Jump to content
The World News Media

ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view


JW Insider

Recommended Posts

  • Member

@JW Insider thanks for your reply. 

So I wonder, could we say Jesus became an uncrowned king in 33 CE and a crowned king in 1914? The definition of “uncrowned”  being :“having royal rank or power without occupying the royal office”. Wouldn't this be scripturally compatible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 44.3k
  • Replies 487
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Even before C.T.Russell was born, commentaries on Bible prophecy included  dozens of potential dates. Nearly 200 years ago, a couple of them even included 1914 as potentially significant time period.

WAITING… AND FIGHTING ARchiv@L, I appreciate your advice. Very laconic, but appropriate. Only to develop a little further my attitude, let me mention David example in, perhaps, the most difficult pa

(Luke 12:47, 48) . . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did t

Posted Images

  • Member
33 minutes ago, Anna said:

So I wonder, could we say Jesus became an uncrowned king in 33 CE and a crowned king in 1914? The definition of “uncrowned”  being :“having royal rank or power without occupying the royal office”. Wouldn't this be scripturally compatible?

You could say it, but why? What's the reason we don't want to say Jesus was ruling as king in 33? We don't think he was occupying the royal office? Then why does Paul call him "King of Kings"? A crown is just another way of describing that he is king. One can also say he is ruling at God's right hand. There may be no such thing as a physical crown in heaven, or probably even our human concepts of "left" and "right." The Bible doesn't make a distinction about a crowned and an uncrowned king, so why should we?

Also, when the Watch Tower publications first spoke about Jesus not having the royal office until 1878 (which later become 1914) it was because he had not shown his power in any physical way yet. But now, since he had been physically present since 1874 he was going to make a physical mark on the world by removing humans in 1878 and taking them to heaven, a "harvest" if you will. Russell was sure enough of this to sell his belongings so as to distribute as many of Barbour's pamphlets as possible in time for the 1878 "rapture." ("Three Worlds, Harvest of This World"). The same idea became true of 1881, then 1910, then 1914, then 1918, then 1920, then 1925. Jesus was about to prove that he was MORE than just a king of his congregation.

Now, of course, nothing happened with any of these expectations except disappointment. The Watchtower's later claim in 1914 that the "world had ended" (but only those with spiritual discernment could see it) was based on all those prior expectations that nearly all earthly institutions would physically collapse within months of 1914. But the nations were not smashed with an iron rod. No major institutions collapsed. If anything many of them became more powerful than they were prior to 1914. It's as if all the talk about an invisible kingship became the new replacement for the expectations of a visible parousia in 1874 that Barbour had spoken about. It was only after the failure that Barbour and some of his contributors scrambled to make it an invisible parousia. Similarly, it was only after the failure of all the expectations of 1914 that Russell and some of his contributors made it an invisible end of the nations. Prior to that it was a physical end of the nations. (End of the times of the Gentile nations.)

To me, it's a little bit like we are participating in a cover-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

In the previous post I mentioned the big rush that Russell got behind to finance Barbour's "Three Worlds." It might be confusing to some that they thought the end of the time of trouble would occur in 1914. (Later, in 1904 this was changed to the start of a time of trouble, lasting until about 1915, or the end of 1915.)

If they thought that the end would be in 1914, how could they think of the rapture in 1878? It's because they thought that there was a higher heavenly calling in 1878 for people like Russell and Barbour and other "wise virgins" who recognized that Barbour was the one whom Jesus had used to call out the "midnight cry" beginning right around 1859 -- halfway between Miller's 1844 and the "dawn" or the "morning" in 1874. Russell later recognized that the word for "midnight" in Greek was not an exact time but a range of time, and pretty much removed Barbour from the equation as God's mouthpiece.

Those of the higher calling would go to heaven, called to the marriage of the Lamb for the 144,000, while other Christians would stay on earth for as long as they lived, at least up to 1914, and be changed when they died. This is how the "great crowd" would get to heaven. After all the Christians were in heaven, the millennium activity would be mostly about Christians working from heaven to transform the non-Christians who would inherit the earth.

Another interesting piece of information is that the chart that folds out at the beginning of "Three Worlds" uses 606 BCE, when Nebuchadnezzar received universal domination. This is actually much closer to the Bible's timetable, because it does not depend on when Babylon finally destroyed Jerusalem, 20 years into that domination, after several deportations of Jews. Note the image which can also be found here:

https://archive.org/stream/N.H.BarbourThreeWorldsAndHarvestOfThisWorld.ABriefReviewOfThe/Barbour_threeWorlds_harvestOfThisWorld_1877#page/n3/mode/2up

 

Russell1878.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
11 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

What's the reason we don't want to say Jesus was ruling as king in 33?

