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Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in Jesus? Yes!

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1 minute ago, Micah Ong said:

Now if the Bible quotes from the Book of Enoch then this means the Book of Enoch is divinely inspired and should be included in the Bible.

Not logical. The choice of quote may be inspired and the point made, but inclusion of a quotation does not make the work quoted from inspired. Acts 17:28 is a case in point.

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1.

The Bible is a book that is true and worthy of belief. This is not to say that a literal interpretation makes it infallible.

2.

The apparent contradictions found in the Bible arise from not interpreting the Bible in a spiritual manner. This implies that a literal interpretation can lead to problems.

3.

By reading the Bible spiritually and prayerfully, the Holy Spirit can guide the reader into spiritual truth.

From these facts, another conclusion may be drawn. While there exists severe problems with a literal interpretation (as you will discover below), this does not mean the Bible is not worth studying. We mustn't throw out the "baby" with the "bath water." These problems of giving the Bible a literal interpretation only show that it is the men who wrote the Bible who are fallible, not the Spirit of God. It can then be assumed that having these severe problems of literal interpretation were meant to exist in the Bible - perhaps because there exists a spiritual and/or symbolic meaning behind the literal problems.

For example, the

    Hello guest!
has severe and catastrophic errors when interpreting it literally. However, when interpreted spiritually, this account may be spiritually true and not literally true. In fact, the same symbols in Revelation can be found in the dream symbolism of the Book of Daniel. This suggests the Book of Revelation is actually a dream or series of dreams which must be interpreted symbolically.

Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of his day for taking a strictly literal, conservative view of the Hebrew Bible. They created an entire system of man-made rules and regulations around their literal interpretation of scriptures. Because they rejected Jesus' liberal interpretation of scripture, their theology was in question, so they had Jesus killed. Today, there are a large number of religious leaders and followers who are making the same mistake. For the last two thousand years of church history, literalism help fan the flames of Inquisitions, crusades, and all kinds of disputes over man-made dogma, such as: works versus faith, trinity versus oneness, eternal security versus no security, baptism versus tongues, and predestination versus free will, just to name a few.

My purpose in pointing out the serious flaws of Bible literalism is to show that the gospel of Christ is much simpler than many Christians believe. The simple message of Jesus doesn't involve any interpretation nor all the rules and traditions that go along with it. The message of Jesus is love - unconditional love (

    Hello guest!
). The teachings of Jesus is not about religious dogma. A close examination of the Sermon on the Mount shows that the centerpiece of Jesus' teachings was love for your neighbor and your enemy. His gospel message is as simple and as profound as love.

 

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On 5/20/2017 at 2:31 AM, Micah Ong said:

Peter also references the Book of Enoch in

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and
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. Now if the Bible quotes from the Book of Enoch then this means the Book of Enoch is divinely inspired and should be included in the Bible. The Book of Enoch existed centuries before the birth of Christ and is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It is very likely  that Jesus read the Book of Enoch and believed it to be scripture. It was considered scripture by many early Christians as well.

Hey bro, you aren't making sense here. "non-sequitr" - it does not follow. Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in 

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 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude, verses 14-15. Jude quoting from the book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true. It is interesting to note that no (or at least very few) scholars believe the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch in the Bible contrary to your assertion here. Once again, it's time to check your "facts" - however well-intentioned they may be. There is no indication whatsoever that "It is very likely that Jesus read the Book of Enoch and believed it to be scripture. It was considered scripture by many early Christians as well." (?)  To quote Wikipedia:  "It is regarded as 
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 by the 
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 and 
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, but not by any other 
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 groups."

On 5/20/2017 at 5:30 AM, Micah Ong said:

For example, the

    Hello guest!
has severe and catastrophic errors when interpreting it literally. However, when interpreted spiritually, this account may be spiritually true and not literally true.

Nobody is suggesting any of what you are writing about in this last post. Of course, giving a literal interpretation of everything in the Bible doesn't make sense. Is there anyone who actually believes literal monsters are going to crawl out of the see with a giant harlot drinking wine riding them? 

On 5/20/2017 at 5:30 AM, Micah Ong said:

The simple message of Jesus doesn't involve any interpretation nor all the rules and traditions that go along with it. The message of Jesus is love - unconditional love

