JW "Doctrine" versus "Opinion"

[PeterR]

17 minutes ago, Anna said:

First of all the "overlapping generation" is not a doctrine. As I already stated, it is an opinion.

 

Wow. Wow. Wow Wow. Wow.

And wow.

Where did you hear this?

 

- Is 1914 enthronement a doctrine or an opinion?

- Is 1919 appoint of a FDS a doctrine or an opinion?

 

Depending on how you answer, could you please explain the distinction between JW "doctrines" and "opinions".

If you can do that I will return the favor by explaining it back to you thereafter, and also explaining why I feel it is so.

 

[David Normand]

Doctrine is "a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group." Online dictionary. 

An opinion may also be considered doctrine, but doctrine may not necessarily be an opinion. Doctrine may be based upon fact such the earth is round. However, doctrine may also be based upon opinion such as the doctrine of evolution which to some is based upon faith rather than observable fact. 

The appointment of the FDS in 1919 is opinion based upon reasoning from the scriptures and taught as doctrine. Opinions change. Interpretation of scripture changes. For example, the teaching of "this generation" has undergone significant change in the past decade. As well as the doctrine of disfellowshipping undergone changes from when Russell first discussed the matter in the 1880's to where it is now. 

Opinion is just that, an opinion and not necessarily a doctrine. I have my opinion about how the world will be cleansed from all the stuff man has done to it, but that is not JW doctrine. Very wisely, the FDS has really gotten away from having an opinion on everything and passing it off as doctrine. We can now grow beards, have a beer at lunch, and still participate at Christian meetings in the evening. Opinions changed based upon reasoning from the scriptures has driven doctrinal changes. 

Cheers,

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 6/19/2017 at 23:37, PeterR said:

Anna said; it is an opinion ..... 

... by Anna's opinion /Srecko was add/ :))))

"Overlapping generation" is -Made in USA by WT GB-.  After that some idea came, developed inside "bible scholars" of WT, no matter are they part of GB, "The Helpers", some other people or not, GB made final decision what to do with idea, opinion, thought, or however we want to call that.

WT magazine is main tool and mean to promote ideas, opinions, teachings-doctrines and instructions. And also is the main, principal magazine to withdraw, revoke all teachings that need to be changed. So whatever name we want to use on this particular issue, one thing stayed; You as JW member must going to be in line with new "information". 

If you decide to think on some issue differently than it is explained in official publication, than you as member put yourself in position to be at least "marked" by other (elders, JW members) as individual who are walking on edge of "JW spiritual paradise organization".

Yes, "overlapping generation" is part of WT JWorg "unique" teachings and by that is "doctrine", because noun teaching is the same as noun doctrine in religious vocabulary. Please do not forget to use wording "dogmas" in WT theology system. Because some teachings, that has not been changed, yet :))) are, theologically looking, dogmas.     

doctrine

ˈdɒktrɪn/

noun

 

1. a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

   "the doctrine of predestination"

   sinonimi:

   creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching;

    

   teaching

   ˈtiːtʃɪŋ/

   noun

   noun: teaching; plural noun: teachings

   1. 1.

      the occupation, profession, or work of a teacher.

      "I went into teaching because I like working with children"
   2. 2.

      ideas or principles taught by an authority.

      "the teachings of the Koran"

dogma

ˈdɒɡmə/

noun

plural noun: dogmas

1. a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

   "the dogmas of faith"

   sinonimi:

   teaching, belief, conviction, tenet, principle, ethic, precept, maxim, article of faith, canon,law, rule;

 

 

[Evacuated]

 

  On 6/19/2017 at 10:16 PM, @Anna said:

"First of all the "overlapping generation" is not a doctrine. As I already stated, it is an opinion"

There are a number of terms which although fairly neutral in themselves, have come to have quite emotive, and often negative,  association, particularly in the field of religious discussion.

These include dogma; doctorine; teaching; tradition; belief; interpretation; opinion. You might think of others, such as decree.

For example, the word "dogma" is quite innocently defined as above by @Srecko Sostar, but when one brings in a definition such as below, one can see the controversial possibilities and the potential for the clouding of rational discussion.

Catholic Encyclopedia:

"In Catholicism a dogma, unlike a simple belief, is said to be a truth solemnly formulated either by an ecumenical council or by the pope’s “infallible magisterium.” 

"When, therefore, the Church explains the meaning of a dogma this interpretation is to be maintained in all future time, and it can never be deviated from under pretence of a more profound investigation.” 

It often appears that when discussion on whether an understanding of an aspect of the Bible fits a particular category of the list given takes place, it is carried out from the standpoint of seeking to avoid the negative connotations of those formerly, purely descriptive terms.

Also, one cannot leave out of the scenario those "lurking bogeymen": heresy and apostasy.
 

[Srecko Sostar]

 

Thanks Fisher for mentioned me in your quote. Apologize in advance if i misunderstand you. But definition i was provide is not "innocently" :))) In fact it is the same as your fine explanation from CE book.

"a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true."

incontrovertible: not open to question; not able to be denied or disputed; impossible to doubt because of being obviously true

indisputable: true, and impossible to doubt; beyond doubt, not open to question; fact that is not subject to interpretation

Greetings!

[Evacuated]

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But definition i was provide is not "innocently"

Apolgy accepted. You did misunderstand me . You are not included in the description " innocent". This adjective I applied only with reference to the definitions you copied from Google. These of themselves do not carry the negative associations later formed by the manner in which these terms are defined and used.

 

[Matthew9969]

Question: does the governing body expect the rank and file to view the overlapping generation as doctrine?

[David Normand]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:54 AM, Matthew9969 said:

Question: does the governing body expect the rank and file to view the overlapping generation as doctrine?

There is not a glossary of terms at the end of the Bible that a person can peruse to get the correct sense of Hebrew and Greek words. It is really left up to us to decide what words or phrases mean. Most people do not have the inclination, time, or mental acuity to spend countless hours reading and researching ancient words and phrases and as such we deffer to trusted individuals to do that for us. 

Generation has different meaning depending upon the context. The current OPINION of the Faithful and Discrete slave is that generations refers to overlapping groups of people. At one time it included those individuals who were alive in 1914, which made sense back in the day when there were many folks in that group. Not that that group has dwindled significantly it makes sense to revise the definitions of generation in light of current facts. This may change some time in the future. Only time will tell. 

[Srecko Sostar]

32 minutes ago, David Normand said:

Generation has different meaning depending upon the context

hahahaha

1) all descendants who are equally distant from the common ancestor

2) members of one knee in relation to the common ancestor; 
people, animals, and objects that connect the age or time of appearance 
(generation of students, writers, new generation of computers).

NOT fantomic "Overlapping generation", this terminology is "Made in USA by WT"   

 

 

[David Normand]

Either you accept "generation" as they explain it or you don't. You are looking at a Koine Greek word being translated into a current language. Koine Greek is a dead language. Any translation from it to any other is just a guess whether it is educated or not. Either you accept how the WT Society attempts to explain how Jesus intended "generation" to be interpreted or not. Honestly, I don't lose any sleep on this particular topic. Final analysis, it is still just an opinion that influences doctrine. If this system last another 100 years, then I am sure they will find another way to define "generation" that makes sense of that situation; but, until then I am content to just wait patiently for the end of this system of things when all things will be made clear.