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Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?


James Thomas Rook Jr.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and the result is used to illustrate an improvement.

C'mon Tom!!

This picture (and the study) is mainly about stripping off the old personality. Doing that isn't enough to make you "well-dressed" in Jehovah's eyes is it?

Next week is about putting on the new personality and the picture then indicates this process. (Might even be the same model in the first shot).

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53 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

C'mon Tom!

You have misunderstood my comment and it is my fault for not being more clear. 

If it was up to me, we would drop our emphasis on always being so immaculate in appearance. Just last week a householder gave me what he thought was a helpful tip that if we didn't dress to the nines routinely, our message would better resonate with the average Joe. 

When in the ministry, I dress as casually as I can without triggering alarms, for a full suit with shined shoes fails to do it with the average householder, IMO.. Having dressed down just a bit, I am content,. On a few beastly hot evenings last year,  I dispensed with a tie altogether in the ministry. 'Let them come out themselves and stop me,' I told myself.

I admit the overall picture is not going my way - it is just one of those things to adjust to and keep in perspective  - because I see fully attired brothers on the website trekking through the wilds where anyone else would don safari gear. This is only minor grousing - don't take it as anything more. I realize that it is a matter of showing respect and that you'd don't go slumming with the Lord. We just overdo it sometimes. To the extent formal dress is almost exclusively the realm of the political, legal and business worlds, I even think it feeds the perception of JWs being "corporate." @adminhimself would agree. 

I'd be happy if there was no correlation at all between photos of dress and lessons about Christian conduct.

 

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15 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have met some of the governing body and they are just people - very busy and not pandering to popular appeal - which I think is good!  However, I do not agree with you that they are lovers of power.

A wolf in sheep’s clothing doesn’t appear as a wolf, but appears as a sheep.  Matt.24:24-25; Rev.13:10; Luke21:24; Col.2:8

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is only rebellious people or unrepentant ones who are dis-fellowshipped.

Does a person have to repent for rejecting a lie? Or should repentance come from the organization and its leaders, who rejects the person for their integrity to truth?

 “For am I now trying to persuade people, or God? Or am I striving to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.”  Gal 1:10

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

But if you want to come closer to Jehovah - you have to apply yourself to put on the new personality - as we learn over this weekend in the Watchtower study.  I know it is hard to navigate this world and some of us have non-conformist type of personalities....... but one has to pummel your body to do so.  Those who do not stumble by correction will receive the crown of life.  

This is done by leaving men who “bind” another’s conscience, and allowing only God and Christ to do so, bearing only one mark that directs our thinking. The source of ‘pummeling’ in the organization comes from men, their doctrine and demand for servitude.  (Rev 13:16,17;14:9-12)

 Deut 11:18  "You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be bound on your forehead." ( Ps.119:165; Col.3:15)

“So I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air.”  1 Cor 9:26  Truth is what brings discipline to the body, mind and soul.  If an exhausted, enlightened JW becomes weary of men continually admonishing them to “keep running” with the organization, to fight on a battleground that makes no headway in drawing one closer to God, are they to blame for turning directly to the Father and Christ?  Luke 16:15

 “For you, being so wise, gladly put up with fools!  In fact, you put up with it if someone enslaves you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone is arrogant toward you, if someone slaps you in the face.”  2 Cor 11:19,10

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

The problem is not with Jehovah's instruction - the problem is with them!  

God never said to tolerate men who teach lies, that is his instruction.  The problem is with the wolf in sheep’s clothing.  Jer 23:32; 5:30,31; 29:8; Isa 28:7-10; 2 Thess 2:9-12

The organization has directed individuals to seek it as their Master to lead them; with many “masters” within it.  This is exactly the opposite of God’s direction through his Son.  Matt 6:24; 1 Thess 2:4-6; Rev 13:16   How does the organization get by with convincing millions to “serve” it?  By saying it is “spirit-directed”, a gradual change from ‘no organization necessary’ to ‘you can’t live without it’ – an image conjured up as salvation.  Rev 13:15; 16:13,14

Both anointed and those not anointed are disfellowshipped for rejecting it’s “headship”. 1 Tim 2:5 They are not the ones who are at fault with God for doing so.  Rev 19:20; Rev.8:10-11; 2:5; 13:7,11

 

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16 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You have misunderstood my comment and it is my fault for not being more clear. 

Fair enough. But I am not talking about your personal dress code preferences. I am talking about this:

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the first series of Watchtower pictures I have ever seen in which a person starts well-dressed, finishes less so, and the result is used to illustrate an improvement.

The illustration here  is about quick action to discard a soiled garment regardless of being engaged in other activity. How much more should we be quick to discard those traits that contribute to  "spiritual soiling" whenever we become aware of them?

There was also a particular focus on what Christians do when they are not in public view or in a formal setting. The later pictures in the article show someone similarly dressed down (and with 3 different outfits it appears) although it is illustrating how to successfully strip off the old personaility. There is nothing unusual, innapropriate, or innovative about Christians in casual clothes when not in the ministry or at meetings. But there is no place for a casual attitude to Christian qualites or aspects of the new personality when out of the "public eye".