I guess because his beginning to rule as king has been tied to the last days, (as understood to be not the "last days" of Jerusalem's destruction in 70 C.E. but the last days of the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things i.e. great tribulation followed by Armageddon). Could it be said that the last days started in 33 C.E?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

*** w14 10/1 p. 13 " When Did God’s Kingdom Begin Ruling?—Part 1 ***
In his prophecy concerning the last days, Jesus said: “Jerusalem [which represented God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) So the interruption of God’s rulership was still in effect in Jesus’ time and would continue until the last days."

"(Daniel 12:9) Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end."

The time for Shiloh (the one who has the legal right to David's throne,Jesus Christ) to  resume rule of God's Kingdom  towards the earth would be AFTER the Gentiles Times would have ended - not when Jesus was on earth. God's rulership towards the earth was interrupted when the last King, Zedekiah, was dethroned and taken to Babylon.  David's permanent heir, a resurrected spirit being, would inherit that role and assume the role of King of God's Kingdom at a much later date, hence the scriptures saying he is waiting at God's right hand, making the 1914 the likely date, counting from 607BCE.  Even if that date is not accurate, it would be in modern times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
37 minutes ago, Anna said:

Could it be said that the last days started in 33 C.E?

Yes. Easily. Note these instances of the expression in the NWT:

(Acts 2:14-17) 14 But Peter stood up with the Eleven and spoke to them in a loud voice: “Men of Ju·deʹa and all you inhabitants of Jerusalem, let this be known to you and listen carefully to my words. 15 These people are, in fact, not drunk, as you suppose, for it is the third hour of the day. 16 On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel: 17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams,

Now that 33 had arrived, this expression is first used there in Acts. Then Paul tells Timothy that the reason he is seeing such problems in the congregation is because they are in the "last days."

(2 Timothy 3:1-14) . . .But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, . . . 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, . . .13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled. 14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, . . .

Also, Peter explains why people in that time period are ridiculing the delay of the parousia:

(2 Peter 3:3-8) 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people. 8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

Jude says the same thing using the term "last times" to explain why people are ridiculing during the time Jude is writing. The idea, in fact, covers both the points made in 2 Peter and the point of 2 Timothy:

(Jude 17-21) 17 As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality. 20 But you, beloved ones, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, and pray with holy spirit, 21 in order to keep yourselves in God’s love, while you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view.

The expression "last days" is also used here, in Hebrews, but the NWT chose in this place not to translate it the same way:

(Hebrews 1:1, 2) 1 Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.

The NIV is more accurate here:

  • In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
18 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

*** w14 10/1 p. 13 " When Did God’s Kingdom Begin Ruling?—Part 1 ***
In his prophecy concerning the last days, Jesus said: “Jerusalem [which represented God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) So the interruption of God’s rulership was still in effect in Jesus’ time and would continue until the last days."

The reason this doesn't make sense to all readers of Luke 21:24 is that Jesus clearly says Jerusalem WILL BE TRAMPLED on. Therefore it was future, and not even in effect yet during Jesus' time on earth. Also Luke 21:24 is referenced in Revelation 11:2,3 and it says nothing there about 7 times, only 3.5 times.

22 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

"(Daniel 12:9) Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end."

This goes to the same question that Anna just asked about the "last days." Daniel's words were sealed up until the time of the end. Revelation quotes quite a bit from Daniel, but says it's now time that the words of the scroll are opened. As you have shown before, much of Revelation is parallel to Daniel, but this is a consistent exception: It is now time to open and unseal the sealed scrolls.

(Revelation 5:1-5) . . .And I saw in the right hand of the One seated on the throne a scroll written on both sides, sealed tight with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or underneath the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
38 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

The time for Shiloh (the one who has the legal right to David's throne,Jesus Christ) to  resume rule of God's Kingdom  towards the earth would be AFTER the Gentiles Times would have ended

Actually, Jesus is to rule in the midst of his enemies, so there is no Biblical reason that the times of the Gentile nations could not go on while Jesus is king. At any rate, the time of the Gentile nations continue to go on anyway in spite of the fact that Jesus is said to rule from 1914.

40 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

God's rulership towards the earth was interrupted when the last King, Zedekiah, was dethroned and taken to Babylon.

