Russian ban on JW in the light of prophecy

[Mike Forrest]

How does the ban on JW in Russia fit into our current belief? Since many years WT have explained that the attack on Jehovahs people should occur AFTER 1. Proclamation of Peace and Security and     2. The fall of Babylon the Great.

Also in WT 2015 (May 15 p. 29-30) it says that "it seems to be in harmony with ...(Ezek 38: 6,15)...that this coalition will be led by the figurative “king of the north” (text sequence edited by me) .

Can we expect new light on this or does someone now a different explanation? 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015364#h=6-6

http://wol.jw.org/sv/wol/dsync/r14/lp-z/r1/lp-e/1102014263

https://youtu.be/D8pvnrV5s94

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

That presumes that all Jehovah's Witnesses think exactly the same way, about the exact same things, which is the Society's goal .. but it never happens. The Society has NEVER been right about ANYTHING they predicted .. which is why "new light" is discovered AFTER the facts become evident.  I remember as a preteen boy accompanying my Mom to Assemblies where the "King of the North" and "Gog of Magog" were discussed with millions of words extending over 60 years of my lifetime, and NONE of it had any practical relevance to my or any other person's life, with the possible exception of keeping me too busy to get into trouble.

We have seen so much "New Light" that no one has noticed the long trail of dead, corroded batteries trailing behind, from "light" that was actually darkness.

It is no shame to say to any hypothesis "I am GUESSING ... I really have no idea whatsoever "  Sorta like the Pyramids found in Europe recently that are at least 25,000 years old.

"Prophets" in modern times never have to work hard, miss any meals, or turn down "green handshakes".

.My guess about Russia is  .... to paraphrase ... "STUFF HAPPENS!".

 

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, Micael Frost said:

How does the ban on JW in Russia fit into our current belief? Since many years WT have explained that the attack on Jehovahs people should occur AFTER 1. Proclamation of Peace and Security and     2. The fall of Babylon the Great.

When either a religious group or a group of religions are singled out for suppression of their freely chosen movement and activities, then this might be termed persecution. To the extent that the reason for the suppression was related to teaching and preaching the message of the Bible or following Bible precepts, then this is the same as being persecuted for our Christianity (being persecuted for Christ's name's sake). Therefore, at least a portion of the suppression is "persecution" and Jesus said that Christians would be persecuted for following him.

Obviously, we don't want to suffer for breaking a law of Caesar's (assuming that Caesar's law doesn't conflict with God's law).

(1 Peter 2:19, 20) 19 For it is agreeable when someone endures hardship and suffers unjustly because of conscience toward God. 20 For what merit is there if you are beaten for sinning and you endure it? But if you endure suffering because of doing good, this is an agreeable thing to God.

(1 Peter 3:17) 17 For it is better to suffer because you are doing good, if it is God’s will to allow it, than because you are doing evil.

(1 Peter 4:15, 16) 15 However, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or a wrongdoer or a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed, but let him keep on glorifying God while bearing this name.

This is the only prophecy that we can be sure is related to the ban in Russia. Jesus prophesied that persons bearing the name "Christian" would be persecuted. Even though the courts have claimed that the ban is not for being Christian, but for other things like:

• "encouraging suicide"
• "claiming superiority over other religions, thus infringing on the freedom of conscience of others"
• "breaking up family associations"
• "enticement of minors into religious associations"
• "requiring that members proselytize in order to convert persons of other religions or ideologies."

But at least a couple of these so-called "problems" with JWs should be intrinsic to basic Christianity. Therefore another Christian precept is to "defend and legally establish" the good news.

(Philippians 1:7) 7 It is only right for me to think this regarding all of you, since I have you in my heart, you who are sharers with me in the undeserved kindness both in my prison bonds and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.

The suppression in Russia does not prove that we are the most persecuted religion on earth. (In fact, the vast majority of lands that we preach in benefit from freedom of religion laws that uphold peaceful assembly and the right to preach and live in almost any way we wish.)

The suppression in Russia may end up being just another pendulum swing in the legal battles Witnesses have had with the Russian government. It could all go another way in a matter of months. (And it could get much worse.)

Most of all, it does not mean anything specifically with regard to the "king of the north" or the idea that the U.N. might take a stand against all religion. We do not know who the "king of the north" is. As JTR said, all the guesses made in the past have never panned out as predicted. It's quite possible that our biggest test of faith will be the realization that the prophecy about the "king of the north" already came true two thousand years ago or more. 

It may also be true that we should NOT expect a special cry of peace and security. The context of Paul's letter to the Thessalonians actually makes this a real possibility. Paul may have been saying no more than "you won't be able to predict the time of the end by looking for wars and rumors of wars -- it could just as easily come during a time when at least some people are speaking about 'peace and security.'"