Maybe the simple message of love Jesus taught doesn't need much to interpret it, even though many still seem to misunderstand it, and it is also fair to say that human "rules and traditions" shouldn't be come into play here, but that doesn't mean no interpretation of things pertaining to God's will and purposes hasn't played an important role in God's inspired word. The Bible is full of interpretations, many in the very book you often quote - the book of Daniel. Some interpretations were for immediate benefit, others for later. Now as for "unconditional love," it seems you have a romanticized ideal of what that should involve which has no basis in support either from the Bible or any other Holy Book. So you are on your own again on that one - a force of one. It is true, that Jehovah showed extraordinary love in offering the life of his son in behalf of mankind who were in effect enemies. But that didn't mean that "anything goes," or it didn't matter whether people accepted or rejected his son. It doesn't mean that God's love is so expansive that it doesn't matter how we use our freedom of choice as to good or bad, righteous or evil. With that freedom comes accountability, and even though God may show principled love to individuals even when they are imperfect, like every loving parent, there are boundaries that are for the benefit of all and are intrinsic to his standards and the outworking of his purposes. For, if, in extending "unconditional love," he tolerated wickedness without accountability, it wouldn't really be love - especially for those who may suffer because of the wickedness that this "unconditional love" might allow. "Unconditional love" is a myth that has no scriptural basis. It's not what real love is or should be. And the romantic notion that it doesn't matter what you believe or do is just that. A "pie-in-the sky" that has no solid support anywhere.

Matthew 12:31-33 "...but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven...it will not be forgiven him , no, not in this system of things nor in that to come."  1 John 5 "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments..." Deut. 30:19 "I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live..." Genesis 2:17 "But as for the tree of the knowledge of god and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die." (If God's love was "unconditional," Adam would not have been sentenced to death and in the process, it would have made God appear to be a liar for not holding Adam accountable for his actions as he said he would. Who could ever really trust Him after something like that? Who could ever put faith in what he says?) Similarly, are we to believe without any scriptural basis whatsoever that God's "unconditional love" absolves Satan of any accountability for all the pain and suffering he has caused and would continue to cause if he were not held accountable? Even in the so-called Book of Enoch, God pronounces doom and judgments against fallen angels and the coming judgment of the wicked.(The Book of Parables). Don't fool yourself. Unconditional love is not really love at all. It is the toleration of wickedness with a nice sounding label.

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Our need to be right can overtake Jesus message of imitating his unconditional love and cause us to be self-righteous.  None of us are the Judges. 

The Word of God is bigger and more widespread than what is written down in the Bible. What we get in the New Testament is merely snapshots of Jesus.  Likewise what we get in the Old Testament is only a snapshot of the YHWH.  Likewise what is written in Genesis is only a snapshot of creation.

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." - John 21:25

If you feel the need to be right and Judge people using the Bible that is your prerogative.   Only the Father and Jesus Judge.

Jesus said, "The pure in heart shall see God."

The Pharisee's were Judges of the people using scriptures but did they see God?

4 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

It is the toleration of wickedness with a nice sounding label.

You don't have to agree with wickedness to have unconditional love.  What is intolerance going to achieve.  Didn't God say he would fix it all.  Isn't it God that decides what he is going to do.  Case in point of how unhealthy it is to become the Judge or Spokesperson for God using scriptures is the West Borough Church.  I'm not saying you are a Judge but when using these scriptures you can in effect cast judgements to other people playing the Judge.

Just keep it simple brother.  What did the Pharisee receive as an answer from Jesus when he asked what the greatest commandment is?

“Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[

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] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[
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]
40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

I don't care if I'm wrong in other details as long as I'm am trying to do what Jesus said was the most important thing to do.  If you get to caught up in the mind you can become disconnect to the heart.  There is a balance as Jesus says in verse 37.

Jesus says to love your enemies and pray for them.  Would you feel the need to correct your enemies after Jesus lovingly spoke to you personally with that message?  Love has a greater positive influence than blunt correction.  Jesus was and still is the epitome of this.  All though we are all sinners he came to die for all of us.

 

 

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4 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

like every loving parent, there are boundaries that are for the benefit of all and are intrinsic to his standards and the outworking of his purposes

Even though one is disciplined it doesn't mean they aren't loved unconditionally, it is the discipline that is an act of love after all. 

We are all facing the death because of sin, does that mean we aren't loved unconditionally.  We haven't earned salvation but it is a gift because of unconditional love (undeserved kindness).  Yes of course there a boundaries and people suffer the consequence of overstepping the boundaries but it doesn't mean we don't continue to grow in love and learn from our mistakes.  It is unfortunate for people who continue on a wrong path but that doesn't mean God doesn't continue to extend his unconditional love towards them hoping they learn and grow in love towards him. 

God's will is perfect and our knowledge of things is so limited.  Please do not play the judge.

Matthew 7:1,2 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others.[

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] The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.

This is why I am no longer going to be critical of Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion.  Well try not too anyway lol :) I'm not saying I'm not judgmental because we can all be, and I started the thread lol :)

If you are going to counter-argument, I am not going to respond because this is wearisome.  You might count time for your witnessing but I feel like I am wasting my energies on this rather than engaging in helpful things that up-build.  This is not an attack on your character because I see you are sincere.  This is just my final resolve.

Kind regards

Micah

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With respect and hoping the best for you I likewise will post no counter argument. At this point it is clear we can respectfully agree to disagree. We also both recognize that having the last word doesn't make someone right anyway, so I won't include any parting disagreements (even though we both know I have them ;) Just hope the best for both of us and that we will see a bright and happy future for each other as Gods promises are realized. 

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