From a Biblical viewpoint, God's rulership toward the earth has never been interrupted. Jehovah is the one who can interrupt the rule of others at his will. That was the entire point that Nebuchadnezzar needed to learn in Daniel chapter 4.  So it seems all the more disrespectful to say that Nebuchadnezzar interrupted God's rulership by dethroning Zedekiah.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
44 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

But when did men start to rove about? Thought it was after the Reformation? What about all he study groups in the 1800s?

I think the emphasis lately has been on starting this expression after 1914 especially, not so much before 1914:

*** w00 5/15 p. 11 par. 6 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***
6 In this time of the end, many faithful Christians have ‘roved about’ in the pages of God’s Word, the Bible. The result? With Jehovah’s blessing on their efforts, true knowledge has become abundant. For instance, anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand that Jesus Christ became heavenly King in the year 1914. In keeping with the apostle’s words recorded at 2 Peter 1:19-21, such anointed ones and their loyal companions are ‘paying attention to the prophetic word’ and are absolutely certain that this is the time of the end.

  • *** bhs chap. 9 p. 99 par. 13 Is the End of the World Near? *** [2015]
  • 13 Understanding the Bible. The prophet Daniel wrote about the last days. He said: “The true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12:4) God would give his people the ability to understand the Bible more clearly than ever before. Jehovah has done this especially since 1914. For example, he has taught us the importance of his name and his purpose for the earth as well as the truth about the ransom, what happens when we die, and the resurrection. We have learned that only God’s Kingdom can solve all our problems. We have also learned how to be happy and how to live in a way that pleases God. But what do God’s servants do with what they’ve learned? Another prophecy gives us the answer.—See Endnotes 21 and 25.

In 2009, 2012 and 2014 we temporarily moved it back to include Russell's group in 1870.

But I also think that we have a Scriptural answer that fits:

  • (1 Peter 1:10-12) 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search. 11 They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were ministering, not to themselves, but to you, regarding what has now been announced to you by those who declared the good news to you with holy spirit sent from heaven. Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.

Note that the NWT indicates that the literal words are more likely used in a metaphorical manner here, so that the NWT footnote in Daniel 12:4 says:

  • Or “examine it [that is, the book] thoroughly.”

So 1 Peter is likely a more exact "fulfillment" of Daniel 12:4 than it might look like, at first.

  • *** w12 8/15 p. 3 par. 2 “I Am With You” ***
  • Viewed metaphorically and in harmony with the facts of our day, the Hebrew verb here translated “rove about” conveys the idea of a careful examination.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

I’m exhausted following this topic.

I think this thread about 1914 reflects very well the negative aspects reflected in these words:

(1 Timothy 1:4) “…nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith…”

1914. Only available to intelligent people.

When I was a teenager I felt very proud with myself because I was able to explain by heart the seven times prophecy. Perhaps only a third in my congregation, or less, could explain this reasonably well.

Nowadays, I doubt if a few of the brotherhood could express intelligibly why we believe in the importance of this date. So, what about this basic principle?

  • (1 Corinthians 1:26) “…For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, …”

I’m amazed with the struggle with different technics to determine the accuracy or lack of exactitude of 1914. Even astronomic calculus with specialized software! Thanks, JWInsider! Plus a lot of historical and archeological skills.

And, by the way. The humbler and less able to explain “deep” ideas like this, the more faith I see that these brothers have. More than me.

1914. A polysemic date.

JWInsider has explained to the satiety that from its very beginning this date was conceived with other and changing meanings. Perhaps the most important change was to think that Christ’s presence started in 1874, and 1914 would mark the end of the human domination on Earth. Our present understanding is, as you all know, that Jesus started as king and his presence at that date.

1914. We need more than the Bible

But other post, recently, has put it very clear, and I fully agree:

  • (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial … so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work…”

But now, it turns out that I must learn Archeology and History to determine the exact date Jerusalem was conquered 2500 years ago!

1914. In opposition to the spirit and the letter of Jesus’s words.

The advice in the following passages is to live each day as if the Master could arrive in any moment. No trying to determine the length of a period of time, in order to calculate the prolongation of the “last days”,

  • (Matthew 24:42) “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming…”

But we officially believe Jesus really came in 1914, and from this date he is present… in fact ruling! The idea of two different kinds of arrivals (1914 as king, later as executor), this differentiation is not in the Bible. There is only ONE arrival.

 1914. It’s a date. The Christians didn’t utilize dates as a foundation of their faith

*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***

Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding.