This would be the near equivalent of what 2 Peter says:

(2 Peter 3:4) . . .“Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”

That matches the way that Jesus predicted that it could occur during a time of peace and security:

(Matthew 24:36-44) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.

It's the kind of peace and security that keeps people from paying attention and keeping on the watch. In other words, there will be no sign. If Paul was speaking of a separate cry of peace and security, then this would be an obvious sign, which Jesus said we would not get.

In fact, this was Charles Taze Russell's view of Matthew 24 prior to 1914 and it was a view that continued even after 1914. The following is from Studies in the Scriptures, Volume IV:

The History of Eigtheen Centuries Briefly Foretold --Matt. 24:6-13; Mark 13:7-13; Luke 21:9-19--

"And ye shall hear of wars and rumors [threats, intrigues] of wars: see that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are primary sorrows." Matt. 24:6-8

Thus briefly did our Lord summarize secular history, and teach the disciples not to expect very soon his second coming and glorious Kingdom. And how aptly: surely the world's history is just this--an account of wars, intrigues, famines and pestilences--little else. Our Lord separates the history of the true Church and states it with similar brevity, thus:

"Then [during that same period, the Gospel age] they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations [peoples] for my name's sake. And then [during that same period] many shall be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets [teachers] shall rise and [D567] shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matt. 24:9-13

In the light of history would it be possible to portray the course of God's true Church in fewer words? Surely not. The likeness is perfect. "Whosoever will live godly shall suffer persecution," is the Apostle's declaration; and whoever has not shared it has every reason to doubt his relationship to God as a son. (Heb. 12:8)

 

I doubt that such a change in doctrine will happen any time soon, but this doctrine about Matthew 24 (as it was once taught in the Watch Tower publications) is probably a change in doctrine that has a good chance of being accepted again, assuming that the scene of the world does not change too significantly over the next few decades. (Chances of that seem pretty slim, too.)

This leaves us exactly where we should be, trusting in Jehovah, in any and every situation, whether in favorable season or troublesome season:

• (Psalm 56:3-12)  3 Whatever day I get afraid, I, for my part, shall trust even in you.  4 In union with God I shall praise his word. In God I have put my trust; I shall not be afraid. What can flesh do to me?  5 All day long they keep hurting my personal affairs; All their thoughts are against me for bad.  6 They attack, they conceal themselves, They, for their part, keep observing my very steps, While they have waited for my soul.  7 On account of [their] hurtfulness cast them forth. In anger bring down even the peoples, O God.  8 My being a fugitive you yourself have reported. Do put my tears in your skin bottle. Are they not in your book?  9 At that time my enemies will turn back, on the day that I call; This I well know, that God is for me. 10 In union with God I shall praise [his] word; In union with Jehovah I shall praise [his] word. 11 In God I have put my trust. I shall not be afraid. What can earthling man do to me? 12 Upon me, O God, there are vows to you. I shall render expressions of thanksgiving to you.

 

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Micael Frost said:

How does the ban on JW in Russia fit into our current belief?

Jehovah's people have been under attack since Cain slew Abel (1Jo.3:12). This is more of the same, so nothing has changed.

 As for the positioning of principal characters on the world stage (1Co.4:9; 7:31), that's a matter for Jehovah to reveal in His due time. Like premier league soccer in Britain, there are as many pundits as there are players on the prophetic field at present,  and no shortage of them on this forum either. 

As JTR laments above, prophecy has it's many interpreters, but no there is no truer statement than that found in our Insight Vol 2 p.1141: "full discernment of the prophecy’s application may have to await God’s due time for its being carried out."  

This is in complete harmony with Jehovah's own word at 2Pet.1:20: "For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation."

So the posturing of Russian authorities in relation to Jehovah's people may........or may not have particular significance relating to our understanding of Daniel Chap 11:40-45. One thing for sure is that any interpretation of this matter rests with the God who stated: 

"For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets" Amos 3:7

Now, we are well aware that the function of the "faithful and discreet slave" today differs from the role of the prophets of old in that there is no claim to inspiration attached to their office. However, as those commisioned with oversight, particularly in the provision of [spritual] food to God's people in modern times, we can be sure that any application of prophecy with affect or effect on our "current belief" will be made known to us via that same "faithful and discreet slave" and through whatever relevant channel of communication is available to them at the time.

 

[Aaron Mathewson]

I appreciate the latter two replies, as they are better grounded to the scriptures... but that first reply is fundamentally wrong. Saying nothing has ever come true is completely false. Early in the history of the org there were incorrect assumptions, some of which partly made it into print. But after they saw the need and started basing their "prophecies" on scripture and only predicting what was obvious from the Bible, everything they have said has come true. They new something bad would happen in 1914, and warned about Hitler's years before he tried to conquer the world, and they also predicded this ban in Russia over 10 years ago. So your statements are completely incorrect at the foundation level. But then when you are grinding your teeth the only thing to build on is sand.

