing with humans from every background and walk of life, and education, experiences, and biases both at the "management" level, and the "employee" level, ( GB to average publisher level), as in EVERY political, social and religious organization that has ever existed, the power base tends to do whatever is necessary to insure it stays in power.

One particular problem I see is that there is no one on Earth to fire the Governing Body when THEY  do whatever is necessary to insure they stay in power, including they themselves being governed by the need to keep the money rolling in through illegal "theocratic" intimidation, making the usual mistakes, but destroying whole families as they go.

From my observations, the "Emperor has no clothes", while the city insists he is finely dressed, and have convinced themselves of that. 

I am convinced otherwise.

I agree with shunning on an individual basis for unrepentant sinners without mitigating and  extenuating (and unusual) circumstances.

I do NOT agree with institutionally destroying their whole families.

That is why these discussions, like between you and I, as rational humans, are essential.

I only shoot the "Green Dragons" in the head if they chew on me or the Brotherhood, first.

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Nothing is perfect in this system, so one cannot assume that everything will be perfect in the congregation either.  This is why Jesus said we must forgive and be prepared to be hurt sometimes.... and still forgive.  To give for the sake of giving and expect nothing in return. To give cooperation as far as possible is important because anyone can (at times) abuse their power. 

A child who is difficult at home has power over the entire family and can make life hard.  Similar to a wife who does not cooperate with her husband is abusing the power she has over him. We can go beyond our power in the congregation too and overstep subtle lines we are not supposed to - especially if one  feels entitled for some reason or other.

In a group situation difficult behavior is a bit harder to maintain without censure all around because one will find that people will avoid you, especially if one is subtly critical or offensive. Even though we are supposed to forgive and forget one will find that in practice it is hard for people to deliberately walk into "trouble" if they know that they will not be able to respond to overbearing or critical remarks. Many people are not equipped for this dynamic. 

I can usually deal with this and I like to sound my new ideas off others but there are days when I will avoid someone who is always a sour ass.  There was one woman in my previous group whom had been a diabetic for many years and she was known to everyone to be rude.  We put up with her..... but it was by sheer kindness and a determination to be so.  My heart used to sink when she was assigned to work with me. Most of my encounters with her were not pleasant to say the least and I was so glad when it was over and I had left her presence on a pleasant footing.  Every encounter was a painful time to not say anything she could take up in the wrong way.  She was a kind of a tyrant. So, yea, these are the realities we deal with. I also knew that her disease together with a spoilt/privileged upbringing was the reason for this. She was an unhappy individual and this helped me to feel pity for her at times.

I have met some of the governing body and they are just people - very busy and not pandering to popular appeal - which I think is good!  However, I do not agree with you that they are lovers of power.  I agree with you that one may find an individual in a congregation who may love rules because one can enforce rules and get a sense of power from it. But this is a weakness - not a strength! This type of person will take a guideline and make a rule out of it...... to feel righteous by keeping the rule.  If you fall victim to this - bear with it until Jehovah sorts it out.   I have often seen this type of problem sorted out but it needs trust in Jehovah and not a personal rebellion or intervention.  This is a recipe for disaster to yourself if you do not have patience. 

So one can seal your own lot as a negative person if one does not work hard to put on the "new personality."   To put on the new personality does not mean that we may not think and have a sharp brain regarding philosophy, or other forms of knowledge. It means that we will have wisdom as to when we use this information and how we use it and when and how we express it.

I love to speak to atheists and use most of the knowledge I have accumulated to use in the field. Or I bounce it off those brothers/sisters who can deal with my type of information without a critical view.  Some kinds of people just cannot handle some kinds of information!  They will judge you - so learn to distinguish who to speak to about things.  I have also learnt the skill to present new information in a palatable way - which helps in my work in the field.

By the way - I am not saying here - be like me.  I am just saying we all learn all the time and some of us do not have the most conformist of personalities.  So we have to learn to be adaptable.  You have a critical personality.  I can see from your comments.  Although you like to present yourself as rational - there are times when I think you are out of whack! or downright  severed from reality.  

But if you want to come closer to Jehovah - you have to apply yourself to put on the new personality - as we learn over this weekend in the Watchtower study.  I know it is hard to navigate this world and some of us have non-conformist type of personalities....... but one has to pummel your body to do so.  Those who do not stumble by correction will receive the crown of life.  

