What gives them the right to insert YHWH so that the the scriptures are manipulated to suit the their doctrine?

[Micah Ong]

@Bible SpeaksSo why use different letters JHWH then, with guessed vowel letters. 

[Micah Ong]

Hey everyone thanks for the discussion but I am going to have to agree to disagree on our views regarding the Bible and it's message.  Thanks for sharing your views.  The Librarian has said this post is now enormous lol 

I wish each and all of you the best with your personal relationship with our Heavenly Father!  May his warmth and love rise above our differing views and affect the way we see each other.

Christian love

Micah

P.S I am sorry for any angst caused

[bruceq]

28 minutes ago, Micah Ong said:

Well thanks for pointing this out as I hadn't read this properly to convey the point I was making. 

But no other Angel has been described as being equal to God as Philippians 2:6 says and no Angel is the creator of all things as Jesus is Everything was created through him and for him and by him.  He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together.

The Son is an individualized portion of God who has attained a perfect oneness with God

 

 

   Unfortunately many Trinitarians also take the Scriptures out of their context because the Trinity is not there. Since the Bible was written by Jews and those writers did not believe in a Trinity is the reason you and they cannot find the Trinity there.

   As for your other comments you already know angels have been called God even "Almighty God" Num 24:4, 16. see 22:31 also. Why?  Because they represent and speak for God as a spokesman. So of course Jesus can be called God just as other angels have. That is why he is "the WORD OF God". And of course the "WORD is God" just as angels are as shown above. Jn 1:1

[Micah Ong]

Yes thank you, I sincerely agree with you now.  Jesus is a separate being to to the Father.  That's how the scriptures read.  I'm enjoying the learning process though

 

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

According to researchers of the Jewish culture, the human gene would have the signature of the name of God, with the 4 letters of the Tetragrammaton.(Yod) ה (heh) ו (vav) ה (heh), Tetragrammaton .....Hey vau, = 5 = 6, beats = 5;10 + 5 + 6 + 5

@Bible Speaks

What is this?

[bruceq]

6 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

Yes thank you, I sincerely agree with you now.  Jesus is a separate being to to the Father.  That's how the scriptures read.  I'm enjoying the learning process though

 

    Yes it is enjoyable to learn the truth. We just have to make sure that when it comes to truth that we do not get our info from a biased source. It seems that some things you have pasted were from people or groups who are very negative to Jehovah's Witnesses. If you had lived in the First Century would you ask the Jews who were responsible for killing Jesus and who hated his followers for info on the Christians? Of course not you would ask the Christians not some other group. If you want to know about Catholics then ask a Catholic. Same with any other group or religion especially since the true religion would be hated everywhere. Notice the principle of this Scripture :"But we think it proper to HEAR FROM YOU what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect, we know that it is SPOKEN AGAINST everywhere." Acts 28:22. 

   Jehovah's Witnesses are "spoken against everywhere". A religion that is NOT "orthodox" according to the majority would be considered a "cult" or "sect" obviously a derogatory term as noted in this Scripture. Satan is "misleading the ENTIRE inhabited earth"{ Rev. 12:9} so the vast majority of religions would be mislead as well not just a small minority religion. Since the Trinity is the "central doctrine" of Christendom and the majority are being mislead then logic dictates that perhaps many other teachings of Christendom are also false. So please keep searching and if you have questions then ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses in person if you can as well as visit their website. May Jehovah be with your search for Truth. 

{And please remember that this is the Internet and not everyone here is a faithful and loyal Witness or faithful and loyal at all even if they pretend to be, that is why it is good to seek out the Witnesses in your own area where you live and not rely on bloggers for the right perspectives.}

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

Hey everyone thanks for the discussion but I am going to have to agree to disagree on our views regarding the Bible and it's message.  Thanks for sharing your views.  The Librarian has said this post is now enormous lol 

I wish each and all of you the best with your personal relationship with our Heavenly Father!  May his warmth and love rise above our differing views and affect the way we see each other.

Christian love

Micah

P.S I am sorry for any angst caused

You can always start another thread if one gets enormous.

I doubt you caused any real angst for anyone. Anyone who shares an internet forum or even responds to a youtube video will be well prepared for just about anything. I had hoped you would share what caused you to make such a big decision about religion recently.

I've seen several who decide to leave the Witnesses and not to come back. They take various paths, often immersing themselves in a lot of study and research to be sure they made the right decision. Sometimes, depending on their motives, they are able to offer something valuable in a kind of "exit interview." I think people would be surprised at all the things that were changed for the better, specifically because an "infamous GB apostate" once decided to write a book about his experiences.

So if you have any constructive criticism, I think it would be welcomed. From what I could gather from these last several posts, it was a lot of different things that piled up at once and crowded out the ability to see light at the end of the tunnel, as it were.