[Micah Ong]

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I wish we could have new light with regards to a lifesaving blood transfusion.

Matt 12:10 "...they asked Jesus, “Is it lawful and permissible to heal on the Sabbath?”—they asked this so that they might accuse Him and bring charges into court. ¹¹ But He said to them, “What man is there among you who, if he has only one sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? ¹² How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep!"

Life is sacred isn't it?

But I think personally, I would still prefer a glass of red to be wine...

@Aaron Mathewson Only takes one failed "prophecy."

Deut 18:20-22 “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him."

The Generation prophecy is obviously flawed but new light say it's an overlapping generation.  You only have to look at the Queen of England to see that there is now four living generations.

 

[JW Insider]

18 hours ago, Aaron Mathewson said:

But after they saw the need and started basing their "prophecies" on scripture and only predicting what was obvious from the Bible, everything they have said has come true.

As a Witness, I am happy that our accepted understanding of Scripture has been made so relevant for our day from the perspective of morality and lifestyle, and in so many other practical ways. The worldwide brotherhood creates the moral support we need to remain encouraged and faithful in a world that is so full of stress. We avoid unnecessary involvement in the world's affairs, refuse to take sides in divisive politics and wars. We shun the idolatry of national symbols and worldly ideologies. We shun the materialistic viewpoint of the world, and related philosophies, and the "showy display of one's possessions."

(1 John 2:15-17) 15 Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life* [NWT footnote: "the bragging about one's possessions"] —does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.

The organization we are associated with has laid the foundation for one of the most effective and widespread preaching and teaching programs in the entire world, and we also are privileged to participate in it. The spirit of active giving and self-sacrifice creates a climate of happiness and closeness with one another. We learn to get along with a varied cross-section of brothers and sisters from anywhere in the world, and from many walks of life.

I believe we embody a twenty-first century version of that first-century movement in a way that makes the same issues we find in the Greek Scriptures come alive in our own congregations. Yes, some of those issues are about imperfections and flaws, one of them being the constant misunderstandings about the "last days" and the "time of the end." Finally, Paul, said that 'we don't need anything to be written to us about the times and seasons because it's coming without warning; therefore we need to be ready at all times.'

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-11) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. . . . 6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses. . . . 11 Therefore, keep encouraging one another and building one another up, just as you are in fact doing.

I take that quite literally. We need NOTHING to be written to us about chronology, about the times and seasons, because Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. There is no advance warning of any kind.

I think this is why it's actually very true that we've never gotten anything correct (yet) when trying to make a prediction based on prophecy. There are a couple of apparent exceptions to the rule, similar to the ones you mentioned, and I'd like to try to address them in the next post. But the rule remains true, even when you get one or two things right out of nearly 100 attempts to put a time limit on events, or predict that events will happen within a certain time frame, or even try to tie a Biblical event to a particular entity in our current time frame.

Our track record on prophecy does indicate that we really know nothing about prophecy before a fulfillment takes place. In fact, even when the "fulfillment" has taken place, we are also still guessing, because almost all the "fulfillments" we claim to have known about have also been changed over time, in our publications' explanations. All we have, therefore, are the latest guesses ("private interpretations" to borrow a phrase from 2 Peter 1:20) of what prophecies in our day might mean, or might have meant. The vast majority of these predictions have already been dropped, and the vast majority of applications we have made from prophecy and prophetic drama have also been dropped or changed significantly. This goes for EVERYTHING, even things as simple as the wheat and the weeds, the faithful and discreet slave, the sheep and the goats, the prodigal son, and the meaning of various parables about the Kingdom of God.

Based on all the evidence so far, we would have to admit that we have never had a clue about the application of specific future events. And that's the way it should be. We need nothing to be written to us about events related to the times and seasons.

We should concern ourselves with being witnesses for the good news about Jesus, encouraging others and being the kind of persons we ought to be. We do this rather than join the stress and/or excitement of worrying about:

• whether "World War III" is imminent, or
• worldwide persecution is imminent, or
• concerns about who is the "king of the north," or
• who and where is "Gog of the land of Magog," or
• whether the UN is getting ready to make a move against religion.

None of those things need concern us. We trust in Jehovah and throw our burden on him.

I believe it is true, then, that Jesus already told us what we need to know about the time of the end. To that point, I will also respond to something that Eoin said about Amos 3:7.

22 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

"For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets" Amos 3:7

If Paul says there is nothing more to reveal about this matter, I think we should believe him. It appears, from our experience so far at least, that the gift of "prophecy" may have already been done away with.