In reality, we all know no Jesus nor Paul in writing to the Hebrews made use of the dates in the 70 weeks prophecy to proof that Jesus was the Messiah. Why should we different regarding 1914?

1914. Violates the “five fingers” process.

As I’ve expressed in other post. If we take verses on each side of the Bible we are incurring in a real danger of twisting the Scriptures. Let’s see.

  • ·        What scriptural proof is there to consider Nebuchadnezzar type of Christ?
  • ·        What scriptural proof is there to think the Nab. kingship represents God’s kingdom?
  • ·        What proof is there to think the madness of the king represents the situation with God’s kingdom?
  • ·        With what authority can we apply the rule of one day for a year in Num 14:34 or Eze 4:6 to Daniel’s prophecy?
  • ·        Could we sure the term “times” in Daniel 4 and in Lu. 21:24 apply to the same period?
    • o   What’s the basis for this?
    • o   Does not it seem to fit word for word Lu 21:24 and Rev. 11:2?
    • o   Why, then, to base all our knowledge about the last days in a mere possibility?

1914 Alternatives. First Century fulfillment?

JWInsider has pointed out the idea that Jesus was crowned in the first century. Even postulating that Revelation 12 was fully fulfilled at that time. I think that to consider that important parts of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century is going to the other extreme. It’s my humble opinion.

Yes, it’s true that Revelation mention some past happenings, well direct or indirectly.

  • (Revelation 1:5, 6) “… who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— and he made us to be a kingdom, priests…”

And mention some of the developments as if they had already happened

  • (Revelation 11:15) “…The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ…”

But we could reach to another explanation WITHOUT HANGING in 1914. This better explained in another place. Suffice for now to think that these happenings took place neither in the first century nor in 1914.

What problems arise with the first century fulfillment of Revelation?

Rev 11:15-18 links the start of the kingdom to the resurrection time. These verses are a preamble of the next chapters, including the vision of chapter 12.

  • (Revelation 11:15, 18) “…you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king …and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones…”
  • (Revelation 12:10-17) “…Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom …So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, ...”

There are remaining ones because some of them are on heaven while other are still enduring on earth. So, the resurrection has already begun in Rev. 12 time

But the resurrection didn’t happen in the first century:

  • (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) “…we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death …that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first…”

 

How many times was David crowned?

·        (2 Samuel 2:4) “…Then the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David as king over the house of Judah…

·        (2 Samuel 5:3) “…So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them in Hebron before Jehovah. Then they anointed David as king over Israel.”

In the same way, why could not be possible to view Jesus crowned in the first century, when he went to heaven, as many verses seems to probe and as JWInsider has aptly showed us?

And, at the same time, why could not be possible to expect a new crowning ceremony in the future, in the Revelation time?

I find it possible, unlike JWInsider opinion, because I think he (JWI) has mentioned the riding of the horsemen of Revelation 6 starts with the resurrection of Christ in 33, and the wars, pests and famine are the habitual conditions from then. But this is hard to me to believe. Why?

Because the “second” coronation (Rev.6) is marked with victories, conquers (Rev.6:2). But what happened from the end of first century until recent times? The apostasy, the dark ages… the contrary to victory.

I’ve already presented my view, error prone obviously, that the colored horses could mean victories of the King against enemies, not society conditions.

And, finally, in this way, we have that it’s perfectly possible the modern time fulfillment of Revelation (above all chapter 12), the coronation of Jesus in 33 (mainly, but not only over his congregation ) and modern times coronation when Jehovah order Him: “conquer your enemies”

Please, please, please… it isn’t necessary 1914 at all! What if the coronation, most of the Revelation fulfillment is still future? Well, this is theme for other day…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

 "Many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant".

Thanks JWI and ComfortMYPeople for this exchange. This is also roving about.

 However, as Archive@L had said earlier quoting 1 Cor 13:12  "at present I know partially but then I shall know accurately" .  Most Bible students acknowledge that understanding of any prophecy is confirmed only after its fulfiilment. But JWI kindly reminded us of the scripture in 1 Peter 1:10-12 about making a diligent inquiry and a careful search and continuing our investigation. ( So we must not get tired of the rumble and tumble. We seniors are pretty tough! Smile! Notice the energy of JWI and how well he writes?  If you miss me, though, I might be getting a beauty sleep.)

The faithful slave has just adjusted something surrounding when the anointed came out of Babylon the Great. There will also be other adjustments.   

Comfort, that was well set out and a good synopsis.                 

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,670
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Apolos2000
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.