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 Do you think it is ok to discipline children at the Kingdom Hall?


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For example if  children are noisy during the meeting, parents may take them to the restroom or outside the Hall  and hit them with a belt or hand?

 
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Eoin: OF COURSE IT HAS CHANGED.   The scriptural admonition posted above is CRYSTAL CLEAR. I know for a fact that if my Father had not whipped me with belts and switches to cut the blood ou

No it is not to OK hit children, particularly with a belt. If parents are unable to prevent their children' disturbing others for whatever reason in the auditorium, then they should remain outsid

True.  But some people misinterpret this to mean that you have abandoned the standards you had before, especially the older children.  They think the younger ones get away with more than they did. The

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No it is not to OK hit children, particularly with a belt.

If parents are unable to prevent their children' disturbing others for whatever reason in the auditorium, then they should remain outside the auditorium, with their children, until the children are able to behave in a manner that does not disturb others.

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A CO once told our congregation of a family whose children hated coming to the meetings.  Turned out that that was the only time the children were ever disciplined and so they actually feared the meetings.  I remember my mother could quell us with a look whenever we were out because of the training we had been accustomed to at home.  

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(Proverbs 23:13, 14) Do not hold back discipline from a boy. If you strike him with the rod, he will not die. 14 With the rod you should strike him, In order to save him from the Grave.

(Deut 6:7) 7 and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up.

Some persons might feel that discipline can be done any place. Everyone will not think or act alike in everything. We just had that in the Book study. One brother understood what he had to do to be at peace with Jehovah and follow his Son (2 Peter 3:15) whereas others - even those taking the lead - were wondering and pondering. Eventually they realized what neutrality was.

My mother used to discipline my nieces when they were very small at the back of the Kingdom Hall. (It is a very common practice here in the Caribbean but it is beginning to die out here too.) They learned not to misbehave at the meetings - which they could not do at home. They are now both married in the truth and still love Jehovah. She never had to do it with us, she would just give us a "look".

Then you have to get over the fact that even some Witnesses do not believe the scripture above in Proverbs 23:13.14 should be followed, although millions in and out of the truth testify that the discipline they got from their parents is responsible for their success in life. They prefer to do what the governments say. They think it is child abuse. They try to be more righteous than Jehovah.

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Proverbs 23:13, 14 has always puzzled me.  I can't imagine what a child would have to do to deserve being struck by a literal rod. Isn't the latest explanation that the rod here could be a symbol of authority, discipline, not necessarily requiring an actual beating?  

 

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*** g79 5/8 pp. 27-28 Should Children Be Spanked? ***


But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, when the spanking is an expression of and in a manner consistent with love. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs:
“Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.” (22:15) “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.” (23:13, 14) “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” (13:24)—New International Version.
While such references to the “rod” could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate “rod,” parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children.
The Bible, however, helps parents to avoid going to excesses by offering strong counsel against giving way to violent anger. (Prov. 16:32; 25:28; Col. 3:8) If a parent, ignoring this counsel about controlling anger, fiercely hit a child in an outburst of fury, that would be contrary to what God’s Word says about discipline being an expression of love. The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings that bruise and can even cripple a young child. That is child abuse, not loving discipline.
A wise parent recognizes that there are various ways to correct or punish a child. Sometimes just a firm word will do. In other cases a disobedient child may be briefly isolated. When a child spills or breaks something through childish carelessness or irresponsibility, often it is most effective to make the child clean it up or work to replace it, if feasible. Of course, flexibility is important, adapting the discipline to the situation and the child; what works with one may not work with another.
Yet, even as the Bible shows, spanking does have value as an occasional form of discipline, especially for young children. As they go along, most children will, time and again, challenge their parents’ authority, testing to see if they “really mean business” and deserve respect. Even nice children may say, “You shut up!” or “No, I won’t do it!” One doctor explained that it is as if the child knows where ‘a line has been drawn on the ground’ and yet crosses it to see what the parent will do. Can the child get away with it? Who is in control?
Particularly with very young children, such a challenge is not necessarily a time for an abundance of words. A spanking may be in order. No, not beating a child into submission, but a firm spanking sufficient to underscore who has authority.
As any tears subside, the parent can lovingly take the child into his or her arms. With quiet words, or just a warm embrace, the parent can say: “I love you too much for you to grow up without recognizing authority and the need for respect.” These are also choice moments to offer guidance that will touch the heart. After one father read in Science News the previously quoted view about avoiding spanking, he wrote to the magazine:
‘When my children were outright disobedient, my wife and I pointed out the reason for the violated rule and the child acknowledged the need for the penalty. Once, after the agreed-on number of smart spanks had been delivered with the paddle, my son (about 6) crept into my lap, hugged and kissed me and said, “Daddy, I guess I’ve learned my lesson.”’
All around us we see the sad consequences of excessive and misplaced permissiveness. So we should be able to appreciate the truthfulness of the Bible’s statement that “he who loves [his child] is careful to discipline him.” (Prov. 13:24, NIV) It is truly loving for parents, in a child’s early years, to commence helping the youngster to recognize authority and to realize that there must be reasonable limits to freedom. The brief pain of firm but not harsh spankings when a young child needs such is certainly better than the grief that comes if, in teen-age or later years, he has not learned those lessons.
It takes real effort for parents to spank wisely—to avoid letting misplaced affection cause them to refrain from spanking, and yet to control themselves so that they do not let spankings lead to brutality or child abuse. But the counsel from our Creator, and the good effects forthcoming, prove that this effort is worth while. As Today’s English Version renders Proverbs 23:13, 14: “Don’t hesitate to discipline a child. A good spanking won’t kill him. As a matter of fact, it may save his life.”
 