The reason I put it this way to you is not because I think my way of looking at doctrines is so much better, but because I think you showed exactly the right motive when your frustration with doctrinal discussion led you to see Christianity more in terms of 'what sort of persons we ought to be.'

As you might have gathered from other posts, I believe we have the Trinity right, hell/soul/torment right, new heavens and new paradise earth right, neutrality/war right, preaching activity, etc., etc., etc. And I've seen many dozens of positive adjustments in my lifetime. But I also think we have several things wrong, and probably need more adjustments even on the things we have right.

I could list all the things I think we might have wrong in one single place, and this might seem overwhelming, but I prefer to deal with the evidence for one thing at a time. And this is easier on others, too.

I hope you feel welcome if you continue to contribute here, or wherever else you decide.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 5/22/2017 at 8:49 AM, Micah Ong said:

Hey everyone thanks for the discussion but I am going to have to agree to disagree on our views regarding the Bible and it's message.  Thanks for sharing your views.  The Librarian has said this post is now enormous lol 

Not many people do this. I like it. Micah goes up a few notches in my book. [No, not THAT book, you old hag of a Librarian...sheesh! And why don't you mind your own business about how long a thread is? Those trashy romance novels you read all day aren't exactly short, are they?]

It's how I try to operate, as well. Make the best case you can. But there comes a point where you throw it all in God's lap; he knows if he is a trinity or not.

Sometimes people disagree. I can live with that. 

[Micah Ong]

I have to say that I am open to the true nature of Nature of God and the Son now, not a trinity believer per se.

The scriptures indicate that Jesus is Eternal and the Father is Eternal.  What I am seeing now is that the, The Son is an individualized portion of God, the original expression of God.  And yet God the Father is the original and is greater.  Jesus is Eternal in that he came from God. 

Of course I could be wrong and we can on and on about who's right and who's wrong but in the end God reveal things to all mankind soon.

I'm not feeling the need to be conclusive about anything as the promise is made to us that man will never learn all there is to know about him. 

I feel confident that whatever the truth is, we will begin to understand it more in due time as he reveals it to us in the future.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That’s good you mention how people can disagree,

Despite commenting on this thread, I only skimmed it. If heat built up, I don't know about it. It is hard for heat not to build up when discussing the Trinity too for long. I wasn't being critical of you for engaging in the discussion for as long as your like. I have done it myself. I just don't do it anymore. It wears me out. So that means the following excerpt is tongue-in-cheek:

"All computers enjoy getting Tom Pearlsnswine going. I understand the appeal. I do it myself. If I am returning to the car after a long and productive return visit, I will nonetheless say to Tom Pearlsnswine upon entering: “I can’t believe that person won’t admit that Jesus and Jehovah are different!” I pretend not to notice as he reddens – you should see him! You can almost see the steam coming from his ears: “You kept me waiting an hour to argue the Trinity?!”

6 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That’s good you mention how people can disagree, as has been the case with you and O’Maly.

I didn't really agree to disagree with O'Maly. Instead, I went after her (and her chums) with such ferocity that the same admin who assigned me to that thread pulled me off it, hurled me into the abyss, and the entire thread with it.

I have a Scarlet A (abuse) to show for it, and I wear it as did Hester Prynne (hers was for adultery) from The Scarlet Letter. Like Hester Prynne, it fades in its initial shamefulness, and eventually is taken by some as 'angel.'

[Micah Ong]

7 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

writers like Clement of Alexandria of the second century used a form like “Yahweh” so this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost.

That maybe so but at the risk of sounding like a broken record Philippians 2:10,11 "God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, ¹⁰ so that at the name of Jesus ^[b]every knee shall bow [in submission], of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth"

Acts 4:10-12 "This Jesus is the stone which was despised and rejected by you, the builders, but which became the ^[e]chief Cornerstone. ¹² And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among people by which we must be saved"

Compare

Romans 10:13 New World Translation is contradictory to Acts 4:12.  "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

verse 14  But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?  The Jews already knew Yahweh and believed in him so verse 13 must be talking about Jesus.

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power and ability when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you will be My witnesses both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and even to the ends of the earth.”

The theme of the New Testament isn't about God's name it's about the new covenant and the revealing of Jesus and his saving work by means of God.

[Micah Ong]

10 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Then you contradict yourself by the question you originally posted. You want to eat your cake and have it too.

Why not as long as the discussion is conducive to more understanding.  I have shown how Jehovah is falsely inserted in Romans 10:13 as verse 14 shows it should be Jesus.  This completely harmonizes with Acts 4:12.  All you can do is say I haven't got full understanding when you have nothing to back up anything to the contrary.

Insert YHWH so that the the scriptures are manipulated to suit the their doctrine?

Are the Pharisees who had Jesus put to death, who "call on the name of Jehovah" saved?