This has nothing to do with Russian transcripts, so why not get a new thread started as the topic of appropriate ministry dress is an interesting one.

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

A wolf in sheep’s clothing doesn’t appear as a wolf, but appears as a sheep.  Matt.24:24-25; Rev.13:10; Luke21:24; Col.2:8

Seems you are full of judgment my dear!... and without proof too!  It is a banket statement - condemning ALL of them in one swoop. Tut-tut.  Does the Bible not say that those who judge have put themselves in Gods place?

James 4:11-12King James Version (KJV)

11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Does a person have to repent for rejecting a lie? Or should repentance come from the organization and its leaders, who rejects the person for their integrity to truth?

I suspect - if you were innocent - your attitude was not mild - you went down with a fight did you not?  So why not acknowledge your bad attitude and start over with a more humble spirit?  I have done it myself - justified my actions and declared myself self-righteous.. just like Job.

James 3:

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

How does the organization get by with convincing millions to “serve” it?  By saying it is “spirit-directed”,

JWs serve Jehovah but we acknowledge that Jehovah is directing his organization and making sure that the preaching work is now done earth wide.  Mat 24:14 is a prophecy that only JWs are fulfilling earth-wide in the time of the end.  This is a prophecy about the time of the end is it not?

No other organization even understands what the kingdom government is.  They do not even believe that it has started ruling in the heavens....invisibly.  They still believe that all are going to heaven and the wicked will burn forever in a hell?   Do you want to join those people ? Or be  associated with Jehovah's people and show a more humble spirit. 

Who appointed you as the slave?  You must be able to identify the slave because the bible asks: "Who is the slave?"  matt 24:14

Do you feel you understand the Truth better than they do?  have you understood on your own that there is no hell?  Did you understand on your own that Jesus poured out his "soul" in death for three days and was resurrected by Jehovah? The Bible shows that the one that does not accept that Jesus came in the flesh is the anti-Christ.... iJohn 1:2

I think you should re-think your position and realize you are in dangerous waters.  Yes, the shepherds are imperfect people like everyone else -  just like Moses - who also had weaknesses.  Do you remember how Korah lead a rebellion against Moses and said to him that he thinks too much of himself and Jehovah is not using him?   Did Jehovah not take Korah and his followers out - even thought they professed to be servants of the true god Jehovah - But their attitude was haughty and rebellious?

We do respect our shepherds because Jehovah is using them - but the only one we worship is Jehovah through his son, Jesus Christ.

If you read Genesis you will find that Jehovah warned Cain of his attitude and told him that he must become a master over it.... He did not and became a murderer...... therefore watch what you say...

Jesus watched his words when speaking to satan: Jude 9-10King James Version (KJV)

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

If we cooperate with our shepherds we are making their job easy - it does not mean that we worship them.  We also accept that they keep the congregation clean from corrupting influences  because this is the job that Jehovah gave them. 

Hebrews 13:17King James Version (KJV)

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

Maybe you have a problem with authority?  It is time to scrutinize yourself....

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

This has nothing to do with Russian transcripts, so why not get a new thread started as the topic of appropriate ministry dress is an interesting one.

It is true, but that is the extent of my rebellion - right here on the World Forum - home of wayward Witnesses and a few good blokes. I wouldn't try to spin an entire thread out of it.

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Depends on your goal with this forum. If the subject is not a good one - people will wander quicker off track... and like any discussion at a table where people sit around a cup of coffee things jump around.... unless one wants to keep it formal like a newspaper.

Since we are supposed to encourage one another, personal feelings together with ideas (right or wrong) will also become part of the discussion and these will need to be addressed. 

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7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Does the Bible not say that those who judge have put themselves in Gods place?

That would be the GB who has authorized the elder body to disfellowship (labeling someone as spiritually dead)  anointed ones and others, for rejecting lies, and for realizing  Christ is our only Head.  Matt 5:11; John 16:2; Rev 13:15; Rev 12:11

You may apply your scriptures to the leaders of the organization, unless you feel they are exempt from judgment.   Matt 20:25-28; 1 John 3:11,12,15; Isa 66:5; Matt 23:34  No slave of Christ should lord it over anyone, but the GB does, to a significant degree. 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

I suspect - if you were innocent - your attitude was not mild - you went down with a fight did you not? 

 I would never “fight” to remain in the organization that silences God’s anointed ones by expecting them to obey someone other than Christ.  I would never “fight” to remain in an environment where a “wicked slave” governs over the anointed ones. Matt 24:48-51  I would never “fight” to support an idol, the organization that requires one to “identify” with it – be “marked” as part of it,  Rev 13:16,  where the “buying and selling” of spiritual food is regulated by this idolatrous image. Rev 13:17  

But I would expose the lies that speak against my Lord and Master.    2 Cor 10:4-6; Mark 8:38; Matt 7:15-20

 To the four elders who decided I must be disfellowshipped for rejecting the lie of 1914 and for accepting Christ as my only Head, I told them, “don’t worry, it’s all okay”.  It’s all okay because I have finally been able to reach God and Christ personally, not through men.  John 4:21-24  After telling me I would be disfellowshipped for “apostasy”, they said, rather stupidly, if you repent you are welcome back.  I calmly told them I was not going back. 

