Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In The "Overlapping Generation" JW Doctrine AFTER Being Baptized?

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, PeterR said:

At the end of 1968 this brother would have been studying the following Watchtower in the congregation:

This has nothing to do with anything. For all I know, he wasn't even alive at the end of 1968. His experience is about keeping his head in view of totally unrelated happenings probably 20 years previous.

It has nothing to do with material in print even, least of all, prophetic doctrine. You are flailing more with each word you write. Stop doing that.

Look, you don't like the Jehovah's Witness organization. Got it.

Not to mention that you will soon offend the orderly senses of the anal @The Librarian, bringing up a topic brand new. Please don't cry again if you find yourself again at the head of a thread you did not start.

[A Nice Guy]

Excuse me, Miss @The Librarian. You told us to talk about overlapping generations. Petie is talking about something else. He shouldn't be doing that. Make him start a new thread.

[PeterR]

3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This has nothing to do with anything. For all I know, he wasn't even alive at the end of 1968. His experience is about keeping his head in view of totally unrelated happenings probably 20 years previous.

It has nothing to do with material in print even, least of all, prophetic doctrine. You are flailing more with each word you write. Stop doing that.

Look, you don't like the Jehovah's Witness organization. Got it.

I openly admit that I have no idea what you are now saying, nor why you are saying it.

I'm not sure you do either.

TrueTomHarley - do you value honesty at all? Is there a basis for a conversation here, or when confronted with reality is pulling a pin on a confusion grenade the only option for you? If so I have to say that it was pretty effective.

In the meanwhile if anyone else has followed the exchange, and would like to make a reasoned comment on the matter, then I'd love to inhale a small whiff of sanity.

[bruceq]

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

We both know of the changes in doctrine that the wt has made through out the years, so we don't need to rehash those but rather reflect on the attitude and demand for conformity at those times. Here is where I see this as a problem, and maybe other's will not, the requirement to obey the gb or whomever was in charge at the time of said changes in doctrine. what comes to mind here is the exact scripture that bruceq quoted:

So you have admitted that the wt has changed doctrine, but you do not judge them or see them as been judged, but here in 1 Tim we see that the word of God has spoken about such matters in the context of what we are talking about. What I do not grasp is how anyone can align themselves to a group or group of men who's foundation is based upon incorrect teachings of doctrine. Its like saying that the Baha’i faith, if they are good people then the foundation of their beliefs will come around. Is Mormons are just good people, then after a while their doctrines will just fall into place? Catholics too? See my point.

 

 

I agree to an extent here, yes these are qualities in which God has instructed us to be. It should be second nature within our character as we serve Him through serving others. 

 

yes, I agree.

 

Fortunately since we are all imperfect the criteria for identifying true religion is  "Love one another" not a belief in any particular doctrine's substance [such as the meaning of generation] since they can be in many cases subject to change. Jn. 13:35. And since nearly all religions kill each other when a country goes to war that would identify the ones who do not as standing out by that mark. Of course there are other identifying marks but that one [love]  is also involved in all the rest as a DNA of evidence for the true faith. In my opinion Jehovah's Witnesses is that faith.

[JW Insider]

2 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What I do not grasp is how anyone can align themselves to a group or group of men who's foundation is based upon incorrect teachings of doctrine. Its like saying that the Baha’i faith, if they are good people then the foundation of their beliefs will come around. Is Mormons are just good people, then after a while their doctrines will just fall into place? Catholics too? See my point.

I don't align myself to a group of men. I seek a valid Christian brotherhood. I can't speak for why others choose the faiths they choose. But I can share my faith. If it is attractive to them, they will seek to learn more. Many people, especially Catholics from your examples, are Catholics because that's how they were raised. But Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses remind them through the process of going out publicly from door to door that there are other options out there, should they seek a change. Some find that attraction through better doctrine, and some through finding a loving Christian brotherhood that excels their current experience.

I personally think that JWs are doing the better job in setting the example of managing a worldwide public ministry. But, as you probably know, I would also welcome an adjustment to three or four non-major doctrines. I don't consider them major, although since one of them is our set of chronology doctrines, some JWs might. Even though I don't think they are critical, Jehovah knows that people will always be curious to see if there is some bit of calculating, in-depth research that might reveal the secrets of the ages. But I also know that Witnesses are not "stuck" on these doctrines. We've made terrible, stupid mistakes, and even promoted some false prophecies over these doctrines in the past, but as soon as they are proved false, they are dismissed. In general our belief in a "revealed" end-times chronology is intended to bolster activity and urgency and watchfulness. Perhaps it works for some people. I think it's the wrong motivation, but I don't know that any other motivation would work better for most of us. 

Also, I'm not one of those Witnesses who judges the members of others religions as deserving of death at Armageddon. I fully expect that it's more likely that all "religion" as organizations will break down during the Great Tribulation. But the ways in which an organization would remain united under such conditions will favor those individuals who came out of organizations that prepared and anticipated the troubles in some way.