By the way - I have a family member who is dis-fellowshipped and has made no effort to come back.   I send him money because he has run into problems.  But I restrict communication with him because it is requested by John (under direction of Holy Spirit) to do so. "Do not greet or eat with anyone who brings these false teachings. "   Hence - it is a matter of being obedient to God or to be your own God to decide what to do.   It is only rebellious people or unrepentant ones who are dis-fellowshipped.  The problem is not with Jehovah's instruction - the problem is with them!   If he shows humility and comes back and shows a spirit to try to improve  - then he will be a good association again. Most who do not come back have a problem with pride! or are self-willed. 

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Of course MOST people think they are the meekest MOST humblest people on earth.  We just love to bluff ourselves to get out of facing reality.  As James said - we look in the mirror and then look away and forget what we saw.  Maybe we just give up too soon!

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 If they remain clean and without defilement they are OK.  Any subversive behavior, and other elders will look into it. ... and he/them may get "fired".   I have read stories on this forum how people were let go from Bethel.  No-one is above this.... and if they take too long to act..... Jehovah will!   Read the letters to the seven congregations in book of Revelation.  Jehovah and Jesus are watching everything..... Yes He is slow to anger - so trust HIM that he will sort things (if it is needed ) at the right time.  Of course he is not hypercritical as some people are - he remembers that we are flesh.  Some brothers are hypercritical when things are not done in the way they suggest.

Too much fleshly thinking out here..... People do not trust Jehovah.  I have lived a long life in the truth and I have seen oppressive brothers and how they were given time to change..... but in the end Jehovah maneuvered things so cliques were destroyed.  As long as you just do what is right and not contribute with your death-dealing mouth to breaking down other people's faith!  Things sort themselves out without our own "important" views of when and how things should be managed.

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14 hours ago, Arauna said:

put on the new personality - as we learn over this weekend in the Watchtower study. 

It is the first series of Watchtower pictures I have ever seen in which a person starts well-dressed, finishes less so, and the result is used to illustrate an improvement.

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I guess the suit is just representative of what has to be taken off; but point taken. They could easily have found a picture with clothing also representing the new personality of a more respectable nature. Or start with home clothes and finish with more elegant home clothes.

Things like "none are perfect" creeping in too. But to err is human.

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    • misette  »  Gilles h

      Bonsoir Gilles
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    • Eric Ouellet

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    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouissent.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouiss.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


    • Shirley Lowery

      Hello to all my Spiritual Brothers and Sisters! I haven't been on here in a while, because as of August 17, 2021, I moved to Commerce, Texas! I was on the Commerce Housing Authority Waiting list since 2019!  I was selected to receive my one bedroom apartment, with my Chihuahua, with my precious Babyboy, who is now 16 years old! and I signed my lease on August 5, 2021, and had my gas turned on! We have a very small Congregation of 71 publishers, including me!  I haven't been to our beautiful Kingdomhall yet, but I did take some photos of the outside of it! I'm praying that we are one of the Congregations, chosen to start attending in person, our pilot meetings that many countries are now attending! Puerto Rico, Chile, and Australia are a few chosen right now! There's three Shirley's in my Congregation!  Two elderly sisters, one is white, she's No.1 , and another  elderly sister who is black, she's No.2, and I'm ShirleyL3!  One sister lovingly named me that! I feel special now! I haven't been given an assignment yet, but soon I will!  I really enjoyed our "POWERFUL by FAITH" Regional Convention so much!  We needed all the Spiritual Encouragement which focused on all of us! Also, all those beautiful videos, and the real life experiences! July 29, 1972, was my baptism date! 49 years now, serving Jehovah! I was 15 when I dedicated my life to serve Jehovah! I'm 64 years young now, and still faithfully serving Jehovah! I do telephone witnessing now! Which lots of people hang up on me, but I'm used to it now! All that matters is that I'm giving Jehovah my best!  I'm so excited about our Special Campaign now!  Only Jehovah reads hearts!  Hopefully lots of people will show some interest!  This year 2021 is almost over! I received both doses of Moderna, and have to wait till I turn 65 in May, to receive my Booster shot! We lost over 17, 000 brothers and sisters to Covid-19! My prayers are with them and their families! Soon, as Jehovah has promised, they will welcome their loved ones back in their lives, during the resurrection! I love it here so much, everyone is very friendly! I just love my Congregation too! I hope everyone makes their personal decision to get vaccinated! Also I hope everyone has a great rest of 2021! Let's see what Jehovah has in store for us in 2022! Were having our Circuit Assembly on November 27, 2021!  Take care of yourselves, be safe, and always trust in Jehovah!!!  Have a great weekend everybody, agape love, Sister Shirley Ann Lowery! 
      · 1 reply
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