I give you the benefit of the doubt.  You don’t know me.  ?

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Who appointed you as the slave?  You must be able to identify the slave because the bible asks: "Who is the slave?"  matt 24:14

Do you remember when every anointed one was considered a “faithful and discreet slave” (which actually is Jesus’ decision upon his return Matt 25:23)?  That connotation now only applies to 7 self-appointed men, (new doctrine) men who now silence the anointed ones, seeking their own prominence and power (yes!)  while enforcing their lies.  By doing this, they have fulfilled the identity of the “wicked slave”.  Matt 24:48-51

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Mat 24:14 is a prophecy that only JWs are fulfilling earth-wide in the time of the end.  This is a prophecy about the time of the end is it not?

Yes, it is a prophecy about the time of the end, but read Matt 10:23 and see who it is to receive the “good news”, not being preached to by the organization.  The true “preaching” is to God’s wayward nation of spiritual “Israel” (the anointed ones), exposing the delusion, the man of lawlessness, that was to occur during the last days.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,18  Was Jesus speaking of the entire globe in Matt 24:14?  Look at Rom 10:18; 1:8; Acts 17:6; Col 1:6, 23; 1 Thess 1:8.  Do you believe the entire world at that time was preached to, or was it to God’s nation?  1 Pet 5:10; Rev 3:10 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

We do respect our shepherds because Jehovah is using them

 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

I think you should re-think your position and realize you are in dangerous waters.  Yes, the shepherds are imperfect people like everyone else -  just like Moses - who also had weaknesses.  Do you remember how Korah lead a rebellion against Moses and said to him that he thinks too much of himself and Jehovah is not using him?   Did Jehovah not take Korah and his followers out - even thought they professed to be servants of the true god Jehovah - But their attitude was haughty and rebellious?

This is my view from October 3rd under Controversial Posts, Anointed Ones and JW .org.  It concerns the account of Korah and just who are the appropriate shepherds for God’s people. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/32169-anointed-ones-and-jworg/?tab=comments#comment-68682

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

but the only one we worship is Jehovah through his son, Jesus Christ.

Ask yourself, can you worship God without the organization?   2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:4

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Maybe you have a problem with authority?

I recognize the authority of Christ as Head of the anointed Body of Christ.  God has a problem with those who have usurped his Son’s position, and his "Temple" members;  in fact he calls it a “disgusting thing”. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

 The anointed priesthood has been “trampled” by the elder body, a false priesthood.  If anyone recognizes spiritual “Gentiles” standing in the “holy place” they are to FLEE.  Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:15,16

“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp (“camp of Israel”) of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 

Well, the anointed “camp” are surrounded, held captive to a “wicked slave”.  The threat of “death” hangs over them, if they choose to serve only one Master, Christ. The remaining ones of the woman’s seed must face this refinement before being sealed into the “heavens” – based on their love of lies, or of truth. Mal 3:1-3; Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:1-4; Rev 12:17; Matt 24:24,27

The symbolic “thousand years” are over.  Satan has been let loose to deceive the holy ones. You can see my thoughts on this as well as another anointed one who has been blessed with great insight -  here:

Dated Friday - https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/32169-anointed-ones-and-jworg/?tab=comments#comment-70086

 

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The way I understand the "Thread Rules" is that if the person who STARTED the thread wants it to stay pristine, then it is inappropriate to violate those wishes and wander afield with comments. Also,  we did experiment with making things "formal" but it was very cumbersome, so the Librarian agreed that it could be a 'free for all mud fight" and if necessary, he or JWI, who have administrator status, would split the tangled thread and move parts to new headers, as needed.

Since I started this thread, apparently I get to indicate my preferences ... and as most know, I LIKE a free association, who knows where the conversation goes, from your nose to your toes kinda brawl.

I am not sensitive, and take no offense, even if deliberate and malicious, under the working theory that vitriol is YOUR problem, and watching you have a stroke is entertaining, and the Librarian and many here know this.

So, carry on troops, and follow IDEAS, wherever they might go!

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16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the first series of Watchtower pictures I have ever seen in which a person starts well-dressed, finishes less so, and the result is used to illustrate an improvement.

Actually he has a pretty fit body, as I remarked to my husband, much to his amusement

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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is such a thing as modesty and so I rarely spill. But for some time I have been the model for photos such as this.

Well THH, you have the natural physical advantage .... no one else in the world knows how to get a wireless Bluetooth WIFI garden hose sprinkler nozzle to work.

 

True TomHarley   400   .jpg

TTH Sprinkler Nozzle   600   .jpg

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