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4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking?

Wikipedia reports that "As of July 2016, corporal punishment of children by parents (or other adults) is banned in 49 countries"

The term "spanking" does not seem to appear in Jehovah Witnesses literature since the mid 1980s. A search of jw.org does not return any reference to the term at all.

Have we modified our view on this matter? 

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Eoin:

OF COURSE IT HAS CHANGED.  

The scriptural admonition posted above is CRYSTAL CLEAR. I know for a fact that if my Father had not whipped me with belts and switches to cut the blood out of my legs (for which he openly wept ..) the day I turned 18 years old I would have been electrocuted in the Spring Street Prison in Richmond Virginia.

We are not in an era where strong people do the right things anymore ... even in the Truth we are governed by Snowflake inspired political correctness, participation awards, and instead of a love for mercy and righteousness ... all theocratic policy is now set by the Society's Lawyers and Accountants, and the rest is ignored or watered down.

But for the emasculated Fathers among the Brotherhood, there is HOPE!

GROWACET  600 B .jpg

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  • As the below article points out, discipline needs to be tailored to the child. (JTR, I guess you must have been a hellraiser.) Having raised four kids I found with each succeeding child I resorted less and less to corporal punishment as I learnt more effective ways of achieving the desired outcome.  I don't think - usually speaking - there's much mental-regulating going on during a spanking, just learnt fear and humiliation.  
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  • w04 7/15 pp. 27-31
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Imperfect people need discipline, and they need it from childhood onward. “The one holding back his rod is hating his son,” says the king of Israel, “but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”Proverbs 13:24.

A rod is a symbol of authority. At Proverbs 13:24, it refers to parental authority. In this context, employing the rod of discipline does not necessarily mean spanking a child. Rather, it represents the means of correction, whatever form it may take. In one case, a rebuke kindly given to a child may be sufficient to correct improper behavior. Another child may require a stronger reproof. “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times,” says Proverbs 17:10.

Parental discipline should always be directed by love and wisdom for the benefit of children. A loving parent does not overlook his child’s faults. On the contrary, he looks for them so that they can be removed before they become too deeply rooted. Of course, a loving parent takes to heart Paul’s admonition: “Fathers, do not be irritating your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah.”Ephesians 6:4.

 

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Yeah, when raising my three children I never had to beat them with a literal rod ... except for number 4, Amos (The Evil One), who we had to chain to the rafters in the attic, and occasionally discipline him by throwing a bucket of fish heads up the stairs at him.

Boy!, that kid could wail and moan and rattle chains like you wouldn't BELIEVE!

He was 32 years old before he died,  and he turned out nicely before the end.

We finally did train him to do useful, productive work, got him longer chains, and he ran  all during the nighttime on a giant hamster wheel hooked up to a generator for all our electricity, except the clothes dryer, which takes 240 volts.

I was there the night he died on the Hamster Wheel, while I was repairing  a smoking hot  bad wheel bearing, when he uttered his last words ...

"WATER!" "Water!

.... water ....

 

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On 6/24/2017 at 5:50 AM, SuzA said:

Having raised four kids I found with each succeeding child I resorted less and less to corporal punishment as I learnt more effective ways of achieving the desired outcome.

True.  But some people misinterpret this to mean that you have abandoned the standards you had before, especially the older children.  They think the younger ones get away with more than they did. They can't see that you have adjusted your methods of discipline due to more experience and discernemnt.

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