(1 Corinthians 13:8) . . .But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with. . .

The prophecy that Jesus gave about the time of the end, and various other references to the end for which we are still awaiting fulfillment, should be sufficient for us. Anything more that Jehovah would reveal of "his confidential matter to his servants the prophets" would be the equivalent of giving prior knowledge. It would become, in effect, an additional sign of the imminence of the end. How would one square that with the words of Jesus?

(Matthew 24:36-42) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. . . . 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. . . . 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.

(Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.

Also of possible interest:

(Daniel 8:23-25) 23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24 His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. 25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security* [NWT footnote adds: or possibly, "and without warning"] he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

The effectiveness of the "fierce-looking king" and his ability to bring even many mighty and holy ones to ruin, is through cunning and deception, during a time of peace and security. This does not imply any advance warning, but something that can go on over a potentially long period of time, up until a stand is taken against the Prince of princes. It's our responsibility not to be deceived by 'the ruler of this world' or any of the powers of this system of things, but to remain no part of the world, on the lookout not to get bogged down in the things of this world. But it may also mean that our watchfulness should be all the greater when things seem to be going well for us, without hindrance, because that's the easiest time become like the unfaithful slave who says 'my master is delaying.' Yet most of us seem to raise the alert levels only when those portions of the world that we pay attention to are the most stressed.

(Galatians 6:9, 10) 9 So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due season we shall reap if we do not tire out. 10 Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith.

(2 Timothy 4:1-5) . . .I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his kingdom, 2 preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, suffer evil, do [the] work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.

During times of stress and fear, we are quick to wonder what end-time prophecy is being fulfilled. Yet during a "favorable season," a time when people are enjoying relative peace and security, that's when another very important prophecy is being fulfilled: the prophecy of 2 Tim 4:3, for example, about when people will want to have their ears tickled with false stories. The Watch Tower publications say that this type of thing began to happen especially after the apostles died out around the year 100 C.E. During all these years, people were susceptible to false stories because during times of relative peace and security, it appeared the master was delaying and the temptation therefore presents itself to take advantage. People would ridicule the prophecy about Jesus' parousia, manifestation and kingdom and say that all things are continuing as they always were.

(2 Peter 3:1-18) . . . Beloved ones, this is now the second letter I am writing you in which, as in my first one, I am stirring up your clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, 2 that you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles. 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” . . . 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, . . .11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah,. . . 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell. 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, . . . 17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness.

So, from verse  17, we already have "this advance knowledge," the knowledge that Jehovah's day will come as a thief. We need nothing more to written to us about it. People are therefore saying that all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation's beginning. This is apparently what Jesus was saying, too, when the apostles asked him for a sign and, instead of giving them a sign, he said:

(Matthew 24:4-8, 23, 27) . . .“Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. . . . 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. . . . signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Instead of a sign or signs to watch out for, we know that the presence comes suddenly, like lightning. if anyone tells us there are signs, or that Jesus is already present somewhere, we are not to believe it. We have been forewarned.

I know this isn't the way we usually read Matthew 24, but it's the way that seems to make the most sense with all the rest of the scriptures that comment on it. It's one of the most important prophecies we use when referring to this particular part of the last days we find ourselves in. Yet, it tells us not to get concerned about things we might have thought were signs of the end, because the end could happen at any time, with or without the things we tend to think of as "signs." Wars and reports of wars and persecution and preaching would continue to happen during the last days, but the end is not yet. Since the end could still happen at any time, this must mean only that these are not "signs" of the end.

[AveragePub]

It may or it may not.  Time will tell.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It is no crime for anyone, or any authoritative   Governing Body, to honestly say about any topic ...

"I don't have the slightest clue ... I do NOT know the answer".

How simple life could be for ALL of us if this basic premise were common.

.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

When someone TRUSTS you .. it is criminal to lie to them .... but most people  convince themselves of the lie first as a matter of political survival.

[Micah Ong]

On 4/23/2017 at 6:49 PM, Aaron Mathewson said:

But after they saw the need and started basing their "prophecies" on scripture and only predicting what was obvious from the Bible, everything they have said has come true.

No because they are fundamentally flawed with the false prophecy of 1914.  They retain that as the time the end was meant to come then again in 1918 then 1925 then 1975.  The mansion Beth Sarim built for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's return, which Rutherford spent time in was sold after he died.  No end of system and resurrection occurred. They are flawed from the outset as spokes persons for Jehovah.  

Deut 18:22 "When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him."

How is Jesus head of that congregation from 1919 when all these things were happening?

John 14:26 "But the ^[d]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will help you remember everything that I have told you."

The Holy Spirit does not teach things and then flip flop and make adjustments, especially false prophecies.