[bruceq]

In regards to chronology even Russell said very early on that "there is always some possibility of mistakes" so it is a fluid subject based upon what you have to work with. For example is the date 1925 calculation was actually based on a "poor translation from the KJV" of Ushers Chronology that made the date wrong but they didn't figure that out until 1943 [which helped develop the early mss  for NWT] when archaeological discoveries helped formulate a more accurate chronology regarding times around the exile period. The point was they were trying to keep people's sense of urgency that Christendom long lost just as the Generation thing does today. Hard to "keep on the watch" if you think the end is not anytime close.

Sorry for going a bit off topic

[PeterR]

JWinsider - I wish it were possible to upvote your comments more than just the once. Several things you have written in this and related threads recently are very encouraging because they square directly with scripture and reason. You probably are aware that many students of the Bible have reached identical (or very similar) conclusions based on an unhindered reading of God's Word.

Thank you.

 

13 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Fortunately since we are all imperfect the criteria for identifying true religion is  "Love one another" not a belief in any particular doctrine's substance [such as the meaning of generation] since they can be in many cases subject to change. Jn. 13:35. And since nearly all religions kill each other when a country goes to war that would identify the ones who do not as standing out by that mark. Of course there are other identifying marks but that one is also involved in all the rest as a DNA of evidence for the true faith. In my opinion.

 

Bruceq - for sure it's an identifier, just as Jesus said it would be. He didn't actually say that it would identify a religion. He said it would identify people as Christians.

Does that dilute Christianity, or negate the need for Christian association and activity? Not at all.

But perhaps it should make us think about when the wheat and weeds are actually bundled according to Jesus' parables.

 

[bruceq]

I hope I don't get in trouble for this off topic remark but...back in WW 2 fighter pilots use to bring balls of aluminum foil with them. When they went into the enemy territory they would throw them out of the cockpit window. The reason for this was to mask the identity of his plane since the radar at that time could not tell the difference between a plane a flock of birds or aluminum foil. Therefore by illustration Satan has thrown out thousands of religions calling themselves "Christian" and yet only a handful of other sects of other religions. So Satan knows the true religion is one of Christianity's faiths since he is trying to hide it like a needle in a haystack. There are over 2,000 sects of Christianity but how many different Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are there?   Something to think about.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

The rules were changed when Bro. Nathan H. Knoor decided to get married.

THEN the arbitrary tyranny stopped.

Or, as Mel Brooks said in his movie, "History of the World, Part I" ... "It's GOOD to be King!".

.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

12 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The rules were changed when Bro. Nathan H. Knoor decided to get married.

THEN the arbitrary tyranny stopped.

While you were scrapping, I acknowledged that:

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/39002-the-judge-of-the-entire-earth-will-always-do-what-is-right/

I managed to do it without slandering a good man as a tyrant.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Slander is only slander if it is NOT true, and the person being excoriated is still alive.

Slander DAMAGES someone.   You cannot slander  or libel a dead person ... it is IMPOSSIBLE to hurt them.. They are dead.

and the perfect defense against a charge of being a slanderer is if what you said is TRUE.

The fact that the rules were changed for the President of the WTB&TS, and others were treated like disfellowshipped ones, there is a word for that.

TYRANNY.

Petty tyranny, to be sure ... not like being put in front of a wall blindfolded and shot ... but tyranny nonetheless.

At has ALWAYS been true among supposed equals everywhere .... "Everyone is Equal, but some are more equal than others.".

PubSpeak notwithstanding.

[Anna]

11 hours ago, PeterR said:

 

Okay Tom. Let's test that.

At the end of 1968 this brother would have been studying the following Watchtower in the congregation:

*** w68 8/15 p. 494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
 

I encourage you to examine it for yourself as if you were this brother at that time, and then see if you can sustain your response. There are too many highlights to choose from, but the one I was referring to in particular was this one:

 

*** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end.

 

The entire article was 37 paragraphs of building anticipation for 1975.

Please bear in mind that this was not "an opinion piece". This was a study article which all were expected to learn from and apply. So to say in this assembly video that this brother felt forewarned by what he had learned at the meetings is .... ?

Ah, now you may get picky and say that this was a few years before 1975 and maybe the fervor in print had cooled off by then. In that case please show me the mitigating texts that this brother was supposed to have drawn from. In fact the KM was praising those who sold houses and left jobs right up to the year itself. And this brother says "some even went so far as to sell homes and give up jobs ...". Hmmmm.

I know an elder who cuts out significant soundbites from study articles and sticks it on his wall as a reminder of "current truth". They will stay there for as long as it takes unless that truth is changed. So if this brother in the video had treated the Watchtower as seriously (and most did), then he would not have been "ignoring prevailing opinion at the time" as you suggest, but rather he would have been ignoring food from the FDS.

If you don't care to look up the article and other relevant material in print at the time then I would be happy to supply more quotations. But I imagine that will suffice to at least have you reconsider your assertion that what I wrote "is absolutely incorrect".

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think @TrueTomHarleywas talking about the brother who wanted to get married, in last weeks WT study, not about the 1975 brother in the video at the convention. If I'm not mistaken...